The Question of Divas and their lack of Characters

[Mr. TM]

Most people would argue that the divas are shit. They are plastic big titted, horrendous wrestlers who apparently need to ell every time they do a move. But you know, I watch wrestling regularly, and sometimes I can't tell you their names. And I think I know why.

Professional Wrestling is a form of entertainment that involves the development of characters. Characters. Characters. What are the Characters, or sometimes known as gimmicks of the divas? One sings shitily. One does the splits. One is manly. Not what I would call in depth characters.

The only redeeming character of the divas is Maryse. She has that Quebecois/French snooty character mixed with Paris Hilton. She could go a lot deeper into it I figure, but at the moment that is the best there is. And it is much needed.

So do Divas need characters. This is not a debate about the Divas' place in the WWE, it is just a discussion on if Divas do need a gimmick.

 

[HBK-aholic]

It couldn't hurt them, what could? The thing is, in order to develop a character you need to have air time, and quite a bit. Especially if they're trying to develop all the divas characters almost simultaneously. The WWE aren't going to give the divas that much time, because a minority of fans care about them. And of those that do, quite a few 'care' because they think the diva is hot. Therefore, they're not going to care about her talking or her development. It's a circle - no one cares, so they won't get the time to develop real characters, so no one will care.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

Well, the lack of characters in the division is one of the things that hinder the diva's from being as entertaining as the male's division. Having the girls go out there and parade around their bodies whilst playing either the face or the heel roll does not have a long duration in keeping the people interested, so the girls need to either do one of two things:

- Develop characters and tell stories in the ring
- Show off their wrestling skills

Since that there are diva's that really aren't wrestlers per se, the latter option is eliminated. Hence, the girls need to adopt characters. Since one half are already wrestlers who should have the ability to form their own persona's and the other half are basically model's where an aspect of their jobs is to create persona's and tell stories through posing, it can be easily pulled off. Having a look down the rosters, there are many girls who can definitely develop solid characters.

In saying this, the SmackDown division is starting to pick up on this. Every girl on that roster has been given the opportunity to expand in some fashion, albeit minuscule. You have Phoenix as the monster heel, Natalya as the cocky generational star, Michelle as the "cowardice when in trouble, relaxed and trash-talker when in control" heel with Layla as her counterpart and Mickie as the face of the division. These don't seem like much, but their encounters on the brand have started to become a lot more interesting with the little time they have had to develop. If given the chances to create legit characters, it could be a great touch for SD.

 

[Bernkastel]

The divas already have characters, that since of individuality that sets the apart from each other. If they didn't, there would be absolutely zero investment in any of their matches by the fans.

If this is a question concerning the lack of gimmicks in the Diva division well, the divas don't need gimmicks. They not only lack the proper exposure to be able to make the gimmicks work, but since the majority of the Divas have small scale matches only it would be a waste of time to put so much effort into a creative situation that the fans would probably only have a menial amount of interest in.

 

[jmt225]

WWE wrestlers lack characters, period. Not just their women performers.

However, since this is a thread about WWE "Divas" (God I hate that term), I'm actually of the opinion that women performers in professional wrestling don't need much character depth. Hell, honestly, if it were up to me they would all be valets anyway, and they would feed off the wrestler they valet's character.

But since women performers in the business are wrestlers today, I guess a few of them in WWE could use something to separate them from the rest of the bunch. There's absolutely nothing that separates Kelly Kelly from Michelle McCool, when you look at it.

But then you take a look at someone like Maryse, for example. Sure, she may be gorgeous and fit WWE's preference in how they want their "Divas" to look, but she's unique because she's different from every other woman performer in WWE in that she's French-Canadian and extremely arrogant. Something as simple as that separates her from every other woman performer in WWE, which definitely shows that for the most part, each "Diva" is the exact same thing in WWE: Fake boobs, with no character whatsoever, that can't wrestle for shit. And unfortunately, I think it's going to remain that way. Vince isn't a fan of characters today in general, and you can tell by how he's booked since Sunny arrived to WWE that he thinks the only criteria his female performers should meet is being good-looking (in his eyes, anyway) and ****ty.

 

[Bernkastel]

But since women performers in the business are wrestlers today, I guess a few of them in WWE could use something to separate them from the rest of the bunch. There's absolutely nothing that separates Kelly Kelly from Michelle McCool, when you look at it.

You're not serious are you? So according to you both Kelly and Michelle are pure, innocent, dedicated, and determined? The two are polar opposites when it comes to their characters.

I can already see the confusion beginning to churn within this thread. Character meaning personality traits, morals, and values that set one entity apart from another. The majority of the divas (the main ones, anyway) all have distinctive character traits.

Gimmicks, which by definition are merely over-the-top devices used to grab the audiences attention, examples being the immorality of the Undertaker, the flashy flamboyance of Shawn Michaels, the fragile psyche of Kane. These are devises that take the personalities and character traits of these entities and brings them to the next level.

The divas do not need, nor would benefit from gimmicks. Their feuds lack the interest of the fans to make such devices believable.

 

[jmt225]

You're not serious are you? So according to you both Kelly and Michelle are pure, innocent, dedicated, and determined? The two are polar opposites when it comes to their characters.

I was thinking of the babyface McCool when I said that, so yes... it was a mistake.

But seriously, what is the difference between say Kelly and let's say Mickie James' characters? Sure, Mickie can do more in the ring and is perhaps better on the microphone, but character wise... what's differentiates one from the other? All either do is come out, smile, wave, get beat up, do a little comeback, and either lose or win their match. They do nothing else. Their characters are themselves. The only difference between them is that James is in a ridiculous "fat" storyline right now, and being "fat" does not add to her character, at all. She's just a pretty woman wrestler, nothing more, just like Kelly Kelly is, and just like how Michelle McCool was when she was a babyface.

The divas do not need, nor would benefit from gimmicks. Their feuds lack the interest of the fans to make such devices believable.

See, I disagree. If we have to put up with them wrestling, I would like decent storylines to go with their shit matches, and that involves gimmicks for it to happen. The last good "Diva" storyline was Mickie James vs. Trish, and why was that good? Because Mickie had, of all things, a GIMMICK, a fucking character. Without that, the divas will do the same dumb shit week in and week out. Tag matches, rumble to determine number one contender, more tag matches, title match on Raw (hardly ever on pay-per-view), and that's it. How can we take them seriously if that's all they ever do?

 

[Bernkastel]

See, I disagree. If we have to put up with them wrestling, I would like decent storylines to go with their shit matches, and that involves gimmicks for it to happen. The last good "Diva" storyline was Mickie James vs. Trish, and why was that good? Because Mickie had, of all things, a GIMMICK, a fucking character. Without that, the divas will do the same dumb shit week in and week out. Tag matches, rumble to determine number one contender, more tag matches, title match on Raw (hardly ever on pay-per-view), and that's it. How can we take them seriously if that's all they ever do?

A gimmick IS NOT the character, it is a device that enhances the character traits and personality that are already present. All of the popular Divas that compete for the titles week in and week out all have distinguishable character and personality traits that define who they are.

The minor ones do not because they aren't important enough to the storyline, they only exist to aid the main characters.

Using Kelly is hardly a great example considering that she rarely gets any screen time and is a minor character. Mickie is the archtype face character, similar to John Cena. Many of the faces on the bottom of the card are going to have similar personality and character traits as she does.

For example, the Mickie/ Michelle storyline, Mickie is the main protagonist while Michelle is the main antagonist. Any allies either woman recruits to their side will have the same kind of traits they do.

The only Diva with a gimmick is Maryse, and the only reason why creative strapped her with it is because of the success of the gimmick in the past.

Gimmick's take allot of time and effort to build up, but they require not only the interest of the fans but also the belief that the illusion that the gimmick presents is real. The diva division as a whole is barely popular enough to successfully control one diva with a gimmick. If creative tried to saddle others with different gimmicks it would fail, primarily due to the lack of interest in the division.

 

[Tastycles]

I think the diva division is fine, in the main, to be honest. There are discernible characters within Michelle McCool (bully), Layla El (lacky), Jillian Hall (annoying) etc. etc. The problem, if you want to see it as that, exists within Gail Kim primarily and maybe a couple of the other faces. We don't know anything about them. All the diva division needs to do is to spread the time more evenly. Michelle McCool and Jillian Hall are talking on TV every week, all they should do is give the faces a little time to character develop before the matches in future.

 

[Bernkastel]

The problem, if you want to see it as that, exists within Gail Kim primarily and maybe a couple of the other faces. We don't know anything about them.

But why should we care to know anything about them? They aren't the main focus of their storylines, they are the minor characters. Besides many main characters either evolve their traits over time, or the character's traits become more like the actors that play them. Doing this allows for a recycling of traits that can be utilized by divas that go from minor characters to main characters

 

[Tastycles]

To be honest, I'm with you, I don't see it as a problem, but people do. The fact of the matter is is that the entire divas division has one feud ongoing at a time, and probably what they should do is focus on that and the characters within that, which is what they do. The issue that others perceive, and I suppose I relate to is the fact that Jillian Hall is always an ancillary figure, but her character is well rounded and developed, whereas Kim,who features as often in the ring, has zero character depth.

 

[MY NUTZ ON YOUR ACE]

The Diva's arent popular (when they wrestle) because the WWE doesn't want them to be. If they were given interesting storylines that were well thought out and the Divas all were built up appropriately then they could be entertaining without taking their clothes off. I remember a few years ago I think Mickie James and Trish Stratus had a very interesting feud that people enjoyed and reacted to and had some good matches too. They are never going to draw as much as your biggest stars but they may help WWE bring in a more female audience and helps further diverisfy their product.

 

[CHAOS]

I totally agree that there is a desperate lack of character in most WWE Divas currently. My favourite divas are Maryse, because she's actually got character as mentioned by someone earlier in the thread. Also, Beth Phoenix, although she hasn't done a lot lately we seen when she was with Santino that she can be very entertaining. Natalya is my other choice because although she hasn't really got a character, she is the best female technical wreslter in the world at the moment and possibly ever.

I've also been enjoying the Michelle/Layla/Mickie angle recently, I wasn't to keen on Michelle prior to this feud but she's really stepped up and shown what she can do with a meaningful feud and a bit of mic time. The same could be said of Layla, I think she has shown a lot of potential recently even though she is kind of a third wheel to this feud. Layla is your typical devious heel diva which I like, she isn't too bad in the ring and most importantly, SHE GOT BOOTY!!!!

 

[Dagger Dias]

Professional Wrestling is a form of entertainment that involves the development of characters. Characters. Characters. What are the Characters, or sometimes known as gimmicks of the divas? One sings shitily. One does the splits. One is manly. Not what I would call in depth characters.

The only redeeming character of the divas is Maryse. She has that Quebecois/French snooty character mixed with Paris Hilton. She could go a lot deeper into it I figure, but at the moment that is the best there is. And it is much needed.

So do Divas need characters. This is not a debate about the Divas' place in the WWE, it is just a discussion on if Divas do need a gimmick.

Giving entire "gimmicks" to the divas could be both a good and a bad thing. Sure it would set the apart from one another more, but a bad gimmick can follow someone forever. Look at Jillian Hall and her "awful singer" gimmick. She will never be taken seriously because of that gimmick. What might work better are if they find "personality traits" that work for them, that they are good at emphasizing. Maryse or Michelle being full of themselves, Beth being strong, Kelly always being happy, Mickie being determined.... technically stuff like this is already being used by the divas, and I do think it wouldn't hurt to develop these personas more.... but they don't need full gimmicks because I have a feeling most fans would stop taking them seriously, like they did with Jillian when she started her singer gimmick.

 

[blackrose1013]

I honestly think the Diva division does need an injection of "flash" into its system. I am not saying go full blown gimmick on them just a little more personality then what they have.Now some of the Divas may need a gimmick to remove the fact they can't wrestle. Now, wrestlers like Beth, Maryse and Natalya do not really need the boost they are good in their current roles. Michelle and Mickie are too. My main focus would be on the face wrestlers and younger Divas. Let them develop a distinct character, and for the sake of the division let someone else hold the titles besides Melina, Mickie James, Maryse and Beth. Gail Kim for one, deserves a title run.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I want to give WWE credit as they have seemingly been listening to a lot of feedback from the Internet as of late. This seems to be the latest thing WWE is concentrating on, with giving Divas mic time.

Tonight, we saw Maryse get on the mic and get into a brawl with Kelly Kelly at ringside. And we actually heard Kelly Kelly talk (ring announce) which is a rarity as well. Just allowing the Divas to actually speak to allow their voices to be heard is an excellent way to make a simple connection with the audience.

Also, on this same show, we saw an angle done between Eve and Chris Masters, with Masters trying to impress Eve ... and they seemed to make a good couple. This may make a very good pairing to follow in the future. Again, good job WWE.

And on ECW this past week, we also saw Rosa Mendes get some mic time with Zack Ryder. And they are starting a love interest.

So WWE seems to be starting the process of giving some character to the Divas, and I can't take my hat enough enough to them. And I seriously hope they continue this process.

"If you want the fans to care about wrestling matches, they have to first care about the talent. And the matches themselves WILL NOT get talent over with the audience."

That is Lord Sidious' #1 rule of Creative, which is contrary to the ROH-bot edict that "Talent should be able to get over with the fans SOLELY based on match quality. Any fans who don't enjoy talent based solely on in-ring skills aren't considered REAL WRESTLING FANS!"

The more Vince gets away from this terrible influence on his product these past 2 years or so, the more the casual fanbase will start enjoying his product again. I know I am.

So with:

- Investing in the Midcard
- Using the Midcard titles to get people over and prepped for future Main Event pushes
- Providing opportunity for fresh people to enter the Main Event
- Allowing the Divas some mic time and personalities to connect with the audience


WWE is really starting to pull itself out of this terrible slump they've been in for the past several years. Vince is waking up.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Sidious is right. More people will care about the divas if they give us a reason to. Trish did long ago and she's a legend as far as divas are concerned. Kelly could be the next Trish, I've said before and I'll say it again. She and Eve are the future of the division because they are both beautiful AND talented.... but more divas need to give us reasons to care about their character.

Maryse's interaction with Kelly tonight was great and I would REALLY enjoy a long feud between these two some time. I didn't care for the Eve and Masters idea much, but it may work out good for them to work together on Raw a bit.

"If you want the fans to care about wrestling matches, they have to first care about the talent. And the matches themselves WILL NOT get talent over with the audience."

100% correct. There are fans out there who want the wrestlers to prove to them why the fans should care about them at all. Cool spots in the ring and great wrestling ability can only get one so far. They should be entertaining on the mic and MUST be able to connect with their fans as well.

Honestly, the divas are probably the best they have been since Trish left. I hope things will turn around for them.... and they can, but first more of them need to show us fans why we should be cheering for them or not because otherwise we simply don't care.