Third Round - Chicago Region: I Quit Match - Sting vs. Kurt Angle

[klunderbunker]

This is a third round match in the Chicago Region.

Rules: The only way to win this match is by submission. There are no disqualifications and anything goes. To win, you must make your opponent either submit, tap out, or say the words I Quit.

Location: United Center, Chicago, Illinois

Sting

Vs.

Kurt Angle

​

Voting is open for 4 days.

 

[Slyfox696]

This goes to Sting, and easily. Sting doesn't tap, and he certainly doesn't say I Quit. Kurt Angle on the other hand is basically a bitch half the time, and won't take the punishment Sting puts out.

Sting wins this, and it shouldn't be close.


EDIT: Oh, and this video pretty much shows Angle's tolerance for the Scorpion Death Lock.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

I was going to vote Angle due to his repertoire being more varied, but it was close, and Slyfox has swayed me to at least wait. Right now I'm pretty much right in the middle, maybe leaning slightly Sting.

 

[klunderbunker]

This is definitely Sting for the reasons Sly said. I've watched Sting for about 20 years now and he's my second favorite wrestler. Never can I remember him giving up. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I don't remember it. I can think of multiple times where Angle has tapped though. As was already said, Sting doesn't tap, Angle does. This is one sided but sadly it won't be because Angle is an IWC darling.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I'm guessing that when Angle made Sting tap out at Sacrifice in 2007 that was, what, an alternative dimension? So you're saying that before Angle put Sting in the ankle lock, a worm hole materialised in the ring. Angle, sensing this could be his only chance to ever make Sting directly tap out to the ankle lock, knocked Sting through this wormhole. Once in this alternative dimension, Sting was rendered vulnerable to the ankle lock (and lead turned into gold, men into woman, sheep into goats, and Kane into Luke Gallows) and tapped out.

Why, that's quite an absurd argument. I don't know why you'd even put it forward. You're all nuts. I think that it probably took place in this dimension.

 

[Slyfox696]

I'm guessing that when Angle made Sting tap out at Sacrifice in 2007 that was, what, an alternative dimension? So you're saying that before Angle put Sting in the ankle lock, a worm hole materialised in the ring. Angle, sensing this could be his only chance to ever make Sting directly tap out to the ankle lock, knocked Sting through this wormhole. Once in this alternative dimension, Sting was rendered vulnerable to the ankle lock (and lead turned into gold, men into woman, sheep into goats, and Kane into Luke Gallows) and tapped out.

Why, that's quite an absurd argument. I don't know why you'd even put it forward. You're all nuts. I think that it probably took place in this dimension.

That would be a great argument, if anyone actually believed that the Sting of 2007, at the tender age of 48, was actually in his prime. Considering everyone in THIS dimension knows that wrestlers at the age of 48 usually aren't in their prime, as was the case here with Sting, your argument really doesn't hold water.

That was a great try though Sam, it's a shame someone had to make it look completely stupid.

 

[Big Sexy]

When Sting was still in his prime the only time I remember him tapping out was against Bret Hart in WCW. Kurt Angle did make Sting tap at Sacrifice in 2007 but at that point Sting was nearly 50 years old and Kurt was still in his prime. Kurt Angle as previously stated has tapped out a lot.

Kurt Angle has also been at his best as a heel. He has had some decent face runs but nothing too impressive. Kayfabe wise Sting would almost certainly be a face and Angle a heel in this match up. More often then not throughout history the face wins main event I Quit matches.

 

[Uncle Sam]

You're correct - 48 year old Sting, tired from climbing sheds to paint them every summer (you'd think he'd have hired someone to do that by now, wouldn't you?) would have horribly weakened legs.

But you're right; your evidence of The Rock - who I always suspected was just Sting in blackface - making Kurt Angle tap to the sharpshooter is much stronger.

 

[Adam08]

I am not sure who to vote for yet but I am leaning to vote for Sting. Like Sly stated Sting doesn't tap or give up much and angle has lot plenty of times by tapping or quiting. So right now I am undecided.

 

[Schoolboy-Chris]

I’m definitely going with Kurt Angle here, I think that he is the better man for this matchup. Sting was good in his prime, and the Scorpion Death Lock was effective, but I believe that under Angle’s use the Ankle Lock is the better move. There is also the fact that Angle is a master at counters and reversals, something that Sting has never been particularly well known for. Not to say that he doesn’t have a few tricks, but Angle has shown throughout his career that he can turn many moves and attempts by his opponent into a sudden Ankle Lock. Angle is also the better athlete, and I do not think that Sting would be able to keep up with someone of his calibre. Yes Sting has faced all kinds of opponents in his career, but when he was in his prime none of the opponents he faced had the intensity and all round attack that Angle brings to the match.

Other factors to weigh up are their approaches to match ups, and how well suited these are to this match stipulation. Sting is a good all rounder, but most of his actions throughout a match tend to be aimed towards a general weakening of his opponent, rather than weakening their legs and back for the SDL. Angle however, focuses his attack on whatever part of his opponent he is planning to finish the match through working on. His amateur wrestling background, and also his keen interest in MMA, will benefit him here. While Sting’s submission attacks are usually either The SDL or generic moves such as the sleeper or rest holds, Angle has been well known for introducing new moves into his repertoire. I would not be surprised to see him take this match with a move other than the Ankle Lock, as in the past he has used other submissions such as the Triangle Choke, Chickenwing Crossface, Rear Naked Choke and also various arm bar and sleeper variations that are more commonly seen.

While this would undoubtedly be a hard fought match up, I think Angle takes it in the end.

 

[gd]

I don't know here yet. Who do I like better? Probably Angle. Great wrassler right there and he's from just down the road from me, which is always a plus. He may have the better submission move, if that makes any sense. It just seems to me like the Ankle Lock does more damage and makes more people tap than the Death Lock, but that could just be me relying on the avalibility hueristic, being I've probably seen more Angle than Sting matches.

On the other hand, it seems Angles is easier to tap out than Sting, at least trusting all of yinz guys in here. However, like Sam, I just can't get the image of Sting tapping to Angle out of my head. Sure, Sting may have been older, but he was still a main eventer, meaning he's still pretty damn good. I just think that Sting tapping out to the man he's facing in this match previously is too big to overlook.

 

[Supernova]

I'm going for Kurt Angle here, Sting is good no doubt but Kurt Angle in wrestling-machine mode wouldn't lose this. He was always threatening to break people's ankles and stuff. His specialty is submission wrestling, hell this might even end ala Hart v Austin at WM13 but there's no way Angle doesn't lock on the ankle lock grapevine and pick up the win at some point.

 

[Slyfox696]

It just seems to me like the Ankle Lock does more damage and makes more people tap than the Death Lock, but that could just be me relying on the avalibility hueristic, being I've probably seen more Angle than Sting matches.

You'll have to explain this to me, because from what I've watched of Kurt Angle, he applies his Ankle Lock seemingly 5 times a match before someone ever gets close to tapping out. Think of al lthe matches he's had where he's put the Ankle Lock on for minutes at a time, or multiple times throughout the match.

How does that move do more damage? Sting puts it on once, maybe twice, and if he's going to win the match with it, it usually doesn't take more than twice, if even that often.

I just don't see the argument of how the Ankle Lock hurts worse than the Scorpion makes sense.

I'm going for Kurt Angle here, Sting is good no doubt but Kurt Angle in wrestling-machine mode wouldn't lose this. He was always threatening to break people's ankles and stuff.

Holy shit, he THREATENS to break people's ankles and sutff? Well fuck, why didn't I think of that? Nothing make me want to vote for someone more than a wrestler THREATENING another wrestler.

No offense, but that's a fucking joke for an argument.

 

[TwistofRKO]

This is an amazing matchup for the 3rd round.

I'd say Sting would win. He's played the face for the majority of his career, while Angle's best work came as a heel. Typically in this type of match the bad guy is going to quit, tap, and so on. If this was a Last Man Standing, Iron Man match, or something related closer to that, this would be Angle's, but his status and willingness to quit leaves him the loser in this match.

 

[Tenta]

You know, I'm just pointing this out there, but everyone seems of the assumption that either Sting or Kurt Angle can win this match via submission. That isn't the case at all. Magnum TA wasn't a technician, yet he got Tully Blanchard to quit, basically by brutal measures. The Rock used a playtrack to get Mankind to quit. The only times I can remember an "I Quit" match ending via submission are Cena/Orton, and the Backlund/Hart matches. So this weird theory that either Sting or Angle's submission background is going to really play that much of a factor in this match is quite presumptuous. I know it says in the rule that a winner can be announced by submission, but there's no guarantee that this match is going to end in a submission.

That said, it probably will come down to submissions in this match. And frankly, while Angle's great in them, we're dealing with ultra babyface Sting of the 90s for me. I'm going to throw out the following names, just for the lolz of the matter.

Ric Flair- Master of the figure four submission lock. Not only that, but patented the way to set up said Figure Four. Flair absolutely punished the knee and ankle in the midst of setting his opponent up. Much of his moveset centered around working on the knee and ankle. Then again, it also centered around getting caught on the top rope and flopping, but that's merely a minor issue. The fact is, this man knew how to pick apart and work and opponent's legs better than any wrestler, even Kurt Angle.

Vader- Yeah, he never had a submission move, I suppose. Doesn't mean he couldn't; he wrestled all over the world, and worked with all those fancy Japanese wrestlers. I'm pretty sure he could lock in a submission or two. Nevertheless, this was as brutal an opponent as you'll find in any promotion.

Cactus Jack- Again, another brutal opponent. Sure, not really a technician, but as tough as they get. He's actually a wrestler someone can legitimately said has only "quit" once, in which Melina was the cause.

Lex Luger- Yes, say what you want, but Luger's Torture Rack hurt like a mother fucker. Consider that hold for a second. You're repeatedly hitting his shoulders and being cranked incessently, all the while you can do nothing to stop it. It really is a brutal move, in theory.

Nikita Koloff- One of the toughest men in wrestling. The guy was an absolute beats, especially for how (relatively) small he was. Again, not a fantastic submission guy, but definitely a fantasic worker.

Meng- I believe that Meng has only tapped once in his career. Ever. Chris Benoit didn't do it to him, as he simply passed out from the pain. Sting is the only man in history to ever make Meng tap out. Sure, plenty of people have pinned Haku, but absolutely no one has made the guy tap out, submit, or say I Quit. Except, well, Sting.

Jake Roberts- If the guy knew how to quit, he'd have dropped the Thunderbird a long time ago. He, like Cactus and Vader, were absolutely violent men, hell-bent on giving as much pain as possible. And all of these men had Sting in their cross hairs at some point.

Know what else they have in common? Not only have all of them, at some point, lost to Sting via submission, but none of them have ever been able to make Sting tap out. At all. Sting was always the resilient wrestler of WCW, and was extremely charismatic in his day, which I'll go with being from 1990 to about 1996. This was a time in which Sting never tapped. Not once. And as you saw in the above list, he faced some pretty tough mother fuckers, all out for his blood.

Angle is a good wrestler, but he also has a tendency to tap. A lot. Chris Benoit has his number on speed dial. Brock Lesnar's Brock Lock says hi, too. And The Rock's Sharpshooter, a move Angle is going to become very well acquainted with, is making a guest appearance. Angle is great, but I just can't see an ultra babyface Sting tapping out to anyobody. He was always WCW's answer for Hulk Hogan, before the WCW actually got Hulk Hogan. Oh, and I haven't even mentioned that he made Hogan tap, too, in an era in which Hogan was sipping from the fountain of youth like it was wine.

Outside of kayfabe, if it weren't for Sting, Flair, Vader, and Rude, WCW would have closed its doors a long time ago. Sting and Vader were necessary to keep WCW afloat after that whole "Jim Herd wants to make Ric Flair Spartacus" debacle. Keeping your promotion alive tops anything Angle has done, even if someone would argue Angle is keeping TNA alive. It's not true, but I guess I could see the argument. Sting was, and always will be, one of my favorites, and has always stayed loyal to the company he performs for. He has always been the consumate professional, something Pissy Pants McPain Pill on the other side forgot a long time ago. Give me Sting in a great match to allow his tenacity to edge out the victory.

 

[The Brain]

This is a tough call. I would seem Sting would have the advantage as he rarely, if ever, submits. Then I think of the guys who have tapped to Angle. Angle has made Benoit tap. He made HBK tap at WrestleMania. He made Lesnar tap. He was the first to make Kane tap. He even made Hogan tap, although Hogan was past his prime. That's a pretty impressive list and he was heel for four out of the five making it more impressive.

Despite the impressive list I'm still leaning toward Sting. I imagine this as Sting from 1992 vs. Angle from 2002. Even though Angle has made a lot of greats tap I just picture Sting coming out on the winning end. I'll hold off a little while on voting, but I'll probably vote Sting.

I'll edit this post later with my decision in case the vote is a tie.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

I'm guessing that when Angle made Sting tap out at Sacrifice in 2007 that was, what, an alternative dimension? So you're saying that before Angle put Sting in the ankle lock, a worm hole materialised in the ring. Angle, sensing this could be his only chance to ever make Sting directly tap out to the ankle lock, knocked Sting through this wormhole. Once in this alternative dimension, Sting was rendered vulnerable to the ankle lock (and lead turned into gold, men into woman, sheep into goats, and Kane into Luke Gallows) and tapped out.

Why, that's quite an absurd argument. I don't know why you'd even put it forward. You're all nuts. I think that it probably took place in this dimension.

Sam, I love you. Seriously though...STFU!

Sting is still a better wrestler than Angle. Strictly based on selling alone. Do you want me to go further? Angle is good. But hes an awful showman. With Sting's wrestling ability, and Angles BROKEN FRICKING NECK. All Sting would have to do is put on the Death Lock and it would be Snap, Crackle, Pop. Sting wins.

You know why. Because an angle without pain pills isnt very compelling....

 

[Viola Moonlight]

There is one thing that everyone has completely forgotten about when it comes to Kurt Angle comparing to Sting. Kurt Angle takes care of his body with the proper dieting, thus giving him a much higher stamina rating and ability for his limbs to regenerate inflicted damage. Sting is no slouch when talking stamina, but when you have been through an Olympic regime and the training that he's endured, you need to be in tip-top shape when going into endurance-demanding battles like these.

Kurt has recently launched his own food company to show how to properly nourish your body according to what athletic activities you may participate in. Kurt, who has been doing this for a lengthy period, already has the upper advantage in this sector against Sting. There is no-one better than a professional and former amateur/freestyle wrestler to teach eating the correct foods for professional wrestlers. Even if Sting discovered this before heading into his match with Kurt, his body would not be able to adjust in time before the big match.

Don't believe me? Here is some proof:

Spoiler

[YOUTUBE]ZKhDUCCU1iE[/YOUTUBE]​

Even with that lisp, he still has some of the best charisma in the business. Hell, I'm going to order me some healthy grub right now. Sting could never sell me something like that with his charisma, nor can he sell me that he could possibly have the better dieting to defeat Kurt Angle. For those that believe that personal and professional life are separated, here is a clip of Angle choosing the healthier lifestyle of dieting whilst at his job:

Spoiler

[YOUTUBE]15OYxNnlOZA[/YOUTUBE]​

That's dedication, even next to the UFC Fighter Brock Lesnar eating unhealthy crackers.

Vote Kurt Angle, because he's better prepared and much more dedicated.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

There is one thing that everyone has completely forgotten about when it comes to Kurt Angle comparing to Sting. Kurt Angle takes care of his body with the proper dieting, thus giving him a much higher stamina rating and ability for his limbs to regenerate inflicted damage. Sting is no slouch when talking stamina, but when you have been through an Olympic regime and the training that he's endured, you need to be in tip-top shape when going into endurance-demanding battles like these.

Kurt has recently launched his own food company to show how to properly nourish your body according to what athletic activities you may participate in. Kurt, who has been doing this for a lengthy period, already has the upper advantage in this sector against Sting. There is no-one better than a professional and former amateur/freestyle wrestler to teach eating the correct foods for professional wrestlers. Even if Sting discovered this before heading into his match with Kurt, his body would not be able to adjust in time before the big match.

Don't believe me? Here is some proof:

Spoiler

[youtube]ZKhDUCCU1iE[/youtube]​

Even with that lisp, he still has some of the best charisma in the business. Hell, I'm going to order me some healthy grub right now. Sting could never sell me something like that with his charisma, nor can he sell me that he could possibly have the better dieting to defeat Kurt Angle. For those that believe that personal and professional life are separated, here is a clip of Angle choosing the healthier lifestyle of dieting whilst at his job:

Spoiler

[youtube]15OYxNnlOZA[/youtube]​

That's dedication, even next to the UFC Fighter Brock Lesnar eating unhealthy crackers.

Vote Kurt Angle, because he's better prepared and much more dedicated.

Blah Blah Blah....Sucking Angles proverbial cock??

Its been proven time and time again. Stin is the ultimate performer. Strictly because he is better than Angle. Angle pisses his pants while Sting wins World titles.... by the time Angle won the olympics. Sting had already defeated the best in the business.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

Blah Blah Blah....Sucking Angles proverbial cock??

Its been proven time and time again. Stin is the ultimate performer. Strictly because he is better than Angle. Angle pisses his pants while Sting wins World titles.... by the time Angle won the olympics. Sting had already defeated the best in the business.

Considering that at the time of this post you are apparently pissed yourself, you have no right questioning Angle's "problems" such as unintentional wetting. Maybe, just maybe, you should consider the possibility of you knowing of Angle having stains on his pants because you sucked on this proverbial cock you speak of.

You're a diehard Sting mark and I'm a diehard Angle mark. I respect what both men have done for the business and this fight should be a classic, which both you and I can agree on young Mizonkey. You may forget that during the Olympics, Kurt won the gold medal with a broken neck. How in the hell does that constitute the argument of Angle easily giving up? He was severely injured and still went on to compete. Angle, when determined, doesn't give up easily... especially against his long-time TNA rival. Do we forget that Sting has given up to Kurt in the past?

Oh, and for those that think Sting doesn't give in, why not watch this little beauty:

Spoiler

[YOUTUBE]KkuWQl0GoUM[/YOUTUBE]​

Yeah, Hogan telling Sting that he isn't wrestling and he lays down for him. By way of a little charisma, like Kurt Angle oozes, Sting can be convinced to do anything that anyone wants them to do, such as the objective of this match where Kurt wants to convince Sting to give up. If Hogan can do it, then Kurt can surely do it... considering he has defeated Hogan via submission.

Vote Kurt Angle.

 

[Tastycles]

Sting. Angle has lost far more times by submission, and if we're going by latter day I Quit standards, then shit like weaponary comes into play. Anyone can use them, sure, but only one of them regularly lays waste to people with it. Fundamentally, Sting is just better than Angle though, and in his WCW pomp I can't see many people beating them. Angle has a lot of titles, and has had a lot of great matches, but I still can't see him as a real company carrier and the numbers are there to back that up. I don't think the stipulation offers either a particularly strong advantage, but Sting being better gives it to him.

 

[THE Madcap]

I'm guessing that when Angle made Sting tap out at Sacrifice in 2007 that was, what, an alternative dimension? So you're saying that before Angle put Sting in the ankle lock, a worm hole materialised in the ring. Angle, sensing this could be his only chance to ever make Sting directly tap out to the ankle lock, knocked Sting through this wormhole. Once in this alternative dimension, Sting was rendered vulnerable to the ankle lock (and lead turned into gold, men into woman, sheep into goats, and Kane into Luke Gallows) and tapped out.

Why, that's quite an absurd argument. I don't know why you'd even put it forward. You're all nuts. I think that it probably took place in this dimension.

"You must spread some reputation before giving it to Vintage Sam again"

Totally agree with this Sam. Not saying that my vote is tied up with Angle, because it isn't yet. However, as mentioned by Tenta, a lot of people are overlooking the other possible finishes for this match. Angle "could" win this match, by beating the living holy shit out of Sting. Especially seeing as Angle would most likely be the heel in this, this could be very possible.

Lets not forget, also, Angle's amateur background. If that doesn't equip him to triumph in a submission situation (if all we're going by is submissions), then I don't know what will.

This is an absolutely spectacular draw btw...

 

[Suneeboy]

What a great match, and a terrible predicament I am in.

I have to go with Sting because this is an "I Quit" match, and not necessarily a submission match. Sting has been through some insane wars over the years. Angle has been in some epic battles as well, but Sting was a legend already when Kurt Angle was just entering the business.

The "I Quit" stipulation is a little different than just submitting...Sting tapped out maybe a few times in his career, but he would never quit. If this match were to take place, Sting would definitely be a face, and Angle would probably be a heel...or at least that's how I would book it.

Sting wins in the best "I Quit" match the business has ever seen.

 

[Schoolboy-Chris]

Blah Blah Blah....Sucking Angles proverbial cock??

Its been proven time and time again. Stin is the ultimate performer. Strictly because he is better than Angle. Angle pisses his pants while Sting wins World titles.... by the time Angle won the olympics. Sting had already defeated the best in the business.

Who exactly proved time and time again that Sting is the ultimate performer? The time difference in which they wrestled has nothing to do with the argument, if we are taking this match on the basis that they are in their primes. And as for the claim that Sting is straight up better than Angle, I very much disagree with this, I think that Angle is the superior athlete, wrestler, mic worker and better in just about every way possible.

Ric Flair
Vader
Cactus Jack
Lex Luger
Nikita Koloff
Meng
Jake Roberts

Know what else they have in common? Not only have all of them, at some point, lost to Sting via submission, but none of them have ever been able to make Sting tap out. At all. Sting was always the resilient wrestler of WCW, and was extremely charismatic in his day, which I'll go with being from 1990 to about 1996. This was a time in which Sting never tapped. Not once. And as you saw in the above list, he faced some pretty tough mother fuckers, all out for his blood.

I really don't see how it is a big deal that none of the above names made Sting tap out, considering how few of them even regularly utilise a submission finisher. Are you really comparing Cactus Jack and Vader to Chris Benoit or Eddie Guerrero when it comes to technical and submission wrestling? Sting was resilient sure, but his opponents in WCW were mostly brawlers or power guys, and he never had to face someone like Angle. The more submission based wrestlers in WCW (with only a few exceptions) were on the undercard, and Sting had little or no interaction with these guys like Malenko or Saturn who would have stretched the life out of him. Angle during his WWF/E run was on top in a time when submission wrestling for the main event was much more common than in WCW. Tapping was much more commonplace in the main event in WWF than in WCW, and Angle proved his intelligence many times in getting around having to tap.

Angle is a good wrestler, but he also has a tendency to tap. A lot. Chris Benoit has his number on speed dial. Brock Lesnar's Brock Lock says hi, too. And The Rock's Sharpshooter, a move Angle is going to become very well acquainted with, is making a guest appearance. Angle is great, but I just can't see an ultra babyface Sting tapping out to anyobody.

Yes Angle tapped to his fair share of opponents, but more than that fair share tapped to him before or after. As I already said, Angle faced much more vicious and effective submissions than Sting, and this experience would serve him well in a match with Sting.

Also, if we are taking Angle to be the heel to Sting's face in this match then the issue arises of just how many more routes are left open to Angle. We have mostly been assuming that the match will end in submission, but who is to say that Angle doesn't have a surprise in store. Faces winning I Quit matches tend to do so by using submissions or beating their opponents badly enough to make them quit. Heels have won I Quit matches in more creative manners, as well as having the submission option left available for them.

Angle is an intelligent wrestler, and one who is able to think outside the box as far as strategy goes. Flair as a heel beat Foley by threatening Melina, who is to say that Angle could not do the same, using a member of Sting's family or a close friend? Triple H quit in his match against The Rock when Kane threatened to chokeslam Chyna too. Or he could take the Rock's route, and use a pre-recorded voice sample to win the match. Chavo Guerrero also beat face Rey Mysterio by simply beating him into quitting with a chair. Sting in his prime might simply have decided in a match against Angle, that he could not take such beating, and should quit now and fight another day. Angle has an intensity that I don't feel Sting could match, and this would ultimately take him to the victory.

Vote Angle

 

[D-Man]

Damn you, Sly... you really fucked up my thinking in this match.

The obvious choice is Kurt Angle, since he's a "submission specialist". But like others have pointed out, just because a wrestler can slap on submissions, doesn't necessarily mean their opponent would tap out.

Granted, Sting had never faced a more intense submission wrestler than Kurt Angle (off the top of my head... but I could be wrong) so it makes us think about whether a primed Angle could've made a primed Sting tap out.

I would vote for a man that is less likely to tap out over a man that is more likely to slap on more submissions. After all, Angle could put a billion ankle locks on Sting... but if Sting just refuses to tap out, it's only a matter of time before Sting gets the best of Angle.

I'm voting for Sting.