Texas Man to be executed today...

[LSN80]

For a shooting spree that targeted Middle Eastern men, beginning on September 15, 2001, four days following the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade center. Mark Stroman, a 41-year-old man from Texas, shot and killed 48 year old Waqar Hasan in the head while Hasan was managing his convenience store. Hasan, a Pakistani man, had recently moved with his family to Dallas to "start fresh."

Six days later on September 21st, Stroman shot Bangladeshi man Rais Bhuiyan in the face while he manned the counter at his gas station. Miracuolously, Bhuiyan survived, but was left blind in his left eye to the day.

Stroman completed his shooting spree on October 4th, when he shot Mesquite Gas Station owner Vasudev Patel in the chest following an attempted robbery. However, after fatally wounding Patel, Stroman fled the store without taking any cash. As this murder was caught on video tape, Patel's death was the crime he was tried for, convicted of, and sentenced to death for.

The full article can be read here:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/20/texas.execution/index.html?hpt=hp_p1&iref=NS1

Stroman had claimed repeatedly over the 2 years before his trial that he was so overcome with grief over the death of his sister, whom he said worked in the North Tower of the World Trade Center, and was killed in the 9/11 attacks. However, this was never raised as an issue in his murder trial by his laywer, nor was it mentioned by his appellate attorney in any of his appeals. In denying his final appeal last month, the Supreme Court issued the following statement:

"He (Stroman) believed that the U.S. government hadn't done their job, so he was going to do it for them by retaliating. This was a carefully planned revenge plot. Mr. Stroman was released on bail for previous crimes four days following the 9/11 attacks."

Following his conviction. Stroman showed no remorse. Upon sentencing, he flashed an obscene gesture at the Patel family, and mocked them in open court. His prison blog a year later showed little remorse as well. Rather, he clamied his acts to be those of "patriotism." Stroman wrote:

"This was not a crime of hate but an act of Passion and Patriotism, an act of country and commitment, an act of retribution and recompense. The was not done during Peace time but at War time. I, Mark Anthony Stroman, felt a need to exact some measure of equality and fairness for the thousands of victims of September 11th, 2001."

It should be noted that in this blog and his subsequent prison blogs,Stroman never once mentioned his sister. However, his recent blogs and comments have changed from patriotism and revenge rhetoric to that of remorse and sorrow. In an interview with CNN.com three months ago, Stroman said the following:

"I cannot tell you that I am an innocent man. I am not asking you to feel sorry for me, and I won't hide the truth. I am a human being and made a terrible mistake out of love, grief and anger, and believe me, I am paying for it every single minute of the day."

Stroman echoed these sentiments in subsequent prison blogs:

"The 9/11 attacks sparked something inside of me.Let's just say that I could not think clearly anymore and I am sorry to say I made innocent people pay for my rage, anger, grief and loss. I have destroyed my victims' families as well as my own. Out of pure anger and stupidity I did some things to some men from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia. And now I sit on death row awaiting execution. And by no means am I proud of what I have done."

Stroman has many supporters who have petioned the Supreme court to stay his execution, or overrule it altogether. But suprisingly, his biggest supporter has been his lone surviving victim, Rais Bhuiyan, who Stroman shot in the face and blinded. Although Bauiyum testified against Stroman, he has petioned Texas to spare Stroman's life. He created the website WorldWithoutHate.org, to further the cause of sparing Stroman's life. Here are some of his comments:

"In order to live in a better and peaceful world, we need to break the cycle of hate and violence. I believe forgiveness is the best policy, which helps to break this cycle. Make no mistake, I was the victim of a hate crime. But I forgave Mark Stroman many years ago. I believe he was ignorant and not capable of distinguishing between right and wrong. Otherwise he wouldn't have done what he did."

CNN's message boards have lit up in response to this, with varied opinions on Stroman. Here are some of the most notable, from both sides.

"Jamie5" said:

"Execution is nothing more than "vengeance of the public hatred". This man hurt and killed others for vengeance born of hatred. Now he is scheduled to be killed for vengeance born of hatred. The death penalty is a hate crime in itself and should be abolished everywhere. "

"ZaphedBeadle" said:

The behaviour exhibited by this man is only human. I believe the people who were killed were in the right place at the right time. If i were anything close to being a muslim , I would have hidden untill 9/11/2002. I lost many friends to revenge killing and this is life"

Not everyone was supportive or were as magnanimous as Jamie and Zaphed, however.

"Dave A" said:

"The world will be a better place when this man is executed. 9/11 was just an excuse for him to practice racial violence and hatred. Not to mention that he was already a convicted felon."

"Larry T" said:

"This terrorist Stroman dedicated his life to hate, anger and ingnorance in my opinion. How dare him play God and shoot innocent hard working family men. He gave the finger to a victims family during trial????????????? Evil monster."

People obviously feel strongly on both sides of the issue. But I want the final word here to belong to Byhuian. Byhuian asked Stroman's lawyer to pass along the following to Stroman.

"I am running a campaign to save your life.I would like to meet you on death row before it's too late. I want to personally tell you I forgive you."

Inspiring? Sure. The greatest form of forgiveness? Absolutely. Bhyuian is the true hero of this story. He was to be married the week following the shooting that left him hospitilized for weeks, and blinded in one eye. And yet he has forgiven his attacker, and is compaigning to save his life.

Just some questions to drive discussion. Please feel free to add any other thoughts on this.


Would you be capable of forgiving a man who shot and blinded you, and cost you your opportunity to be married? Would you be able to to manage such forgiveness that you'ld be able to petition to save that man's life?

If you were sitting on the bench, ruling on Stroman's appeal, take into account all that's been presented here. What would you personally decide regarding his execution?

What are your personal feelings toward Mark Stroman?

Any other thoughts are welcome.

 

[Dwayne_Jason]

Would you be capable of forgiving a man who shot and blinded you, and cost you your opportunity to be married? Would you be able to to manage such forgiveness that you'ld be able to petition to save that man's life?

Honestly, I can't say until someone actually does it to me. Hindsight is the greatest answer of all. Just like we could logically predict DB's win in hindsight, the same is true when you're blinded and shot. I can tell you how I'll be a good man and forgive him because I believe in the idea of letting things go, but I could also be bitter about the fact that he pretty much ruined my life because of some stupid dumass decision he's going to fry for. Either way, hindsight, in this context, is everything.

I cannot tell you how I will feel because I can't tell you how I'll feel about anything in the future. Grief is subjective. Maybe he had a good muslim life and believes in the idea of forgiveness because HE himself has still had a good satisfying life. But what if his wife left him, he was out of a job, and was a bum in the streets and the only thing he looked forward to was when the prick that ruined your life would fry? I'm not saying, that's how one should feel or would feel, but emotion is subjective especially when you're talking about the future and the what ifs.

If you were sitting on the bench, ruling on Stroman's appeal, take into account all that's been presented here. What would you personally decide regarding his execution?

I believe in this simple little thing called objectivity. If the evidence against him was solid, I'd do what a lawmen would in that given situation. Call me a cold hearted bastard, but I believe in evidence before feelings in any situation whatsoever. That said, my personal feelings would be to fry the bastard, however, I also believe in the proper rehabilitation of the prison system. I would sentence him to death but I would give him a probationary period and in that said period if he was truly sorry then I'd give him a life sentence and let him spend the rest of his life in prison.


What are your personal feelings toward Mark Stroman?


I suppose he is a racist bastard that turned into jelly due to prison. I'd say there are couple types of people. One that reject everything and anything that will help them, and one that embrace it and turn into a generally better person. Take Shawn Micheals for example, he turned his life around with religion, and now he couldn't be a nicer guy. I'm not saying that's what Mark did, but he did turn into a better person it seems. I'm not saying he shouldn't pay for his crimes but he should spend the rest of his life in prison doing what he can to atone for what he did. Letting him fry will just leave you with another dead carcass that's absolutely meaningless after the shock goes through the brain. The mind has a grand ideas of closure when the cold reality is that when you die, you die and that's all you do. Your bodily and brain functions stop and you're a pile of meat which absolutely useless to humans.

My personal feelings would tell me to let him stay alive in prison instead of killing him because he seems to have changed so let him do what he can to live his life in prison.

 

[JGlass]

This is a very, VERY interesting story to me. It goes to show you that every religion has its crazies as well as its good people. While that seems like commonsense, it's really forgotten all the time, as proven by Stroman's actions.

I'm not an advocate of the death penalty, but I am adamantly against white supremacy and hate crimes, so this article poses an interesting moral and ethical dilemma for me.

Would you be capable of forgiving a man who shot and blinded you, and cost you your opportunity to be married? Would you be able to to manage such forgiveness that you'ld be able to petition to save that man's life?

Personally... no way in hell. Being blinded is one of my biggest fears, and to have a marriage ruined on top of that would just infuriate me. I might not want to see this man put to death, but only because I'd rather see him suffer in prison.

If you were sitting on the bench, ruling on Stroman's appeal, take into account all that's been presented here. What would you personally decide regarding his execution?

Once again, my personal beliefs sort of cloud my judgement here, but it's kind of hard to see this going anyway besides execution. I mean, I do believe that he's reformed and that he no longer believes in white supremacy, but at the same time he killed two people and maimed a third. In a place like Texas, one of the biggest advocates of the death penalty, I don't see anyway this guy doesn't get the metaphorical chair.

What are your personal feelings toward Mark Stroman?

It's sad that he learned the error of his ways when it was too late. I hope the fact that he has earned the forgiveness of one of his victims will help ease the pain of dying, but I'm sure it would mean more to both he and his victim if he was take off death row.

 

[Sinister Shadows]

I'm an advocate with the death penalty in cases like this in which there is zero doubt. Today's prisons are over crowded as it is, meaning they drain even more tax money to house and sustain criminals who cannot function in today society without being a threat to someone's life. This does not sound like remorse at all to me, this sounds like a coward who was a "big enough" of a person to attempt to take the lives of three innocent men, but now does not want to face death himself. This man is no different than any other terrorist that lives in this world.

 

[Megatron]

Would you be capable of forgiving a man who shot and blinded you, and cost you your opportunity to be married? Would you be able to to manage such forgiveness that you'ld be able to petition to save that man's life?

I'd be lying if I said I could. I would hate to lose any one of my senses, but probably visibility would be the one I'd cope worst with. And for the reason why the guy did it, because of the color of my skin (assuming I'm in Bhuiyan's shoes, that is), makes it that much worse. So no, if something like that that changed my life forever I don't know how I could even give him an ounce of remorse when it was intentional.

If you were sitting on the bench, ruling on Stroman's appeal, take into account all that's been presented here. What would you personally decide regarding his execution?

I'm not a fan of the death penalty, but with the clear evidence that is had that he killed 2 men, along with seriously injuring a 3rd for racist reasons, even with support by the man he injured, I'd have to give him the chair. While he may seem like a changed man, you have to charge on what he did, not what he's turning into (or so it appears).

What are your personal feelings toward Mark Stroman?

Obviously it's sad to see a guy finally appear to figure it out just as hes about to be executed, but I don't think he should be excused for his actions 10 years ago (I know he's in prison but his life is still on the line), especially with how he reacted during his trial (with the flipping of the bird and other nonsense). So while it's good to see the guy 'see the light' before he dies, his actions still happened and he should have repercussions for those actions.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

I'm an advocate with the death penalty in cases like this in which there is zero doubt. Today's prisons are over crowded as it is, meaning they drain even more tax money to house and sustain criminals who cannot function in today society without being a threat to someone's life. This does not sound like remorse at all to me, this sounds like a coward who was a "big enough" of a person to attempt to take the lives of three innocent men, but now does not want to face death himself. This man is no different than any other terrorist that lives in this world.

Today's prisons are overcrowded; but not because of the overwhelming number of murder's and psychopaths locked up. It's the small petty crimes, and mainly drug charges. The number of people being held on small marijuana charges is ridiculous, and the money being wasted on these prisoners could and should be used in so many more productive ways; but that's another issue for another thread.

I'd like to think I would be a big enough person to be able to forgive a crime that affected me in such a direct manner; but I can't honestly say that I would be able to forgive a man who shot my in the head, took my sight, and had every intention to kill me. They say time heals all wounds, and I'm sure as time went on it was easier for the victim to forgive the actions rather than spending the rest of his life angry about it.

I am interested is anyone knows whether or not Texas still uses the electric chair? or if they've moved onto lethal injection like most stats that practice the death penalty.

 

[Chardee Macdennis]

I've not had time to read all of the responses yet, but I'd like to give mine, brief as it may be.

This man has no business socializing among the rest of us. Life in prison is, in and of itself, a hell on earth and I have no problem putting people there that deserve it. However, in states that actually practice legal execution, the execution should be carried out each and every time the sentence is handed down. When it's not, it runs the risk of losing effectivness as a deterent. Once that happens, it might as well be abolished completely. I've no sympathy for the terrorists that carried out the 9/11 attacks, but to punish innocent muslims for the actions of a few is an atrocious act. When the needle hits this mans viens, I'll sleep soundly, you can bet your bottom dollar.

 

[H33LTurn]

Would you be capable of forgiving a man who shot and blinded you, and cost you your opportunity to be married? Would you be able to to manage such forgiveness that you'ld be able to petition to save that man's life?

It would be difficult but not impossible. I understand how something like that could cause you grief and turmoil but forgiveness is a part of life. The faster you forgive, the less you have holding you down.

If you were sitting on the bench, ruling on Stroman's appeal, take into account all that's been presented here. What would you personally decide regarding his execution?

Being a Christian I resent the taking of anyones life. "An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind"- Mohandas Gandhi. If you kill him he isnt going to have time to repent or suffer, hes just going to be dead. I dont see what good comes out of executing him, its an unfair retaliation technique used by an outdated legal system.

What are your personal feelings toward Mark Stroman?

I sympathize with him. Its easy to understand how he felt given it was so soon after 9/11. Hell if our president launched us into an necessary war years after the tragedy who can blame a guy who had lost a family member for going insane. I'm glad he realizes that what he did was wrong, most people still hold resentment towards people from the middle east and would gladfully kill them all if given the chance. That being said they should have some leniency towards him. Send him to a mental institution, or anger management, and jail but its just hypocritical to kill a guy because he tried to kill someone.

 

[LSN80]

I am interested is anyone knows whether or not Texas still uses the electric chair? or if they've moved onto lethal injection like most stats that practice the death penalty.

I can answer that. Texas actually abolished the electric chair in 1964, after it was deemed "cruel and unusual punishment"(Along with Georgia). All 50+ prisoners who were on death row had their sentences commuted from death to life in prison. It took a decade for them to revisit the policy, and in 1974, lethal injection was implemted(theoretically) in Texas. After 8 more years of lawsuits and injunctions, Texas was finally able to re-institute the death policy in 1982, and has been using lethal injection ever since.


It's impossible for me to look at this objectively, being married. I can try and imagine my life before marriage, but to know someone took away the life I now live would be a large cross for me to bear. Shot in the head, trying to kill me, and I lose my vision in one eye, along with my wife? Like I said, I can't look at this objectively. I admire Buiyaru, and respect him immensely. His ability to forgive is one that you rarely see in this day and age. But Im not him.

If I were sitting in on final appeal, I'd need to be objective. I'd listen to what Buiyaru has to say, but the truth is, he doesn't speak for the other two victims. They're unable to speak for themselves due to this man "act of patriotism". I believe him when he said he's changed, but what he did was monstrous. This wasn't a spur of the moment thing, it was a carefully planned spree that lasted almost a month. No way would I overturn this, the man was convicted for his actions, and the changes in idealism and remorse don't change that. I feel for Stroman's 4 children, but the right thing to do in this situation is to put the needle in his arm.

It would be difficult but not impossible. I understand how something like that could cause you grief and turmoil but forgiveness is a part of life. The faster you forgive, the less you have holding you down.

Forgiveness is a big part of life, that can't be disputed. Id like to say I could forgive someone who cost me so much, but I can't be objective here. Maybe in time the anger would decrease, but Id never be able to get over someone who took my sight, and my wife away. Im more then willing to say as a married man it would be impossible for me to be objective.

If you kill him he isnt going to have time to repent or suffer, hes just going to be dead.

He's spent the last 8 years on death row. If that hasn't given him time to repent, what will?

I sympathize with him. Its easy to understand how he felt given it was so soon after 9/11. Hell if our president launched us into an necessary war years after the tragedy who can blame a guy who had lost a family member for going insane.

Im suspicious of whether he truly lost his sister. There's been no report or actual death certificate that's materialied, his lawyers never brought it up in appeals, and he hasn't mentioned her in the last 8 years.

That being said they should have some leniency towards him. Send him to a mental institution, or anger management, and jail but its just hypocritical to kill a guy because he tried to kill someone.

He didnt try to kill someone, he killed two people, and almost a third. People aren't put on death row for attempted murder. The man felt it was his "patriotic duty" to his country to kill random Middle Easterners. It's not as if he went on a search for the people behind it, he carefully and meticulously planned the murders of three human beings. Im all for giving most people a second chance, but this man doesn't deserve one. Im glad for the man that he feels remorse, and I hope he did "repent." If he did, that should give him peace as he dies, because he deserves to. How the hell do you show leniency towards cold-blooded murder because it was an Arab in this case, but not towards others? That's where the true hypocrisy lies. You have to employ the same standards for each person that commits premeditated, cold-blooded murder. regardless of who they killed and for what reason, or that's where the legal system truly fails.

 

[H33LTurn]

He's spent the last 8 years on death row. If that hasn't given him time to repent, what will?

It just doesnt make sense to kill him now then. Like you said thats 8 years of pain and suffering. If you kill him I dont see how thats implementing justice. Killing him doesnt bring back those who were lost or heal the man who was hurt.

Im suspicious of whether he truly lost his sister. There's been no report or actual death certificate that's materialied, his lawyers never brought it up in appeals, and he hasn't mentioned her in the last 8 years.

Just going by what was said. I skimmed through the entire article and thats what I picked up.

He didnt try to kill someone, he killed two people, and almost a third. People aren't put on death row for attempted murder. The man felt it was his "patriotic duty" to his country to kill random Middle Easterners. It's not as if he went on a search for the people behind it, he carefully and meticulously planned the murders of three human beings. Im all for giving most people a second chance, but this man doesn't deserve one. Im glad for the man that he feels remorse, and I hope he did "repent." If he did, that should give him peace as he dies, because he deserves to. How the hell do you show leniency towards cold-blooded murder because it was an Arab in this case, but not towards others? That's where the true hypocrisy lies. You have to employ the same standards for each person that commits cold-blooded murder, regardless of who they killed and for what reason, or that's where the legal system truly fails.

See your point is flawed. I'm not a lawyer but I do watch a lot of TV having to do with the law and that combined with what I hear in the news proves that every case is different. You cant imply the same punishment to someone for committing the same crime, theres more to it than that. Murder is murder, but intentions do count. And if you think they dont then I guess you think you should receive the same punishment as a cold blooded murderer if you accidentally ran over someone in the street. Like I said, everyone at that time was scared and paranoid, some still are. Some of us made bad judgement at that time, even the government did. That doesnt excuse his actions, but I refuse to judge a man who killed in fear in the same category of people who kill others for money, reputation, revenge, or for fun. You would be surprised how many people have gone from making mistakes worse than his and become some of the best people out there because they learned from their mistakes. Its easy to judge, but I'm pretty sure if I was in his shoes during that time murder would have crossed my mind. Would I have acted on it, probably not, but some people act differently to losing a family member and living in a paranoid and dangerous country than others.

 

[LSN80]

It just doesnt make sense to kill him now then. Like you said thats 8 years of pain and suffering. If you kill him I dont see how thats implementing justice. Killing him doesnt bring back those who were lost or heal the man who was hurt.

You do realize that there's a due process, correct? In these cases, there are a series of appeals that take place. In the case of executing someone, it goes all the way to the Supreme Court. That process takes years, and then the execution is scheduled. Would you rather he be killed as soon as he's sentenced, so he doesn't have to endure the "pain and sufferring" of prison? It's due process, one of the major tenants of our legal system. And you're right, it doesn't bring back the people who were killed. They didnt have a chance to speak for themselves. When you execute people for no reason other then theyre foreigners, do they really deserve sympathy and a lighter sentence? I don't care that he's remorseful now, I care about his actions 10 years ago. And they were henious.

See your point is flawed. I'm not a lawyer but I do watch a lot of TV having to do with the law and that combined with what I hear in the news proves that every case is different.

Awesome. You garner your legal knowledge from ficticious television shows. Every case is different. State laws are different. But the states that do utilize the death penalty, do take things case by case. But cold-blooded, premiditated murder = execution in the states that utilize the death penalty. Almost universally.

You cant imply the same punishment to someone for committing the same crime, theres more to it than that. Murder is murder, but intentions do count.

Good thing I said, premeditated, cold-blooded murder then, eh?

You cant imply the same punishment to someone for committing the same crime, theres more to it than that. Murder is murder, but intentions do count.And if you think they dont then I guess you think you should receive the same punishment as a cold blooded murderer if you accidentally ran over someone in the street.

Im assuming you just "skimmed" my response to you, because that's not at all what I said. Here's what I said:

You have to employ the same standards for each person that commits premeditated cold-blooded murder.

How was I insinuating that a Dante Stallworth(killed a man in a crosswalk accidentally while drunk) deserves the same punishment as Strohman?

Like I said, everyone at that time was scared and paranoid, some still are. Some of us made bad judgement at that time, even the government did. That doesnt excuse his actions, but I refuse to judge a man who killed in fear in the same category of people who kill others for money, reputation, revenge, or for fun.

It was a revenge killing. He was taking the law into his hands in a month long killing spree against Middle Easterners that did nothing wrong. The people who kill for money and reputation, generally speaking, know the people they're murdering. This man targeted complete strangers just because they're Arabic. Im not going to say which is worse, because cold-blooded murder, for any reason, is heinous.

You would be surprised how many people have gone from making mistakes worse than his and become some of the best people out there because they learned from their mistakes.

People who kill two people and attempt to kill another either a) spend the rest of their lives in prison, or b) are executed. A mistake would be, as much as its reprehensible, driving drunk and killing someone accidentally, like Dante Stallworth did. There was still choice that he drank and drove, but it was a mistake that he killed the man in the crosswalk. There's no mistake in killing two people and almost another over the span of a month, there's premeditation. So if people did "worse" things then him, I applaud them for becoming better people. Such as prison chaplains for example, in states that don't use the death penalty. Because I sure as hell guarantee if their crimes were worse then Mr. Stroman, they're still in prison, or were executed.

 

[ABMorales787]

A world without killers would be great. Too bad killing a killer makes you one too. Hate is a cycle that seems all too impossible to break. There just doesn't seem to be one sure fire method to end it. Rais Bhuiyan may be trying to end the hate by spreading love, but this isn't anime. People aren't just gonna see the light and be good. Does Stroman know who's supporting him? Because if he does, he should be apologizing, not going from Captain America to The Punisher with fictional biographies of dead sisters.

It's been 10 years and the man has yet to learn his lesson. Should we wait longer for him to realize the errors he made? Even though one of his victims is trying to help out? It seems like wasted effort a this point. Too much investments seem to be going to one guy for far too long. It's a tough life and you can only get by it by learning. He's clearly not learning.

 

[H33LTurn]

You do realize that there's a due process, correct? In these cases, there are a series of appeals that take place. In the case of executing someone, it goes all the way to the Supreme Court. That process takes years, and then the execution is scheduled. Would you rather he be killed as soon as he's sentenced, so he doesn't have to endure the "pain and sufferring" of prison? It's due process, one of the major tenants of our legal system. And you're right, it doesn't bring back the people who were killed. They didnt have a chance to speak for themselves. When you execute people for no reason other then theyre foreigners, do they really deserve sympathy and a lighter sentence? I don't care that he's remorseful now, I care about his actions 10 years ago. And they were henious.



Awesome. You garner your legal knowledge from ficticious television shows. Every case is different. State laws are different. But the states that do utilize the death penalty, do take things case by case. But cold-blooded, premiditated murder = execution in the states that utilize the death penalty. Almost universally.



Good thing I said, premeditated, cold-blooded murder then, eh?



Im assuming you just "skimmed" my response to you, because that's not at all what I said. Here's what I said:



How was I insinuating that a Dante Stallworth(killed a man in a crosswalk accidentally while drunk) deserves the same punishment as Strohman?




It was a revenge killing. He was taking the law into his hands in a month long killing spree against Middle Easterners that did nothing wrong. The people who kill for money and reputation, generally speaking, know the people they're murdering. This man targeted complete strangers just because they're Arabic. Im not going to say which is worse, because cold-blooded murder, for any reason, is heinous.



People who kill two people and attempt to kill another either a) spend the rest of their lives in prison, or b) are executed. A mistake would be, as much as its reprehensible, driving drunk and killing someone accidentally, like Dante Stallworth did. There was still choice that he drank and drove, but it was a mistake that he killed the man in the crosswalk. There's no mistake in killing two people and almost another over the span of a month, there's premeditation. So if people did "worse" things then him, I applaud them for becoming better people. Such as prison chaplains for example, in states that don't use the death penalty. Because I sure as hell guarantee if their crimes were worse then Mr. Stroman, they're still in prison, or were executed.

What he did was heinous, I get that, but my character wont let me pronounce death over someone who was not in a healthy mental state to commit these crimes. Like I was getting at, people who kill for money or other reasons that allow them some form of satisfaction more than likely know what they're doing is wrong, have no remorse, and if given the opportunity would do it again. I'm not saying they should let him walk, the guy is a danger to others but killing someone doesnt solve anything. Its a religious thing, you just wouldnt understand if you dont have my religious background. I dont think anyone has the right to kill another if they are in a controlled environment like jail. Self defense, accident I condone but it seems a bit childish that our legal system goes for the eye for an eye routine instead of having some sort of system that heals these kinds of people. As soon as someone fucks up the government is given the right to treat them like animals. And yes, the TV shows are fictitious, but they're based on reality. I've also gone to school, which is based on real life, if you must know. Like I said, I'm no judge or lawyer to know the full details, but I know that theres a due process system in place. That doesnt mean its right. OJ walked, and was later found guilty by civil court. Casey Anthony walked, and she was partying while her daughter was missing, later to be found dead. The system that you're defending so much isnt always right. I think wasting a life just proves that we can do what he did. We can stoop that low and we're even worse than him because we're not fresh off a tragedy that left the public and the government in utter paranoia. We've had years to think this through. Forget about the law for a second. Forget about due process and think logically. Two people are dead and a guy is hurt. The guy who caused all of this is already in jail, and he should be because hes obviously a danger to others. What is the reason for killing him? It wont undue the past. Its just payback. We're stuck in a system of payback. We just have to prove that we're badder than a guy who fucked up and awknoledges that what he did was wrong. And now for the finish:

Its funny how a "cold blooded murderer" can find whats wrong in killing someone but a bunch of educated people cant.

 

[Sinister Shadows]

Its funny how a "cold blooded murderer" can find whats wrong in killing someone but a bunch of educated people cant.
_____

In reading about this case, I really don't see him seeing what was wrong in what he done. It looks much more to be that he had no problem handing out death sentences, but when his became imminent, once he was forced to stare death in the eyes, he was terrified and didn't want to face death like he casually made others face. As a taxpayer I don't want to support these kind of people. Fed three meals a day, a bed and shelter. I know none of it is great, but it's free... he can't complain. although I'd be all for putting him on a road crew paving roads all day in the sun with no shoes.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Would you be capable of forgiving a man who shot and blinded you, and cost you your opportunity to be married? Would you be able to to manage such forgiveness that you'ld be able to petition to save that man's life?

I consider myself a Christian. I'm a Christian that makes mistakes, but my religious beliefs are centered around the teachings of Christianity. The Bible preaches forgiveness but I honestly don't think I'd be able to forgive someone that brought such a degree of sorrow and grief to my life. I can't say that for 100% certainty because I don't know if you can be 100% certain unless you happen to be someone that's been in such a position. I have to admit that being blinded is something that does fairly terrify me, as I'd imagine it does with most people to some degree. Forgiveness may be divine but I'm still only human and everyone only human has their limits.

If you were sitting on the bench, ruling on Stroman's appeal, take into account all that's been presented here. What would you personally decide regarding his execution?

In the case of Stroman, the evidence is 100% rock solid and undeniable. The vast majority of successful criminal prosecutions, somewhere in the neighborhood of 75% I believe, are won with primarily circumstantial evidence. Nothing wrong with that if the evidence you've got is solid and you have a good deal of it. When it comes to circumstantial evidence, that means that there's always at least some possibility that a mistake has been made. That's not the case with Stroman, so there's no chance that an innocent man has been wrongly convicted. This is one of the few instances in which I can say that I'd feel little hesitation in imposing the death sentence. It's not something that I'd do happily but I think it's warranted here and, most importantly as I said earlier, there's no doubt that he did it.

What are your personal feelings toward Mark Stroman?

As a human being, I do feel sorry for Stroman for the loss he suffered. However, Stroman wasn't the only person who lost someone he loved on 9/11. As a Corrections Officer, I hear excuses everyday for why someone did what they did. I've heard it from drug dealers, I've heard it from burglars, robbers, rapists, pedophiles, etc. Basically, I've heard it all and nothing this guy had to say isn't anything I probably haven't heard from a hundred times from a hundred different guys. Stroman was angry and wanted to take his anger out on someone. He couldn't take it out on the people actually responsible for the 9/11 attacks, so he made due with people that had the similar physical characteristics, countries of origin and/or religious beliefs. Mark Stroman isn't the least bit sorry for the fact that he killed 2 innocent men and, in some ways, destroyed the life of another. His act of "patriotism" is every bit as transparent as those who claim to be servicing the will of God. It's a smokescreen, nothing more. If Stroman was truly so infused with patriotic ferver, why not enlist in the military and fight for his country against the terrorists that want to see it brought down? Stroman saw an opportunity to vent his hate and grief against convenient targets.

 

[H33LTurn]

In reading about this case, I really don't see him seeing what was wrong in what he done. It looks much more to be that he had no problem handing out death sentences, but when his became imminent, once he was forced to stare death in the eyes, he was terrified and didn't want to face death like he casually made others face. As a taxpayer I don't want to support these kind of people. Fed three meals a day, a bed and shelter. I know none of it is great, but it's free... he can't complain. although I'd be all for putting him on a road crew paving roads all day in the sun with no shoes.

You can put your own 2 cents into what he feels and doesnt feels but to me if someone says they've made a terrible mistake then they obviously realize that what he did was wrong. We've had plenty of guys over the years do even more horrific crimes and not show the slightest bit of remorse. He understands that hes not innocent. Even the man who he injured was begging for him not to be executed. And the whole taxpayer thing is really irrelevant. You already pay for people who have a life sentence and arent eligible for death row so one more man wont make a difference. Its funny you want him to face such a harsh death when he has done nothing to you, and the person that hes harmed was pleading for him not to be executed.

 

[Sinister Shadows]

Today's prison system is a joke, many prisoners have stated that the only thing that today's prisons are good for is making you a better criminal.

But what good does it do keeping him locked up until he dies of old age? As for his remorse, most anyone is remorseful when they see the end of their life upon them. If he has truly reformed and given himself to God, he has nothing to worry about, right?

The last numbers I saw, to keep an inmate in prison on a life sentence for 35 years, it cost something like 1.6 Million in tax money.

 

[H33LTurn]

Today's prison system is a joke, many prisoners have stated that the only thing that today's prisons are good for is making you a better criminal.

But what good does it do keeping him locked up until he dies of old age? As for his remorse, most anyone is remorseful when they see the end of their life upon them. If he has truly reformed and given himself to God, he has nothing to worry about, right?

The last numbers I saw, to keep an inmate in prison on a life sentence for 35 years, it cost something like 1.6 Million in tax money.

1.6 million sounds like a lot, but when divided by individual taxpayers its hardly a loss.

If we're speaking in terms of God, then he doesnt have anything to worry about, but we do. The law of God proclaims that we have no right to take the life of another. And I'm sure the guy could be a good influence in jail. With all the coldhearted crimminals in there I'm sure someone could have a change of heart after speaking to him. But I guess everything happens for a reason, and at least he wont have to suffer in jail anymore. But as a Cristian I answer to the law of God first and the law of man later. The word of God doesnt make the guy's murder any less sinful than the death penalty.

 

[LSN80]

What he did was heinous, I get that, but my character wont let me pronounce death over someone who was not in a healthy mental state to commit these crimes. Like I was getting at, people who kill for money or other reasons that allow them some form of satisfaction more than likely know what they're doing is wrong, have no remorse, and if given the opportunity would do it again. I'm not saying they should let him walk, the guy is a danger to others but killing someone doesnt solve anything. Its a religious thing, you just wouldnt understand if you dont have my religious background.

I want to touch on this, I really do. I DO have your religious background, having grown up in church the first 21 years of my life, and going occasionally the past 7. Let's truly examine what the scripture has to say.

In the OT, God ordered his people to put to death those who robbed, blasphemed, killed, and even mouthed off to their parents. Heck God himself killed David son, the King of Israel, who was a "man after God's own heart!" But David had committed premiditated murder when had Uriah killed because he had banged Uriah's wife Bathsheba and knocked her up when Uriah was at war. (2 Samuel 13:-19). I realize that Jesus' death on the cross was about salvation and abolishing OT law, but consider the two thiefs he died next to. One repented, the other didn't. Did God spare the life of the man who repented? Nope, he just assured him of eternal life in the afterlife. Big difference.

Now let's look at NT scripture after Jesus' death.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

Compare this to the exaample of the thief on the cross who repented. Would you consider his actions to be anything less then sin?If he's repented, based on what you believe, then he has the gift of "eternal life." But the fact of the matter is, he still sinned, and you can read what the wages are from your own Bible. Do I agree? I don't know what I believe, honestly. But looking at things through a religious manner, the Bible itself confirms what the "wages of sin" are.

I dont think anyone has the right to kill another if they are in a controlled environment like jail. Self defense, accident I condone.

I dont understand what you mean here. You condone putting to death people who kill out of self-defense and accident, but not cold-blooded killers? I don't follow this logic whatsoever.

As soon as someone fucks up the government is given the right to treat them like animals.

Imprisoning someone for murder, giving them 3 meals a day, and a bed to sleep in, along with allowing 8 years of appeals is treating someone like an animal? Please. The man didn't f*ck up, his actions were calculated and cold.

And yes, the TV shows are fictitious, but they're based on reality. I've also gone to school, which is based on real life, if you must know.

I prefer real life too. Ill just say simply this, which is that I have a doctorate in Psychology. 1/4 of what i learned was legal ethics, and I own my own practice, where I keep a lawyer on retainer for $10,000 yearly for me and my 5 employees, to protect them and myself. It's not cheap brother, but I expect alot of my lawyer. Much of it surrounds understanding the law, which I do fairly well.

Like I said, I'm no judge or lawyer to know the full details, but I know that theres a due process system in place. That doesnt mean its right. OJ walked, and was later found guilty by civil court.

There's a difference between criminal court, and civil court. In criminal court, the burden is on the prosecution. They failed due to a racist police officer named Mark Furrman, who had accosted and even choked one black man prior. Because he purgered himself, his evidence was thrown into question, and subsequently kicked out. That provided reasonable doubt, and like it or not, OJ was rightfully acquitted. In civil court, the burden is on the defendant, not the plaintiff. Huge difference.

Casey Anthony walked, and she was partying while her daughter was missing, later to be found dead. The system that you're defending so much isnt always right.

im not defending the law as Im so much defending the checks and balances of it. The evidence didnt point to Anthony committing any violent crimes, which is all she was charged for. They could have charged her with neglegance in the death of a minor, desecration of a corpse, and evidence tampering, but they didn't. She admitted to the latter 3 essentially. There wasn't undisputable proof she was guilty for the crimes she was charged with, so she was rightfully acquitted.

I think wasting a life just proves that we can do what he did. We can stoop that low and we're even worse than him because we're not fresh off a tragedy that left the public and the government in utter paranoia. We've had years to think this through.

And the man only added to the "tradgedy" due to his monstrous, unexcusable actions, did he not? The law isn't doing what he did, his actions were cold-blooded and calculated. He went through 8 years of every appeal possible. Were the men he killed afforded the same luxury? Nope. He's simply serving his sentence according to the law.

Forget about the law for a second. Forget about due process and think logically. Two people are dead and a guy is hurt. The guy who caused all of this is already in jail, and he should be because hes obviously a danger to others.What is the reason for killing him? It wont undue the past.

Fair enough. No, you can't undue the past. But by executing him, you ensure that he never is a danger to others again. His first three years in jail he was apart of a white supremacist gang, who beat up people of opposite races. The man is a sociopath, which means he could return to that behavior at any time. Think A Clockwork Orange, if you've seen it. Executing him ensures he never commits another hate crime.

Its just payback. We're stuck in a system of payback. We just have to prove that we're badder than a guy who fucked up and awknoledges that what he did was wrong.

This isn't payback dude. Payback would have been if Buiyman, whose live was essentially ruined by Stroman, shot him. That would be payback. He's had a chance at every appeal possible, and he lost. Executing someone ten years later isn't payback, its penance for his hate crimes that he was 100%, undisputably guilty of. And he's acknowledged what he did was wrong, but he still, ten years later, hides behind excuses that he was "angry, grief ridden, and overcome with a need to act." He's still hiding behind bullshit excuses for his actions.

Its funny how a "cold blooded murderer" can find whats wrong in killing someone but a bunch of educated people cant.

Why do you think appeals are used in these situations, this time that took 8 years? To see if there's any justification for sparing his life. Funny how his victims didn't have that option available to them.

 

[H33LTurn]

I dont understand what you mean here. You condone putting to death people who kill out of self-defense and accident, but not cold-blooded killers? I don't follow this logic whatsoever.

I never said I condone putting to death people who kill out of self defence. I dont know where you pulled that from. I was speaking on the death penalty and how you should only take someones life when you yourself are in danger, hence self defense. Not when someone is surrounded by bars and guards.

Imprisoning someone for murder, giving them 3 meals a day, and a bed to sleep in, along with allowing 8 years of appeals is treating someone like an animal? Please. The man didn't f*ck up, his actions were calculated and cold.

You make it sound so luxurious. How about gangs, not being able to see his family, being told when to sleep, what to eat, when to shower, etc? How about his life being in danger 24/7? You can calculate mistakes too. Just because you plan something doesnt mean that doing so is not a mistake. He would've fucked up if he planned it for months or if he just thought of it one day. Might I also add to the white supremacy thing that most people who go to jail are basically forced to choose a gang affiliation if they want to survive. I doubt he was eligible for the bloods and crips.

And the man only added to the "tradgedy" due to his monstrous, unexcusable actions, did he not? The law isn't doing what he did, his actions were cold-blooded and calculated. He went through 8 years of every appeal possible. Were the men he killed afforded the same luxury? Nope. He's simply serving his sentence according to the law.

Killing another who does not pose an imminent threat to your livelihood is coldblooded no matter how you put it. Its what he did and its what we're doing now.

This isn't payback dude. Payback would have been if Buiyman, whose live was essentially ruined by Stroman, shot him. That would be payback. He's had a chance at every appeal possible, and he lost. Executing someone ten years later isn't payback, its penance for his hate crimes that he was 100%, undisputably guilty of. And he's acknowledged what he did was wrong, but he still, ten years later, hides behind excuses that he was "angry, grief ridden, and overcome with a need to act." He's still hiding behind bullshit excuses for his actions.

How are those bullshit excuses? The extreme emotional distress clouded his judgement. Hes merely explaining himself, he never said it was right.

Why do you think appeals are used in these situations, this time that took 8 years? To see if there's any justification for sparing his life. Funny how his victims didn't have that option available to them.

And we all know how fair appeals are. Wasnt one of the chicks who Charles Manson deceived into killing someone denied freedom decades after the incident and when she was close to death and visibly full of remorse? The legal system isnt a fan of sparing anyone from their fate.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I am likely in the minority here but if a man shot, blinded me, and cost me the opportunity to be married, I would still manage to be able to forgive him. It is due to my personal and religious beliefs. I'm also in the minority in the sense that I would petition to save the man's life if he was set to be executed. We are given our life by a higher power, who are we to say that we have the right to take that life from another by killing them? Murder is murder, you can go on all you want about what a terrible person the individual was, but you are still doing an act of murder if you execute them. No matter how much I hated someone or how terrible of a person they may be, I would rather their life be spared. They might redeem themselves or they might not. Why deny them a chance to do so? I do NOT condone what this man has done. Not in any way shape or form. However, I also do not condone taking his life. It is not our place to judge. That's just what I believe. If you disagree, you are entitled to your own opinion.

 

[LSN80]

I never said I condone putting to death people who kill out of self defence. I dont know where you pulled that from. I was speaking on the death penalty and how you should only take someones life when you yourself are in danger, hence self defense. Not when someone is surrounded by bars and guards.

My mistake, and I apologize. Its just the way things were lumped together in one sentence that confused me. I agree, in the outside world, that the only justification for taking another's life is extreme self defense. But this isnt the outside world, this is the state of Texas' penal system. As a convicted felon of more then one occasion, Im sure he knew the law surrounding execution style murder in his own state, and yet he chose to take the risk anyway. Murder is defined as this:

"the unlawful and malicious or premeditated killing of one human being by another"

The death penalty simply doesn't fit within this definition. It's non-malicious, lawful, and carried out by the government, not an individual. Kill, murder, and execute are not interchangeable terms in any sense of the words. Just because two actions end in the same result fails to make them equivalent. If that was the case, love making would be rape, incareration in the prison system would be kidnapping, and self-defense would be considered battery or murder. But many a bumper sticker reads we kill people to show them that killing is wrong, in a sarcastic way. Id change it to this, although its not as flashy: We execute people to show them that murder is wrong.

Ive heard the argument said that if we're going to execute, we might as well rape the rapist, and so forth. Point taken, although they're missing the bigger picture. By executing murderers, we're preventing them from committing their crime again, and preventing the unneccessary harm of others. It also provides closure for the family and friends of who they killed. The man in New Jersey is a perfect example of this. He killed a man's wife, carved up his son(who miraculously survived), but is eligible for parole in 40 years. There's a very real chance that this remorseless bastard will kill again, and what does that do to the victim's family? It leaves them in a state of unrest. If one is to argue that the taaking of another life is always unacceptable(which Im not suggesting youre doing), then they need to concede that killing in self-defense is unacceptable and should be punished.

You make it sound so luxurious. How about gangs?

The man was apart of a white supremacist gang his first 4 years in prison. He and his fellow crew members brutally beat up those of different races and colors. He was already an admitted white supremacist when he entered jail, and part of a similar gang on the outside, so its not like he's been forced into one.

Not being able to see his family.

This sucks, no doubt. But why is this the case? Maybe because he killed two people and maimed another? He brought that upon himself.

Being told when to sleep, what to eat, when to shower, etc?

Isn't this what we do with our children as well? Are they facing cruel treatment?

You can calculate mistakes too. Just because you plan something doesnt mean that doing so is not a mistake.

A mistake is an error, or a lapse in judgement. Would you truly argue that this is the case here. The man didnt make an error, or a simple lapse in judgement. He planned the execution style murder of three innocents. Thats far beyond a mistake. This was done with malice, not an error or lapse in judgment.

He would've fucked up if he planned it for months or if he just thought of it one day. Might I also add to the white supremacy thing that most people who go to jail are basically forced to choose a gang affiliation if they want to survive. I doubt he was eligible for the bloods and crips

.

Whether he planned it for months, or decided in an hour, it was done with malice. Not a mistake. The white supremacist argument here is quite flawed, because he was apart of a white supremacist, Hell's Angels gang for years before he went to prison. He wasn't "forced" to join that gang, he was already apart of it.

Killing another who does not pose an imminent threat to your livelihood is coldblooded no matter how you put it. Its what he did and its what we're doing now.

See what I said about differentiating between execution and murder. There's a large difference. He killed innocent people. The government is executing a guilty man. Look at it this way: The death penalty is a fullproof deterrent to crime. The murderer will never kill again due to the execution. There are men who are serving life sentences who have been released early, or who have escaped, and killed again. The death penalty, with the person on death row, ensures that this person will never suffer in this way again.

How are those bullshit excuses? The extreme emotional distress clouded his judgement. Hes merely explaining himself, he never said it was right.

We all experience extreme emotional distress from time to time. My grandmother's doctor missed her breast cancer until it escalated to Stage 4. I was extremely upset, distressed, and grief ridden. I was angry at the doctor because my grandmother had to suffer for 4 agonizing months because she died. My judgement was certainly clouded at times, but I didnt go after the doctor, or any random doctor who happened to be an oncologist. Why? Because I dont believe in revenge. He should have stopped and finished with "I dont expect anyone to believe Im innocent. Im sorry for the lives I took, and I don't expect any special treatment." That should have been the beginning and end of things. Anything else is justifying actions.

And we all know how fair appeals are. Wasnt one of the chicks who Charles Manson deceived into killing someone denied freedom decades after the incident and when she was close to death and visibly full of remorse?

He may have deceived her, I dont know. Im of the belief that people have something in their subconscious that allows them to determine between right and wrong, regardless of how convincing or manipulative someone is. Serial killers such as Manson target vulnerable people who are already at a place where they've opened the door that they've bypassed their standards of morality. I think it's wonderful she was full of remorse. What I care about are her actions that got her to that place.

The legal system isnt a fan of sparing anyone from their fate

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Then why did OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony walk? Because they didnt want to imprison an individual or put to death someone they didn't know beyond a doubt was guilty.

 

[JW'sGirl]

Would you be capable of forgiving a man who shot and blinded you, and cost you your opportunity to be married? Would you be able to to manage such forgiveness that you'ld be able to petition to save that man's life?

I'd like to think of myself as a forgiving person and I'd hope that I'd be able to, but I really don't know. From what I've read it really doesn't seem like he's learned anything. He's proud of what he did. The man is a racist and murderer and if he had tried to kill me and take away my life because of my race, I don't think I'd be able to forgive that.

If you were sitting on the bench, ruling on Stroman's appeal, take into account all that's been presented here. What would you personally decide regarding his execution?

100% I would give him the death penalty. He deserves to be executed for what he's done. If he were sentenced to life without parole that wold be eating away our tax dollars and if he were given life with the possibility of parole, he could right back out there killing again. By giving him the death penalty we ensure that he can't wrongfully kill innocent people ever again. It's not about revenge or teaching him a lesson, it's about giving security and safety to his victim's families as well as the rest of the world. Nobody is above the law and nobody should be able to take the law into their own hands no matter how justified they think their actions are.

What are your personal feelings toward Mark Stroman?

I think he's a racist pig who deserves to rot in hell. The killing of innocent people based on their race and/or religion is heinous and he doesn't deserve the free room and food he's getting in prison right now. When you eliminate scum like Stroman, you make the world a safer place.