Should Cena break Flair's record?

[Terry Gyimah]

Considering Cena is already a 15-time World Champion, one more title reign and he ties Nature Boy Ric Flair's record of 16 World Titles so should Cena break Flair's record and be recognized as the greatest of all time? Honestly in my opinion Cena should not break the record if anything personally I feel he isn't worthy of it but if anything Cena probably will break the record but Flair has had this record for years now but records are meant to be broken

Cena is not worthy but we all know he will but if anyone should have been the one to surpass Flair it should have been Randy Orton, Flair's former Evolution teammate and protege now he should have been the one to surpass Flair breaking Flair's record or even The Rated R Superstar Edge being the one to break Flair's record of title reigns if Edge had never sustained that career-ending injury

 

[klunderbunker]

We've heard this question several times and I have the same answer: of course.

I have no idea why Ric Flair is considered this holier than holy entity that we're all doomed to eternal torment for considering someone being better than him. Yeah he had a great run in the 1980s, but that's enough to say no one else can ever break his record? Why? What's so special about sixteen titles? One thing and only one thing: Flair got there first. It's like Babe Ruth's 714 home runs. Ruth got there first and since no one was ever really close for years, that became the sacred number.

I'd be glad to have Cena break the record so maybe we can stop having to pay homage to Flair. As in the guy with two Hall of Fame rings, multiple tribute characters over the years, at least three DVD sets about him, and every bit of praise the company can throw at him. Yes, I'm sure we should praise this guy who can't keep his personal life together for more than five minutes and often shows up drunk to appear on national television. Heaven forbid we go with someone considered the All American boy and one of the nicest guys in the sport. No, we must continue to praise Flair because HHH and Shawn worship him.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Here's the thing: there's almost no chance that Cena doesn't have at least one more run as WWE Champion. Unless Cena suddenly decides to hang it up out of the clear blue sky or suffers a significant injury that either ends his career or causes him to realize he's had enough, I see no way that he doesn't at the very least tie Ric Flair's officially recognized total of 16 World Championship reigns. I suggest that people make peace with it, see a shrink, rant, rave, scream until they're hoarse, but the sooner they accept it, the better off they'll be.

When it comes to things being sacred in pro wrestling, the last thing that was probably thought of as sacred or something that could be counted on as just simply being there was The Undertaker's streak. It's gone now, Brock Lesnar ended it, so I honestly don't see the big deal regarding Flair's official total being. In all actuality, streaks are made to be ended and records are made to be broken. Babe Ruth held the record for the most home runs in professional baseball with 714 that held until it was broken by Hank Aaron in 1974 with 733, with his career high standing at 755, and Barry Bonds eventually broke that record. He was probably juicing the crap out of himself, but he still broke the record.

Am I excited about the notion? Not really, but not because I view Flair's total as some untouchable, unapproachable entity, but because I'm just plain burned out on John Cena as WWE World Heavyweight Champion.

 

[Terry Gyimah]

Cena will break the record it is just a matter of time but I really hope that he doesn't because he shouldn't because of the longevity factor

 

[MR K]

I honestly don't think it matters, Cena has been on top of the business for 10 years, like him or not the guy is a workhorse for WWE. He has put on some incredible matches over the years. I get why people hate him but he will go down as a legend wether he breaks the record or not, his legacy is cemented as one of the all time greats.

As JC said, people will bitch and moan about it if it happens but there isn't anything that can be done about it. Cena is a draw, and the "guy" in the business untill he decides to hang up his boots.

 

[Navi]

Considering Cena is already a 15-time World Champion, one more title reign and he ties Nature Boy Ric Flair's record of 16 World Titles so should Cena break Flair's record and be recognized as the greatest of all time? Honestly in my opinion Cena should not break the record if anything personally I feel he isn't worthy of it but if anything Cena probably will break the record but Flair has had this record for years now but records are meant to be broken

You're right about record's are made to be broken and this one will fall as well. Is Ric Flair really recognized as "the greatest of all time"? I think it depends on which wrestling fan you talk too, because I don't think he is. Yea he had a great run and a fantastic career, but that's one hell of a thing to say about someone. Maybe the greatest of all time hasn't arrived on the scene yet for some people.

As for Cena not being worthy, well that's just a lie. John Cena has carried the WWE on his back now for the past few years. When half the main event scene left, retired or just flat out couldn't do it anymore, Cena was the one person the WWE could count on to be there.

The guy puts on great matches, works his ass off, lives, breathes and bleeds WWE, and he's not worthy. If anyone right now is worthy of breaking the record it is him. He still has a lot of gas in the tank and not only will he break the record, he will surpass it, and I don't think that in today's climate anyone else will. Ric Flair might be The Man, but Cena will hold the record.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Of course he should break the record.

Because what the Internet needs more than anything right now, is a never ending debate about how many of the unrecognized times Flair dropped and regained the title actually count.

I'll settle it right now by saying one more than whatever Cena ends up with

 

[THTRobtaylor]

As KB said this thread has been done to death a million times. Last time was when Cena unified the belt and gave the "Big Gold Belt" to Ric.

I do stand by my gut from that night, that gesture was Cena's little nod to Naitch and telling him "I'm happy on 15, you'll always have the record if it's up to me..."

Cena is at the position now where having the belt really doesn't do anything, it won't hurt him, it won't enhance him it's just dead weight just as dead as on Brock. Of course there is a chance he gets to 16 at the Rumble, only for Rollins to cash in immediately... but likewise he could do that to Brock just as easily...

I hope I am right for the reason that Cena's reigns in the main have been meaningless, every one of Flair's had a point to it... but it's like I hope Orton doesn't get any more or Trips... eventually one of those 3 will probably have to. But it really is time for the belt to go to other guys and let them be the champion proper... how can any of them carry the company if WWE won't let them, either cos the belt is on Cena or they're endlessly compared to Flair and Cena's monster tally of reigns.

 

[rmp0012002]

I'm a Flair fan but the number of titles he won never meant much to me as it just means he lost it that many times. A NWA fan will say Flair and a WWE fan will say Cena, to me Cena doesn't come close to Flair's body of work over four decades.

 

[Bernkastel]

Flair is actually a 22 time world champion if you were to count them all up. I suppose WWE really only gives a crap about the 16 WWE/WCW reigns Flair had. Which is a bit of a shame. On the other hand I really don't care if Cena breaks this "record" or not. At this point, with 15 title reigns to his name, he has the most longevity of any champion of the modern era with nearly 1,400 days as a world champion. Other contemporaries like Punk and Orton have half that many days. While others like Edge have half of that.

Point is Cena is already considered to be a super elite champion holder. Why not just let him break this supposed record?

 

[hatehabsforever]

Of course he should break Ric Flair's record. And he is going to do so. Comfortably. Easily. Anyone who thinks otherwise is slightly delusional and potentially allowing their dislike of Cena to cloud their judgment. Cena is still only 37 years old and is built like a brick shit house. Barring some unfortunate injury, he is going to wrestle for another 5-10 years, easily, and he will likely be in the main event picture for pretty much that whole time. It doesn't take too much of a stretch of the imagination to speculate that he will have two more title reigns in the next decade before he decides to call it quits.

Should he beat the record? Of course. He's been the face of the company for pretty much a decade now. There's no one more deserving of the accolades that he will earn , so why shouldn't he be rewarded with the recognition he has earned. That's no disrespect to Flair whatsoever. Different wrestlers. Different eras. Different accomplishments in different manners. Like it or not, but by the time it is all said and done in his illustrious WWE career, he is going to go down as one of the greatest of all time. And his list of accomplishments should reflect that, and they will.

Records are meant to be broken, and we have all witnessed records once thought untouchable be conquered by other performers. And this will be no different. Frankly, I wouldn't be shocked whatsoever to see Flair's number of 22 titles fall to Cena as well. To be the man, you've got to beat the man. And I've no doubt that Cena should, and will, do so.

 

[Mr.Maikeru_Sawyer]

WCW International World Heavyweight Championship (2 times)
WCW World Heavyweight Championship (8 times)
NWA World Heavyweight Championship (13 times)
WWF World Championship (2 times)

going by this(wikipedia) Flair is a 25 time World Champion, sooo Cena has a long way to go to reach him

 

[evadavid787]

Yeah. I dont think the ammount of world championships will dictate if he is the greatest of all time, the rock, austin and HHH competed for the wwe title with undertaker and mankind in the mix for years and then jericho. And all of them held the titles multiple times, but cut that group in half and dillute the world title because there is 2, and it makes it less outstanding (still great, he is an all time great) but still I think not on the level of rock, austin, hogan, flair I.e. the mount rushmore the post wrestlemania era.

 

[HeyYo]

Dumbest question ever. Who cares how many times someone wins a title? It's. To the number, it's the impact of the reigns and how much you advanced the company/business.
Look at Jerry Lawler. He won the USWA title over 30 times. Does that make him a top 10 wrestler of all time?

 

[Sundar]

While I think he definitely deserves to be the one to beat Flair's record considering how dedicated he has been to the company and in general how good a person he is (based on comments from peers) in addition to how successful his career has been, I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up not having a world title reign again or if he ends up having one more reign which turns out to be his last. I vaguely remember Cena himself saying recently that he hopes he doesn't have to break Flair's record and I'm sure HHH would ideally not want that either. During HBK's second run he was around for 8 years and had only a single, 1 month title reign so something like that may well happen.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Flair is actually a 22 time world champion if you were to count them all up. I suppose WWE really only gives a crap about the 16 WWE/WCW reigns Flair had. Which is a bit of a shame. On the other hand I really don't care if Cena breaks this "record" or not. At this point, with 15 title reigns to his name, he has the most longevity of any champion of the modern era with nearly 1,400 days as a world champion. Other contemporaries like Punk and Orton have half that many days. While others like Edge have half of that.

Point is Cena is already considered to be a super elite champion holder. Why not just let him break this supposed record?

True, the exact number of World Championships he's won is 22. As a result, some will always see him as such but, the problem some have with it is because some of the reigns he had aren't recognized and not just by WWE but by the NWA as well. For instance, Flair first dropped the title to Jack Veneno in Santo Domino on August 29, 1982, but Veneno refused to defend the title outside of the Dominican Republic, so the strap was returned to Flair the same day and the title change not recognized. Flair dropped it again January 6, 1983 to Carlos Colon and he held it for 17 days before dropping it back to Flair. Why this one isn't recognized by the NWA is anybody's guess. Flair then dropped the title to Harley Race at a show in New Zealand on March 20, 1984, held it for 3 days, dropped it back to Flair in Singapore, but it isn't recognized. Then, there was the whole fiasco of the WCW International World Heavyweight Championship, which Flair won twice, but neither reign is recognized.

Besides, it's not just WWE who only recognizes Flair as a 16 time champ, it's also Flair himself. In various interviews he's given when not under contract to WWE and while in TNA, he called himself a 16 time World Champion. TNA officials and commentators also recognize him as a 16 time champ.

 

[jtcooky]

I'm new here, so I'm not sure how much this has been discussed, but I really wish Cena would have one more title run as a heel. If he turns heel, I feel like him getting the record wouldn't be too terrible. Or have him break the record after he turns face again after a heel run.

 

[rmp0012002]

Flair does sign his autograph with the 16x added. The WWE world title has changed hands about 40-45 times in the last ten years so that doesn't add any esteem to the belt. The title has already been degraded by everyone and their brother winning it multiple times and now that they can make an angle out of it for Cena it's suppose to have elite status.

 

[MartialHorror]

Actually, yes.

John Cena has done a lot more for the WWE, while Flair's career as a whole might be the more fascinating. I think Fair was better than Cena, but Cena has more or less carried the company on his own. Stone Cold and the Rock were more popular, but they also came out during a more ideal time.

HOWEVER,

I don't think he should win it anytime soon. If Cena does break Flair's record, it needs to be a much bigger moment, a capping of an intense storyline where a victory would matter- not unlike Bryan's Wrestlemania moment. Cena winning the belt last time felt like he just got it because he was a safe option and there was no one else. Right now...I'm kind of getting that same feeling. Unless Lesnar sticks around till Wrestlemania.

 

[John McCass]

Yes, Cena deserves to break the record of Ric Flair. No one has ever been as loyal to WWE as Cena is. Personally,he will not like to break Flair's record cause he is a humble man. Cena carried WWE on his back for about a decade. He lives and loves WWE. But,his 16th or 17th title win needs to be a grand moment not like a throwaway moment just like he won the title at MITB 2014.

 

[mkw1962]

I say yes John should and will break Rick's record of 16 World Titles. John is the face of the WWE and has been for a decade, he is a true Champion. I don't think this really matters but I will say it anyway, John has won most if not all his Championships on his own with no help. Can you say the same for Rick who had his Horsemen with him and others to help him, nothing against Rick as a wrestler he was great but he may have cheated to win a few. I know this is wrestling and what the ref doesn't see, you win anyway you can but I don't recall John ever cheating or needing any ones help.

 

[wwesux]

Ric Flair is 17 time world champion John semen is 14 time champion and no he shouldn t beat The Legend Ric Flairs title reign I rather see it by HHH . john semen is a brawler and not in the same calibre as technical wrestler Ric Flair was. Its like comparing apples and watermelons lol . Semen is nowhere near Rock, Bret Hart, HBK, STING, Randy Orton etc. He is no more than stone cold steve Austin ripoff mixed with hulk Hogan

 

[LODemolition]

I don't understand why Flair has always been called a 16-time champ when he's really been champion 22 times (as I see others have pointed out in here). To answer the question, it doesn't matter if I think he should or not. It's inevitable that he will. Cena is 37 and easily has 2 more title reigns in him. Hell, it's possible it might even happen this year. So yes, he will break the recognized record of 16 championship reigns.

However, for the elitists/purists in this thread, I think you can easily put an asterisk on it. The majority of the championship runs Cena had came when the WWE had 2 major championships (WWE Championship/World Heavyweight Championship). Although he only held the WHC 3 times and the WWE Championship 12, it essentially becomes half as hard to have a title around your waist when there's 2 to win.

Also, let's talk about longevity for a second. Cena's first championship victory came at WrestleMania 21 in 2005. His last came at MITB in 2014. So that's 15 reigns in just over 9 years. Not to mention only 4 of those runs as champion lasted over 100 days (his longest was his 3rd at 380 days). 8 of them lasted less than 50 days.

On the other hand, Flair became champion for the first time in 1981 and for the final time in 2000. That's twice as much time between reigns as Cena. He has eclipsed the 400-day mark on 4 separate occasions. The 100-day title run I mentioned Cena achieving 4 times? Flair did it 8. And to compare his sub-50 day runs with Cena's...Flair had three less of those with 5.

Total days as champion?

Cena - 1,394
Flair - 3,722

Put the belt on Cena another 10 times if you want before he hangs up his boots. Flair will always be the greatest champion in pro wrestling history.

 

[FlairFan2003]

You're right about record's are made to be broken and this one will fall as well. Is Ric Flair really recognized as "the greatest of all time"? I think it depends on which wrestling fan you talk too, because I don't think he is. Yea he had a great run and a fantastic career, but that's one hell of a thing to say about someone. Maybe the greatest of all time hasn't arrived on the scene yet for some people.

As for Cena not being worthy, well that's just a lie. John Cena has carried the WWE on his back now for the past few years. When half the main event scene left, retired or just flat out couldn't do it anymore, Cena was the one person the WWE could count on to be there.

The guy puts on great matches, works his ass off, lives, breathes and bleeds WWE, and he's not worthy. If anyone right now is worthy of breaking the record it is him. He still has a lot of gas in the tank and not only will he break the record, he will surpass it, and I don't think that in today's climate anyone else will. Ric Flair might be The Man, but Cena will hold the record.

Most fans who watched in the 80s and 90s see Flair as The Greatest Of All Time, and the tributes from the guys who worked with him in those years read like a testimonial praise for the Pro Wrestling HOF. The best combination of looks, charisma, in ring skill, work ethic, dedication to the business, plus he elevated numerous stars including Lex Luger & Sting.

That said, I think at some point Cena will at least tie the record. Its hard to say how many more runs he has in him, at least good runs not a token one month a few week reign (he has a few of those already, but so did Flair, Hogan, HHH, and a few others who are high on the list). I don't think you will see it happen without some impressive fan fare and promotion, Cena isn't going to win #16 on a non major of month PPV or random RAW episode, it will be something that is built to and promoted as an event.

I actually think at some point we'll see him in a major storyline tie the record, get heaps of praise for it, and then get jobbed out of the title, blatantly cheated, only to try for "one last run" which would break the record and be an even bigger focal point storyline and probably involve Flair himself in a major role. Some of that depends on Cena's health long term and wether or not he wants to break it. HHH has been healthy enough but seems to have chosen not to break it himself. Hogan couldn't stay healthy or wrestle enough to get there but there is little doubt if he could have he would have. Cena may chose not too break it since he reportedly is close to Flair. Flair would probably encourage him to do it if asked, he's typically very supportive of Cena anytime his name comes in interviews.

If it does happen you can bet one thing....WWE will milk it storyline wise for all it is worth!!!

 

[MartialHorror]

One of the issues I've always had with Flair is how he spent so much of his career putting people over him- especially since the time I began to watch wrestling. Admittedly much of it might not have been his fault, particularly during Round 1 of his WWF career. He was also the victim of backstage politics during WcW. But he stayed in the ring for way too long and it's a given that his primary job is to put people over.

The problem is that Ric Flair, while he could still move, looked his age. To me, going over a legend means little when you're having a competitive match with a dude obviously past his prime. Kane in some ways might be worse, as at least Flair's strength always seemed to be his moveset, while Kane has been a powerhouse- whose muscles don't look particularly impressive anymore. I have to presume that in his prime, Flair would've wiped the floor with the entire roster (in terms of kayfabe).

At least with the Big Show, he still looks imposing and dangerous. Even Mark Henry still looks strong. Shawn Michaels looked as good as he ever did, even though I have to imagine age had effected him too.