Two Very Imporant messages.

all it is spreading your message so everyone gets a chance to hear what I'm trying to say and this isn't just a wrestling forum

No, it's pretty much a wrestling forum.

I'm not entirely against your cause, and I'll sign. But here's the thing; do you really expect that anyone here that posts regularly on these forums is not, in fact, a wrestling fan? For that matter, do you not see that the name
Of this place is Wrestlezone?
 
No, honestly, there's be no differences to the world. People would still be starving, there'd still be war, there'd still be natural disasters, but no, who cares about that, right? Let's stop wearing fur, people! That'll clearly make this earth a better place.

Changing the world, one fur coat at a time.
 
deanrandterry

First off your very original joke made me chuckle

One of the main problems is that animal cruelty crimes are too light there basically a slap on the wrist. We need much harsher jail time for these people. They are the real dangers to society because if they could do it to an animal it wouldn't surprise me if they killed a human next. If you look into all the serial killers and their childhoods you will find out that pretty much all of them started off by touring animals. Animal cruelty laws should face very long jail time so there is more to risk for these people who get off on abusing animals.

If you think animal cruelty laws are fair then try to make sense of this

Michael Vick served only 23 months for dogfighting in which for over 5 years he terribly abused these dogs would hang or drown them. Now he is back with the NFL making millions but it's ok because he is helping your team win

Then we have Marc Emery a man who sold marijuana seeds from Canada get 5 years in an American prison


Is that justice?

So your argument is if a person kills animals they kill people?

Like I said they are 2 very different things. My uncle hunts, doesn't mean he would ever kill a person and if you ever met the guy you would know why I said that.

Michael Vick lost about 100 million dollars for the dogfighting ordeal and lost 23 months of his life because of dog fighting so don't tell me he didn't pay for what he did. He paid dearly both in money and years of his life. He is also a football player, a damn good one at that too. Sounds to me like u think he should never play football again and should spend 10 years in jail because he screwed up.

Vick paid his debt in my opinion and deserves to play in the NFL again. He isn't abusing dogs anymore so what's the issue?

I agree with Marc Emery (I know all about that) but what does that have to do with animal cruelty?

Justice often doesn't exist anywhere (in Emery's case, not Vicks) its the way it is. You can spend your life bitching and giving yourself a heart attack or deal. If you can't deal move somewhere that you feel is better, but bitching on websites isn't gonna help. If you feel that strongly petition, do what you feel you need to do but this isn't the best place to do it.
 
Just to make one thing clear I don't hate hunters I hate people who torture animals or kill them for entertainment.

Michael Vick should be in jail today I used marc emery as an example to show you how screwed our system is the fact that you can torture hundreds of dogs for over 5 years and only serve 23 months in prison. 23 months isn't enough for all the pain and suffering he caused but if you sell seeds your marked as a dangerous criminal at serve 5 years

and like everyone else on here I'm a huge wrestling fan too I know that this mainly a wrestling forum but it's also a forum where you can discuss different topics not every section on here has to do with wrestling which makes is why I like i really like this site. I don't see the problem in letting more people in on what's going on in the world
 
Nor do I; again, I'm not really questioning your motivation. I'm questioning the choice of a wrestling forum. The same type of fans that boo Daniel Bryan on the principal that he's a vegan ( rudimentary explanation, but let's work with it). Did you expect for people to be leaping at the idea of signing your petition?
 
I chose this forum because it is one of the only forums that I'm a member of. Like I said before I posted this in the non-wrestling section. The reason why because I never make wrestling related threads because 98% of the stuff I'm thinking about is already being discussed. Like everyone on here there is just more on our minds than wrestling. This is something I feel strongly about and the whole idea of a petition is to get as many signatures as possible and this is a forum with a lot of members. I know I may sound harsh sometimes but I'm very passionate in my beliefs. I wouldn't look at it as me bitching I'm just responding to the comments that were made. I guess you’re called a bad guy then to tell a good message, I was expecting to get a lot of negative comments but I always try to stay hopeful and maybe some people on here believed in what I was trying to say. This probably won’t be the last time make another thread about another petition or talking about other things I think what’s wrong with the world I like hearing what other people think about things I strongly believe in.
 
to answer those two dumb questions
i don't use or wear anything that was made from animal

and also don't tell me something I already know like i don't know what I'm talking about. I know all about how animals are used for testing products. After doing the reasearch I was shocked about how many products still torture animals to test there products. Thats for a different thread to dicuss I'm working to cut out all animal tested products as well.
 
Is it just me, or is this Todd person reached (or even surpassed) the Daniel Bryan "I AM A ROLE MODEL! I AM A VEGAN" levels of Douche-baggery?
please note, I was merely insinuating that the character the wrestler portrays is a douche-bag. I for one am a fan of the character and the performer.


Todd, question for you. Lets say hypothetically, you are diagnosed with a treatable disease, but one that is fatal if not treated. However, the cure was found by testing it on animals. Would you use the cure, or die?
 
Legalized hunting actually helps with certain animal populations. Poachers are the guys you want to go after.

Are you part of PETA?
 
to answer those two dumb questions
i don't use or wear anything that was made from animal
Sorry, I didn't mean to be a dick, but there are a lot of people who are hypocritical about it and I just wanted to know where you stand. I'm vegan as well, so I'm not trying to ridicule you.
Then, however, I don't see why in your mind a hunter is an especially bad person compared to a normal animal products consumer - one kills, the other commisions confining and killing (to put it roughly).

Fur isn't much worse than leather, hunting isn't much worse than buying animal products. Those are branches, not the root of the problem. Without diluting the root, the branches will regrow. By diluting the root, the branches will die automatically.

The root is the strict distinction between human and non-human interests, some even (still) going as far as claiming humans are no animals. I know it is deeply influenced by abrahamitic religions and natural to the degree that "unsimilar" or "farther" is naturally regarded as "lesser" (e.g. most people would take five dead random people over one dead friend) and therefore hard to tackle. You learn it incipent from being a baby and are constantly assured by society and interest groups. It's so deeply enrooted in our society that it takes decades to change.
You can see the heaviest hypocrisy in the difference between how pets and farm animals are treated. The interests of some animals (those you know and are "near") are held in high regard while those of the used ones are only a barrier to profit.

So what can one do? Break the walls down. Show that farm and wild animals have just as much consciousness as pets and a lot of similar interests to humans, in kind and strength. Argue that the existence and strength of interests are the only relevant factor in determining if and how one should be regarded. Provide arguments on why regarding their interests means not using them. Disclose the consequences of using them that are sweeped under the carpet. Demonstrate that not using them is not as difficult as generally assumed.

Nothing is achieved by attacking people, progress can only come from tackling the actions. Of course you won't be able to convince anyone, but this problem is void once conciousness in society is established. If you notice that you're o n a dead end, you should stop because otherwise it casts a damning light on your goals.
One of my basic principles is that there are no bad people, just bad actions and I'll fight the actions, not people. Everyone makes mistakes and harms others in one way or another, so there's no reason to sit on a high horse and condemn other people. That, however, doesn't mean that you have to accept everything others do.

"Murder" is a word with a legal meaning - using it here will just make you look unobjective and aggressive. Nobody will listen to you if you take the position of the antagonist and act like you hate the ones you want to have on your side. There are no "better" people.
 
Vega
Sorry about that before it's just that I get the same questions over and over even after I said how I feel about that certain topic. But you gave me one of the first real responses. I agree with what you had to say and I know what you mean about the hypocritical type people. That’s one of the reasons why I stopped eating meat two years ago because all my life I was against the idea of killing animals for fashion. I can't even kill a bug. I know that I can come off being really harsh sometimes, it's just I get angry when I hear about these types of things and I know a lot of people don't know the real truth of what really goes on. I don't have a problem with people who eat meat because the way I look at it is that no one is telling the lion not to kill the zebra for food. I have a problem with the way animals are treated in the slaughterhouses. The animals in the slaughterhouses are treated in such poor conditions. I don't have a problem with hunters I know about the over population and them dyeing of starvation. I have a problem with the people who hunt as a sport when after they are done hunting they stuff the animal to put on its wall. There’s a difference between regular hunters and big game hunters.
 

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