"Prime Times" - Chris Jericho

[IrishCanadian25]

The Wrestlezone tournament brings up a lot of interesting questions and debates each year, often the result of just how many variables there are each year. Kayfabe. Gimmicks. Fatigue. Match-ups.

But one variable always comes into play, and in many cases, there is a different answer for different posters. That is the question of primes. In the Wrestlezone Tournament, we are asked to base our decisions on each wrestlers' "prime." When discussion Jericho, Shocky recently called it a "loaded statement."

So maybe it's time to ask that question - when was Chris Jericho's prime?

1. WCW, 1996-1999

Jericho was a 4-time Cruiserweight and 1-time Television Champion in WCW, both in his uber-face "Lionheart" gimmick, as well as his whiney crybaby heel gimmick. During this three year stretch, Jericho defeated Syxx, Alex Wright, and Rey Mysterio for his first three Cruiserweight Titles. Bear in mind, Jericho accomplished this at a time when the WCW Cruiserweight division was extremely deep and a central part of their show.

Jericho also gained heel heat by bringing "trophies" to the ring from fallen opponents, such as the mask he won by defeating Juventud Guerrera in a mask vs title match, Prince Iaukea's Hawaiian dress, and an armband from WZ Mainstay Disco Inferno.

Following this, Jericho began feuding with Dean Malenko, including the classic "Man of 1004 Holds" skit. When Jericho finally faces Dean Malenko, well, Jericho beat him too. The two traded the belt back and forth over the ensuing months.

After moving on from the C-Weight belt, Jericho beat Stevie Ray for the TV Title. It was following this win that Jericho started calling out Goldberg, and coming to the ring re-enacting Spinal Tap, with Ralphus (greatest valet ever) and The Ninja.

When Eric Bischoff, Hulk Hogan, and Bill Goldberg all refused to book Jericho to lose a squash against Goldberg at a PPV, Chris lost faith in the WCW booking and jumped ship.

WWE, 1999 - 2005

The hot topic in the Summer of 1999 was the mysterious "Millenium Clock" on WWE programming, which didn't actually count down to the year 2000, rather to August 9th, 2009 - the site of Monday Night RAW in Chicago. With The Rock in the ring cutting a promo against The Big Show, the clock ran out, and the action began. Jericho stepped out, debuting in WWF, against the biggest face in the world. Jericho would eventually feud with Ken Shamrock and win the Intercontinental Title from Chyna.

Over the next few years, "Y2J" feuded over the IC and European Belts with the likes of Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Perry Saturn, Hardcore Holly, and Chyna. After he'd finally dropped the IC belt to Guerrero, Jericho began a spat with the McMahon family and Triple H, claiming Stephanie McMahon to be a filthy, dirty, disgusting, brutal, bottom-feeding, trash-bag ho. A pinfall victory at State College over Triple H gave Jericho his first WWF title (and my first broken dorm room furniture in college I was so damn excited), only to see the decision reversed 15 minutes later.

Jericho would win a few more IC Titles before teaming with Chris Benoit to be the protagonists to the "Two Man Power Trip" of Steve Austin and Triple H. Jericho and Benoit won the tag belts, and this saw Triple H go down with his first quad tear. Then, the invasion started.

With WCW and ECW invading WWE, Chris stayed with his current company. However, with the Rock's popularity and leadership in the WWE at an all time high, sparks flew, and eventually, Chris was called out by The Rock for not being able to win "the big one." Jericho beat The Rock for the WCW Championship, and the next night, teamed with The Rock to win the Tag Titles, which was Chris's first double title-reign. Jericho went full heel by attacking The Rock, and at Vengeance in 2001, Chris won both the WCW Title from The Rock and the WWF Title from Steve Austin, becoming the only man to beat both Rock and Austin in one night and becoming the first Undisputed Champion.

Despite losing at Wrestlemania X8 to a returning Triple H, the heel Jericho kept on truckin', losing to Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania 19 in an all time classic. After that, Jericho was handed a kayfabe feud with Goldberg, but real-life drama ensued and the two fought backstage, ending in Jericho making Goldberg his bitch in real life. Jericho still did the job to Bill, though, at Bad Blood.

Jericho became a face again, feuding with a heel Christian over the IC Title Jericho had now won for a 7th time. He would also participate in the first ever Money in the Bank Ladder Match, before again turning heel against John Cena. Despite strong matches, Jericho lost a "You're Fired Match" and lost his job.

WWE, 2007 - Present

Fans were confused when some strange binary language started coming over the TV screen on programming. In the ensuing weeks, fans were asked to Break the Code. It didn't take too long for overanxious fans (IC25 raises his hand) to find out that the code loosely referenced a bible text depicitng the falling of the Walls of Jericho. On November 19th, 2007, Jericho made his return to WWE by challening Randy Orton, at the time the WWE Champion.

Jericho would not win the title from Orton due to JBL's interference, setting up a bloody feud between the two. Afterwards, Jericho won his record 8th Intercontinental Title from Jeff Hardy. Then, on June 9th of 2008, everything changed.

Chris attacked a prone Shawn Michaels on his talk show, "The Highlight Reel." It had been teased for weeks, but now it finally happened in a big way. To become a full heel, Jericho took EVERY aspect of himself and turned it upside down, becoming a dry business-like athlete in a suit, and tossing Michaels through a TV screen, injuring his eye.

The Jericho / Michaels feud was among the greatest ever, with Jericho even punching Shawn's wife in the face. Teasing retirement, Shawn instead defeated Jericho in a brutal Unsanctioned Match. Despite losing in harsh fashion to HBK, Chris went on to later replace CM Punk in the first ever WWE Championship Scramble, winning the belt just an hour after being put through the proverbial shredder. Jericho defended against Michaels in a ladder match and against Punk in a cage match, eventually dropping the belt to Batista. Jericho defeated Batista a week later in a cage match to become a 5-time World Champion, eventually losing the belt to John Cena.

The 2008 Superstar of the Year then verbally sparred with Mickey Rourke, worked classics with an aged Ricky Steamboat, and now feuds with Rey Mysterio on Smackdown, holding his 9th Intercontinental Title.

Phew.

So I ask all of you - which of these three Jericho-eras would you describe as Chris Irvine's "PRIME?"

 

[jmt225]

Man... that's a hard one.

You look at Jericho from 1996 'til 1999, and it's like looking at your favorite filmmaker or musician's early work. It's like... come on, nothing can beat that stuff. This is when I first became a fan. This is when I realized how awesome this guy is. In any aspect of entertainment, it's hard for someone to top the stuff that made people become a fan of them in the first place. But, I think Jericho might be one of the few who was able to do so. While his feud against Dean Milenko will forever remain my favorite Jericho feud, that alone cannot make me claim that Jericho was at his absolute best during that entire period. While he consistently had GREAT matches, WCW held him down, and he was never able to reach his full potential during that period. It's such a shame, too, because Jericho could've done so much for that company.

From 1999-2005... he did some great shit, but WWE like WCW just held the guy down and did not let him go all the way with. Really, his debut turned out to be one of the greatest in wrestling history, and what happens? He gets buried by The Rock, and then put in a feud with the has-beens in DX that no one gave a shit about anymore at that point in time. And after that... fucking starts getting his ass handed to him by Chyna, and I'm just like, what the fuck. Time goes on, he doesn't do shit, but then the IC Title stuff with Benoit and Angle started happening, and that ended up being some great, great stuff; stuff that I think made Vince realize he had a star on his hands. Then of course he would have the feud against HHH that had the tremendous Last Man Standing Match, and one of the most exciting moments in history, only for us to get fucked later, when he beat HHH for the Title on Raw, just to have the decision turned over later.

Once the Invasion started, I thought Jericho was heavily misused. Instead of Steve Austin, Chris Jericho should've been the leader of the Alliance and he should've been WWE Champ through that entire time, in my opinion. However, the Invasion did lead to some FANTASTIC matches between The Rock and Jericho, most notably at No Mercy 2001, so that was one good thing. He also had some great matches against RVD during this point in time, and perhaps his most famous promos in his career, when he would get on Stephanie McMahon on a weekly basis. Fast forward a few months... Jericho becomes the first Undisputed Champion in history, and it's like, finally WWE will start using the guy right. But, because of booking and booking only, Jericho ends up having a shitty reign that his character never rebounds from, because all he does for the next few years in hide out in the mid-card. There was some good shit here and there like his feud with Christian, but for the most part... it wasn't until he was about to depart where he started being used properly again, but of course.. by that time it was too late.

1999 through 2005 could've easily been Jericho's prime if WWE would've used him right, because he was top notch on the mic and definitely in the ring, but since they didn't... it wasn't, in my opinion. His prime has been since his return in 2007.

As great as Edge and Orton have been this past year and a half, Jericho has been the best heel the company has seen since Mr. McMahon in the late nineties, in my opinion. The guy went from beloved, to absolutely hated. His feud with Michaels was fucking spectacular the entire time, and he had some great matches against CM Punk during this period as well. Afterwards, he went on to have some great matches against Cena, and some great promos with the McMahons. And of course.. the Legends storyline would be next and that by far stole the show each and every week on Raw, when the show was leading up to Wrestlemania. And then there's the present, where he's doing AMAZING shit with Rey Mysterio, and continuing to be the best heel the company currently has. And there's still much more for him to do, like a feud against The Undertaker, for example.

Jericho is definitely now being given a ball to run with, and he's running non-stop with that ball. In the past, whenever he was given a ball to run with, the stupid ***** would take it right back after only a couple of weeks. But today, he’s finally getting his true shot and he's making the best of it, which is why today is Chris Jericho's prime.

 

[King Champion]

I would have to say that he is at his prime right now. He wrestle great matches, he is in awesome storylines[Punched Shawn Michaels wife and, made his life hell' took off Rey Mystero's mask]he won the World heavyweight Championship,and he was 2008 superstar of the year.His promos are my favorite right now he tells the truth and i'm always waiting to learn a new word.I like how he always comes out in a suit!

 

[Pepper Wadman]

I would like to think he's doing his best right now. I'm pretty sure a lot would agree. I think his latest feuds have been golden and his mic work has evolved for the better not that it was bad to begin with.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Um Wadman, no. Jericho whipped Goldbergs ass backstage in the WWE. If it was in WCW he would have got booted. God it is so hard for me to say. I really loved his work in WCW so I wanna say that era. But it is so hard to go against what he is doin right now. He is fuckin brilliant. He is the best heel in the business right now bar none. He is making Mysterio look golden right now. I'm gonna go with the current run.

 

[tLight]

I dont think theres ever been a time when I didnt like Chris Jericho. Well there was that time when Fozzy played live on Raw, Outside of that he's truely one of the greats.

 

[D-Man]

First of all, this is an absolutely incredible thread idea. Whenever ANYONE has a friendly debate on WZ between two of their favorite wrestlers, the subject of 'time frame' always comes into play. Most of the professional wrestling audience has an exceptionally short-term memory bank (myself included at times) and they forget the moments of a superstars career that made them who they are today. On most occasions, those moments are clearly defined as a superstar's "prime" and should always be taken into consideration. Bravo, IC25.

I have to admit that I was so 'pro-WWE(F)' during Jericho's time in WCW that I never got a chance to see him really shine in WCW. My interest in Chris Jericho was sparked on August 9th, 1999 after I saw (looking back in retrospect what I consider) one of the greatest, most important, and most impactful debuts in wrestling history. Once I saw the crowd's reaction to Jericho's debut (which still gives me goose bumps every time I watch it), I was kind of thrown for a loop. "Why is this guy's debut so important? What have I missed over in WCW?" Now, I had heard of Chris Jericho before. I heard that he was involved in storylines where he was nothing more than a whiney little bitch that tried to find loopholes in order to overturn his title match losses. But, besides that, he didn't seem very important to me. Then, I listened to his promo with the Rock and I was instantly enthralled. That's when I realized that I was going to make an effort to find some history on Chris Jericho. This guy was going to be a big deal.

Meanwhile, he was fiddling around with Howard Finkel, battling for the IC title, and moving through the ranks, while still maintaining his loyal cult-like fan base and consistant crowd-pops at every show. Every time he would speak, I would cut off the outside world and listen intently. (The only other person I ever did that for was the Rock.) I mean, this guy Chris Jericho was REALLY talented. So, fast-forward to Monday Night Raw at State College where I witnessed one of the greatest moments in my personal wrestling history, only to have it overturned 15 minutes later. The WWE hooked me... NOW I was officially on the Y2J bandwagon, following his each and every move and making it well-known that he was my favorite superstar.

So, now that my boring backstory is through, I can fully contribute to this thread by stating my opinion on which era I consider to be Chris Jericho's "prime."

I have watched countless YouTube videos, past WCW tapes and DVD's, and read Wikipedia cover to cover, but I can't find enough evidence to suggest that Chris Jericho's run in WCW can be considered his “prime.” Yes, this is when he rose through the ranks and really came into his own, but his first run in the WWE(F) was when he gained more momentum. This is when people began to view him as a mainstay in the business, as well as someone that would always be remembered. And if you asked me the question back in 2004 or 2005, I would easily have chosen 1999-2005 as being his prime.

When he left the WWE in 2005, I was absolutely crushed. This was when I first began to lose interest in the product, but I still watched. Every week felt like I was just going through the motions when I turned on SD or Raw. But once I saw those encrypted messages and fell victim to the leaks on the internet, my excitement and interest in the product grew once again. I remember sitting at Pub 46 with IC25 each month during PPV's while he and I would sit at the end of our seats during every match, just waitingfor Jericho to return and make another impact. Unfortunately for us, because of the excess of internet leaks, his return was delayed and Jericho returned on Raw to a lackluster response (but that didn’t stop me from marking out like a little girl.) But, as time passed, Jericho’s little “smart-ass rockstar” gimmick was not working for me and I thought that his return was going to be a failure. That is, until his feud with Shawn Michaels.

Jericho’s feud with HBK, in my opinion, is one of the greatest rivalries of all time. It was well written, well executed, and really challenged Jericho’s ability to completely reinvent himself. He took a sharp left turn from his former character, creating an uber-heel that could rival some of the most evil and sadistic heels in the history of professional wrestling. Just when I thought this guy was going to fade away, he changed all of our thinking and blasted all of us with a character that (I believe) none of us will EVER forget about. And I think he’s just getting started.

I feel like I’m seeing Chris Jericho for the first time… again. I love to hate this guy, and by the looks and reactions of the live crowds and posts on the internet, I’m not alone. To everyone reading: Chris Jericho is fresh, new, and just beginning. I suggest you all tune in and pay attention because I think you are all witnessing history. Someday, when Chris Jericho is inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame ceremony, when you look back on the past of Chris Jericho, I believe you’ll all remember this present time as being the most influential time of his entire career. I think most of you will agree… that’s the definition of a wrestler’s “prime.”

His prime is happening RIGHT NOW.

PS - Sorry about the novel, everyone. But I’m a proud Chris Jericho mark and I’m never afraid to express it.

 

[King Patrick Star]

This is tough. I want to say Y2J’s prime was when he was, well, Y2J. He had a great run pre-“E” and had a better run in the “E”. The thing that is causing dispute is, what is he going to do now. After winning the Undisputed WWE World Heavyweight Championship, I feel that it was the pinnacle of his success. How could he possibly top back to back victories over Austin and the Rock?? The only way I see that happening is if he did it again with today’s top dogs, Triple H for Raw / WWE Title and the Undertaker for Smackdown / World Title. I can say this, he is my favorite Superstar of all time and even though he’s “sober”, I’m still a Jerichoholic!!

 

[IrishCanadian25]

The amazing thing is, I am currently reading Jericho's book (for a 2nd time, mind you, being careful not to smudge the autograph) and he really seems to think of his time in the WAR promotion in Japan as his first prime. His match in the Super J Cup against Ultimo Dragon was actually the match that earned him jobs in both ECW and WCW, along with the endorsement of Chris Benoit and Mick Foley.

But indeed, the choice is clearly between his first and 2nd WWE runs. As great as he was in WCW - sometimes the only bright spot on their PPV cards was Jericho jerking the curtain against guys like Raven or Juvi - he really cranked it up to 11 in WWE.

I will also go with his current run as his "prime." And I'll do it for 2 major reasons: consistency and difficulty.

In both WWE runs, Chris had a feud that defined him. In the first run, it was with Benoit (and to a lessor extent, The Rock) and in the second run, with Michaels. But though he returned as a face in his 2nd WWE run, he became a heel and ran with it. The first WWE run was marred by flip-flopping. Face / Heel / Face / Heel. Right now, he is remarkable consistent both in his character, his persona, his attitude, etc.

As far as difficulty goes, imagine how tough it has to be for him to take the magnified version of who he really is - the clean cut, pretty boy, babyface rocker - and strip it all away. He's not playing a heel version of himself - he's playing a character so unlike himself that he has to totally reinvent everything he does in the ring. From shorter hair, to shorter tights, to suits and deadpan promos. The only things the same are the music and the fact that he never hits the Lionsault.

Plus, despite being the IC Champ for the 9th time right now, he's cemented himself as a perennial contender for the WWE and WHC Titles. Only a handful of guys can say that.

I called this guy a Hall of Famer back in 1995, and everyone scoffed at me.

<pats himself on back, Barry Horowitz style>

 

[Henry Hill]

as i said in the thread about the undertaker, look at the statistics. Its got to be either his current incarnation or his 99-2005 run, well actually in that run just until 2002 when he lost his Undisputed title to triple h at wrestle mania. He still had a match of the year candidate match at wm 19 in 2003 with shawn michaels, but he was shuffled away from the main event pretty quickly thereafter. i also thought while he still performed well in the christian/trish rivalry, it was beneath him to do that feud. i was glad when he got back into the world title picture when cena was drafted to raw, but looked weak jobbing to cena nearly every match, but oh well so did everyone else during that reign. since his return he had a good feud and good match with randy orton during the "age of orton" he also had the feud of the year last year with shawn michaels. he had a minor rivalry with batista that he got another title reign out of. but while he hasn't had as lengthy of title reigns but his character has been refreshed as it hasn't been before. his mic work is second to none and his ring work is fantastic as always. so yeah either his first wwe run or his current run has been his best.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, I would have to say the current run. I loved him since I first saw him in WCW around 97, and I was a super-mark for him in his first run. But in his first run, whichever role played you never actually felt he was the top dog. When he was a face and really over, he wasn't as over as The Rock. And when he turned heel, I dunno, he never seemed as hated as, say, Vince, or the nWo or whatever.

But this time around, the fans absolutely despise him. Did you see the abuse he copped walking through the crowd at Extreme Rules? He got attacked by fans at a house show! That's how good he is at what he does. He always says it, "I am the best in the world at what I do," and he really, really is. He is such an effective heel that my suspicion is that they are turning Edge face to feud with him - the two best wrestlers (in an all-round sense) in the WWE squaring up. That's my tip for Summerslam. No titles need to be involved, it can simply be for the 'face of Smackdown'. Anyway, I digress. Now. We are witnessing a great athlete, a great entertainer, in his prime. Enjoy it folks.

 

[RVDgurl]

Jericho has had such a successful career and is such a tremendous talent that it really is hard to distinguish which period would be considered his prime. I would have to say that his first run with the WWE (1999 - 2005) would be his prime. I think that the time he spent in WCW was stage setting for what was to come. He began to really develop his gimmick as a whiny comedic heel and hone his mic skills. His first appearance on RAW was epic, as he went toe to toe with The Rock. He accumulated more kayfabe accolades and was one of the top 3 guys in the company for most of that time. As good as Jericho is right now, I just don't think it can match his first run with the WWE, especially his first 3 years (1999 - 2001). He was just about perfect during that time.