Topic #1, Group #1: Most Impressive Winning Streak in Sports

Discussion in 'Sports Debater's League' started by klunderbunker, Jan 3, 2011.

  1. Cena's Little Helper

    Cena's Little Helper Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    Except, as I said before, Robinson's draws can also be considered as wins since he received the majority of points in both cases. Points in boxing are not proportional. If you have three judges and one of them scores a fight 100-0 in favor of one fighter while the others score the fight as a draw (i.e., 50-50), the fight would still be considered a draw even though the first fighter received 200 of the 300 available points.

    None of Robinson's draws during his streak saw him evenly split or come out short on the available points. Technically then, his draws can be deemed as wins (and this why some people rightly regard his streak as one of the winning variety).


    Even if they did play for 58-62 games straight through a similar amount of days, the physical and mental determination necessary to do so pales in comparison to that required by Robinson to get through 91 fights in a little over 8 years. The amount of cardiovascular endurance needed by an MMA fighter or boxer to get through a whole fight without gassing is unthinkable in comparison to that needed by an athlete involved in a non-contact professional sport.

    As for the quality of the teams, besides the fact that the Lakers primarily faced losing teams, there was relatively little variety in the NBA during this time. NBA teams now have to potentially worry about facing off against 29 other teams. During their streak, the Lakers only had to worry about 15 teams (Cincinnati Royals not included). Besides being easier than what NBA teams have to prepare for nowadays, it doesn't hold a candle to the 72 different fighters Robinson and his camp had to train and prepare for during his winning-streak.


    Camacho might get into the Boxing Hall of Fame. Besides Camacho, there are only two fighters from Chavez's streak who aren't yet eligible for induction: Silvio Walter Rojas and Juan Soberanes. These fighters respectively have records of 45-45-1 and 45-31-2 (that is to say, their chances of getting into the Hall of Fame when they're eligible are slim to none). So, as I said before, yes, I do think that this means two things:

    1) In all probability, Camacho is the only other Chavez-streak-opponent that will be inducted into the IBHOF.

    2) In terms of the quality of opponents, Chavez's streak is much, much less valuable than Robinson's.

    As for LaMotta: 108 of Robinson's 173 wins were by knockout, but he never got more than a unanimous decision over LaMotta, a fighter notorious for his toughness and lack of a pain threshold (also, LaMotta did get one victory over Robinson). Robinson never had any problem acknowledging how tough LaMotta was, so, even if he did beat him almost every time they met, these victories shouldn't be discounted (this can't be stressed enough when you take into account LaMotta's own Hall of Fame status).

    Finally, in regards to the hypothetical situation you presented, it's just that: a hypothetical situation. What-ifs add nothing of value to the world of sports, only results do.
     
    #26
  2. Cena's Little Helper

    Cena's Little Helper Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    I'm don't want to downplay what the UConn Women's Basketball team accomplished, but there are two simple facts that need to be faced here:

    1) The pool of quality recruits for women's college basketball is extremely small relative to that of men's college basketball.

    2) An overwhelming majority, if not all, of these women get snatched up by only a handful of schools, UConn being one of the most significant.

    I think it's great that women are able to add something significant to the sporting world, but the heavy concentration of talent in women's college basketball is very troublesome for your argument, People's Peep.

    CH David more or less implied the same thing I'm saying here in his rebuttal, so there's not much more to say on the matter.
     
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  3. Big Sexy

    Big Sexy Deadly Rap Cannibal

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    I know exactly how boxing is scored and I realize SOME consider his streak to be a winning streak including highly respected publications like Sports Illustrated. However, I will once again go to his official record. His official career record was 173-19-6-2. During his 91 fight streak his official record was credited with 89 wins and 2 draws. I just can't see how anyone can put a "most impressive winning streak" tag on a streak that isn't 100% recognized as a winning streak.

    We are talking about two completely different sports here and the toll an NBA game takes compared to a fight can't really be compared. I'll admit a 10-15 round fight will take more endurance then an NBA game but Robinson also had his fair share of short fights that lasted 5 rounds or less, including many that only lasted 1 or 2 rounds. Those shorter fights certainly don't take as much of a toll as an NBA game.

    Not only are we talking about two completely different sports but we are also talking about two completely different types of streaks. The Lakers obviously play an 82 game season so the streak they had was just over a couple months. Back when Robinson had his streak it was over an 8 year period which averages to a little under 1 fight a month. That's a lot of fights in a short period but you can't really compare the toll these streaks took when they were so different in length because of how different the sports are.

    Camacho will almost certainly get into the Hall of Fame and Jose Luis Ramirez is another fighter that Chavez beat who should end up in the HOF. Ramirez went 102-9 in his career and was a 2 time WBC lightweight champion.

    Yes the streak is a little less valuable but not nearly by as much as you seem to think. Chavez still defeated 11 world champions during his streak. Those guys careers may not have had great HOF endings but at the time they were great fighters. Chavez faced the best possible competition for his era. Robinson's streak is more impressive then that of Chavez but Chavez's streak was still very impressive in its own right and it shows that what Robinson did wasn't some impossible mark that no one could come close to.

    LaMotta was a great fighter and I'm not saying those wins should be discounted, but when you fight a guy 5 times and win 80% of those fights, you obviously have his number.

    I agree. And results show that the Lakers won 33 straight games, something that no team in professional team sports has ever really come close to doing. Robinson's streak, whether you count it as a winning streak or not, is something that another fighter has come very close to matching in the world of boxing.
     
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  4. CH David

    CH David A Jock That Loves Pepsi

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    Okay when I look at the records for the five seasons surrounding the streak, '69-70 through '73-74, all I see are the same teams in the playoffs or finishing in the tops of the divisions. The parity on the court was better but it wasn't showing in the standings for a while. Oh just to reply to an early rebuttal about the Hawks, if we really have to get into it, the Atlanta Hawks may have finished with an above .500 record the next season, but they were under .500 for another 4 seasons after that.

    How many dynasties from this era of college football had a 47 game winning streak? Hell, how many dynasties had a winning streak of more than 30? Nobody. Texas got to 30, but like I said, no more than 30. So yeah, with the game being filled with dynasties at the time as you say, why aren't there more 30+ game winning streaks?

    You can say it all you want. Miami and USC both lost their games. That's all there is too it. Oklahoma had a few games that were won by a touchdown or less. You still won't win this argument because you talked about dynasties above and still can't come up with a winning streak over 30 in the general time period. I'll give you the time frame, '40s-70s. How many teams other than Oklahoma had a winning streak over 30? Since I'm a nice guy I'll answer it for you. One! Toledo.

    The Atlanta Hawks may have finished with an above .500 record the next season, but they were under .500 for another 4 seasons after that. Yeah, struggling in the '70s until the late portions of the decade.


    Exactly. You're trying to use it as a negative, so I flipped it onto you. Except Oklahoma played 25 games against .500 or better teams out of the 47. Lakers' played 15 out of 33. Do I need to do the math on this one? End results are what matter, not the talent that didn't get it done.

    So if they were so good in these seasons, why couldn't they help their teams win more games? I mean the parity was just sooooo much better in the '70s we should have seen more teams over .500.
     
    #29
  5. Big Sexy

    Big Sexy Deadly Rap Cannibal

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    1. You can go to any few year period in the NBA and there is going to be a similar group of teams at the top of the conferences for those years. There were still always some changes near the bottom of the playoffs showing that the competition was there and the other teams in the league were no slouches.

    2. The fact that ATL lost Maravich and Walt Bellamy is the biggest reason they fell off after making the playoffs in 72-73. It's hard to win when your two best players are gone.
    Oklahoma's streak was impressive I'm not doubting that, and the dynasties were there just because you don't win 30+ straight doesn't mean you aren't a dynasty. Oklahoma hit a very impressive hot streak but in the grand scheme of things with everything they had going for them like less recruting competition and less competitive schedules, their win streak just isn't as impressive as the Lakers.


    And I've already explained to you that dynasties don't have to win every single game. Notre Dame from 1946-49 had no losses and just two draws. That was a dynasty. Army went 6 straight from 44-49 with juts 2 losses and 2 ties. Oklahoma obviously had the longest streak and again it's a very impressive streak no one will deny that but it isn't the most impressive in the history of sports.
    Once again they lost Maravich and Bellamy and that's why they went back in the tank. In 71-72 they had a very talented and competitive team.
    You don't need to explain the math but I need to explain to you again that it is two completely different sports. With the number of college football teams and the often shit schedules they face it isn't very hard to have a .500 or better record and that record doesn't always make you a good team.
    There were 17 teams and 8 were over .500, 9 were under. You do realize in a league like the NBA, NHL, NFL, and MLB not everyone can have a winning record? It's impossible. Around half did and half didn't like it should be.
     
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