The Phantom Menace debacle.

[¡Roján!]

From being labelled a ''hate crime'' to a ''cinematic abortion'', The Phantom Menace has had its fair share of criticism. But, now, after re-watching it in 3D, I can't help but shake the niggling feeling that maybe, just maybe, it isn't as bad as what I thought it was.

I like to think of the Phantom Menace as an origin movie of sorts. It's the first movie where we are let into the Jedi universe, and we learn about the midochlorians, the Jedi order and one of the more important aspects of the saga, the politics. In that sense, the movie works but, including it in the trilogy just didn't (and still doesn't) make much sense. The movie sort of stands alone from the rest of the saga. It doesn't fit in.

The rest of the critisicm from the Phantom Menace came from its bad dialogue and awful characters and casting. I can agree with this somewhat as the dialogue can get corny and it does seem a little dumbed down. The characters are a little annoying at times (I'm looking at you Jar-jar and young Annie!) and their development was a little lazy. Most Phantom Menace fans justify this as it trying to appeal to a new generation. I really don't buy that, at all. I mean, Qui-Gonn (Liam Neeson) could and should have had a bigger impact in the story arch, but after watching the whole saga top to bottom, I wonder whether his inclusion was necessary.

But, do these negatives outweigh the postives of the movie?

The Phantom Menace features the second best action sequence in any of the Star Wars movies, and was the first of its kind. The Vader vs. Luke fight sequence is all well and good for the emotion and drama junkies, the last fight sequence in this movie does get your heart pumping. The pod racing scenes are very fun to watch and seeing Shmi and Anakin get separated from each is very heartbreaking.

Finally, DARTH FREAKIN' MAUL! How can you not like him? His emotionless face, no matter what the circumstances and how he never talks once in the movie somehow make him one of the most bad ass villains in cinematic history. No matter how tedious the build-up to the end was, the moment when Darth Maul whipped out his double lightsaber, everyone, regardless of age, marked the fuck out. It's one of my favourite moments in cinema, and the score by John Williams to accompany the Qui-Gonn and Obi Wan vs. Maul fight is masterful too.

So, now my questions to you:
Do you really think that The Phantom Menace is that bad?
Did it fall victim to everyone's high expectations?
Do you think the movie was necessary, per se, in the saga?
And finally, what was George Lucas smoking when he created Jar-Jar?

 

[Dagger Dias]

Phantom Menace is definitely my least favorite Star Wars film. Honestly, the only reason it did so well financially was the fact that a new film in the Star Wars saga was going to be released in theaters. People likely did have expectations that it could not possibly live up to. I remember going to watch it with a few guys from school when it came out. We all left thinking it was kinda cool but that it just wasn't anything near the older films.

Even though it sucks in comparison to the other Star Wars movies, it was still necessary in terms of storytelling. It showed the beginning of Anakin's story and wasn't as bad as some people might have you think. I've watched again as an adult and still think it sucks. The Darth Maul lightsaber fight against Obi Wan is the only redeeming part of the movie to me. It's worth putting up with to see that again. Other than that, I don't really like it. I could have done without a lot of the other scenes which were a bit boring. It's necessary though in the grand scheme of things because there's only so much they can tell in the floating text or in dialogue of other films. Boring/bad or not, the first film is needed in the series.

And finally, what was George Lucas smoking when he created Jar-Jar?

"I have this amazing world full of all sorts of cool characters and interesting creatures. It can't be flawless though. I have to introduce something that sucks. I could bring in a character in the upcoming film that will drive everyone who watches it insane. He should only have one or two lines though and then be killed off. No, wait! I could really mess with the fanboys if I make this incredibly annoying character into a character who actually ends up being important! That will be so funny!"

And they named him Jar-Jar.

 

[GrandSword]

Due to being very disapointed I have only watched this twice, even though being a huge SW fan. For the record OP, I'm sure Darth Maul talks at least once. But on to the topic...

You have mentioned the corny dialogue, the poor characters and casting. And I really agree with the development of characters and situations being very lazy...

A big problem with PM and the new triology is the holes in the storyline and how they effected things overall, moving to the original and far superior trilogy.

Why was Qui Gon created? Midiclorians (sp?) to explain the force?? The droids, how could they have posibly be part of the story to the extent they were?? Anakin built C-3PO WTF!? Obi Wan says that when he first met Anakin he was already a great pilot and had a way with the force... teh fact that it was pod racing and Anakin was a 5 year old boy sucked for me.. also Padme being older than him, being the Queen and then not... also sucked...

The story for me was just all over the place and an excuse to design all these weird new creatures although never been sighted in the Star Wars universe before because they have all this CGI at their disposal was a do because we can, not for what's good for the story and continuity.

Also why are all the ships more futuristic twenty years earlier? Sorry fan boys the Clone War, dystopian future thingy excuse doesn't cut it!

In any case lucas should have sat down and really thought about what he was doing and it seemed like he had an age to do it, and then some higher up told him he was running out of time and cracked out a crap script with crap dialogue just to meet deadlines.

It was full of racist steroetypes, like Trade federation Gunroy, and their robots were as intimidating as a shoebox. And well, the Phantom Menace is just a shit title too! That's why it was mainly advertised as Episode 1 on it's original release. The Lightsaber duel was awesome, but just like in A New hope, why couldn't have Maul escaped some how to fight another day? Think of the merch George!!!

The movie was necessary from a starting point, but the stuff that was in it was far from that. From a huge fan's perspective, very disappointing, the only plus is the underlying storyline of Palpatine moving towards gaining power and the lightsaber duel that is one of the best fight scenes not just in Star Wars but in cinema...

 

[Shocky]

Do you really think that The Phantom Menace is that bad?
No, not at all. The hate that this movie gets is pure bullshit. Somewhere between 1983 and 1999, Star Wars fanboys turned the franchise into something it wasn't, a good movie series. Star Wars is a B Movie series based on 1950's serials. Nothing more, nothing less. They are not masterpieces, they are fucking awesome popcorn movies. If you're looking for the meaning of life from George Lucas, you deserved to be disappointed.



Did it fall victim to everyone's high expectations?

I touched on this before, yes. This movie had 16 years of build up, and there was no way possible it was going to live up to what the Original Trilogy was in the minds of most people. I think the internet also has a big factor in the Lucas hate going on. I watched this movie about a dozen times or so in the first couple years it came out. It wasn't until the first spoilers for Episode II came out that I realized how much this movie was hated by the Star Wars fans that should have loved the movie.

Do you think the movie was necessary, per se, in the saga?

Yes. While I personally think he should have gone with an older Anakin, I get what he was doing. The Phantom Menace did feel like it lacked a lot of material and Lucas tried to put a ton of filler into it. If he would have merged Phantom Menace with parts of Attack of the Clones, the job could have been done a little better. Revenge of the Sith felt spliced together and really had enough material to be two films.

When you look at the Star Wars Saga as a whole, it's a 13 hour plus movie. Setting aside two hours to flesh out the origin of the main characters, and set up the politics of this universe, was not to much to ask. It was impatient fanboys with the attention span of a gnat that didn't like this. I actually was intrigued by the political portion of the movie, as well as the workings of the Jedi Order. It wasn't like I thought it would be, which goes back to the fanboys having 16 years to create their own version of what this movie should have been.

And finally, what was George Lucas smoking when he created Jar-Jar?
Meh, I hate Jar Jar Binks, but it worked. I saw the movie in 3-D and was amazed by how much the little kids in the crowd ate him up. Even older people (seniors I assume taking their grandkids), were cracking up at Jar Jar. Jar Jar drives me crazy, but ask a lot of people around the age of 18 or younger, and I think you'll get a more positive reaction from them.

I'm apart of the age group that grew up with the Ewoks in Return of the Jedi, and I love them. You ask my older brother, and people that age will tell you that "Those Damn Teddy Bears ruined the franchise, rabble rabble." Different strokes for different folks. Jar Jar is fine. He's a light hearted, annoying character, but ultimately serves a larger purpose in the grand scheme of things

And don't even get me started about the supposed racism in the Phantom Menace. Give me a fucking break and go get a life you fucking idiots.

 

[Davi323]

Do you really think that The Phantom Menace is that bad?

Bad how? Bad in comparison to the other 5 Star Wars movies, or bad in comparison to some of the schlock that ends up in movie theaters? For me, it's easily my least favorite Star Wars film...but it's still worlds better than piece of shit movies like Twilight. If I am comparing it only to the other Star Wars movies, yea, it's pretty bad. But if I compare it to ALL of the sci-fi fantasy movies that have come out over the last 35 years since Star Wars was released, it's not bad at all. It's not a great movie, but it's not the complete trash that some make it out to be...including myself. I gotta call myself out on that, I do joke about The Phantom Menace a lot, but a lot of it is trumped up.

Did it fall victim to everyone's high expectations?

Yes. The worst thing in the world is for a movie to fail to live up to it's hype, and The Phantom Menace was perhaps the single most hyped movie of all time. As Shocky said, no way it could possibly have lived up to that.

Do you think the movie was necessary, per se, in the saga?

As part of a continuous 6 episode story? No. I would have preferred starting Anakin out older, perhaps even as a Jedi Padawan already. I find myself agreeing with Rojan, It doesn't really fit in with the rest of them. If we look at it from the Jedi's perspective, The OT is about Luke Skywalker, starting at age 19, and ending at about age 25. Lucas loved making obvious parallels between the trilogies, it would make sense that if the OT is about Luke 19-25, then the PT should be about Anakin 19-25. Instead, we get Anakin age 9, wait 10 years or so with nothing, then immediately jump to 22-25ish. The time gap between TPM and AOTC kinda ruins the flow of the story. The gap between the PT and OT is necessary to age the characters properly to fit in with the OT, and that is perfectly reasonable. But to break up the PT itself like that, I dunno...just doesn't work for me. All of the Intro to the Jedi 101 stuff could have been done in a time frame more closely compacted. In fact, just set The Phantom Menace a few years later, where Anakin is 16 or something, and it works a lot better. Instead of Anakin looking like a whiny little brat, he could have been a teenager struggling with his fate as a slave, showing glimpses of the man he would become.

And finally, what was George Lucas smoking when he created Jar-Jar?

Good question. I don't care if he was supposedly racist or not...he was just stupid.

 

[CH David]

Do you really think that The Phantom Menace is that bad?

Nope. It's a fun movie with a lot of fun action. Then again, I watched it as a 10 year old and ate it up like my favorite food. This is gonna sound so dumb, but I used to imitate the final duel with my toy lightsabers while watching it. Ate it up and loved it. Ewan McGregor was awesome as Obi-Wan for me.

Did it fall victim to everyone's high expectations?

Of course it did. Just like wrestling it got hyped like nobody's business and then when it didn't live up to expectations people got upset. Doesn't mean it's bad.

Do you think the movie was necessary, per se, in the saga?

A prequel trilogy wasn't necessary for the saga in my opinion, but I certainly won't complain about it. Compared to Shocky and Davi I actually didn't mind that he was nine when he was freed. Kids get attached to their parents, and it grows distant as a teen. Seeing him taken from his mother is jarring. I'm close to my mom so it has more of an effect with me. If he were a teen he likely wouldn't have been so upset or sad since most teens are rebelious and looking for a way out. Shit look at Anakin in Attack of the Clones. He was an ass that wouldn't listen to Obi-Wan.

But the way it was done I thought was fine. I suppose you could have made Anakin older and paralled shit that way and the rest of the movie could have been the same.

And finally, what was George Lucas smoking when he created Jar-Jar?[/QUOTE]

Meh. He was a moron but it's fine. Kids ate him up. There are always shitty characters in sequels.

 

[DirtyD79]

Do you really think that The Phantom Menace is that bad?
Hell No, not at all. I really liked it.

Did it fall victim to everyone's high expectations?
That and a pretty much unpleasable fanbase. Next to wrestling, Star Wars has the most unpleasable fans in the history of fandom. Nothing Lucas could have done would be enough to please the whiny overentitled shitstains.

Do you think the movie was necessary, per se, in the saga? Yes considering that it explains where Anakin came from and how Palpatine came to power. The prequels were about what led up to the original trilogy.

And finally, what was George Lucas smoking when he created Jar-Jar? The same thing he was when he made C3PO and R2D2. Jar Jar was comedy relief. Quite honestly I can stand his Meesa Meesa schtick a lot more than I can stand Chewbacca's constant obnoxious screeching and moaning.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

Do you really think that The Phantom Menace is that bad?

No. Not at all. In fact, you could easily make an argument for Attack Of The Clones being the worst Star Wars film in the entire saga.

The Phantom Menace was a pretty solid Star Wars film. The final lightsaber duel was full of excitement and thrills, I loved the podracing, and you get to see the innocent side of a young Darth Vader in this film. Also, Star Wars fans were introduced to one of the most deadly Sith Lords in the entire saga. Darth Maul was the silent and menacing bad ass, who had this unbelievable frightening look, and the double-bladed lightsaber was the icing on the cake.

Did it fall victim to everyone's high expectations?

Of course it did. The die hard Star Wars fanatics had the pleasure of watching A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return Of The Jedi over and over again for sixteen years. They were expecting some epic masterpiece in 1999, and when they didn't get it, they went nuts. The harsh criticisms for this film is a prime example of die hard fans overreacting in the worst way.

Do you think the movie was necessary, per se, in the saga?

Definitely. You get to see the very early stages of Anakin Skywalker's life, and Palpatine's rise to power. Also, Obi-Wan is still an apprentice in this film, but you get to see him grow during the relationship with his master, Qui-Gon Jinn, and you get to see his rise to the rank of Jedi Kinght. Obi-Wan would become a mentor for Luke in Episodes 4-6, and you can see where he gained some of his wisdom from in this film.

And finally, what was George Lucas smoking when he created Jar-Jar?

Jar-Jar annoyed the fuck out of me, when I first saw this film years ago. He still bothered me a little bit, when I saw this film in 3D the other day, but I've almost become numb to him over the years, and I won't let him ruin this film for me. C-3P0 was a pompous douche, but he was still someone, who you could laugh at. I can tolerate the Ewoks, and Chewbacca never bothered me, but Jar-Jar is always so over the top in Episode I, and his whacky antics don't make me laugh at all.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Do you really think that The Phantom Menace is that bad?

I gave this movie another shot last week and to tell you the truth, yeah I still think the movie is pretty bad, definitely the worst of the Star Wars movies in my opinion. I have 2 big issues with this movie:

1) Special Effects took priority over storytelling.
2) It felt like they were just killing time until Episode 3.

I just didn't care about anything happening in this movie, even the scrolling text was boring. Jar Jar had way too much time in the movie, I know he's supposed to be comedic relief but I hated him when I was 12 just as I hate him today, he was just a bumbling jackass for 2 hours. You can say that the movie needed to lay the groundwork and I understand that but I feel it didn't need to start here. No one cared about Anakin as a little boy, Qui Gon was boring, Obi Wan was OK, Jar Jar was ridiculous and Darth Maul was easily forgettable (just like the movie in general).

All in all The Phantom Menace I could do without, I tried to give it a fair chance, not compare it to previous Star Wars films but even as its own movie I think it sucked.

Did it fall victim to everyone's high expectations?

In a way it did, I mean it was the 1st Star Wars movie in almost 20 years and I don't need to talk about how big Star Wars became. I do feel people expected way too much when it first came out but like I said previously even as its own movie it falls short. It may have been overhyped but it still doesn't change it was a bad movie.

Do you think the movie was necessary, per se, in the saga?

Not at all, frankly I always thought that they could have started in Episode 2 and picked up from there. The whole saga was about the story of Darth Vader but you didn't need to see him as a little boy pod racing. People wanted to see Anakin the great Jedi turn into Darth Vader, that's what we needed to see, we didn't need to see him as a little slave kid.

Everything in Episode 1 was unnecessary, the battles, the light saber battle, Obi Wan as a patawan, Darth Vader, Qui Gon, everything! It was a waste of time, you could have wrapped up everything you needed to know in 5 minutes from that movie.

And finally, what was George Lucas smoking when he created Jar-Jar?

I think he was just trying to use him as comedic relief but failed miserably. He wasn't comedic relief, he was just annoying and turned you off from watching the movie. As Robert Downey Jr. said in Tropic Thunder it doesn't work when you go full ******, Jar-Jar was full ******.