Unforgotten Gimmicks

[a7xoff]

Sorry ahead of time if there is a thread like this already, but anyway. Something has been bugging me lately with certain guys in the WWE. They may have a new gimmick, but it almost seems that when I think of them I only think of their old gimmicks. Snitsky is a prime example of someone who now has a monster gimmick, when a while back he was killing babies, and having foot fettishes. Idk, but to me he still seems like more of a freak then a monster even though his new gimmick is trying desperatly to change that. However for some guys like Kevin Thorn I don't think of his older gimmicks. I don't know why, but for some guys, changing their gimmick really just does not seem to work, while for others like Helms aka. The Hurricane it does work very well. If someone like Carlito ever changed his gimmick I'd always think of him as the guy that went around spitting in people's faces.

So the debate is... Am I just crazy for thinking this way about some of these guys, or do some of the older gimmicks that superstars had haunt them still?

 

[a7xoff]

Well duh it's not real. The point I'm trying to get across is that whenever I see someone like say Snitsky all I can think of is their past gimmick as opposed to his supposive monster gimmick now. I know they are constantly changing things, but what I mean is that some guys people don't think of as their old gimmicks anymore. The only time I think of The Hurricane now is his match against the Rock, and even with that I think Gregory Helms before that. When I think Snitsky I think of him and Goldust doin some weird stuff backstage.

 

[Shadowmancer]

It can haunt them. Look at Big Daddy V. He hasn't recovered from failing as Mabel when he won the King of the Ring Tournament. He then proceeds to get inducted into the Ministry and Viscera came about but then he goes and starts to wear pyjamas to the Ring. too hard to take seriously. Now with Big Daddy V, this is a recycled gimmick, name and hand symbol. Gimmick from One Man Gang, Name from OMG's original name in the Territories, Big Daddy Ritter. Despite what Matt Striker says in his blog. And if you haven't got it by now the hand symbol for the V is the same one as this.

The Vulcan handsign. Originality here. But He will still be remembered as part of M.O.M. for his entire career.

 

[Shep17]

The Ringmaster (Stone Cold) did OK for himself didn't he? As did Isaac Yankem (Kane), OZ (Kevin Nash), Chainsaw Charlie (Terry Funk), Jean Paul LeVesque (HHH), Blue Blazer (Owen Hart), The Prototype (John Cena).

I get where you are going, but the reality is that it comes down to the individual performers ability to suspend your belief, and believe that he is the charecter that he is portraying. It takes creative booking and a competent antagonist to get us the fan to believe the charecter, no matter who it is.

The best example of this is when the most popular wrestler of his era, and a top 5 wrestler at the time was booked into a degrading joke of a charecter. You may be too young to know Dusty Rhodes from his peak during the 80's, but he was an ICON as Dusty Rhodes, the son of a Plumber, everbody's everyday man. When he came to work for WWF in the late 80's, Vince attempted to make a mockery of Dusty by putting him in Polka Dots, and parading him around as a clown. It would have been so easy for the fans to not accept this charecter, and the charecter could have done what Vince wanted to do, embarass the Dream. But it was Dusty's charisma and intellegence that made people believe he was no longer the "American Dream" Dusty Rhodes, he was "the Common Man", and made people believe in the charecter.

My point is, that just like the examples above, it is the charisma of the entertainer, and the freedom of the booker that can transform a charecter and make you forget all about all of the ill-fated attempts to get over. Let's face it, why did "Mean Mark Callous" never make it? He was the prototypical Bad @$$, but had no freedom to get over in WCW. Then he is turned into a comic book hero that should have never been accepted by smart or mark. But the person and the booking made everyone forget "Mean Mark", and now the Undertaker will go down as one of the top 10 charecters of all time.

 

[grunks]

Terry Taylor comes to mind for me. He could never get out of The Red Rooster gimmick shadow. He was an accomplished performer before he ever got to WWF in the 80's early 90's and I remember all of the wrestling mags at the time were all predicting huge things for him. He tried a comeback as "Terrific" Terry Taylor later in the WWF but all the fans just couldn't let go of his shitty rooster image.

 

[Shua]

As has been said, it's all about suspending your belief. Sure, you may still think of Snitsky as a "baby killer" or Big Daddy V as Viscera/Mable......but sometimes a character can grow stale, and a change is neccesary. Sometimes the changes are small (such is the case with Goldust's "turrets", or even Kane's gradual unmasking), whereas some are much larger (Ringmaster to Austin, Hurricane to Gregory Helms, etc). There was just no place left to go with the character, so changes were made. I didn't see that many people make a fuss when King Booker was created (besides the fact that it was a shitty gimmick).

The point is, in wrestling....or "sports entertainment" the suspension of belief is basically required.

 

[NYSandman]

The Ringmaster (Stone Cold) did OK for himself didn't he? As did Isaac Yankem (Kane), OZ (Kevin Nash), Chainsaw Charlie (Terry Funk), Jean Paul LeVesque (HHH), Blue Blazer (Owen Hart), The Prototype (John Cena).

I get where you are going, but the reality is that it comes down to the individual performers ability to suspend your belief, and believe that he is the charecter that he is portraying. It takes creative booking and a competent antagonist to get us the fan to believe the charecter, no matter who it is.

The best example of this is when the most popular wrestler of his era, and a top 5 wrestler at the time was booked into a degrading joke of a charecter. You may be too young to know Dusty Rhodes from his peak during the 80's, but he was an ICON as Dusty Rhodes, the son of a Plumber, everbody's everyday man. When he came to work for WWF in the late 80's, Vince attempted to make a mockery of Dusty by putting him in Polka Dots, and parading him around as a clown. It would have been so easy for the fans to not accept this charecter, and the charecter could have done what Vince wanted to do, embarass the Dream. But it was Dusty's charisma and intellegence that made people believe he was no longer the "American Dream" Dusty Rhodes, he was "the Common Man", and made people believe in the charecter.

My point is, that just like the examples above, it is the charisma of the entertainer, and the freedom of the booker that can transform a charecter and make you forget all about all of the ill-fated attempts to get over. Let's face it, why did "Mean Mark Callous" never make it? He was the prototypical Bad @$$, but had no freedom to get over in WCW. Then he is turned into a comic book hero that should have never been accepted by smart or mark. But the person and the booking made everyone forget "Mean Mark", and now the Undertaker will go down as one of the top 10 charecters of all time.

Agreed. But, I think in order to get the fans to forget your old gimmick, your new one has to be truly great.

The only reason no one remembers "Ringmaster" is because Stone Cold killed him THOROUGHLY!

Same with the Rock. Remember when he was a kiss ass lovable babyface named Rocky Miavia? Nah, me neither.

Oz is forgettable only because Kevin Nash's character exploded in the NWO.

No one remembers Mean Mark, because after 'Taker there's no comparison.

However, I do remember Mabel, Vicera, etc, because the Big Daddy V character SUCKS! If V suddenly started selling tickets by the hundreds, in a few years no one would remember his earlier ventures.

If the wrestler HIMSELF isn't that great, no change in character will make people forget how much he sucked, because he STILL sucks.

However, a great wrestler who is saddled with a shit gimmick CAN recover if he finds a gimmick that lets his mic/wrestling talents shine.

 

[phantom_63]

Just to throw this out there. Since everyone talks about the Undertaker as THE example. Remember that his character has gone through MANY changes. The plain old undertaker, the biker, the ministry leader, etc... It shows that a great talent can overcome bad gimmicks.

 

[supremegmn86]

Who could forget chuck Palumbo? Gay wrestler and now he's a biker bad ass...o please gimme a break....personally I liked Billy and Chuck they were a kick ass team with great entrance music.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Both sides make great points, which just leads us to one conclusion - there are truly exceptions to each and every rule. That being said...

I look at Chavo Guerrero, especially trying to be serious and in a serious feud with Rey Mysterio or CM Punk, and I see two things.

1. A grown man coming out riding a wooden horse.
2. Backstage, selling Amway.

I cannot take Chavo seriously now because of how hilariously over the top those gimmicks were.

 

[bowlinbing]

If we're going to talk Chavo's unfortunate gimmicks... #3. Kerwin White... yeah, the bandanna and the name reversion has helped people forget that a bit, but its more that Kerwin was just stupid... Sometimes it matters, anyone think if Christian Cage needed to dramatically change his character, that he lacked the charisma to pull it off and be successful with something new? It is easier to suspend that disbelief when the body type, and body of work for the performer is not so unique. It's not that Big Daddy V is a horrible gimmick, well, tubby needs to put the shirt back on, but everyone, even the casual fan from the mid-late 90s who doesn't watch anymore could watch an episode of ECW and recognize him.

 

[JW240]

CHUCK PALUMBO!!!
Remember when he had that Gay gimmick.... literally gay. Him and Billy Gunn were the Gay tag team, with Rico.
Now he's a biker (I remember when Undertaker was a biker, too... weird.), but the biker gimmick for Chuck is a bit different from what he had. Cooler, in a sense, but atleast he was winning titles back then.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

I think the general idea of this thread, is to post wrestlers with gimmicks that regardless of how far they've come, or gone.. there is just one, possibly so horrible, that it sticks with them forever. If thats the case, then this is my list.

1. Umaga/Jamal: It solidly took me a year to get comfortable with assuming the guy who used to be managed by Rico, & who was so wreckless with his moves, could've become such a powerful Superstar, who was being pushed to the moon.

When I think of Umaga now, I love his gimmick, however he'll never be capable of living down being one half of 3 Minute Warning.

2. Barry Windham/The Stalker: At one point in time, Barry Windham was a great Superstar, even a member of the Four Horsemen.. & suddenly in 1996 he's repackaged into some guy with camouflage, who hides in the woods & calls himself "The Stalker."

I never knew who Windham truly was until I looked more into it, but once I found out about how good he once was.. I was disgusted that he subjected himself to lowering to the standards of such a horrible gimmick, like "The Stalker."

3. Kane/Issac Yankem/Fake Diesel: Seriously, I think he's the only guy to have entered the Royal Rumble from 1996-1998, each year as a new wrestler. (not counting Foley's 3 in 1 combo) He debuted as Lawler's dentist, cause everyone knew that gimmick would take him far.. & then became repackaged as a rip off.. (personally, I'm glad he at least he stayed longer than the Fake Razor) finally, his best gimmick to date - Kane.

Overall though, regardless of how "monsterous" they'll ever make him, I just won't forget that this is the guy who originally debuted as the man who worked on Jerry Lawler's teeth, yet had the most horific set of his own.

 

[kieran_devlin]

some guys like greggory helms needed a change in charcter to get them going again and sometimes it works and we forget about the old one and see them as separate almost

BUT there are times when even the character changes i still think of the old one like Big V i will allways remember him as the dude that was fat and wore pyjamas

i will always remember some people im just confused right now trying to think of people that i still think of in thier old gimmick but give t time and some will come back to me

 

[nomonksinmyband]

Well Umaga has gotten the change of gimmick and that worked well for him and suddenly has become one of the top monsters in the company who seems credible and they are gonna need one's like him once Kane and the like retire.

Just a though thou, could anyone see Umaga being World Champ after his previous stint in Three Minute Warning

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Just a though thou, could anyone see Umaga being World Champ after his previous stint in Three Minute Warning

Yes, I definately could see Umaga being a World Champion. It took me a solid year to build up the ability to look beyond 3-Minute Warning, however upon doing so.. I've come to see a great big man, who can actually perform well inside the ring, & carry a match with great charisma.

Umaga has proved that he can have 4-5 star matches against the likes of John Cena, (Royal Rumble - Last Man Standing) Triple H., (No Mercy) Shawn Michaels, (Raw) & Bobby Lashley. (Wrestlemania) Because of that, I can definately see him holding World Championship gold around his waist.

His only downfall, is that to be a World Champion, you really need to be capable of cutting a promo, or having a manager cut one for you. So short of screaming, spitting & yelling into a microphone angry-like.. Umaga's character will never be capable of cutting his own promos, otherwise it'll kill the character. And McMahon took away his mouthpiece, to selfishly push himself as a E.C.W. Champion, with Umaga being his monster/body guard.

 

[Koko B Ware's Parrot-Kes!]

I'd have to say unforgotten gimmick- Chuck Palumbo. However different they tried to make him in the F.B.I. or however hard they try to make him as a biker (complete with a fit woman clinging on behind him) I'll always think of him as a gay from Billy and Chuck.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

I'd have to say unforgotten gimmick- Chuck Palumbo. However different they tried to make him in the F.B.I. or however hard they try to make him as a biker (complete with a fit woman clinging on behind him) I'll always think of him as a gay from Billy and Chuck.

For me, I'll always remember Chuck Palumbo as the Lex Luger wannabe. I love how Luger went on about 3% body fat, so Palumbo took it down to 2% body fat.. when in real life, isn't it actually hurting your body to not have at least 3-5% body fat?

Anyways, I honestly liked Palumbo from those days. I even enjoyed the stupidity of the Billy & Chuck gimmick, although it only hurt both of them. It seems to me Palumbo is more of a gimmick infringement than anyone else.

He's stolen Lex Luger's "Total Package" gimmick, he's stolen the Undertaker's "American Badass" image, he's ripped off gay gimmicks & italian gimmicks with previous things as well. He really needs to find himself, is what he needs to do.

 

[nomonksinmyband]

I could see Umaga as World Champion was just wondering if I was the only one. Don't know who I would have as his mouthpiece with Estrada being ECW GM but only person currently floating around would be Matt Striker.

I don't know if I could see Umaga switch and be over as a Face like Kane managed too but yeah.

On a different note however, Raven comes to mind as someone who was saddled with crappy gimmicks aka Johnny Polo and Scotty Flamingo and managed to break past them and create an iconic character.

 

[avrice]

Going Way back you have to remember characters such as Max Moon ( Konan) and Aldo Mantoya ( Justin Credible) a lot of the wrestlers have gone though some changed Brooklyn Brawler? Abe "knuckle Ball" Schwartz Steve Lambardi? you can look all about the WWE what about Kevin Throne when we was on Smackdown and all white? comes back as a Vampyre then as an actual Wrestler? fact is a lot of the wrestlers come back repackaged cause management thinks they have what it takes to make it big they just need to find the right gimmick and sometimes the Gimmick is just being them such as Gregory Helms and a whole lot more, Steve Austin, The ROCK, etc.

 

[DeadmanInc.]

Umaga was hard for me to adjust to because I loved 3 Minute Warning. I liked Umaga when he had a manager, but now his character is very limited, which makes me miss his days as Jamal.

I absolutely cannot take "Kip James" and Chuck Palumbo seriously. The gay gimmick was so over the top, it's really hard to look past that.

I couldn't look past Rikishi's past ol' dancing, thong-wearing fat guy days back when he received that push as the guy who ran over SCSA. It was probably the fact that he didn't really change his ring attire.


I think Kane is the best example of how a good gimmick can take you far in this business. He went from a dentist to fake Diesel, to Kane. He played his Kane character so well that it was actually hard for me to believe that he was Issac Yankem.