Vince McMahon

[It's...Baylariat!]

If I can be serious for a minute


I don't think this thread has been made. And if it has a similar title, then it's not about the PG rating and bullshit of the sort.

I recently purchased the McMahon DVD and watched it. I'll tell you something, based on the testimony given by his workers, this guy is one of the most feared bosses in any profession. But one tidbit I took out of the whole DVD was when he purchased WCW. Many of the wrestlers and colleagues said that Vince thrives on competition and when there's no competition, the product seems to suffer. This was made back in 2006, and it couldn't be truer now. Without competition, the WWE has steadily decreased in ratings.

My question is this...is the reason for Vince's lull due to the lack of competition he has? Or is it because he's burnt out with his job?

Thoughts and comments are welcome. DO NOT SPAM!

 

[Razor]

A entertainment company, in order to keep their fan base, needs to keep us more entertained than their closest competitor keeps us entertained. That makes sense. Only thing is, Vince doesn't have to do much to keep us more entertained than TNA does. So why spend all that extra money and time developing storylines and huge storyline events (see anything Austin has ever done ever) when he can waste our time with Orton and keep us watching?

I mean, where else are we going to go to watch wrestling if we swear off WWE? TNA? Yeah, right. WWE 24/7? Oh, wait. Those fancy DVDs we...bought...from...Vince? Damn.

I never really knew why Teddy Roosevelt hated monopolies so much. Now I do.

 

[SavageTaker]

I think one of the reasons why people think the reason for Vince's lull due to the lack of competition he has and because of lack of competition he can basically do whatever he wants on his show. He has monopolized the wrestling industry and he knows that no matter what he does the fans will continue watching his shows. Not many people know about TNA so they can't go watch that until they find out that another wrestling show is on that doesn't have anything to do with the WWE at all. So, in order for pro-wrestling fans to fulfill their want to watch a pro-wrestling show they'll just keep watching the WWE since there isn't any other pro-wrestling show that they know about.

Now I am not one of the people who go around whining and complaining about the WWE, the PG Rating, or anything else but I think that the reason I stated is why the fans reason for Vince's lull.

 

[finneycom1]

100% is due to not having competition. Think back to the Monday Night Wars. What makes that era so unique, is that no matter which show you tuned into, whether it be WWE or WCW, you were going to be entertained. I witnessed so many "non-wrestling fans" become fans in the matter of a week back in those days.

Recently, I have witnessed "non-wrestling fans" tune into WWE and say things like, "This is what they are doing now? That's not very entertaining, man. Why do you watch this stuff?" Then they tune into TNA and they watch maybe a segment or two, then switch the channel.

Competition is definitely hurting the business. I, like the other two posts, are not one to go around whining about wrestling, either. But, I do judge alot of what wrestling is today, by the reactions of non-wrestling fans. They do not watch regularly and give a pretty good gauge on what is happening in what they see.

 

[demon316]

Lack of Competition because quite frankly there is none. How many people follow TNA? How many people buy TNA ppv's? Hell.. how many people even know TNA exists? WWE has become the center of all wrestling because there's no other promotion out there that can match up. After the downfall of WCW & ECW there has been no real threat to WWE's business.

And this is the problem. Business thrives on competition. That's how the attitude era came about. WCW was really taking it Vince in every way imagineable and Vince had to be as creative as possible to overcome that and he did. But now what is there? It's so sad that as bad as ECW is I'd still watch it over TNA. I might even watch Superstars over TNA in they gave it in my area. The lack of competition has made Vince lazy. He doesn't seem to mind boring us with the same ole matches over and over again because we keep tuning in so I don't blame him for not doing more to excite us..he doesn't have to.

Vince needs real competition...not more competition...but real competition!

 

[Paradox100]

Yea, No Matter how bad WWE gets, TNA is twice as worse. ROH? Well, barely anyone has HDnet. vince monopolized Professional Wrestling, if you want a change, try finding local indy promotions on tv. (I.E. Fog City Wrestling for us bay area locals)

But yes, competition is indeed good. Remember 1999? 2000? 2001? Until early '01, WCW and ECW gave an alternative. Which made Vinnie Mac work twice as hard, for the ratings, and for the money. I really wish TNA got more popular, so WWE would have to work hard again to make sure they had fans.

 

[NYSandman]

Yea, No Matter how bad WWE gets, TNA is twice as worse. ROH? Well, barely anyone has HDnet. vince monopolized Professional Wrestling, if you want a change, try finding local indy promotions on tv. (I.E. Fog City Wrestling for us bay area locals)

But yes, competition is indeed good. Remember 1999? 2000? 2001? Until early '01, WCW and ECW gave an alternative. Which made Vinnie Mac work twice as hard, for the ratings, and for the money. I really wish TNA got more popular, so WWE would have to work hard again to make sure they had fans.

Actually, I don't find TNA too bad. Yeah, they have older guys, and, yeah, the don't have WWE's budget, but I think they do okay with what they have.

Certainly not having competition hurts. It forces a mindset on the company that it doesn't really have to try that hard. If people want to watch wrestling, they'll watch WWE. There's nothing else around.

Here's where this is bad. People like us who have been watching wrestling for years will continue to do so. But, we won't be around forever. Nothing bad will happen to WWE during Vince's lifetime, because there are enough current fans out there to keep it going.

Let's face it. We bitch and moan, but we watch. At some point, though, you need to replenish the fan base and make NEW fans. Young children are a demographic WWE needs, because they are the fans of the future. If the product stays stale, there will be no incentive for youngsters to start watching.

And, chances are that even if the product gets better, they won't give it a second chance.

WWE needs to think about the future. The Hulkamaniacs and Warriors are dwindling. Got to reel 'em in young!

 

[drondog]

I think Vince has got lazy and thinks the fans are stupid? Look at last night, if he really sold Raw, it would've been all over the news and on the front of the NY TIMES. He shoves his son in law into every main event and you can take the top 5 guys and they've been in every main even since Rock, Angle, Austin left! It is bullshit and getting to be a pain in the rear. It would be great to see new stories, new feauds but we won't. HHH will always be the man,or fighting to be the man. TNA is doing better than ECW and I'll guarandamntee will be better than Smackdown in 6 months. At least its not so predictable. You can bet your gonna see Show,Miz and Cena fight next week or at Bash. HHH and Orton again at Bash after Legacy interfere and Raw and it'll be the same crap as always, and I'm so curious to see how Vince is going to find enough talent and entertainment to fill a full 2 hours show instead of an hour and fifteen minutes!

 

[supersayian]

well why the product is stale Vince has no competition. without that nothing will change folks mark my words. when TNA gets ahead of Smackdown if they do more like it then yeah Vince might have to start worry a little bit. but the problem is TNA has all or most former wwe stars. that does not help your product any. if they had young guys and only young then maybe it would be at least entertainment again. Vince needs to watch this same shit on RAW though as it will come back to bite him in the ass sonner rather then later. Same guys on top makes for old yesterday news. Vince needs to at the very least make us want to watch RAW.as i think Smackdown has RAW beat in every way right now. wrestlers, announcers, storylines, young guys and newer fresh feuds.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

A entertainment company, in order to keep their fan base, needs to keep us more entertained than their closest competitor keeps us entertained. That makes sense. Only thing is, Vince doesn't have to do much to keep us more entertained than TNA does. So why spend all that extra money and time developing storylines and huge storyline events (see anything Austin has ever done ever) when he can waste our time with Orton and keep us watching?

I mean, where else are we going to go to watch wrestling if we swear off WWE? TNA? Yeah, right. WWE 24/7? Oh, wait. Those fancy DVDs we...bought...from...Vince? Damn.

I never really knew why Teddy Roosevelt hated monopolies so much. Now I do.

"Where else are we going to go to watch wrestling??" Who says one has to continue watching wrestling? I think the answer to that question in all likelihood is ... "we swear off wrestling and become entertained with something other than pro wrestling."

I think Vince's real competition today is people who are doing just that. People who have gotten so fed up with his product, that they simply turn his product off and go elsewhere. So IF Vince doesn't consider TNA competition (which he doesn't, and nor should he really at this stage), and IF he doesn't consider UFC competition (which I think is highly debatable ... the bottom line in determining the answer to that is "has UFC taken WWE viewers away from Vince or not?" I think it is a resounding "yes", personally) ... then who he should consider his "competition" is his very own fans. The "competition" to him should be trying to maintain his fanbase who is rapidly becoming bored and losing interest with the product (thanks to him) and are simply turning off wrestling altogether.

Nobody should be arrogant enough to assume that all wrestling fans are going to force themselves to stay around, simply because there is no other real alternative for them other than WWE. Although, if I was a betting man, Vince certainly thinks that is the case. I know if I was in his position, I certainly would rather not play games with my audience and test that theory out by keeping my product in Cruise Control, like Vince has essentially done.

I will give Vince kudos on the Donald Trump storyline. Best swerve he could have possibly done to get viewer interest back up, though. I will actually probably tune in next week for Raw because of that.

 

[Johnny_B.Lv]

Vince is completely out of touch with today's wrestling product, the way it should be !!! He needs to step down, since his ideas make the product suffer and no one has the balls to tell him, not even his own children !!!

Donald Trump ain't gonna get you an over 5.0 rating !!! Come on !!!
He should listen to other people's ideas instead of using stale and pointless feuds !!!

 

[RH23]

Without major competition Vince has really no need to worry. Without WWE, there is no mainstream alternative, except for TNA. When WCW was HUGE, Vince realized that they need better storylines and an overall change in their product in order to stay in business. After they bought WCW and later on ECW, they were the only wrestling company that you could watch on t.v. and since then no company has come close to WWE. If TNA ever gets big than maybe Vince will work harder.

 

[Razor]

"Where else are we going to go to watch wrestling??" Who says one has to continue watching wrestling? I think the answer to that question in all likelihood is ... "we swear off wrestling and become entertained with something other than pro wrestling."

I think Vince's real competition today is people who are doing just that. People who have gotten so fed up with his product, that they simply turn his product off and go elsewhere. So IF Vince doesn't consider TNA competition (which he doesn't, and nor should he really at this stage), and IF he doesn't consider UFC competition (which I think is highly debatable ... the bottom line in determining the answer to that is "has UFC taken WWE viewers away from Vince or not?" I think it is a resounding "yes", personally) ... then who he should consider his "competition" is his very own fans. The "competition" to him should be trying to maintain his fanbase who is rapidly becoming bored and losing interest with the product (thanks to him) and are simply turning off wrestling altogether.

Nobody should be arrogant enough to assume that all wrestling fans are going to force themselves to stay around, simply because there is no other real alternative for them other than WWE. Although, if I was a betting man, Vince certainly thinks that is the case. I know if I was in his position, I certainly would rather not play games with my audience and test that theory out by keeping my product in Cruise Control, like Vince has essentially done.

I will give Vince kudos on the Donald Trump storyline. Best swerve he could have possibly done to get viewer interest back up, though. I will actually probably tune in next week for Raw because of that.

Eh, fair point. There are viewers who say "Fuck you Vince, I don't like what I'm seeing. I'm going elsewhere." and look up UFC, plays, books, whatever.

I was coming from someone such as myself, who views not watching wrestling as a foreign idea. I'm what some would call the "hooked viewer," the dude who has started watching and can't stop. I came in 4 or so years ago, and have stuck through. I caught up on what happened before, and I'm enjoying myself. Really am. I guess I'm Vince's guinea pig that he tests with, to go along with your post.

But honestly, where is the outrage at the product people keep claiming? I see it everywhere, "Vince has lost touch! He's losing viewers!" From where I'm standing, he's still raking in millions. Raw hasn't fallen in ratings that hard over the past years, except for when Orton shows his face as champion. I just don't understand.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Eh, fair point. There are viewers who say "Fuck you Vince, I don't like what I'm seeing. I'm going elsewhere." and look up UFC, plays, books, whatever.

I was coming from someone such as myself, who views not watching wrestling as a foreign idea. I'm what some would call the "hooked viewer," the dude who has started watching and can't stop. I came in 4 or so years ago, and have stuck through. I caught up on what happened before, and I'm enjoying myself. Really am. I guess I'm Vince's guinea pig that he tests with, to go along with your post.

But honestly, where is the outrage at the product people keep claiming? I see it everywhere, "Vince has lost touch! He's losing viewers!" From where I'm standing, he's still raking in millions. Raw hasn't fallen in ratings that hard over the past years, except for when Orton shows his face as champion. I just don't understand.

Well, I don't think even the "hooked viewer" necessarily stays the "hooked viewer" for eternity. Take me, for example. Hell, I've watched wrestling religiously since 1990. Almost 20 years! Purchased virtually every single PPV up through 2006. I was the definition of the hooked viewer.

However, something happened, in which I began losing interest around 2003. I still purchased all the PPV's, but I just wasn't passionate about wrestling as I once was. Then, from late 2006 on to today, things just got worst with me. I stopped purchasing PPV's in 2006 and haven't purchased any PPV's since then. Not even Wrestlemania.

Then, it got even worst for me where I stopped watching after Adamle became GM. I actually initially liked the idea of Adamle as GM because I thought they were going to make him the "bumbling idiot in charge", which would have led to some great TV, yet they disappointed me once again, and tried to make him a serious GM. At that point, I turned the TV off of all WWE for about 4 or 5 months. Then, I started up again.

However, this time, me turning off the product was gradual. I never did watch Superstars. That show is all wrestling, and nothing but wrestling, which doesn't interest me. I want wrestling mixed with Quality Storylines and Intriguing characters.

But then from there, ECW was turned off.
Then, Smackdown got turned off altogether a couple weeks later.
And finally, Raw got turned off.

I basically follow the business on the newsboards each day and make it a point to discuss it on the forums each day. But I am basically hanging by a thread here. But, I will make it a point to tune in to Raw this Monday to see what they do with Trump.

I guess my point is that even people who are "hooked" shouldn't be taken for granted, or assumed that the "hooked" crowd is going to stay "hooked" forever.

 

[z99zazn]

I definitely don't think his lull has to do with him being burnt out on the job. I don't think this guy will ever have that. But it probably has to with him having no competition. That is the problem I think a lot of people see with the current WWE product. For example, when Christian came back, he wasn't acknowledged as a former World Champion. So he doesn't view TNA as a high calibur company. If he really thought that TNA was a threat, he would talk up signing a former world champ, and would probably have stuck Christian on Raw or SD, instead of giving him no exposure on ECW. Razorback, I'm a lot like you in the way that I'm a fan. When I was younger, I would go through small time periods where I was really into WWE. But I would always grow out of them. I hadn't watched WWE in years, but still somewhat knew most of the big names and most of the mid card too. But in December, I thought it would be fun to play a wrestling video game so i started playing Smackdown vs Raw 2007, and it gauged my interest in WWE again. So I turned on Raw, I don't remember what date the Raw was, but it was the Raw in which Rhodes and DiBiase beat down Manu and Sim to basically kick them out of The Legacy. From there, I started watching it every Monday, some Tuesdays, and some Fridays. I've ordered a few PPVs, so I'm a pretty comitted fan to the WWE. Yeah, I missed a lot of time, but during this day in age, now is the best time to be a fan. I caught up with basically everything I've ever missed with wikipedia and youtube. So I am a lot more knowledgeable than the average fan that has been watching for only 6 months. But what I want more than anything is for TNA to really take off. Granted, it will probably not happen with the product that the put out, it would be huge to WWE. It would make WWE FINALLY have to compete with another company. They would have to step up, because they finally would have competition. Yeah, I'm not gonna bitch about how bad the WWE is now compared to the past, because its not bad. Its different, but different doesn't mean bad. But there is a lot of room to improve, and we won't see any improvement until there is direct competition, not just a shit company like TNA trying to compete with WWE's C show. But who knows, maybe they can start wising up, and eventually give Vince some good competition, but I really doubt it. He'll get somebody to go head to head with him eventually, but I highly doubt that'll be Dixie and Jeff.

 

[bulldog76]

I wonder if Vince is in over his head. Three shows. Three rosters. At least 14 PPVs. World tours. When Vince was on top of his game, he was worried about survival. XFL, production studios, world tours..., they weren't huge priorities. I really wonder if Vince should just step back and delegate more of the work. Let more agents and stars have say. Don't be quick to override Steph, Shane or HHH when these 3 are the future of your business. Let them succeed or fail.

As a Dallas Cowboys fan, I hear all of the time about Jerry Jones. I hear all day about what Jerry is doing with this or that. He is involved in every aspect of the game with the exception of actually calling plays during the games. Many, myself included, feel Jerry should take a major step back and focus on signing checks and keeping the team profitable; not trying to put together a winning team or coach it. I could go into deeper detail but this is not a football forum or thread.

When I see/read about Vince, he seems like he is doing so much; too much. He is over 60 years old. Step back, let others help, let others learn possible future roles, and enjoy what he has accomplished in his life. Enjoy what he has.

Lord Sidious and I have gone around several times. But I agree with him 100% on this one. "Hooked" fans can't be taken for granted. I've been watch for the most part since 1984. Took about a year or two hiatus in the mid-90's. Caught on with the nWo. And have taken small breaks since (like a month or two at most). Last Monday was the first RAW I watched for more than 8 minutes since MVP called out Orton his first night on RAW and I missed the first hour; not by accident either. (I did watch the final minutes of RAW to see what was happening with the title the night after Extrme Rules.) It wasn't great but it did buy one more week out of me. If it screws, I will go back to reading results and watching SmackDown. Anyone can be turned off if you continually fail to deliver.