The ECW Region: General Discussion

Discussion in 'ECW Region' started by Shocky, Feb 20, 2009.

  1. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    You're 100% spot on. Michaels was a favorite, and even would have been in TNA! He got a shitty draw, and I feel bad for him, because I am a fan.

    Vader won the TNA region last year en route to the Final Four, and dispatched Flair, Austin, and RVD in the process. Now he's actually in a region that plays to his strengths. It's not gonna be pretty for ANYONE in this bracket to get past the Mastadon, and I am glad you recognize that.

    There are only two men I am concerned about being placed in this region who could take Vader down, and I won't mention them until they are announced.
     
    #26
  2. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    My first thoughts would have been Foley and Sabu, but Foley is in a different region. The more I think of it, Sabu's hardcore antics may not have been enough to go over Vader either. His moves were high impact, but not nearly enough to take Vader down.

    I don't see a submission specialist beating him until the final 3 rounds, because that's when endurance becomes a factor, and they'd need the advantage of him already wrestling that night.

    I'm intrigued to see your guesses as to who could beat him in ECW.
     
    #27
  3. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    I don't know how I missed this at first, but if it all falls the way it seems, Vader would be going over Austin, and Edge would be taking out HBK.

    This sets up a Vader v. Edge final for this region. The discussion would be amazing, and I'd die to see how the vote turns out. Would the people voting for the wrestler who would truly win ovecome the people voting for their favorite wrestler?

    I'd predict thread of the year, if only because it'd be IC25 and Will going head to head, and it wouldn't even be the final 4.
     
    #28
  4. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Rear Naked Bloke

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    This region could be interesting if we get my boy Benoit up in here. Otherwise, guys like Taz (shit, think I forgot to put him on my list) and Bigelow suddenly have a legitimate chance of taking out the big guns. I think this will be Michaels' least successful tournament yet, if you discount The Rockers getting bitch slapped.
     
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  5. DJ

    DJ I've wrestled alot of countries

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    People are forgetting Michaels has had his fair share of "hardcore" matches. Anyone remember at Wrestlemania where he kicked McMahon's ass? Anyone remember the 3 stages of hell with Triple H? And most importantly does anyone remember Michaels facing Triple H in the brutal unsanctioned match? Michaels has had his fair share of gimmick matches over the years and I'm sure he can hold his own in the ECW Region.
     
    #30
  6. ANGLE FAN

    ANGLE FAN Dark Match Winner

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    Stone Cold has got the luck favouring him. There is no one except Vader who can give him a fight under ECW rules. The rare few wrestlers who could match up to him in ECW arena have drawn to other regions.

    VADER simply does not loose in extreme environment until the ECW finals to the man who trusts no body and fears no one .

    EDGE will use the rules to his advantage and will beat anyone who comes in his way in the initial round quite easily unless it is someone who has a massive experience advantage of wrestling in the ECW arena and is hugely over with ECW fans (eg TAZZ or RVD). EDGEs story will end when he comes up against AUSTIN or VADER

    HBK will find going difficult here than if he was drawn in any other region. He can potentially go past edge or vader depending on gimmick but no way in hell he beats Austin ( unless he draws three stages of hell with ladder, iron man and submission match being three stipulations)

    PREDICTION- STONE COLD defeats vader to win the ECW finals
     
    #31
  7. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    We still have a lot of names to go. He got a lucky draw by landing in ECW, but there's a long way to go before getting to the gimmick matches.

    He may not fear Vader, but he'll still want to avoid Big Van. Austin's pride may be his downfall. Just like he blacked out to the Sharpshooter, he won't give up until Vader has him broken in half. He'll put up a hell of a fight, but I don't think he'll win.

    Edge would've done fine in WWE or WCW, but he also got an added boost by drawing ECW. His love of gimmick matches will serve him well through the first few rounds, and then in to the actual gimmick matches. Depending on who he faces, he can get into the final rounds easily, or he could find a reason to update his will. Vader still goes over Edge, and Austin may, if he gets the right gimmick match.

    IF he makes it to the gimmick matches, there's no way he gets past Edge or Vader. Even with Sweet Chin Music, there's no combatting their offenses, and their history in hardcore matches. Michaels can hold his own, but the only way he gets past either of them, is if the "fan" vote comes out in full force, and not the vote for who would win the match.

    I agree this will be the final, but Vader should go over, and land himself in the final 4. Considering this is the ECW bracket, I wouldn't be upset if Austin won though.
     
    #32
  8. ANGLE FAN

    ANGLE FAN Dark Match Winner

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    The possibility of austin blacking out is small as VADER isnt known to be a submission specialist.
     
    #33
  9. ANGLE FAN

    ANGLE FAN Dark Match Winner

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    How paradoxical it is that debate over who will win the FINAL match in the ECW region has started even before the first match opponents have been revealed.

    Maybe the prospect of having such a match that everyone would have loved to see had it actually happened is the catalyst to make this tournament memorable and get debates going.
     
    #34
  10. The Todd

    The Todd Championship Contender

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    Granted I do not know much about Vader, but I WILL research him, and definitely watch that video of him against Cactus Jack posted earlier before the tournament begins.

    As for the other three, Stone Cold is the best 'fighter' I can remember. Giving him weapons just enhances his chances. Not many could survive long in an extreme environment with him.

    With Edge, he can cheat his way to a match anywhere. hardcore rules means a number of people could help him cheat his way to victory. And nothing can stop him giving a conchairto.

    HBK is not as well known for his hardcore skills as the others, but he can't half handle himself. He is famed for not being put away easily. He can definitely handle himself in this environment.

    Going to be hard to look beyond Stone Cold though.
     
    #35
  11. TheOneBigWill

    TheOneBigWill [This Space for Rent]

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    If there is one thing I've learned, it's to never discount the abilities of Shawn Michaels. The guy can go, and finds ways to hang around longer than most give him credit for.

    You talk about how this is the region that defines guys like Austin and Vader, but you're forgetting one very important issue that is Shawn Michaels, to a Tee.. and that's him being put in the underdog role. Almost every time that happens, he finds a way to overcome the odds.

    He did it throughout his career. Shit, he came back from a back injury to defeat Triple H. in one of the greatest Unsanctioned brawls of all-time. DO NOT discount Shawn Michaels, or you'll be watching him walk all over your guy.

    I understand exactly what you're saying, and I agree whole-heartedly. This is without question Vader's best region, because he's a brawler. He's a hard hitting, massive monster that will over power you to death.

    But the one thing I'm counting on, is an Edge/Vader match-up, which to me will always favor Edge more. Why? Simple..

    Edge doesn't go toe to toe with you. He understands he isn't going to overpower many people, so he out-thinks them. And Vader, no offense, is a moron. Vader is a fighter, not a thinker. That is his weakness.. and Edge's greatest strength counteracts that weakness.

    Edge finds ways to go around the positives, and hit the negatives. Vader will come at you with full force and power, and as a result, sooner or later will tire and wear down. The only question is.. can Edge withstand the power attacks that Vader would lay down, if he got his hands on him.

    In a hardcore setting, my guess is Vader won't be touching Edge long enough to do much, before Edge can grab something nearby and knock him off.

    Edge should win that battle 9 times outta 10, because he'll out-think and wait-out the monster.

    Furthermore, you go into detail about how Edge barely went over a retired Foley, yet Vader defeated him in his prime. Well, Edge went over Vader once upon a time too.. so either your boy got weak, or Edge was just better.

    I think fortune favors Vader. You backing him doesn't hurt either. ;) But I'm hoping people look far beyond who backs who, and uses their own brains.

    I think you're being naive if you don't consider either Shawn Michaels, or Edge to be tough match-ups for Steve Austin.

    Because Shawn Michaels is an overall great high-flyer and mat wrestler, you often want to overlook his ability to stay in a brawl. But yet he can, and he will.

    Edge, as I stated above, isn't stupid enough to go toe to toe with someone who can out brawl him. But he will find ways to use him mind, and right now.. Edge is the best guy named thus far, who can out-think anyone else in this region.

    Austin doesn't think, like Vader, he just goes all out in hope that he can end it early. That will be his downfall.

    I'm pretty sure Vader has lost extreme battles before. Just because he's built like a tank, doesn't mean he is unstoppable. The best way to come to a fight, isn't with mass, it's with ability and logic.

    The fans shouldn't play into effect until the final stages of this region's tournament rounds.

    And the only thing I fear about Edge losing to Austin or Vader, is by receiving votes against him by people too naive and unwilling to believe Edge can out-think his opponent's and do what he does best. Find the Ultimate Opportunity to win.

    It's like I said before, everyone is instantly wanting to discount Shawn Michaels. You should NEVER do that, as he can go in this setting. Just because he didn't make a living out of it, doesn't mean he can't.
     
    #36
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  12. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    Will, your love for Edge is admirable, but you're putting Edge over Vader based off of the ability to think over the ability to brawl. Consider that. Yes, he's a great opportunist, but thought will only bail you out of so many situations.

    And I can negate Edge's "thinking" advantage by playing The Race Card.

    No, not THAT race card...the Harley Race card. Harley Race made it possible for "thinking heels" like Edge to exist. In his prime, Vader was managed by Race, and unless Vader FACES Race in this tournament, I am damn sure taking that into account.
     
    #37
  13. CENAtion

    CENAtion WrestleZone Tourn. Prediction Champ

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    I think one thing that has yet to be talked about is the home field advantage, and the ECW Arena gives more of an advantage than any other venue in this tournament. In a Austin vs. Vadar match up, Stone Cold is going to have that place behind him and when he gets down he will have the crowd to motivate him to get himself bakc up.

    Vadar against any pure technician in an ECW envirnment means bad news for that guy. But a guy like Austin who can brawl with anyone in the world serves well against Vadar in my opinion. And we have all seen that Austin has no compassion for anyone, so he will repeatedly bash you with a chair, and if you piss him off enough he will get a lift and put you in a car and drop you twenty plus feet, just ask HHH.

    Strenght....Vadar
    Speed...Austin slightly
    Technically....Austin
    Submission skills...Austin
    Brawling...Push
    Hardcore...Push
    ECW Envirnment...Austin

    Theres no question this one is gonna be a war when and if it happens. I just believe this is the year of the RattleSnake.
     
    #38
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  14. TheOneBigWill

    TheOneBigWill [This Space for Rent]

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    I will clearly admit my love for Edge can at times cloud my judgment over the situation, but too many people counter-act that by not giving him the credit he's due anyways.

    Edge will use his brains and out think anyone, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability to brawl with the best of them. Yes, he fought an "out of his prime" Mick Foley, but the fact is.. you don't exactly have to be in your prime, to make weapons hurt the same. And Edge withstood the attacks of barbwire ripping his skin, and the overall barbaric environment.

    So when you combined the ability to out-think your opponent, mixed with the endurance to withstand pain, and dish out some yourself, how is Edge not a bigger favorite than the power-heavy Vader?
     
    #39
  15. ANGLE FAN

    ANGLE FAN Dark Match Winner

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    tough matchups -------surely, agreed 100%
    but AUSTIN loosing-----HIGHLY IMPROBABLE in my opinion
     
    #40
  16. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    I refuse to play the "clouded judgement" card on you. Don't worry. Because you could just as easily say the same with me and Vader. So we're even there. Fair is fair.

    I don't give Edge a world of credit in a tournament like this yet because of where he is in his career. We are looking at a Hall Of Famer, no doubt. Maybe I don't give as much love to active wrestlers. Edge will get a lot of love from me in many cases.

    No, you don't have to be in your prime to make a weapon hurt. You have to be in your prime to withstand it, and Foley withstood it almost as much as Edge did. But in an Edge vs Vader match, the Foley factor favors Vader, because he destroyed Cactus Jack, in his prime, at his sadistic best.

    Edge's brains are negated by Harley Race. And even if Race wasn't there, what sort of master plan will Edge have that can put Vader down in a Hardcore environment? Vader has been in more hardcore style matches than Edge has, and has withstood a shitload more than Edge has.

    And you called Vader "power heavy?" Well no shit, but he's no one-trick pony. He is as agile as Edge has ever been, as quick as Edge has ever been, and 3x stronger and meaner than Edge has ever been.

    Dude, pardon the pun, but in ECW, Vader has "The Edge."
     
    #41
  17. CENAtion

    CENAtion WrestleZone Tourn. Prediction Champ

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    I can tell already that this is going to be the thread out of the four Regions that is going to get the most posts.

    You have IC backing Vadar, Will backing Edge, and myself backing Stone Cold. Clearly we all think our guy is the favorite in this region and we all do have valid points to why they should be the favorite. This region suits all three guys very well and things are definitely going to be interesting. I think we all are overlooking the possibility of some fan favorite ECW alumni being thrown into the mix like a Tazz, Shane Douglas, Sabu, or RVD. Anh of these guys in this region could prove a to be somewhat of a threat to Stone Cold, Vadar, and Edge. Regardless of the pairing of these three or add in HBK and you have yourself one hell of a matchup.
     
    #42
  18. TheOneBigWill

    TheOneBigWill [This Space for Rent]

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    How is it improbable? You MUST explain yourself, as this section is within the realm of the rules and you need to follow through. I can't debate it simply being "your opinion".

    However, it's hardly improbable.

    Steve Austin is not Super-man, and he surely can lose on any given day, to any given individual. Didn't he lose to Mickey Whipwreck, in E.C.W.? During a period of time when Whipwreck was considered a "jobber"? So yes, it'd highly probable that Steve Austin can lose.

    Look at some of his top feuds. With guy's like Triple H. Austin gets unfocused and goes balls to the wall. He floors it with intensity, then runs outta gas and gets controlled and defeated. In a surrounding such as E.C.W., he'll have to learn to either go all out and hope it works.. or pace himself and understand that he'll hurt himself, just as much as someone else, if he goes all out instantly.

    The reason I actually like Edge in this situation, is because he isn't going to rush into battle. He's going to piss you off, he's going to make you play his game, of cat and mouse. He'll make you follow him, which expends your energy. Then he'll strike when the best opening and opportunity presents itself to him.

    Sure, he'll take a fair amount of punishment, but that doesn't mean he can't withstand it.
     
    #43
  19. Steamboat Ricky

    Steamboat Ricky WZCW's Living Legend

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    Will, Will, Will...


    You go on and on about Edge being "The Ultimate Opportunist" and what not...how he'll make you "play his game." It seems to me that Austin was doing that same exact thing ten years earlier...only he did it to the owner of the WWF...thus pitting him against an entire organization. That being said, I think Stone Cold will have no problem getting into people's minds and making them play the game his way. Look at how he handled himself from the night after Royal Rumble '99 all the way until he won back the WWF Title at Mania XV. He got the Corporation to play the game HIS way. And it brought him gold.
     
    #44
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  20. HBK-aholic

    HBK-aholic Shawn Michaels ❤

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    You did WHAT to HBK? *Sigh* Making my life so much harder. Anyway, anyone writing him off now is stupid - and you seem to have forgotten many matches he has won where there has been rules different to a traditional WWE match.

    jmt225 said everything I want to say perfectly, so everyone should go back up and read his post, I won't repeat it now. Shawn is a legend, he has a hell of a chance of winning this thing, and the ECW region, while throwing a few bends in what was a clear path, does not mean Shawn cannot do great.
     
    #45
  21. FromTheSouth

    FromTheSouth You don't want it with me.

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    Wow, I knew the regions would be stacked, but my first look at the brackets is a truly sobering experience. I expected Stone Cold and Andre to both advance pretty far, and it looks like a sixth round possibility.

    I do not understand how Vader is seeded higher than Andre. He has a following on here, but on pure legendness alone.....Andre.

    I love this idea of a tournament. I am curious to see how far Edge gets. His best matches are behind him, yet his legend continues to grow. He is capable of advancing past his former spotfests, but now is the time to see how far he has come in the last year.
     
    #46
  22. TheOneBigWill

    TheOneBigWill [This Space for Rent]

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    I can't wait for HBK-aholic to join the fray and begin explaining why she firmly believes Shawn Michaels should win, that will definately make for some highly heated and interesting discussion in this thread.

    I don't believe you'd be biased to a situation, and unlike last year, this year I fully plan on listening to all parties involved before I vote on a mere "personal favorite".

    Last year, I gave my full extent of an apology on overlooking Vader and not respecting what he can do. This year, I'm open to believing and listening to any argument, on any individual. But regarding Edge, I will fight to the end on defending him as one of the very best, in any situation.

    The problem with a Vader/Edge match-up, is Vader is a vet. through and through, and Edge is just now in the middle of what could be considered "his prime", so it's going to be extremely difficult to try and place any type of happy medium on that.

    You can't simply say because Vader has an experience edge, that he'd have (pun intended) "The Edge".

    This is the problem. We don't know just how sadistic Edge can get, because he hasn't faced anyone that can rival how you build Vader to be. But Edge has still defeated some of the very best in the business, in some of the most violent matches known to man.

    He did defeat Mick Foley in a great Hardcore brawl. He (w/ Foley) defeated Dreamer & Funk, in their own backyard. And he went toe-to-toe with the Undertaker inside Hell in a Cell, not to mention defeating him in T.L.C.

    Edge's best region to be in, would be one that favors weapons being legal, and rule breaking being allowed. Edge is a master of the game, regardless how old or young he is. He knows his way around the inside and out of a ring, and can use everything to his advantage.

    You can't overlook someone like Edge, who's found a way to win most of his Championships on opportunistic moments, to not being able to find an open opportunity on Vader.

    And I don't wanna keep going back to it, but you do realize Edge has defeated Vader already. :p In under 5 minutes, mind you.

    Like I said before, Vader has one gear.. forward, and fast. Edge can play to that by merely avoiding him and wearing him down. The ability to think on the run has worked well with Edge, and he will constantly be on the lookout to find new ways to help himself.

    In a hardcore environment, the options are limitless. Just because Vader has more experience, and has withstood more than Edge has, doesn't mean Edge should be discounted for lack of experience. If anything, that's a wildcard that could play to Edge's favor.

    Noone knows exactly how great or poor Edge would fair, but one would surely have to think that an individual whos made his career off falling from ladders, and being involved in heavy gimmick matches all the time.. would surely be favored.

    This falls back on Vader merely having more experience in the business though. Edge's prime isn't over, it's only just begun. I'll give you that Edge will never likely be as violent or sadistic as Vader. But that doesn't mean he can't find levels of hardcore ability to counter and equal him.

    One pun deserves another. OH, it's time.. it's time.. it's, Edge's time.
     
    #47
  23. TheOneBigWill

    TheOneBigWill [This Space for Rent]

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    The difference between Steve Austin versus an Owner, as opposed to Steve Austin v. Edge, is the fact that Edge isn't a mindless puppet. McMahon and his followers "played" Austin's game, because they weren't smart enough to understand what he was doing.

    Edge has come very far in knowing how to manipulate the system, and I would easily say he's done it just as much, if not more, than Steve Austin. Austin "controlled" how McMahon did things to the point of out-thinking him and becoming a Champion. Congrats, on that.

    Meanwhile, Edge has manipulated and become the Opportunist in finding his way to 8 World Heavyweight Championships in under 3 years.

    In the war between Austin & Edge, Austin is less than Vader. He's a brawler, who doesn't put a lot of thought into what he's doing inside the ring. He just goes and goes, until either he's spent, or the match is over. The difference between Austin and Vader is the fact that Austin can NOT hand out the type of punishment Vader can.

    Meanwhile, Edge can still match Austin for mind-games off the center stage of the ring, and then add to them in the ring. What's Austin gonna do? Cheer to the fans? Drink some more beer? Maybe attempt a stunner, only to be shoved away and speared to hell? Yeah..
     
    #48
  24. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

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    You can bring up Edge's win over Vader all you want. G'head, it means NOTHING. This tournament is about primes, and when Edge defeated Vader, he wasn't near his prime. Edge would have been Vader's toothpick in the early- and mid-90's. You learned first hand last year about Vader being the victim of Vince's bad booking, and that hasn't changed a lick.

    But we've both got bigger problems to worry about than each other right now, with Lesnar in the ECW draw.
     
    #49
  25. Steamboat Ricky

    Steamboat Ricky WZCW's Living Legend

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    Will, all I hear from you is that Austin is lax in the ring...he's just a brawler. Anything after his days in WCW disqualifies him from being considered one of the greatest of all time.

    Did you see the match that was posted in the [Official] Rattlesnake Mudhole? If that defeat of Arn Anderson isn't evidence of the kind of mat wrestling that Steve Austin is capable of...then I'm not sure what is. If you want something more obvious, watch the submission match with Hart at Mania 13.

    Austin not as menacing as Vader? I don't think I have enough evidence to say that Austin is MORE menacing than Vader, but look at all of the Rumbles Austin has won. He won 3. THREE. And he got second in another. If that is not menacing....well, I'm pretty sure that's quite menacing.

    Yeah, "Stone Cold" was a brawler. Why? Because that was the character he played. Edge was a spot monkey when he was feuding with the Hardys and the Dudleys...but since he has proven that he's a pretty good in-ring performer. It's all about the booking. And Austin played his character like an Oscar winner. "Stone Cold" wasn't going to get over by beating people in a shoot-style of wrestling.
     
    #50

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