Overrated or Underrated - Vader

[IrishCanadian25]

The fourth subject of the "Overrated / Underrated" debate is the man known as Vader. I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone who has contributed so well on these threads, especially new comer BamBam who does an excellent job creating activity on his similar thread, "Respect."

Vader is a man who went from being a legend in Japan to a Superstar in WCW to an afterthought in WWE. He has held numerous world titles and is often viewed as one of, if not the, greatest "Superheavyweights" of all time.

I want to know, from start to finish, is Vader Overrated? Or Underrated?

 

[hbk&triple h]

Vader was very very underrated. The man was great. He had all the strength of a Superheavyweight and the moves as well. He had great agility for a man his size. His matches are amazing. I personally loved his match with Mick Foley. That happened to be the match where he lost part of his ear. He was totally not used the right way in WWE. I think Vader defines what a great wrestler is. He drew heat no matter what and was able to wrestle more than just one way.

Vader is the best the best Superheavyweight ever.

 

[bambam]

Hey it's BAMBAM!!.....Irishcanadian25...i'm just trying not to step on your toes with my thread....anywho thought i would throw out my normal title information, awards, then my opinion..

Titles:
- CWA World Heavyweight Champion (3/22/87 - 7/87)
- NJPW IWGP Heavyweight Champion (4/24/89 - 5/25/89)
- NJPW IWGP Heavyweight Champion(2) (8/10/89 - 8/19/90)
- CWA World Heavyweight Champion(2) (8/21/89 - 6/30/90)
- UWA World Heavyweight Champion (11/22/89 - 12/09/90)
- CWA World Heavyweight Champion(3) (12/22/90 - 7/06/91)
- NJPW IWGP Heavyweight Champion(3) (1/17/91 - 3/04/91)
- CWA Intercontinental Heavyweight Champion (12/21/91 - 92)
- NJPW IWGP Tag-Team Champion w/ Bam Bam Bigelow (3/01/92 - 6/26/92)
- WCW World Heavyweight Champion (7/12/92 - 8/02/92)
- WCW World Heavyweight Champion(2) (12/30/92 - 3/11/93)
- WCW World Heavyweight Champion(3) (3/17/93 - 12/27/93)
- WCW United States Heavyweight Champion (12/27/94 - 4/23/95)
- AJPW Unified Triple Crown Heavyweight Champion (3/06/99 - 5/02/99)
- AJPW Unified Triple Crown Heavyweight Champion(2) (10/20/99 - 2/27/00)
- AJPW World Tag-Team Champion w/ Steve Williams (2/20/00 - 4/00)
- NOAH GHC Tag-Team Champion w/ Scorpio (10/19/01 - 11/30/01)

Awards:
- 1993 Wrestler of the Year
Also in 1993, he was in second place for match and feud of the year with Cactus Jack.

My opinion: Vader is very very underrated.... just look at the titles he has held, he made an impact in every company he walked into weither he held a title or not. In WWE he was in great feuds with Michaels and almost won the title a number of times. And before he went to WWE, he was in WCW and won the title 3 times! And he was bigger then Godzilla in Japan! Greatest SuperHeavyWeight to grace a ring, the man could move with the best of them. Very underrated, CASE CLOSED!

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Hey it's BAMBAM!!.....Irishcanadian25...i'm just trying not to step on your toes with my thread....anywho thought i would throw out my normal title information, awards, then my opinion..

No toes have been stepped on! I admire your ideas and think we'll make a fine team on the Old School board!

- 1993 Wrestler of the Year
Also in 1993, he was in second place for match and feud of the year with Cactus Jack...

1993 was a crazy year for him. He was frighteningly dominant. In fact, when you think about it, the year started off terrible as he ruptured his ear drum and lost the WCW Title to Sting He, of course, came back in a big way, starting the classic Mick Foley amnesia feud and culminating with the Texas Death Match, which Vader won with help of one of the greatest heel managers of all time Harley Race. Incidentally, Vader also won "Best Heel of the Year" in 1993.

My opinion: Vader is very very underrated.... just look at the titles he has held, he made an impact in every company he walked into weither he held a title or not. In WWE he was in great feuds with Michaels and almost won the title a number of times. And before he went to WWE, he was in WCW and won the title 3 times! And he was bigger then Godzilla in Japan! Greatest SuperHeavyWeight to grace a ring, the man could move with the best of them. Very underrated, CASE CLOSED!

His feuds with Ron Simmons, Cactus Jack, Sting, Hulk Hogan, and Ric Flair are legendary. It's a damn shame the backstage issue with Orndorff caused Vader to be fired, I'd love to have seen what he and Hogan could have done as faces.

Lest we forget, Vader is also (I think) the ONLY man ever to kick out of the Hulk Hogan legdrop at a one-count!

 

[Ogerz]

The fourth subject of the "Overrated / Underrated" debate is the man known as Vader. I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone who has contributed so well on these threads, especially new comer BamBam who does an excellent job creating activity on his similar thread, "Respect."

Vader is a man who went from being a legend in Japan to a Superstar in WCW to an afterthought in WWE. He has held numerous world titles and is often viewed as one of, if not the, greatest "Superheavyweights" of all time.

I want to know, from start to finish, is Vader Overrated? Or Underrated?

Yeah. OK. I know how this thread came about....lol I might as well give it to you even though I have made my feelings known already. Don't get me wrong, Vader was probably the most dominate BIG MAN to grace the ring. But, The way Vader is portrayed in the world of wrestling, I would say he is where he belongs.

Not underrated or overrated. I would not consider him a Legend in the states, But I would say he deserve alot of respect for his accomplishments in wrestling. Now, in Japan, thats a whole other story. I don't believe he dominated the States as well as he did in Japan. Japanese fans could make a strong arguement that he is a legend, but that didn't benefit the states.

Going to the WWE was his biggest mistake. They ruined his legacy all the way around. I loved that mammoth helmet thingy he wore. WOW he was intimidating wearing that thing.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Underrated. People think that just because he didn't have a spectacular run in WWE he's nothing more than a good big guy. He was awesome. He wasn't the fat Weeble that newer fans saw two years ago at Cyber Sunday. He was an uber worker in his day. By far one of the greates big men of all time. Personally I prefered Bigalow. But Vader was probably a better worker.

His WWE run was something of a dissapointment. I thought he should have had a run with the main title. And I was surprised he didn't. But That's unimportant. He's had more than enough classic Japanese matches to satisfy anybody.

 

[tbglover]

Underrated. During his peak in WCW he had some good feuds and some good matches. And since I've never heard anyone say that they think he was great it's hard for him to be overrated.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Personally I prefered Bigalow. But Vader was probably a better worker.

A lot of people would agree with you. As a matter of fact, I think I smell a new thread topic.

Anybody who hasn't had the chance to see Vader's matches in Japan and even Germany for that matter should make it a point to do so. I don't think Shadowmancer has featured him yet, maybe sometime in the future. We don't get to say this often, but WCW was the only US Company that didn't misuse this guy.

 

[Skullz Crack'Em]

Vader is underrated, mostly due to the fact that "smart-ass" wrestling fans think that all Super heavyweights can't do much in the ring and that only guys under 200 pounds can put on great wrestling matches, but that is not the case with Vader. He was a great Super heavyweight and had his fair share of good matches with the likes of Foley, Sting, and Flair. If only there were more Super heavyweights like Vader in wrestling today to prove that 300+ pound men can actually put on a good wrestling match. Taker, Umaga, and Abyss are the only three Super heavyweights in wrestling today that can prove that point.

Vader=Underrated

 

[Ogerz]

Vader is underrated, mostly due to the fact that "smart-ass" wrestling fans think that all Super heavyweights can't do much in the ring and that only guys under 200 pounds can put on great wrestling matches, but that is not the case with Vader. He was a great Super heavyweight and had his fair share of good matches with the likes of Foley, Sting, and Flair. If only there were more Super heavyweights like Vader in wrestling today to prove that 300+ pound men can actually put on a good wrestling match. Taker, Umaga, and Abyss are the only three Super heavyweights in wrestling today that can prove that point.

Vader=Underrated

I agree totally. BUNDY was AWESOME in the ring. For a big guy, he could move. But like you said, if their super heavyweights, they get no respect. While I stand by saying Vader is not under or overrated, your post is on the money about the big guys.

BAM BAM is another topic. I will leave my comments about him until the thread comes about.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Vader is very highly underrated. Personally I agree with Jake, in that Bam Bam was probably better, but Vader was a superior worker. Ridiculous agility for a man that size. Vicous, belivable (real?) punches. Was grossly underutilized in the WWE one of the great wastes of all time. Have to say easily one of the top 5 heels ever. Probably the best "dominant monster" heel ever. Very underrated.

 

[Slim Pickns]

Vader is underrated for two main reasons. First, most people disregard super-heavyweights as great wrestlers simply because they don't give the big dominant figure a true look. They only see them as an oversized person who can only be a monster heel. Second, his WWE run was terrible (my brother has an old RAW recorded on vhs and Vader lost to Marc Mero) and its seems to have tarnished his legacy a bit, eventhough it should not have.

Vader could be considered the best big man ever because of his ability and huge run as a dominant figure in Japan and WCW. However, I believe if Bam Bam had been given a run like that, his name would come first and Vader's second.

Vader was sort of phased out of WCW with Hogan coming in, beating him, and moving on to face the Giant, leaving Vader the odd man out. However, it was a bad time to enter the WWF as they were hell bent on getting Michaels over, Bret Hart was gone, and Yokozuna had already lost his monster status. Vader ended up putting big names over then becoming a lower mid card wrestler. A far far fall from where he once was. Due to his WWF run coming up during nearly every Vader debate, he is vastly underrated.

 

[SeriousProfessional]

Vader is under rated. He has put asses in seats on six continents and has won major titles in many of the promotions he worked for. Like pretty much everyone else has noted, he can move like a cat which was virtually unheard of for a big man when he first came about. Even as he got on in years, he could still pull off a moonsault like it was nothing. He could work with heavyweights and lightweights. Technical, power, hardcore. . . Vader did it all. He didn't hold a major title in WWF but didn't really need one to get over. Plus, I think he was held back by the Kliq who were gaining political power at the time. Not to mention his entrance used to scare the crap outta me when I was a little kid in the NJPW/WCW days.

 

[RabidChihuahua]

I think Vader is rated exactly right. He's legendary in Japan/Germany, but merely above average in the States.

To me, Vader wasn't a guy that I had to sit down and watch when I was growing up. Doesn't mean that I didn't enjoy his matches from time to time, but my likes included Flair, Arn Anderson, the Von Erichs, Road Warriors, Bulldog Bob Brown and Rufus R Jones and those were the ones that I absolutely had to sit down and watch their matches.

Do I think he's a good big man? Definitely. However, I preferred Bruiser Brody and Bam Bam Bigelow over Vader as far as big men go.

I will say that the first time I saw him do a moonsault I was freaking amazed, however.

 

[Kasey]

Vader was very underrated. Especially by the WWF/E crowd that saw him misused during his run. He had the physical presence to be the only credible super-heel of WCW during a couple of year stint. He is the only person who's ever been in a leather strap match that I actually gave a fuck about watching. Plus, WCW booked him correctly. Sometimes with Vader, the bad guy got to win. And win cleanly, too. He was a definite tough-guy wrestler who could make smaller guys look very convincing offensively but could also demonstrate his power ultra-well in the course of the same match. His Japanese encounters are great, too. His UWFi stuff was a solid example of stiff work that really pleased the Japanese audience (and me, too). Me, though? I got into him through WCW exposure and his matches with Sting were some of my favorites of all time. Starrcade 1992, Slamboree 1993, and Slamboree 1994 are amazing examples of why he meshed well with mid-sized men. He also had a match on Raw in 1997 (I think) with Bret Hart that was probably one of my all time favorites he ever wrestled in the WWF. He even made it semi-tolerable to watch Sid wrestle at Survivor Series 1997 (which is a divine rarity for me). I do feel that he should've been pushed heavier in his WWF days (particularly through 1996 and 1997 when his gimmick was still able to fit the company mold well enough). At least he got to finish up in Japan by whupping some ass in All Japan.