WCW Region, Baltimore Region, Second Round: (7) Mitsuharu Misawa vs. (10) Verne Gagne

[Tastycles]

This is a Second round match in the WCW Region, Baltimore Subregion. It is a standard one on one match. It will be held at the 1st Mariner Arena, Baltimore, Maryland.

#7. Mitsuharu Misawa

Vs.

#10. Verne Gagne

​

This match takes place one week following the first round.

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[The Gribbler]

I really dont know which way to swing here, I have passing knowledge of both of these men, and after a quick wiki can see that they both had very successful careers.

Overall from what I have read and heard of both of these men Misawa was more adaptable and Gagne was less willing to change with the times.

That being all I know I am ignorantly casting my vote for Misawa.

 

[Bernkastel]

While I'm sure Gelgarin will be in here momentarily to say how much Misawa sucks, and how he doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Gagne, I'm still voting for the former.

Misawa may or may not have been as big of a star as Verne Gagne, but he was AJPW's biggest star for years and even created his own promotion which has been kept alive for over ten years. He drew thousands of fans, and influenced many of Japan's superstars that are still around today.

Plus people are arguing that Dusty Rhodes should go over Giant Baba, so is it any less that Misawa should go over Gagne?

 

[pumpkinking8987]

This is one of the toughest decisions so far in the tourney for me.

I was leaning towards Verne in the beginning because the Guy is a survivor, what is he like 200 years old. Not only was he one of the best but he has trainned some of the best as well like Henning, Flair, Rhodes to name a few.

However, I have been watching some of Misawa's matches on youtube and he is great in the ring. In particular his triple crown championship match against Toshiaki Kawada in 93. I am kinda stumpped right now. I dont know who to go with, I'm thinking i will wait a day and read some posts in hopes of being persuaded one way or the other.

 

[Peoples_Champ]

Talk about a hard road for Misawa, first a battle with his hated rival Kobashi, now fighting a legend in Verne Gagne and next will be a fight to the death against Andre. Horrible path for Misawa.

I'll be voting for Misawa in this round, but I don't want to take anything away from Verne. He's truly legendary and the WCW ring plays into his advantage. But Misawa is just better than Verne in so many ways, it's hard to discount skills over experience.

Misawa in a fantastic match, 23 minutes.

 

[Larry]

For those unfamiliar with Mitsuharu Misawa let me put it to you like this; Misawa in Japan is like Godzilla in Japan, Misawa in Japan is like Hogan during his era. If you want to talk about STATUS, it ends at the top here with Mitsuharu Misawa. People can bring up Antonio Inoki and Giant Baba, but they were from a different time much like how Superstar Billy Graham and Harley Race came before Hogan. Just go look him up on Wikipedia, the facts speak for themselves. This guy is regarded around the world as one of the best professional wrestlers of all-time. If you're not familiar with the Triple Crown look into that, he's a 5-time triple crown winner. He's beat the best in the world, and solidified himself as not just a legend in Japan, but a legend around the world.

I've never been a Gagne fan. The fact that a Gagne was always at the top of a company owned by himself never sat well with me. Add to that booking himself as champion for 7 almost 8 years on top of 9 or 10 reigns and his legacy stands as even more illegitimate. You can acknowledge the fact that prior to that he was a major player for the NWA, and that's true. But, the bulk of his champion status and legend came at his will in his own promotion which is rather repugnant if you ask me. He's a paper Tiger going against a dragon, and we all know what happens when fire meets paper, it gets burnt up.

 

[Tastycles]

Misawa is popular in Japan, admittedly, but even there he has never been as popular as Gagne was in the USA, particularly in the northern states. This was because he was one of the first performers to be on television on a regular basis, and they even invented the concept of the second tier title to capitalise on his popularity. Politics alone kept him out of the NWA title hunt, but the popularity before this and the setting up of AWA should show that he was more than worthy.

I don't doubt Misawa's ability in the ring, but I think Gagne probably achieved more in his home country than Misawa did in his, and this match is being held in the US. As such, I think this one has to go to Gagne.

 

[Gelgarin]

Every. Fucking. Year.

Mitsuharu Misawa being drawn against a massively superior old school legend and coasting through on account in his publicised death and me having a fuck-ton of work to deal with is becoming something of a tournament tradition. Sorry guys, I was legitimatly going to give this match the "Why Lou Thesz goes over Sting" treatment, but Gelgarin simply does not have the time.

That being said, I reckon there are just enough hours in the day for me to call out a handful of the ******ed populace on their misguided voting.

While I'm sure Gelgarin will be in here momentarily to say how much Misawa sucks, and how he doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Gagne, I'm still voting for the former.

Misawa may or may not have been as big of a star as Verne Gagne, but he was AJPW's biggest star for years and even created his own promotion which has been kept alive for over ten years. He drew thousands of fans, and influenced many of Japan's superstars that are still around today.

Plus people are arguing that Dusty Rhodes should go over Giant Baba, so is it any less that Misawa should go over Gagne?

So what you are saying is that people are voting like fucking idiots, therefore you will also vote like a fucking idiot. I get wanting to fit in, but that's ridiculous. As for your "arguments", none of them would hold a single drop of water if you knew the slightest thing about Verne Gagne.

You've already conceded that Gagne was the bigger star than Misawa; one point to Gagne.

Misawa created his own promotion... this one legitimately give me a chuckle. Misawa created an insignificant indy federation (even the hardcore puro fans on the board will concede Noah's insignificance) because he and his contemporaries didn't want to work for a woman. Noah has existed for ten years and achieved nothing outside of supporting a bunch of Japanese crime lords.

Still, founding your own promotion is no mean feet, and I'd be happy to take it under consideration but for the fact that Verne Gange did the exact same thing. AWA? Second most successful wrestling promotion in American history? Birthplace of technical wrestling, television stars, Hulk Hogan and so much more of what you call wrestling today? Ringing any bells?
Gagne's promotion lasted three time's longer than Misawa's and achieved levels of relevancy that the Japanese icon can only dream of. Voting for Misawa because of his prowess as a promoter is laughable.

He draw thousands of fans... that's nice; Gagne drew more. What is your argument again?

He was AJPW's top star? Gagne was AWA's top star.

He influenced many Japanese stars... to be frank he really didn't, his style differed very little from other stars of the same era; but even if I accept your claims as true, Gagne influenced not only the US, but the entire wrestling world.

You know technical wrestling, that thing that everyone on the internet loves? Yeah; that's prevalent in the United States these days because of the existence of Verne Gagne. Let me paint the picture; war ravages the world and the US has finally decided to openly involve itself. Many of the top wrestlers of the era have been called up. Lou Thesz is enlisted and so are countless other top stars. Suddenly the wrestling industry doesn't have enough legitimate wrestlers to sustain itself.

"Hay" says Toots Mondt, "I reckon if we just take an impressive power-lifter who can't wrestle, we can push him as a top star."

It works; the east coast suddenly becomes dominated by power guys and technical wrestling starts to die. Legit wrestlers cost more and exerted a higher degree of creative control, so many promoters lost interest in booking them.

"Fuck that shit," says Verne Gagne, "I'm going to train me a new generation of wrestlers skilled in technical wrestling and showmanship".

He trains Ric Flair, the Andersons', Ricky Steamboat, Curt Henning, Bob Backlund and close to a hundred other stars. His style is a huge success, and AWA thrives until richer neighbours lure away their entire roster. However, even after AWA closes its doors, Gagne's legacy lives on. Every time two stars go out there and put on a "wrestling clinic" Verne Gagne is the man that smarks ought to be down on their knees thanking.

So yeah; why are you voting for Misawa again? I get that you're a touch on the Otaku side Ech, but surely you accept that voting for the Asian guy simply because he's Asian puts you down there with the people who go "What the fuck is a Kobashi, I'ma go vote Kane".

Talk about a hard road for Misawa, first a battle with his hated rival Kobashi, now fighting a legend in Verne Gagne and next will be a fight to the death against Andre. Horrible path for Misawa.

I'll be voting for Misawa in this round, but I don't want to take anything away from Verne. He's truly legendary and the WCW ring plays into his advantage. But Misawa is just better than Verne in so many ways, it's hard to discount skills over experience.

Misawa in a fantastic match, 23 minutes.

Perhaps you would like to name some of those ways. £20 on that never happening.

I've never been a Gagne fan. The fact that a Gagne was always at the top of a company owned by himself never sat well with me.

The irony of this coming from a Misawa supporter is laughable. Comparing Misawa to Hogan is legitimate in one respect; they both earned the nickname of Mr Creative Control. If you think Misawa wasn't handling his own booking for the majority of his tenure at the top then you're sadly deluded as to the reality of the Japanese wrestling scene.

And on the topic of Gagne; the "he booked himself to the top" accusation is the primary reason I selected him as my primary candidate to back this tournament. It's such a fucking stupid observation, yet people will not stop parroting it.

Verne Gagne was a fucking enormous star long before he founded AWA. During the 1950's Verne Gagne was probably the most popular wrestler in the world. He was pro wrestling's first big television star, and in terms of name recognition Lou Thesz was the only man who could match him. Gagne was the top star of wrestling's golden age; of course he stayed on top after founding AWA. To not do so would render him a fucking idiot.

When Gagne was on top of the industry wrestling experienced one of its biggest ever booms and when Gagne was on top of the AWA the promotion experienced its greatest successes.

Let's compare that to Misawa's tenure on top shall we? Misawa's legacy (when considered by rational people) will largely go down as being a man unable to live up to the legacy of his predecessors. He took over as a top star during a Japanese wrestling boom. During his tenure on top of AJPW that promotion lost its prime time slot on television. During his tenure on top of NOAH the "Power Hour" was cancelled altogether.

Gagne presided over a boom; Misawa shepherded over a wrestling recession. It's really not hard to work out who should leave the greater legacy.

He's a paper Tiger going against a dragon, and we all know what happens when fire meets paper, it gets burnt up.

You're an idiot.

So yeah; you should all fucking well vote for Verne Gagne. Do it because its the right thing to do. Do it because somebody who isn't an ignorant fuckwit is telling you to. Do it because you're still pissed off about Pearl Harbour.

I don't care why, but for once, vote for the better fucking wrestler.

Vote Gagne.

 

[Davi323]

Verne Gagne, for one simple reason. Should Gagne advance to the next round, he is a far more known commodity than Misawa is to me. It's easier for me to judge Gagne VS ___ than it is for me to vote Misawa VS ___, because I don't know jack shit about Misawa, and I do know a little about Verne Gagne. I don't know who the better wrestler is, nor am I going to make the case here. But, since this is a WCW arena, even if it's not Verne's home turf, it would be more American wrestling style than Japanese, and since Verne helped shape that American wrestling style into what it is, he gets my vote.





also, because Gelgarin told us to.

 

[The Brain]

Let's compare that to Misawa's tenure on top shall we? Misawa's legacy (when considered by rational people) will largely go down as being a man unable to live up to the legacy of his predecessors. He took over as a top star during a Japanese wrestling boom. During his tenure on top of AJPW that promotion lost its prime time slot on television. During his tenure on top of NOAH the "Power Hour" was cancelled altogether.

I was thinking about voting Misawa but I wasn't sure. I remember reading in some magazines throughout the 2000s that Misawa was the top guy in Japan. Then I remembered that I wasn't reading nearly as much about Japanesse wrestling in the 2000s as in the 90s in those same magazines. I do remember reading how wrestling in Japan took a huge hit in popularity after Giant Baba died and I belive that's when Misawa started to take over. Gagne was on top of the AWA when it was running almost equal to the NWA. The legacy he left on this business with all the guys he trained is unmatched. After giving it some thought my vote goes to Gagne.