Underrated by IWC

[Duderino]

Underrated: Alberto Del Rio. I don't get why everybody says this guy is so boring. Granted he was better as a heel. The Mexican Aristocrat gimmick with the cars was great. People say that the crowd only cares about Roberto, but since turning face the WWE has given ADR fewer and fewer lines, so he isn't really being given the chance to get over as a face by himself.

As a face the casuals don't pop for him and the IWC hates the guy. I find his in-ring work to be far superior to Ziggler's. I'm never bored watching an ADR match, which is more than I can say for Ziggler.

Overrated: The shield. Each of these guys will probably go on to do bigger and better things, and they are bringing relevance to the titles that they hold right now. I must also say that they've put on some great matches so far in the WWE, but their current gimmick and feud are running out of gas.

They've had some classic matches with team hell no, but Team Hell No deserves more of the credit for that. (The Shield's match at Wrestlemania against Sheamus, Orton and Big Show was subpar if you ask me.) Let them hold the titles for a while and then let them dissolve to do their own thing.

 

[faltemer]

Here's a real life high school example of what I'm talking about:

There were 2 kids, 1 was me and 1 was a good friend of mine. Now my friend would always try to be popular, would buy clothes the popular kids would buy, same hair style, would often do the same things as the popular kid because he wanted to fit in.

I was the exact opposite, I didn't try to be popular, I bought the clothes I liked and did things I liked to do, not what someone else wanted me to do. My first week at the new school I was getting picked on initially for this, a few days go buy and some popular kids that were having fun with me called me over, said to me this girl really wants to ask you out. You can look at the girls face and know this is bullshit so I called them out on it. They said to me "you will do this or you will never hang with the popular kids again in this school", I walked off, didn't say a word. These kids later in the day started shoving me, so I shoved back, one of them I threw right down in the classroom, I said if he wanted to start something meet me outside after school, he backed off. The rest of the day they left me alone. The VERY next day every one that picked on me were acting nice to me, talked to me like a human, treated me with respect, asked me to hang out. 1 of them even pulled me aside and said "you know I was under the impression you were some loser ****** but you're actually a pretty cool guy". From that day forward I never had another issue.

My friend however would get more and more shunned every day at school until 1 day he was verbally torn to shreds by these exact same kids. I would stand up for him but they always said the same thing. "I can't stand that guy, he tries way too hard to be cool, its like he's a robot".

The point is they respected me because I acted the way I acted and stood up for myself, I did what I thought was right and what felt natural to me. My friend did the opposite and it caused him a lot of headaches over the next 3 years.

first time i've ever seen someone put themselves over on a forum the way you just have. And for someone who complains about the believeability of ziggler you come off as 100% false and way too forced. 4/10 for effort

 

[TSG]

Overrated: The Undertaker

I can feel the heat that's about to come down on me for this, and I completely understand. I guess it'll probably come down to what your viewpoint is. But to me, Taker is completely overrated. People get so caught up in the gimmick and the streak they don't realize that it's literally all he has. He rarely wrestles beyond 5 times a year any more; not that he should. But it's probably time to hang it up. He puts out one quality match a year now a days, and considering the most recent ones were pulled off with men such as CM Punk, Edge and Shawn Michaels (not counting the Triple H series, where the first match wasn't nearly great), he can't get all the credit. I'm not trying to hate on those matches, or Taker's performance in them: he is a good in ring worker, especially for his age. But he gets way too much love for doing it once or twice a year, and gets a majority of it because of the streak. If it wasn't for that Streak, no one would view his in-ring work he's amassed over the past 20 years any greater than what Andre, Kane, Vader, Show, or many other consistently solid big men have out forth.

Not too mention that God-awful period in the early 2000's. For all the hate Triple H gets for burying young talent (only some of which is accurate, by the way), Undertaker made him look like a world-class jobber when it came to putting guys over. He put slim to none of the Smackdown talent over, didn't put forth the greatest in-ring contests over the time period either. Plus, the biker gimmick was probably the most boring part of his WWE career, and it did take up roughly 1/5 of it, 1/4 if you don't count the years where he has only been active at Mania.

I'm not saying The Undertaker isn't a talented guy, and he will forever be remembered as the one of the best. he deserves a lot of it. However, I've never heard one bad word spoken about the man here on these forums, or in the IWC as general, and he doesn't deserve all of the love he gets, and quite honestly should get some more criticism.

 

[Kidpolean]

Overrated: The Undertaker

I can feel the heat that's about to come down on me for this, and I completely understand. I guess it'll probably come down to what your viewpoint is. But to me, Taker is completely overrated. People get so caught up in the gimmick and the streak they don't realize that it's literally all he has. He rarely wrestles beyond 5 times a year any more; not that he should. But it's probably time to hang it up. He puts out one quality match a year now a days, and considering the most recent ones were pulled off with men such as CM Punk, Edge and Shawn Michaels (not counting the Triple H series, where the first match wasn't nearly great), he can't get all the credit. I'm not trying to hate on those matches, or Taker's performance in them: he is a good in ring worker, especially for his age. But he gets way too much love for doing it once or twice a year, and gets a majority of it because of the streak. If it wasn't for that Streak, no one would view his in-ring work he's amassed over the past 20 years any greater than what Andre, Kane, Vader, Show, or many other consistently solid big men have out forth.

Not too mention that God-awful period in the early 2000's. For all the hate Triple H gets for burying young talent (only some of which is accurate, by the way), Undertaker made him look like a world-class jobber when it came to putting guys over. He put slim to none of the Smackdown talent over, didn't put forth the greatest in-ring contests over the time period either. Plus, the biker gimmick was probably the most boring part of his WWE career, and it did take up roughly 1/5 of it, 1/4 if you don't count the years where he has only been active at Mania.

I'm not saying The Undertaker isn't a talented guy, and he will forever be remembered as the one of the best. he deserves a lot of it. However, I've never heard one bad word spoken about the man here on these forums, or in the IWC as general, and he doesn't deserve all of the love he gets, and quite honestly should get some more criticism.

Yea we should definitely criticize Undertaker MORE!!!!! I mean the dude clearly is overrated. All he ever does is have the best match on the biggest show every year. Who cares that he has the greatest gimmick of all time? His HIAC matches with HBK and Mankind weren't that great!!!!! Anybody can wrestle for 20 plus years and still put on 5 star matches!!! Clearly that 3 year biker gimmick should take away from everything else he has accomplished

IN OTHER WORDS.........YOU SOUND STUPID

 

[LoudClearVoice]

I may be wrong, but I believe one of the problems the IWC had with The Miz was that despite being WWE Champ, he was still overshadowed by The Rock and John Cena during Wrestlemania season. He tried to step his game up, but he ended being no different/worse than his pre-"Rock hosting WM" gimmick.

Apart from that, great post. I agree with all the points you made, especially those about Zack Ryder and Tyson Kidd.

The entire roster was overshadowed by Rock and Cena. How was that Miz's fault? I like the Miz but he will NEVER be at the level of Rock or Cena so he was a victim of the circumstances when Rock and Cena started their fued and he happened to be the champ.

I agree with JH though. Miz is underrated, it's just that creative doesn't know what to do with him. He's better on the mic than 90% of the roster and while he's not CM Punk or Daniel Bryan in the ring, he's not Hulk Hogan either. He's decent enough. By all accounts, Miz works his ass off and he's always out promoting WWE with TV appearances, autograph signings, promo events, etc.

He definitely should be an upper midcarder to fringe main eventer right now.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

Yea we should definitely criticize Undertaker MORE!!!!! I mean the dude clearly is overrated. All he ever does is have the best match on the biggest show every year. Who cares that he has the greatest gimmick of all time? His HIAC matches with HBK and Mankind weren't that great!!!!! Anybody can wrestle for 20 plus years and still put on 5 star matches!!! Clearly that 3 year biker gimmick should take away from everything else he has accomplished

IN OTHER WORDS.........YOU SOUND STUPID

You know what, just because of this I'm giving TSG some rep for coming out with his opinion.

I don't agree with him: I think that at this stage of his career anything he's giving to the WWE is gravy at this point, but it's really goddamn good gravy. I don't know about his early 2000 run on Smackdown and the degree to which he buried guys or not. I'll have to take a look. I remember him being hurt a lot early in the decade, but later on I remember him putting over pretty much anyone who was the champ or being pushed, including Edge, CM Punk, JBL, and even The Great Khali.

But at least the guy came out with what would likely be unpopular and gave it an argument.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

first time i've ever seen someone put themselves over on a forum the way you just have. And for someone who complains about the believeability of ziggler you come off as 100% false and way too forced. 4/10 for effort

I'm not a wrestler like Ziggler, I don't HAVE to get over especially on these forums. It may sound forced but that story is 100% accurate pal and it was just an example. Also, lets for arguments sake pretend I made that whole story up, every single word, it doesn't matter because it still perfectly makes the point I'm trying to make with Ziggler, he has no believability to his character and he will never be "The Guy" (despite a good chunk of these forums thinking he should be) or a true main eventer until he comes off as more organic. If the character isn't believable it can't be excepted for the long haul. He carries himself as someone who wants to be the best, not someone who actually IS the best.

Instead of questioning the validity of my story which you will never know if its true or not since you weren't there (for the record it was 100% true) maybe you should look at the point trying to be made instead of trying to pick apart an example you have no clue if it happened or not.

For the record I'm not trying to put myself over, it just so happened me and a old friends were discussing high school shit the night before and the story just popped into my head when I was writing in this thread. If you know anything about me you will know the LAST thing I care about is what anyone thinks of me. I definitely got to put myself over at work but not on Wrestlezone Forums that's for sure. I live my life and I am who I am, some people love me for it, others don't. I learned a long time ago that worrying about what others think of you will cause you a lot more headaches in life then if you let it go and not let it bother you.

 

[sanefan_har]

The entire roster was overshadowed by Rock and Cena. How was that Miz's fault? I like the Miz but he will NEVER be at the level of Rock or Cena so he was a victim of the circumstances when Rock and Cena started their fued and he happened to be the champ.

I agree with JH though. Miz is underrated, it's just that creative doesn't know what to do with him. He's better on the mic than 90% of the roster and while he's not CM Punk or Daniel Bryan in the ring, he's not Hulk Hogan either. He's decent enough. By all accounts, Miz works his ass off and he's always out promoting WWE with TV appearances, autograph signings, promo events, etc.

He definitely should be an upper midcarder to fringe main eventer right now.

I wasn't blaming the Miz. I was rather paraphrasing the problem the IWC had with him during that time. It wasn't justified, as you rightly pointed out, but it ended up being an argument against Miz regardless.

 

[faltemer]

Instead of questioning the validity of my story which you will never know if its true or not since you weren't there (for the record it was 100% true) maybe you should look at the point trying to be made instead of trying to pick apart an example you have no clue if it happened or not..

Both of your posts seem overly braggy but lets just say that's only my opinion.

Let's look at your point then, in what way is he not believable? You claim his showoff gimmick comes across as fake because it isn't realistic? You even claim you are willing to "put yourself over" at work and since wrestling is his job it makes 100% logical sense to try and steal the show each night. Whereas miz's character goes from arrogant heel to arrogant...same when he switches to a babyface, which makes no sense. He isn't portraying a rebel, he just is arrogant and mentions the city they are in. Now don;t get me wrong, I like both of them, but claiming ziggler is overrated because he sells to much or his gimmick is that he steals the show is basically saying shawn micheals is overrated because those are two traits very much associated with him. And the fact that your story, which for this purpose let's say is true, comes across as fake, who are you to judge believeability.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Both of your posts seem overly braggy but lets just say that's only my opinion.

Let's look at your point then, in what way is he not believable? You claim his showoff gimmick comes across as fake because it isn't realistic? You even claim you are willing to "put yourself over" at work and since wrestling is his job it makes 100% logical sense to try and steal the show each night. Whereas miz's character goes from arrogant heel to arrogant...same when he switches to a babyface, which makes no sense. He isn't portraying a rebel, he just is arrogant and mentions the city they are in. Now don;t get me wrong, I like both of them, but claiming ziggler is overrated because he sells to much or his gimmick is that he steals the show is basically saying shawn micheals is overrated because those are two traits very much associated with him. And the fact that your story, which for this purpose let's say is true, comes across as fake, who are you to judge believeability.

Ziggler is overrated because he's nothing but a mechanic, plain and simple. He's good at what he does, he isn't great and since so many people on the IWC claim he should be in the main event I would say that makes him overrated in the IWC's eyes. I never said I had an issue with him attempting to put himself over, he should but in all honesty how many times has Ziggler stolen the show? I've seen this guy wrestle 100's of times and I cant think of a single time he stole the show.

Now I work in an office and believe me when I tell you that acting fake is what most do to put themselves over. Its often putting on a fake smile and nodding your head a lot even when you don't agree. At the end of the day though its not my office and its not my decision on what to do, they pay me to do a job for them and I do it. I often speak up for something I don't like but if they don't like it I got to do it their way.

Now Zigglers job has some similarities to mine, at the end of the day he does what he's told but theres a big difference, once Ziggler is on TV and has a promo or a match outside of a few things he's pretty much in control. The thing is though his promos sound very robotic, you can tell he's reading off a script. His matches are good technically, but they don't have heat and they don't have emotion, same with his promos. From a technical standpoint they are fine but the point of a promo is to get some emotion from the crowd and nothing he says or does gets me emotionally invested. He's just another guy and if they fired him today, in a month no one would remember or care that he's gone. You fire Daniel Bryan today people will care in a month. Daniel Bryan can get emotion from a crowd, he knows how to work a crowd, Ziggler doesn't.

I'm a firm believer in although wrestling is pre determined its best when it comes off as real. Nothing about Ziggler feels real. The way he works in the ring he does mannerisms that no one would ever do in a fight. In wrestling you have to suspend disbelief (peoples elbow is a good example of this) but I can't do it with Ziggler. He sells like Stretch Armstrong. You hit a normal wrestler with lets say a clothesline they fall back and hit the ground, makes sense. You hit Ziggler with a clothesline and he's grabbing his head while flopping all around the ring like a fish on the sand, tell me how that is realistic in every way? That's also what I mean*him being a try hard. If he just took that clothesline like a normal person it would be a lot more effective than going the extra mile and flopping half across the ring because it is realistically what a person would do. Zigglers the only guy who could legitimately get a concussion and make it look fake. I don't know how he did it when Swagger booted him in the head but he did it. Honestly if Swaggers kick wasn't so loud I would have thought the injury was a work.

Theres no natural flow to Ziggler. I love that he works his ass off but I believe he would be much better off if he didn't try and force things and let things flow more naturally.

Now I'm not sure if you are going to reply but if you do try and disprove what I say about Ziggler not make personal assessments about me. If you didn't notice this thread isn't a discussion about if what I say feels forced or not its a thread on who we feel the IWC feels is underrated and overrated (well the overrated part was added by others but whatever, it fits). Try commenting on that. If you don't like what I say about Ziggler fine, try and prove me wrong instead of saying "well your comments feel forced", that's not an argument.

P.S. Shawn DID steal the show every night or damn close to it. He was believable as a cocky, arrogant person (and according to his closest friends he was a cocky, aarrogant, primadonna in real life). Shawn didn't pretend to be the showstopper, he really was the showstopper. Ziggler don't steal no shows, EVER.

 

[wrestlingfan]

Underrated: John Cena. This man is one of the greatest pro wrestlers in the last 10 years but hardly does he ever get credit for it. If Cena found the cure to cancer, people would still hate him and make up an excuse for why.