ROH Is Underrated.

[Ghostboy259]

Ring of Honor. Independent, slowly rising.
I started watching WWE in about 2007, A little before Wrestlemania 23. I was amazed at wrestling. 3 years later, more of an insider fan now, I started getting bored with the predictable WWE product. I found ROH, and I decided to check it out.
1 Hour in ROH=1 Hour of full wrestling.
1 hour in ECW= 10 minutes of wrestling.
I was amazed. Never had I seen matches like this.
I was officially hooked when the main event was KENTA vs Chris Hero.
Never had a match like that(with the exception of Shawn Michaels and Undertakers matches at Wm 23,24,25) Made me get up, or start screaming at the tv like some old lady in a rocking chair while knitting.

I was in a chat room telling some friends about ROH when they said a comment along the line of "Yeah, but they go so crazy, there hurt after every match". I then proceeded to tell them "It's wrestling. Of course your going to be hurt and sore after every match"

TNA currently has been taking many WWE guys. WWE, takes ROH guys.
Here is a list of people you may know, who at one point were in ROH.
Mick Foley (Wikipedia says he was in there for awhile in 2004)
CM Punk
Bryan Danielson
Young Bucks (Signed with TNA)
Samoa Joe
Christopher Daniels
The Briscoes(had WWE Tryout)
AJ Styles
Jerry Lynn
D'lo Brown
I know there are more, I just dont know them all.

ROH also has one of the best tag team divisions right now. No, not one of the best. THE best.
No offense to DX and the WWE, but these tag matches aren't just A)one guy gets beat up the whole match, makes a tag, they win, or B) One guy gets beat up the whole match, makes tag, other team cheats and wins.
I can recall one ROH match, where it was an 8 Tag team Royal Rumble. Not for a title, just to prove who was the best.
The Tag team division features teams such as :
The Dark City Fight Club
The Briscoes
The American Wolves
Steen and Generico(broken up)
Super Mario Bros.(is that right? Player Uno and Player Dos?)
Kings of Wrestling-Chris Hero and Claudio Castagnoli

ROH World title. Prestigous. Constant defenses. Good decent matches. Good Promos too. Fans today are to caught up in the entertainment side of wrestling, IMO.

ROH is:
Jim Cornette
Colt Cobanna
Austin Aries
Delirous
Kenny Omega
Chris Hero
KENTA
Roderick Strong
The Briscoes
The American Wolves

Real Pro Wrestling

 

[G3]

TNA currently has been taking many WWE guys. WWE, takes ROH guys.
Here is a list of people you may know, who came from ROH.
Mick Foley (Wikipedia says he was in there for awhile in 2004)
CM Punk
Bryan Danielson
Young Bucks (Signed with TNA)
Samoa Joe
Christopher Daniels
The Briscoes(had WWE Tryout)
AJ Styles
Jerry Lynn
D'lo Brown
I know there are more, I just dont know them all.

I support ROH strongly, though I don't think its underrated. It is what it is, a smally independent company. ROH is regarded as the top indy promotion in the US. The workers do put on decent wrestling matches. I have to say TNA Impact is more entertaining to watch than ROH on HDNET. But I have to say ROH shows live> anything except wrestlemania.

Now the reason I quoted your list is because I have to disagree with it. None of those wrestlers came from ROH. They became more popular in ROH but none of those come from ROH. An example of a wrestler that is from ROH is Bobby Dempsey your next ROH World Champ.

 

[JayBriscoe2010]

ROH is the true alternative to "the crap" on tv. If you wanna watch Wrestling and not Sports Entertainment then ROH is the way to go as well as PWG. If you get easily bored and cant appreciate chain wrestling and at times slow paced technical shit then yeah it's not for you. I love how ROH can give me the perfect card with a great technical/high flying and nasty brawl all in 1 show. Glory By Honor V Night 2 which I think is their best show ever. Briscoes vs Samoa Joe & Homicide was a awesome brawl with good wrestling and exciting high flying. And both Nigel McGuinness vs Naomichi Marifuji and Bryan Danielson vs KENTA were MOTY candidates. I am concerned with the current ROH though as loosing all their talent is starting to catch up with them, especially after the recent losses of Nigel & Danielson.Im not a huge fan of A Double Austin Aries,I think Roderick Strong should be their champion now but whatever.

 

[TellMeWhy]

ROH is a good product but they're kind of overrated. All they do is put on long wrestling matches. Besides that they have nothing else going for them. Most ROH guys have shit mic skills, the characters suck, audience is a bunch of smart marks who take away from the show unlike the original ECW, any non HDNet show has horrid production, commentators are shit, most of the guys on the roster look generic as hell. So many things are wrong with it. If you put ROH on mainstream tv like USA or Spike, they'd probably draw a .7 the most. If TNA wanted to put on nothing but a wrestling based product with long ass matches, then they'd blow ROH out of the water. It would probably be the same with WWE as well. Besides that they are no match. The truth is that when you have a wrestling company, you have to have more going for yourself than just "wrestling". I give them credit that they're trying to be different but they can only do that for so long. If they want to get bigger, they're going to have to adjust.

 

[JayBriscoe2010]

ROH is a good product but they're kind of overrated. All they do is put on long wrestling matches. Besides that they have nothing else going for them. Most ROH guys have shit mic skills, the characters suck, audience is a bunch of smart marks who take away from the show unlike the original ECW, any non HDNet show has horrid production, commentators are shit, most of the guys on the roster look generic as hell. So many things are wrong with it. If you put ROH on mainstream tv like USA or Spike, they'd probably draw a .7 the most. If TNA wanted to put on nothing but a wrestling based product with long ass matches, then they'd blow ROH out of the water. It would probably be the same with WWE as well. Besides that they are no match. The truth is that when you have a wrestling company, you have to have more going for yourself than just "wrestling". I give them credit that they're trying to be different but they can only do that for so long. If they want to get bigger, they're going to have to adjust.

No mic skills? Have you heard a good Austin Aries/Nigel McGuinness/Jimmy Jacobs promo? Plus The Briscoes although redneck are pretty damn hilarious. I think maybe your so used to the glitz and glamor of mainstream wrestling that you ASSUME their generic/bland. A .7 rating would be great for them to start off as their obviously not in the mainstream. If TNA did the same as ROH they would blow them out of the water??? Well... on that. Half the good talent TNA has came from ROH and for a while TNA Wrestlers came to ROH once in a while to do shows but of course we know that isn't the case anymore. I know and understand the entertainment aspect of wrestling the glitz and glamor yaddi yaddi ya but it's good to know some Companies like ROH/PWG and some fans like Wrestling for Wrestling. They should call it something different if all the "sports entertainment" shit is so much better then what it was founded as and that is Pro Wrestling.

 

[OmegaDriver]

ROH also has one of the best tag team divisions right now. No, not one of the best. THE best.
No offense to DX and the WWE, but these tag matches aren't just A)one guy gets beat up the whole match, makes a tag, they win, or B) One guy gets beat up the whole match, makes tag, other team cheats and wins.
I can recall one ROH match, where it was an 8 Tag team Royal Rumble. Not for a title, just to prove who was the best.
The Tag team division features teams such as :
The Dark City Fight Club
The Briscoes
The American Wolves
Steen and Generico(broken up)
Super Mario Bros.(is that right? Player Uno and Player Dos?)
Kings of Wrestling-Chris Hero and Claudio Castagnoli

It's the Super Smash Bros not the Super Mario Bros
Anyways, I don't get HDnet so I cant watch it. Though I am quite familiar with ROH, I have plenty of dvd's, and I've seen a few of the HDnet shows. The work rate in ROH is unmatched, when it comes to televised wrestling. I do however, think that it lacks alot when it comes to being "mainstream". Unfortunately I don't see them getting any bigger than they already are. Which actually isn't a bad thing because they were alot better before their tv deal.

 

[X]

I love me some ROH. But as of right now at this moment in January of 2010, I'm afraid I'd have to say ROH's current product would much sooner fall under the term of "overrated" than underrated. If this was 2005-08, sure, then we might have an argument, but with ROH's fanbase continuing to grow and their internet fandom at an all time high, I really don't think you could call the current ROH underrated. SO much of it's best talent has been picked clean over the last few years, and with the final departures of McGuinness and Danielson the current ROH is really a shell of it's former self. I actually do like Tyler Black quite a bit, but when he's supposed to be the best you've got, we might have a problem. His match with Aries was apparently un-believably bad, I haven't gotten around to seeing it myself because I'm not sure I want to watch an hour long match in which apparently absolutely nothing happens.

Now, not to say I think all of ROH is bad right now. No actually I enjoy the product still, mainly because of mainstays like El Generico and veterans like Jerry Lynn, but I really don't think it could be called underrated right now, simply because as I said it's really a shell of it's former self right now. I mean the shows they were producing from 05-08 were just so damn good that anything that isn't excellent simply isn't going to measure up to how good ROH used to be.

I love ROH, but I can't rightfully call it underrated, not at this point in time.

 

[JayBriscoe2010]

Sad to say but I dont think ROH is ever gonna reach the level they were mid 04-the dumbass Silken firing Sapolsky back in November 08 I believe. They seem content with being a Indy and not evolving at all. I loved 06-08 as they were my live ROH Show years but that's been dead since they made Philly the impact zone, thanks again Silken. They lost their PPV but got iPPV apparently, isn't that a step back? And with the bullshit booking of Roderick Strong Im just slowly losing interest even though I got like 140 ROH DVDs that may just 1 day sadly collect dust.

 

[TellMeWhy]

No mic skills? Have you heard a good Austin Aries/Nigel McGuinness/Jimmy Jacobs promo? Plus The Briscoes although redneck are pretty damn hilarious. I think maybe your so used to the glitz and glamor of mainstream wrestling that you ASSUME their generic/bland. A .7 rating would be great for them to start off as their obviously not in the mainstream. If TNA did the same as ROH they would blow them out of the water??? Well... on that. Half the good talent TNA has came from ROH and for a while TNA Wrestlers came to ROH once in a while to do shows but of course we know that isn't the case anymore. I know and understand the entertainment aspect of wrestling the glitz and glamor yaddi yaddi ya but it's good to know some Companies like ROH/PWG and some fans like Wrestling for Wrestling. They should call it something different if all the "sports entertainment" shit is so much better then what it was founded as and that is Pro Wrestling.

Besides Austin Aries, Chris Hero, Kevin Steen, and Colt Cabana to a lesser extent they all suck. Kenny King is an okay guy on the mic but he really tries too hard to act cool and you can see through it. The rest of the guys suck. Briscoes yelling in the camera and yelling "MAN UP" doesn't make them good or entertaining on the mic either. In fact, I find them annoying.

It's known that ROH guys do not stand out and that the product is so reliant on the "wrestling" gimmick that they fall flat on other angles. Erick Stevens, Brent Albright, Eddie Edwards, Pelle Primaue, Roderick Strong, Tyler Black are all just bland guys on the roster to name a few. Can you tell me what stands out about any of them besides the fact that Stevens does choo choo like a train? Then you got the cornball gimmicks like Delirious, Grizzly Redwood, Dark City, Necro Butcher, El Generico. I mean wtf! The shit would look so minor league on mainstream tv. No question that the wrestling and workrate in ROH is good and some of TNA's roster is in ROH but TNA did not pick up the trash from ROH which is still there. Just because ROH is "wrestling" isn't an excuse to why they should downright suck in other areas. ECW was an alternative but was still so damn entertaining that it was MUST SEE TV and was referred to as a big league. ROH is just a lopsided product.

It also doesn't help that they're not pushing the right guys right now. Chris Hero needs to be fighting for the world title already not Tyler Black.

 

[Chauncy Talon]

One of the biggest thing that hurt Ring of Honor is they do not have a strong national channel. HDnet is not on every cable/satellite provider in the US. I do agree with you. ROH do have some phenomenal athletes, but are lacking one thing that make WWE better then all of the rest... They go live on Monday Nights each and every week without really messing up. Everybody slip up, but they do not do it repetitively.

 

[King Douche]

If ROH had a hugh television deal and was on a network people watched, and they advertised good and people started watching them, ROH could be WWE's competiton instead of TNA.

 

[TellMeWhy]

One of the biggest thing that hurt Ring of Honor is they do not have a strong national channel. HDnet is not on every cable/satellite provider in the US. I do agree with you. ROH do have some phenomenal athletes, but are lacking one thing that make WWE better then all of the rest... They go live on Monday Nights each and every week without really messing up. Everybody slip up, but they do not do it repetitively.

ROH is not live on Mondays. The show is taped in advance.

If ROH had a hugh television deal and was on a network people watched, and they advertised good and people started watching them, ROH could be WWE's competiton instead of TNA.

I think you need your brain checked. No way in hell is a show that resembles NWA or something out of the 80s going to beat TNA. That wrestling they put on is not enough. They don't have the storylines to back it up or the characters or any real big name star. They don't appeal to the masses whatsoever and that's the truth.

 

[JayBriscoe2010]

Your right, not being on a more mainstream tv station does hurt. I doubt they even get a .1 rating on that channel "which I dont have". I always thought they would be on VS for some reason, which DirecTV doesn't carry anymore thanks to corporate assholes from Comcast. I'll be getting TFC Tour and Aries vs Richards, The Omega Effect, but after that I think im taking a ROH break. This Philly TV crap has been a major buzzkill on me and I think alot of people.

 

[Chauncy Talon]

ROH is not live on Mondays. The show is taped in advance.

I know this. I am very sorry if you misunderstood my text. I meant WWE goes Live Each and Every Monday in the States. They have flaws in their shows, but they have the best production out of any Pro Wrestling Product, IMO.

 

[RVDgurl]

I love me some ROH. But as of right now at this moment in January of 2010, I'm afraid I'd have to say ROH's current product would much sooner fall under the term of "overrated" than underrated. If this was 2005-08, sure, then we might have an argument, but with ROH's fanbase continuing to grow and their internet fandom at an all time high, I really don't think you could call the current ROH underrated. SO much of it's best talent has been picked clean over the last few years, and with the final departures of McGuinness and Danielson the current ROH is really a shell of it's former self. I actually do like Tyler Black quite a bit, but when he's supposed to be the best you've got, we might have a problem.

When it comes to wrestling, I live and breath for ROH. I faithfully attend every Philly and Edison show and I tune in every Monday on HDNet. Alas, even I will admit that the roster that made it so great from 2002 - 2008 has been raped and the departure of Gabe Sapolsky was a bigger blow than anyone thought it would be. While I don't think ROH falls anywhere close to "overrated", I agree that it's certainly not underrated either.

ROH still has some solid ROH veterans in Davey Richards, Chris Hero, the Briscoes, Delirious and Roderick Strong. And of course, Austin Aries, who is the best heel in the business over the past 6 months.

ROH is also doing it's best to try and regroup from the Danielson/McGuiness departures and I think they're doing a decent job of building new stars. Kenny King is getting a big push, and Kevin Steen and Davey Richards are poised to be main event talent in the single's ranks. And let's not forget everyone's favorite "next world champ" in Tyler Black (for the record, I think Roderick Strong should be next in line).

 

[Trill Co$by]

First off... RVDgurl is my new best friend... Strong vs. Aries ftw!!!

And you know, people keep forgetting that ROH has one Ace in the hole... the same Ace in the hole that made Tyler Black famous and also ran a sick program with Lacey, in Jimmy Jacobs.

Personally, I think ROH should push Jimmy Jacobs as he's a great wrestler and can easily be a top draw.

 

[RVDgurl]

First off... RVDgurl is my new best friend... Strong vs. Aries ftw!!!

Done. We're bff's.

And you know, people keep forgetting that ROH has one Ace in the hole... the same Ace in the hole that made Tyler Black famous and also ran a sick program with Lacey, in Jimmy Jacobs.

Personally, I think ROH should push Jimmy Jacobs as he's a great wrestler and can easily be a top draw.

So give me the info... where the hell is Jimmy? I miss him. I want to see him. ROH needs him. Haven't heard shit about him in months. Jimmy Jacobs is a sick man and one hell of a performer. This guy cuts phenomenal promos and has solid matches. The ROH website teases that the company has been in contact with 2 wrestlers that the haven't worked for them in a while. Could they be referring to the return of Jacobs?

 

[JayBriscoe2010]

Jimmy is gone...He asked for his release and got it. His last apperance was at End Of A Age getting hung upside down. He's in EVOLVE now with his buddy Gabe Sapolsky.

 

[Ty Burna]

I'm not sure if you could say ROH is underrated. There's a point where underrated becomes not as good as it used to be. Unfortunately I think ROH is at that point now with the influx of talent loss they've received lately. I realize ROH may never reach the pinnacle they were at from 2002-2008, but it may take quite a while before they can be built back up. The ROH veterans like Strong, Aries, Steen, Generico, etc. are still holding the fort down, but they'll need fresh blood far sooner than later.

I love ROH don't get me wrong, but like X I'm in the camp of ROH is slightly overrated because of its growing fan base. The current product is not up to par with what it's typically known for based on prior years. That truly is a shame and I hope the pillaging slows down for awhile so ROH can build itself back up. It is in serious need of recovery from the losses of Nigel and Danielson. Also losing Gabe as booker was worse than everyone thought. Cornette may be able to help but they're gonna need some more help on that end.

As far as Jacobs go, from what I read he asked for his release and was granted it. I hope he decides to come back to ROH in the near future, his work on the mic and in the ring was excellent.

 

[Motor City Jeezy]

A lot of people are saying that ROH needs a network deal. I can see where you guys are coming from but... that doesn't really have anything to do with them being under/overrated or not. If the question was more of a "Is ROH underexposed?" then I'd agree. They've done amazingly well for themselves, though. ROH got where it is by pimpin themselves over the internet to get the DVD sales and by doing shows on the road. I mean... it's way easier getting to see ROH than it is to see TNA; it's way cheaper to see ROH than it is to see WWE. These are all great things.

Are they underrated? Depends on who you ask. I don't think so. They have loyal fans who realize that ROH is a great product and have supported it.

I think ROH is hurting right now is their talent losses, and to be quite honest I'm actually surprised this hasn't started happening earlier. They're still recovering from the losses of McGuinness and Danielson. I have absolutely no worries, though. Davey Richards is now back in the main event picture. Kevin Steen and El Generico could be possible contenders as well.

If anything, their tag team division is going to be hurting now. Not that anyone will notice because they have the BEST (I can't put enough emphasis on BEST) tag team division in the business, hands down. However, it appears the American Wolves might possibly be pausing for the moment as it seems the Kings have stepped up to feud with the Briscoes, the Young Bucks are leaving for TNA, and Steen turned on Generico.

But that's totally a different story altogether. Back to your point, I don't see anyone complaining about match quality falling off. ROH is right where it should be. We've yet to see what the big picture is going to look like from the Aries and Briscoes wins, but they haven't let me down before and I doubt they're going to start.

 

[TellMeWhy]

Why do people keep saying ROH is hurting from their talent losses. You've got Austin Aries who is a great charismatic heel as your world champ, you've got former ROH champion Jerry Lynn still around, you've got Kevin Steen, Roderick Strong, Davey Richards, Tyler Black and other guys who they can build up like Chris Hero, Claudio Castagnoli, and Kenny King. They're not suffering for talent. They have the pieces there. All they have to do is put them in the right places.

 

[JayBriscoe2010]

Why do people keep saying ROH is hurting from their talent losses. You've got Austin Aries who is a great charismatic heel as your world champ, you've got former ROH champion Jerry Lynn still around, you've got Kevin Steen, Roderick Strong, Davey Richards, Tyler Black and other guys who they can build up like Chris Hero, Claudio Castagnoli, and Kenny King. They're not suffering for talent. They have the pieces there. All they have to do is put them in the right places.

Yeah your right to an extent. But eventually losing so much will take it's toll as it's shown the past few months and what sounded to be a underwhelming Final Battle live stream. Im not as big on Aries as most are, but a Roderick Strong WT Win would definitely make me happy.

 

[theviolentmessiah]

I agree, ROH is under rated in my opinion because they put on the best wrestling in the US. It's as simple as that for me.

I don't think ROH will ever reel too much from talent losses, I haven't made up my mind on whether ROH is getting stronger or weaker but I do think that ROH has always been able to make wrestlers, whether or not you think these guys are ROH born and bred, ROH still made people like Punk, Danielson, Joe, Daniels and Low Ki.

Early ROH will be underrated for the relatively low production cost, lighting and arenas maybe not the best, but nothing else compares to the best wrestling I've seen of the naughties without question.

 

[Greenlight13]

ROH is underrated in two ways.

Firstly it's underrated in the sense that it is where all of tomorrow's stars are coming from. In my opinion CM Punk is the most successful new talent in WWE in the last 5 years and he came from ROH. Nigel McGuinness walked into TNA, stepped into the ring with the best pure wrestler in the USA and wowed audiences. WWE have interest in the Briscoes, Chris Hero, Davey Richards and Tyler Black. TNA signed Samoa Joe, Jay Lethal, Alex Shelley, and the Young Bucks from ROH. It's making stars when FCW is failing to do so. It's also presenting more ACTUAL wrestling per hour than WWE or TNA. While I don't want to sit through two or three straight hours of nothing but wrestling, I am a WRESTLING fan, not a big men talking fan. WWE give you storylines and entertainment, ROH give you wrestling, TNA give you... something inbetween.

Secondly it's underrated when compared to itself a few years ago. So many fans have abandoned the company and said it's gone down the tubes. I couldn't disagree more. Old ROH produced some of the best matches in American wrestling history, but they were few and far between in my opinion. I'd rather watch a show where every match is solid than a show with an amazing main event but dull undercard. ROH is more focused these days. The shows flow properly and the production values have increased. They're drawing more fans than they ever did back in the day and they are still bringing in outside talent as special attractions, putting on compelling and revolutionary wrestling bouts and elevating new stars every few months. In my personal opinion today's ROH will produce more big names than the old ROH did, even if those specific names aren't as good as the ones from years ago it doesn't matter. We need an entire company's worth of wrestlers, not two really good ones in the future.

 

[Ghostboy259]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. MY opinion remains unchanged. I watch wrestling for Pro Wrestling, not so I can watch a guy get his car ran off the road, or to have some cross-dresser win a Battle Royal to be Miss Wrestlemania. I think many guys will step up there game, to replace guys like Danielson and McGuiness.

It's pretty sad when you have freakin' DX as tag champs, and yet WWE's tag division is still a joke. Your probably thinking, what about Hart Dynasty, Cryme Tyme, Jeri-show,Punk and Gallows, and Legacy? It's all the same match to me! Just with diffrent Signature moves.
ROH on the other hand, you never know what to expect. But i've gone into the tag team division enough.

Guys like Omega, they are just starting their careers, and they have truly made a name for themselves. I would agree on the note that ROH is Under-exposed. But overrated? No way.

I truly believe that for fans of pro wrestling who want pro wrestling, ROH could be WWE and TNA's competition. . ROH is wrestlings future, eventually, WWE will be trying to scoop up ROH wrestlers. Same with TNA. They already are. I only hope that Danielson will gain some sense and possibly return to ROH.

Jim Cornette. Most people don't realize how important he is. He even mentioned how he was focused on teh future of wrestling, and when he watched Raw and TNA, he couldnt believe that he saw people with grey hair talking about what happened 15 years ago. Thats why i watched neither that night. I stuck with my daily dose of ROH, and that's all I need.

I can argue forever on ROH, because it's amazing.