Ryder's Popularity Marginalized By Booking?

[somehetero]

Only the WWE could take something so unique and genuine and crush it with one garbage plot twist.

I was APPALLED at the way Ryder was finally granted his title shot against Ziggler on RAW Monday night. By having Cena beat him, then talk Johnny Ace into giving him a second chance, then interfering to make sure Ryder wins, the WWE completely marginalized Ryder's fan base and his unique momentum. What's worse, they re-directed the momentum to Cena, who they apparently have to push as the most super of all the supermen in history.

That's right, it's not the thousands of people who signed Zack's twitter petition - who cheer for him throughout the entire show, who buy all his stuff on the website - who convinced the brass he needed a shot at the US Title. It wasn't Ryder himself, who has gotten the better of Ziggler recently on several occasions and picked up victories over other superstars during his run.

It was fucking John Cena.

Ryder busts his ass and gets thousands of people behind him with almost no help from the E, but only gets his title shot because John Cena "GIVES" it to him. Ryder can't possibly get a clean win over Cena to earn it himself, he has to get buried by Cena and then have Cena "feel bad" for him and give up his own title shot so that Ryder can get one. Even with the ambiguity of Cena's direction (whether or not he's turning heel), they still try to get him over with the IWC by making him responsible for Ryder's shot.

RIDICULOUS.

Another backhand to the IWC from Vince McMahon - "No matter how many of you get behind this guy or how loud you scream, he's only getting his chance because the corporate machine's front runner handed it to him. He didn't earn it. You didn't help him get it. He got it because MY GUY sacrificed and gave it to him."

 

[boywithbluehanger]

I have to admit I thought it was pretty low attempt to get us to cheaply cheer for a Cena segment when he gave his "noble" speech to Lauranitis.

The strangest aspect of the direction they went with Cena last night is that they've been embracing the fact that people don't like Cena. Why would they desperately try so hard to get us to cheer for him by making him help Ryder (us) out? Felt a little like unnecessary regression.

 

[RD_21]

Only the WWE could take something so unique and genuine and crush it with one garbage plot twist.

I was APPALLED at the way Ryder was finally granted his title shot against Ziggler on RAW Monday night. By having Cena beat him, then talk Johnny Ace into giving him a second chance, then interfering to make sure Ryder wins, the WWE completely marginalized Ryder's fan base and his unique momentum. What's worse, they re-directed the momentum to Cena, who they apparently have to push as the most super of all the supermen in history.

That's right, it's not the thousands of people who signed Zack's twitter petition - who cheer for him throughout the entire show, who buy all his stuff on the website - who convinced the brass he needed a shot at the US Title. It wasn't Ryder himself, who has gotten the better of Ziggler recently on several occasions and picked up victories over other superstars during his run.

It was fucking John Cena.

Ryder busts his ass and gets thousands of people behind him with almost no help from the E, but only gets his title shot because John Cena "GIVES" it to him. Ryder can't possibly get a clean win over Cena to earn it himself, he has to get buried by Cena and then have Cena "feel bad" for him and give up his own title shot so that Ryder can get one. Even with the ambiguity of Cena's direction (whether or not he's turning heel), they still try to get him over with the IWC by making him responsible for Ryder's shot.

RIDICULOUS.

Another backhand to the IWC from Vince McMahon - "No matter how many of you get behind this guy or how loud you scream, he's only getting his chance because the corporate machine's front runner handed it to him. He didn't earn it. You didn't help him get it. He got it because MY GUY sacrificed and gave it to him."

Come on dude, I can admit that it's making me cringe when they try to portrait Cena as the good guy who will give up his chance for Ryder and in the opening when he was still smiling to the boos, but if you are part of the IWC you got what you wanted dude.

Yeah in STORYLINE Ryder didn't get his chance because of the petition but we all know that if he is on Raw and in that match it's because of his followers from the IWC so stop reading into it too much. Vince his not out to get you all the time and he listened to us and you are still complainning and seeing things you shouldn't see.

Should they have booked it differently sure, but still I love Ryder and SOMETIME he is getting amazing pop, but yesterday he won and was celebrating to an almost uncomfortable silence. They will get it over and they noticed him because of us what more do you want? Vince to come out and say he is sorry and the IWC rules?

 

[vampirek]

I have to admit I thought it was pretty low attempt to get us to cheaply cheer for a Cena segment when he gave his "noble" speech to Lauranitis.

The strangest aspect of the direction they went with Cena last night is that they've been embracing the fact that people don't like Cena. Why would they desperately try so hard to get us to cheer for him by making him help Ryder (us) out? Felt a little like unnecessary regression.

I think it was more to do with what is important to Cena, to be liked or win titles, which a growing number of fans don't want to see for a long time. Fitted in quite nicely following Piper's Pit last week that Cena actually cares about being liked to the point he'll give up the one thing he proclaims he wants the most. Sure it made it look like WWE was trying to get cheap face time for Cena but see it as a whole rather than an one off.

I don't see the problem with any part of Raw, Ryder gets his shot and the character building of a new Cena is developing

 

[Aquaman6686]

Ryder already had two shots at Ziggler and lost, even if he wins now it doesn't really mean anything, he just finally gets lucky. Big deal. The only plus of hazing Ryder win the US title is that Ziggler can move into the main event scene where he belongs.

 

[mkman613]

ryder had convinced everyone on the planet he deserves a shot.
he is one of the hottest faces in the company. Ryders popularity was used to make john laurinitis look bad, and to help further the storyline with john cena and the potential heel turn. Ryder LOOKED GREAT in his match against cena, then cena gave him a HUGE push by sacrificing his own wwe championship opporunity because he knows ryder deserves it. Cena wins, Laurinitis wins, and most importantly RYDER WINS.

i dont see anything wrong with the way it went down.

 

[snakebite313]

Ryder already had two shots at Ziggler and lost, even if he wins now it doesn't really mean anything, he just finally gets lucky. Big deal. The only plus of hazing Ryder win the US title is that Ziggler can move into the main event scene where he belongs.

If i'm not mistaken, Ryder only previously had ONE shot at Ziggler's US title at Vengeance. And even then, it wasn't a clean victory for Dolph due to Swagger's interference. I DO agree that Ziggler needs to be pushed as a main-event guy and hopefully with the US title around his waist, it would help propel Ryder to that status in the future. I would prefer them to feud a bit longer cos I think Ryder's "face" really compliments Ziggler's "heel". Anyways, these 2 guys are my favourites at the moment, but if it IS Jericho come January 2nd then all bets are off.

Btw, does anybody remember the 'shaking hands' gimmick Ziggler had when he first started out. (Dolph Ziggler - i wish my name was as cool as that)

 

[kokoBawesome]

Cena giving up his title shot for Ryder is definitely within his boyscout persona, and amongst the most cheesy things I've ever seen in the WWE.

Not only did in render Zach Ryders petition completely invalid, it ruined any chance of Cena turning heel. Its not gonna happen, why would the guy give up his title shot for someone else (such a babyface move) only to make the fans he won over hate him the next week? Its not building the suspense for a turn, its poor writing at best.

The thing that was most "marginalized" by the booking staff was the idea of Mark Henry as an unbeatable monster. After months of destroying everything in his path he was taken out by an FU. To quote eric cartman, "...the fuck?" The big show can't beat this guy, Daniel Bryan can't hang, but after a boot to the face and falling off Cena's shoulders he's out for the count. Well, on the bright side they didn't imply that Zach Ryder or Mark Henry raped a dead body....

 

[BroskiOfTheYear]

COMPLETELY agree with original poster; at the end of the day, Vince McMahon got the big win and the final word against the IWC. It's a damn shame that he can't be man enough to accept when people can build themselves up to something without (or in spite of) VKM. JR has put up with so much VKM's jealousy and bullshit, so I guess I shouldn't have expected Ryder to get out of this cleanly....ugh, soo irritating though.

Maybe that's why Zack was lacking in the energy department last night, IMO. He's not stupid and could probably see that while he was getting the shot he worked for, he was simultaneously getting buried (strong word, I know, but it's the truth) in return.

 

[akathelaw]

I'm not sure what some of you want out of a wrestling show... You expect the show to be booked to your whims and ignore the live crowds that are actually at the show? Storyline progression has to occur somewhat slowly in order for the crowds that show up to follow it. Some fans at live shows watch every week, others are there for the big names like Cena, Orton, Big Show etc. Incorporating Cena into Ryder's storyline was a brilliant idea, and Ryder will be even more over because of it.

Another reason the story was good you all seem to overlook: SUSPENSE. There was a LOT of suspense in waiting to see if Ryder would get his shot. Cena ALMOST took the Ruff Ryder, the multi-time WWE Champion who's facing THE ROCK in a few months almost took Zack Ryder's finisher... That would have been a crushing blow to Cena, the kind a guy gets when he fails a wellness test. Seriously, if you hate Cena so much you think he should get jobbed out like Santino despite his immense talent and fan following, you should just quit watching Raw.

 

[afromania]

Geez, sometimes this anti-Cena thing amazes me. Your mad at him for giving Zack the biggest rub of his life? Fucking ridiculous. And what's all this about Ryder getting buried. I mean what in the bloody hell are you on? The exact opposite of buried happened last night. Zack Ryder got put over huge last night. How are you not seeing that? He controlled most of the match against Cena. 8 months ago he woulda been destroyed in under a minute. Zack Ryder pinned fucking Mark Henry last night. Sure with a little bit of help but I don't think anyone's done that in the past 5 months.

Everything that happened last night made sense for every guy involved. Cena was a nice guy and a good friend giving his shot up, and Zack Ryder got his shot at the US title with some help. Sometimes you people are fucking blind.

 

[Headman]

Vince isn't even thinking about the IWC. He's thinking about the people who fill the arenas. They went with the best story, and Zack is going to benefit from it. I knew while watching this that the people on this forum were going to get a bad case of the "Yeah-buts" and say "We like that he's got his match, but Cena...Ewww!". I've said this before, but Ryder is an underdog. This development fits his underdog persona, makes Cena look like a good guy and gets Ryder his match. If Ryder had won a #1 contenders match on his own, no one in the whole god damn world would give a damn. Throw Cena in there and the internet is a buz. Besides, last I heard no arm chair booker has ever done any better.

 

[The Brain]

Only the WWE could take something so unique and genuine and crush it with one garbage plot twist.

I was APPALLED at the way Ryder was finally granted his title shot against Ziggler on RAW Monday night. By having Cena beat him, then talk Johnny Ace into giving him a second chance, then interfering to make sure Ryder wins, the WWE completely marginalized Ryder's fan base and his unique momentum. What's worse, they re-directed the momentum to Cena, who they apparently have to push as the most super of all the supermen in history.

That's right, it's not the thousands of people who signed Zack's twitter petition - who cheer for him throughout the entire show, who buy all his stuff on the website - who convinced the brass he needed a shot at the US Title. It wasn't Ryder himself, who has gotten the better of Ziggler recently on several occasions and picked up victories over other superstars during his run.

It was fucking John Cena.

Ryder busts his ass and gets thousands of people behind him with almost no help from the E, but only gets his title shot because John Cena "GIVES" it to him. Ryder can't possibly get a clean win over Cena to earn it himself, he has to get buried by Cena and then have Cena "feel bad" for him and give up his own title shot so that Ryder can get one. Even with the ambiguity of Cena's direction (whether or not he's turning heel), they still try to get him over with the IWC by making him responsible for Ryder's shot.

RIDICULOUS.

Another backhand to the IWC from Vince McMahon - "No matter how many of you get behind this guy or how loud you scream, he's only getting his chance because the corporate machine's front runner handed it to him. He didn't earn it. You didn't help him get it. He got it because MY GUY sacrificed and gave it to him."

Let's see, your boy Ryder got a one on one match against the man who is by far the biggest name in the company during the 10:00 hour on Raw. He's formed an alliance with the top guy and has earned so much respect from him that Cena gave up his title shot for him. So not only did Ryder get a match with Cena on Raw, but he also has somewhat of a partnership with him and got his US title match on the next ppv. Some people are just never satisfied. If you were starving and I bought you a pizza you'd probably bitch about the toppings.

 

[dansaun77]

Um, if it wasnt for Zack Ryder's endless self promotion and internet show and petition, he wouldnt even be on television let alone ppvs. WWE are trying to keep Cena babyface, obviously they are going to blend him into Ryders storyline. WWE ALWAYS do things there own way, reqrite history. Some people put too much time into writing threads and overanalysing wrestling. It is entertainment and Ryder Im sure will be booked to finally go over at TLC so Ziggler can finally be elevated to the main event level. Ryder will devalue the title, he is not a top tier player, hell hes not a top mid card talent but he is in the middle of his biggest and only push so why cant people just enjoy this for what it is?????/

 

[Miz_Mark]

Zack Ryder is the man everyone wants to see get a shot at the US title that the heel boss is holding down, he goes toe to toe with the biggest star in the company, holds his own, comes within a hair's breadth of winning only to narrowly lose, then has to face a second match against the 400 pound monster champion and doesn't get destroyed, wins the match with help, and now gets a shot at the US title, and somehow this is marginalizing Ryder?

What planet do you people live on? Last night was huge for Ryder. He worked 2 matches against 2 huge main event talents, looked like he belonged in the ring with both of them, and then despite the best efforts of the evil boss to screw him, he got a shot at the US title. How is this bad?

And as for the guy who thinks this goes against the idea of a Cena heel turn, Cena is the upstanding guy who does right and stands by the company but continues to be booed by part of the crowd. What could be more fitting for that dynamic then for him to selflessly give up a shot at the title and still be booed? That plays in perfectly with the idea of Cena being pushed closer and closer to the edge by the polarized reactions.

And as for the idea of Mark Henry looking bad, he was injured going into the mat, fought a young up and comer, and then was blind sided and attacked by the biggest star in the company. Being pinned in that scenario does nothing to hurt him.

 

[justinept]

Couldn't disagree with the OP more. How does it help John Laurinaitis's character to just grant Zack Ryder a title match because of a petition? Isn't he supposed to be playing a heel character... a character unwilling to give the fans what they want unless it benefits him in some way?

How does it hurt Zack Ryder that his online petition wasn't the "on-screen reason" he got his title match? How does it hurt Ryder that Cena helped him?

Last night's booking helped EVERYONE involved. Laurinaitis came off as a jerk. Cena came off as the good guy. Ryder came out with a chance at the US Title. And the fans get to see Ryder vs Ziggler for the title at TLC. Who loses here?

Not even Henry came off weak for losing since Cena interfered... But if you think the outside interference weakened Ryder, then please look at past history because similar things have happened:

Randy Savage won his first WWE Title at WrestleMania IV because Hulk Hogan cracked Ted DiBiase in the back with a chair.

Mick Foley won his first WWE Title on Monday Night Raw because Steve Austin cracked The Rock in the head with a chair.

Neither Savage nor Foley appeared weaker for winning with outside help.

 

[JUSTINMFNBEEMER]

im not trying to shit on ryder, cuz i respect he has taken it upon himself to get over, but when he came out last night the crowd was dead, just saying, hes really only over with us, the iwc, normal fans have no clue who the heck he is

 

[JUSTINMFNBEEMER]

and one question, if he beat the WORLD champion, why the f is he worried about a US title shot, shouldnt he be chewing about a world title shot?

 

[justinept]

im not trying to shit on ryder, cuz i respect he has taken it upon himself to get over, but when he came out last night the crowd was dead, just saying, hes really only over with us, the iwc, normal fans have no clue who the heck he is

Guess there are more of "us" than I knew about. Seem to recall MSG chanting for him at Survivor Series. Seem to remember hearing that his merch sales trail only Cena and Punk ...

 

[JUSTINMFNBEEMER]

Guess there are more of "us" than I knew about. Seem to recall MSG chanting for him at Survivor Series. Seem to remember hearing that his merch sales trail only Cena and Punk ...

i would watch raw again and watch when he comes out, crowd was dead, yes ss he was getting mad chants, last time i checked though, msg was in ny, long island iced z...hmm, connection? and as for your claim about his merch being third, i highly doubt that considering within the last few weeks they just started selling his shit, i do believe rey is third, nice try though

 

[XXJJ]

Their are plenty of midcarders that are dying to work with Cena. Ryder working with Cena is a big deal. The only way Ziggler should drop the US title is if he is ready to start a feud with CM Punk for the WWE title.

Ryder youtube show is far more entertaining than his wrestling matches. He is shit in the ring. He appeals to the IWC because of his youtube show, and he is a goofy guy that kids will start cheering for like they do for Santino or Hornswoggle.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

In some ways, it just seems like this thread is another example of the IWC pissing & moaning despite ultimately getting what many of its members have been clamoring for months to see, namely Zack Ryder finally getting his United States Championship match.

To me, last night's booking helped progress several stories along nicely. As I said, Ryder got his US Championship match last night and it came about in an unexpected way. Even though a lot of people say they want more unpredictability in wrestling, I think what a lot of those people generally mean is that they feel that WWE storylines and booking should be done in ways that cater to their exact whims. Ryder had a solid match against John Cena and I thought they did a decent job of making Ryder look like someone to keep your eye on. Overall, however, it was probable that Ryder wasn't gonna beat Cena. How insane would it have been for Zack Ryder to come out with a clean win over the biggest star WWE has produced in a decade despite the fact that he's only really now come to the level of a respectable and over mid-card talent? Same thing regarding his match with Mark Henry. Henry has been the most dominant World Champion WWE has seen in a long time. Most people expected to see Ryder slaughtered and generally just screwed over by Johnny Ace last night. It was a nice way of putting more heat on JL, to make the guy look like a soulless bastard that plays games with the dreams & aspirations of WWE wrestlers. It worked.

As for Cena, I thought it was a unique twist to see Cena give up a spot in the WWE Championship match. It was unexpected and fits in nicely with the angle that Cena is currently doing in which he seems to be on something of a downward spiral as far as his relationship with fans. I hope that you just didn't want to see the WWE do something as predictable as to just have Cena grow more frustrated and fizzle out week after week with no break in which the sun could break through the clouds.

At the end of the day, Zack Ryder has his United States Championship match, JL looks like the corporate asshole that he is, Cena is out of the WWE Championship match at TLC and all this came about in a different but relatively simple way.

As far as all this affecting Ryder's popularity, I'm not exactly sure how. The WWE has used Ryder's association with Cena for a while now to strengthen Ryder's own presence and nobody in their right mind would think that Ryder was going to beat Cena last night. He could have gotten a win via count out or DQ but then look at how many would be pissed about how Ryder's big shot came about as the result of such a flukey win.

 

[justinept]

Seems like a pretty good pop when he WON the match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPDJuo3RYi0

As for merch figures... He was top 10 in the 3rd quarter for merch sales, which is the last figure WWE released. We'll see in a few weeks where he ranks since October. My guess is that it will be ahead of Mysterio, who hasn't been on TV since then.

 

[JUSTINMFNBEEMER]

Seems like a pretty good pop when he WON the match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPDJuo3RYi0

As for merch figures... He was top 10 in the 3rd quarter for merch sales, which is the last figure WWE released. We'll see in a few weeks where he ranks since October. My guess is that it will be ahead of Mysterio, who hasn't been on TV since then.

i think your misunderstanding me, i would love for ryder to get over, he has worked his ass off when alot of talent (morrison, mcintyre im talking about you) are way better in the ring then him. im just saying, i think, and worry, this is just a fad and fans are gonna get sick of him fast. last nights raw had way, WAY to much ryder, it seems wwe went from absouletly ignoring him to now jamming him down our throat. thats my opinion though, and opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. am i wrong? perhaps, but thats what i feel. i also feel if you win against the world champion you should be in line for a crack at that belt, not a lower belt. wwe imo should let ryder win, then have dolph turn on cougar and stick him up in the main event level, dolph is amazing and deserves to be there, but this is a ryder chat forum. honestly, ryder reminds me of the second coming of y2j, ppl cared for a bit then just lost interest.

 

[NthDegree23]

Absolutely. And Cena had to completely win the match for ZR and then join in his victory celebration. Who's trying to get the rub from whom, here?

But then I realized: WWE can't be this stupid - it must have a deeper meaning. The whole thing is a metaphor for WWE and Twitter. See, Cena represents the WWE and Ryder represents Twitter. People like Twitter. Twitter is cool. But then the WWE tries to strap itself to it and won't shut up about it until eventually, any mention of Twitter by WWE makes us want to throw a car door at an old lady. It's subversive. It's artistic. It's brilliant.

Either that, or the WWE actually is that stupid.

... Yeah, probably that.