Occupy Wall Street

RockFan89

Closet Conservative and WWE Fan
I'm surprised that no one has started a thread on this yet.

So an increasingly growing group of predominantly young, jobless, college graduates are maintaining a continuous presence in New York City. They are upset about the growing divide in income between the richest of the rich and the rest of the country. Smaller spin offs of this group are taking place all across the country. I know everyone in the U.S. has heard of this already (if you haven't, then don't bother posting because you are way to uninformed to have a respectable opinion) and most people around the world have seen at least one report on it.

The goals of the group seem unclear. Some protesters seem to have a more nuanced position, such as ending Glass-Stegal, while others seem to want a violent uprising. Signs range from anti-capitalism, anti-war, environmental, pro-gay marriage, and other progressive causes.

So what do you think?

Do you agree with these protesters?

Do you think they will have an impact?

Are they just a reaction to the tea party?
 
I'm ambivalent about this movement. These people have some extremely justified grievances. Most of them took four years out of their lives to bust their ass and obtain a bachelor's degree, and all they have to show for it is a serious amount of debt (due to the ridiculous amount of money it costs to get an education in this country) and companies who refuse to hire them because they're "jobless." On the other hand, have you seen some of the people that have been featured during the coverage of this movement? Sorry, folks, but the days of looking like you've just rolled out of bed for an 8 AM after a night of sex, drugs, and rock 'n' roll are over; this is the real world.

I've never bought into the "a job is a privilege" bullshit that some people in America like to spew. If you're willing to work and will take great care of a job that takes care of you, then you have a right to be employed. So, if you're jobless but are willing and able to hold down a 9-5, go out there and protest against the corporations that have been given bailouts and enormous tax breaks but that still won't hire anyone new. Just make sure to do so with an appearance that conveys to others that you have the right intentions.
 
The problem with saying you have a 'right to a job' is that it's also saying that you have no right to choose who you employ. Once you employ someone their right to a job means you can't fire them, even when they're having sexual relations with children, heh except that's already the case in the teacher's union, they just get put on sabbatical and then take a job somewhere else once it all blows over.

These protesters are much the same as the tea party insomuch as they aren't really well defined in their goals. The Tea Party is getting pigeon-holed as a malcontent conservatives, and I have a feeling these wall street protesters will get a similar label to them only on the liberal side.

I myself am much more on the tea party side, but I don't like the tea party at all. The Tea Party is getting overrun with neo-cons, and that's exactly what I'm against. I myself am libertarian like Ron Paul (And Jesse The Body Ventura, & Glen Jacobs/aka Kane) and I registered as a republican for the first time since I was old enough to vote simply so I could vote in the republican primaries and vote for Ron Paul where he needs it the most.

I can't say I have enough information on these wallstreet sitins but I've seen the signs and they make me laugh because it sounds more like they're trying to do away with the technology that keeps us alive and living in a modern world.

I side with the employers here in that they have the right to employ whoever they want, union or otherwise.
 
The problem with saying you have a 'right to a job' is that it's also saying that you have no right to choose who you employ. Once you employ someone their right to a job means you can't fire them, even when they're having sexual relations with children, heh except that's already the case in the teacher's union, they just get put on sabbatical and then take a job somewhere else once it all blows over.

These protesters are much the same as the tea party insomuch as they aren't really well defined in their goals. The Tea Party is getting pigeon-holed as a malcontent conservatives, and I have a feeling these wall street protesters will get a similar label to them only on the liberal side.

I myself am much more on the tea party side, but I don't like the tea party at all. The Tea Party is getting overrun with neo-cons, and that's exactly what I'm against. I myself am libertarian like Ron Paul (And Jesse The Body Ventura, & Glen Jacobs/aka Kane) and I registered as a republican for the first time since I was old enough to vote simply so I could vote in the republican primaries and vote for Ron Paul where he needs it the most.

I can't say I have enough information on these wallstreet sitins but I've seen the signs and they make me laugh because it sounds more like they're trying to do away with the technology that keeps us alive and living in a modern world.

I side with the employers here in that they have the right to employ whoever they want, union or otherwise.

Firstly, having sex with a child if you were a teacher would definitely be a case of not taking care of your job. Besides being terminated for moral turpitude, you'd be fired anyway since you wouldn't be able to commute to work during the lengthy prison sentence you'd surely get. Secondly, I don't see why governments (both federal and state) couldn't employ the excess labor we currently have in the US by reinstating such programs as the Civilian Conservation Corps or the Works Progress Administration. Individual worker and company rights CAN coexist.
 
I love it. I have a theory, well, it's not mine, someone created it, called the pendulum theory. If it swings one way, it swings the other.

For about 2 years now we've had these fuckin ayn rand following tea party loons who are bitching about the tax rate on the wealthy (if you want to be schooled on the economics of why a flat income tax rate helps the wealthy, please disagree). They complain that, essentially, white heterosexual christians who were given every advantage in the world now have to work a little harder to maintain their family wealth. Now we have people protesting the evils of capitalism.

Keep in mind, I don't think capitalism is "evil" just that if left unregulated, it creats a steep class divide that only widens as time goes on.

I hope they have an impact.

yes I do think they're a reaction to the tea party.

Considering I'm a centrist (by world standards) and a liberal by this country's standards, yes, I agree with them. Gays deserve rights, killing people for the goals of a few people who run a country is wrong, we need to save the environment, and pure capitalism is bad.

I kind of wish they were a bit more organized, but when you're pissed sometimes you're irrational. I don't think there should be riots, but I do think people need to step back and look at what's really happening. The Obama admin hasn't been that bad, they were dealt a shit hand that because of the circumstances. The stimulus bill gets a bad rep but without it we'd be in a much worse position, that's coming from 3 of my econ professors in a very conservative town too.

Kinda rambling here but whatever. I'm just glad finally there is a response to the ridiculous "the rich are held back" tea party.

I guess all in all. I wish they were more organized. If you have a clearly defined front, then people back you more. however, the tea party and conservatives in this country in general scare the shit out of me because their economic policy only favors the rich. so anything that's protesting that I will generally support unless it's full on socialism (also bad).
 
There are definitely a number of parallels that can be drawn between the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street:

1. Government strife
2. Media treatment - the media has sensationalized both groups by asking themselves questions about the group instead of reporting. When they do report they focus on the fringe instead of the core message.
3. Message? - because of the media attention there is a lot of focus of the uncertainty of the message and who is really behind the message instead of the message itself.
4. Impatience - as Americans we expected both groups to have a clear concise message and plan from day one. This is unreasonable.
5. Longevity - both groups have lasted a lot longer than I ever thought they could
6. Fiscal Responsibility - although each group has a different idea about how to get there.
7. Stimulus and Bailouts - except the Tea Party was 100% against both where OWS just seems to be against the corporations and banks hoarding the cash they received instead of investing it back in to the economy.


From there the parallels kind of end. Tea Party focused more on smaller government and lower taxes, created candidates, were actually funded and supported by Fox News and the Koch Bros., and became part of the Republican Party. Occupy Wall Street seems more focused on wealth inequality, outsourcing and corporate greed. Whether they create candidates and where they get their support remains to be seen.

Regardless, both groups have legimate concerns. I just hope we can reach a point of compromise so that America can move forward.
Seems unlikely since neither group listens much to the other and everyone is such a giant fucking baby.
 
So what do you think?

I'm not blindly following this movement, but as far as what the majority seem to represent and want, I am completely behind them. If I could afford to travel to New York, I'd be protesting right along side them. One big thing I've noticed with these protests is the outright police brutality. Videos are popping up everywhere of people getting the shit beaten out of them for no reason. I'm not saying all police are bad, but the NYPD seems like it's not just getting it's payroll from the city. The good news, is that their brutality has brought more light to the protest, especially when the media isn't covering it well.



Do you think they will have an impact?
I HOPE they have an impact. Corporations have been kicking our economy's ass and in many cases, just manipulating the financial system for profit without actually providing a real service or product. It's sickening, and I'm glad that something that this is going on. It's sprouting other movements in other countries. All in all, I'm not sure if it will change anything. Might change little things, but with everything going on, I personally doubt that any serious change will come about without violence. That's not a popular opinion- but this has been going on for years, and it's been protested before. And it's changed nothing. But I hope it will.

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Are they just a reaction to the tea party?
I honestly don't think this has anything to do with the Tea Party protests. Why is this even a question?
 
While I do agree with the protestors and the basis of their occupations, whether or not they will have an effect on the policies which right now are killing off the roots of the nation is unknown.

It all depends on how far these 99% are willing to take it. And I'm not talking about violence either. These corporations and lobbyists who take so much pride in their fiscal power would think twice about their actions if the repercussions to them would be severe and evident.

How could anyone in a corporate position even consider giving themselves a bonus right now? If you make above 150 grand you're living pretty damn well, I know families that have great houses and lives and they live on just over 100. Most of these guys whine and moan when they have to give up a few extra thousand just to keep the nation from caving in on itself.

Now, acting like mindless idiots is something I don't agree with, and is what a lot of the protesters are doing. However, often times it's in direct retaliation to the police....but that's an entirely different issue.

As for if they're a reaction to the Tea Party...I don't think so. The TP seems more like a retaliation to Obama and anything else. You'll notice it's not a whole lot of people who think differently than Fox News in there.

The 99% movement, though predominantly Liberal for sure, seems to be encompassing a general frustration that is focused mainly on the youth of the nation, as right now we're the ones who have to go into the job world with complete uncertainty.

These 1% jackasses (sorry, but they are) are more interested in their own fiscal growth than in the continued growth of the nation.

How do I know this?

They'd rather spend less and hire international labor than spend a bit more and hire their own countrymen.

Now tell me what kind of "Trickle Down Economics" is that shit?
 
The tea party only attacks woman's rights. The Tea Party mind as well be the, "Women should have no rights" party. At every end, it seems they don't care about jobs. Everything is hunky dory, as long as women can never have an abortion.

I've been to the Occupy Minneapolis protests a few days and have no had anything to horrible happen. The police were watching us the entire time. It was an experience. If there were any crackdowns on the OWS protests here in Minneapolis, I would want to be there. I would fight with the rest of them. Not because of "Great injustices" but because the police have no right to.

"Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government? When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory. The federal government is our servant, not our master!"
 
I will preface my statements by saying that I am in no way shape or form rich. I have student loans up the ass and bartend to pay the bills.

What I see the Occupy movement as is a bunch of people who are pissed off that other people are more successful then they are. Can't get a job? Bullshit. You can go to almost any McDonalds in the country and get a job. Above flipping burgers? Again, bullshit. Don't kid yourself, McDonalds is a fortune 500 company. Work your ass off and you become a manager, work harder still you can own your own shop or get into an executive position. And believe me it's not just caucasion males that hold those positions. America is, quite literally, the "Land of Opportunity". If you're willing to work hard enough and be fiscally responsible enough you can become a millionaire. No doubt about it. So instead of getting pissed at and protesting people who have worked their ass off to get what they have, go out and start working for what you want. Don't expect others to give you everything on a silver platter.
 
ShotlyCrue,

Thats the issue.

You spend thousands of dollars on college. In my case, visual design. I've been looking for a job for a loooong time.

I've worked at McDonalds since I was 16. I am 23. I make decent money for McDonalds, when I started, I started at 6.15 an hour and I currently make 11.75, and if I want to move up, I have to work 90 hours a week in a salaried position which is bullshit, because you WILL have overtime that you will not be paid for.

I should not have to work 90 hour weeks at a McDonalds, just to pay off a diploma that I will never use in my entire life it seems. Am I pissed off because other people are more successful? NO.

I'm pissed off because they are successful on OUR backs, on OUR money in OUR country. It's not theirs, its OURS. Everyone. You, me, my mom, your auncle, the broad you screwed last night, the bitch with herpes and god knows what. Whether you think they are low-lives, or not, you should never judge someone. Period.

The rich, those who make over 500,000 a year, pay less than HALF the taxes they paid fifty years ago. If Trickledown economics works, why are we not gaining steam? Why are we going into the hole as a whole?

It's not directly related to a George Bush or a Barrack Obama. It's not a Republican thing or a Democratic thing. We need true reform, we need a new system because the one we got is BROKEN. Whether you know it to be true, or you are hiding it in your heart, this is a broken system that will not sustain itself.

I don't expect things to get easier, I don't want them to be. I just want to be a stronger man. I want to be able to provide for my children. I want to give a house to my wife and ***I*** want to be the person to do it. Not threw government help, not threw any assistance. But with my own two hands.
 
I thought the overtime was factored into the salary pay? You don't get paid the overtime in a traditional sense, but it is accounted for.

I'm not going to go in depth as to what my true opinion of this thing is. I honestly believe it's a bunch of shell shocked 20 somethings that came out of college and were expecting to walk into a place and get a job. Doesn't work that way.

I have a degree in archaeology, and I've done nothing with it. There are jobs in the field, I'm just not willing to move out west to find a full time job. Instead, I got a job with a small business, and within a year, I'm running my department and have been doing so for the last 9 years working 60 hours a week. I make good but not great money. Not what I want to do, but it keeps food on my table, clothes on my back, and a roof over my head.

We have a country of self entitled, self righteous people that truly have no idea what a hard time is. We aren't lining up in bread lines. Our poor are obese. Our poor have housing paid for them. Our youth believe they can spend 100,000 dollars on a philosophy degree, and then feel they have the right to complain they can't find a job and they are in debt.

Skilled labor, vocational schools. People will need a plumber, people will need electricians. These are jobs people should be doing, and they aren't. There are jobs available in this country, it's just jobs that people feel they are too good to be doing.

The power is in the hands of the people. The "greedy corporations" wouldn't have the power if we didn't keep buying the shit they produced. We created the problem, and we can change it. It's simple, don't bitch about big companies while posting on Facebook, using your IWhatever to record it, etc. Don't buy the products, don't use the banks, don't use you're credit card.

Keep your money in a local bank, shop locally, buy American made products. This is all stuff we could be doing, but we don't because it's not convenient. If you want real change, making a tent city in a public park isn't the answer. If you want real change prepare to be inconvenienced. If you want real change, convince the majority that you aren't a bunch of lazy, self entitled hippies.
 
I thought the overtime was factored into the salary pay? You don't get paid the overtime in a traditional sense, but it is accounted for.

I'm not going to go in depth as to what my true opinion of this thing is. I honestly believe it's a bunch of shell shocked 20 somethings that came out of college and were expecting to walk into a place and get a job. Doesn't work that way.

OWS has strong military support from people who were in it. The man who was shot by Oakland police, wasn't a 20 something....

We have a country of self entitled, self righteous people that truly have no idea what a hard time is. We aren't lining up in bread lines. Our poor are obese. Our poor have housing paid for them. Our youth believe they can spend 100,000 dollars on a philosophy degree, and then feel they have the right to complain they can't find a job and they are in debt.

So, if its our fault we are in debt. By that same characterization, its the corporations fault they were in debt also. They received a bail-out. Where the hell is mine? Our youth sees the BULLSHIT, from the older generation. The generation before mine left us with this crippling debt, crumbling infrastructure and they want us to fund their social security, even though they did not earn it. Earning it means, you've balanced a budget, saved the money that's been put aside and you deserve it.

The generation before us was greedy, not that we aren't. Greedy in that they sold our futures for their today.

Skilled labor, vocational schools. People will need a plumber, people will need electricians. These are jobs people should be doing, and they aren't. There are jobs available in this country, it's just jobs that people feel they are too good to be doing.

No disagreement.

[The power is in the hands of the people. The "greedy corporations" wouldn't have the power if we didn't keep buying the shit they produced. We created the problem, and we can change it. It's simple, don't bitch about big companies while posting on Facebook, using your IWhatever to record it, etc. Don't buy the products, don't use the banks, don't use you're credit card.

You can't do that. They own everything. You HAVE to have a credit card these days. It's a must. Why? How are you getting that auto-loan? Ever have a dream to buy a house one day? You are going threw a bank, getting that loan. The banks have made it impossible to live day by day without being effected by them.

Keep your money in a local bank, shop locally, buy American made products. This is all stuff we could be doing, but we don't because it's not convenient. If you want real change, making a tent city in a public park isn't the answer. If you want real change prepare to be inconvenienced. If you want real change, convince the majority that you aren't a bunch of lazy, self entitled hippies.

These protests are a beginning. They have made a small change, nothing yet. The country is to much of a police state to get anything truly revolutionary done; which short of revolution, will never solve our problems.


The poor keep paying while the rich hold out their hands collecting.
 
OWS has strong military support from people who were in it. The man who was shot by Oakland police, wasn't a 20 something....

And there are plenty of military personal that look at this and laugh. There is a movement from service men calling themselves the 1% because they are the ones serving this country. I'll post things specifics if you like, but there are plenty of military members that are openly mocking this movement.


So, if its our fault we are in debt. By that same characterization, its the corporations fault they were in debt also. They received a bail-out. Where the hell is mine? Our youth sees the BULLSHIT, from the older generation. The generation before mine left us with this crippling debt, crumbling infrastructure and they want us to fund their social security, even though they did not earn it. Earning it means, you've balanced a budget, saved the money that's been put aside and you deserve it.

I'm all for a balanced budget, and I'm completely in agreement that the Baby Boomers have fucked this country up in ways we're going to be paying for for a very long time. I hate the fact that companies got a bail out, business should fail if they can't make it. Any business that took a handout should be subject to the government and it's rules at that point. Private businesses that remain private can do whatever they want with their money. I whole heartedly agree that our countries infrastructure is crumbling, but that has more to do with Big Government then Big Corporation.

The generation before us was greedy, not that we aren't. Greedy in that they sold our futures for their today.

Unfortunately we will have to pay for the "sins of our fathers". Our country is reaping what it sewed. We wanted cheap products, our companies shipped jobs over seas. We complain the jobs are gone, we helped create the monster. There is plenty of blame to go around to everyone.


You can't do that. They own everything. You HAVE to have a credit card these days. It's a must. Why? How are you getting that auto-loan? Ever have a dream to buy a house one day? You are going threw a bank, getting that loan. The banks have made it impossible to live day by day without being effected by them.

It used to be mandatory that you had at least 20% for a downpayment on certain loans. A big part of the problem (I'll throw one out there) is the fair Housing Act. Pretty much designed to get everyone into a house. Awesome, housing controls our economy as it is a huge part. The problem, people getting houses they can't afford with no money put into it. If you put 20% down on a house (like they should have) you are less likely to either get a house you can't afford, or walk away from said house if you've already invested into it. The Banks are as much screwed by the people as the Banks are screwing over the people. People aren't able to afford houses they shouldn't own, so the banks in turn raise money every where else (credit card interest). It's a crappy situation, but this is where we are. People need to pay their bills, and banks need to be more willing to help people out. This is obvious, but neither side wants to concede anything.



These protests are a beginning. They have made a small change, nothing yet. The country is to much of a police state to get anything truly revolutionary done; which short of revolution, will never solve our problems.

A police state, really? How can you sleep at night without worrying about the cops knocking your door down? Honestly, I've read this (not just from you), and I laugh all the time. Aren't these the same people that we admire for running into danger zones to save our fellow citizens?

I'm not naive enough to believe that there isn't corruption, but to think it's a huge problem is a huge overstatement. These are officers of the law, and they enforce laws. Occupy actually has the support of many unions (police included).

What's the point in staying in public parks over night? You know whose watching at 3 in the morning, no one. You're not going to prove a point by staying in a public park during hours you're not supposed to be there. The laws weren't suddenly written because Occupy kids decided they were going to use public parks as places of protest. The laws are already on the books that this park closes at this time. Just because Occupy believes that the law doesn't apply to them, doesn't mean that our police officers are Facists when they are inevitably forced to enforce the law.


The poor keep paying while the rich hold out their hands collecting.

Our poor they have more access to food and public housing then ever before? Our poor that have better welfare then ever before? There is corruption at the top of the food change, but to believe there isn't an equally proportional amount of corruption on the bottom is just as naive.

There are people in all walks of life, rich or poor, black or white, that will take advantage of whatever system they are living in. To hold the rich accountable for the problems in this country is only holding a small portion of the people accountable for the problems with this country.
 
I think their hearts are in the right place but they lack unity, civility, and organization. getting beat by police officers isnt going to change the way corporate America is run. If they want a change maybe they should for their own political party or something. Its getting annoying that trains are being delayed on their account. Rich people dont take trains, normal people do. When they mess with the MTA the only people who suffer are the 99%.

And in all honesty its not about being mad at people because they're successful. Its just that they have the ability to serve as America's back bone and instead decide to find ways to decrease the amount of taxes they have to pay, leaving America on the shoulders of the working class. Even Warren Buffet (I think its him) find the situation ridiculous. These corporations have an abundance of money and there are people living in the streets and looking for jobs. And as far as jobs go, as long as your young its all good. A 60-80 year old person whos been laid off as a result of budget cuts, lets say a teacher, might not get hired immediately by another school and certainly wont be hired by McDonalds.
 
What I see the Occupy movement as is a bunch of people who are pissed off that other people are more successful then they are. Can't get a job? Bullshit. You can go to almost any McDonalds in the country and get a job. Above flipping burgers? Again, bullshit. Don't kid yourself, McDonalds is a fortune 500 company. Work your ass off and you become a manager, work harder still you can own your own shop or get into an executive position. And believe me it's not just caucasion males that hold those positions. America is, quite literally, the "Land of Opportunity". If you're willing to work hard enough and be fiscally responsible enough you can become a millionaire. No doubt about it. So instead of getting pissed at and protesting people who have worked their ass off to get what they have, go out and start working for what you want. Don't expect others to give you everything on a silver platter.

The main complaint from OWS isn't that there are people making millions of dollars, it's that everything is being catered to the rich and everything is slowly being taken away from the middle class and poor, and it's all due to corruption in the government. Some people are still successful in spite of this, good for you, shit for everybody else. "Get a job" is the lamest excuse for disliking the OWS movement.


It's not directly related to a George Bush or a Barrack Obama. It's not a Republican thing or a Democratic thing. We need true reform, we need a new system because the one we got is BROKEN. Whether you know it to be true, or you are hiding it in your heart, this is a broken system that will not sustain itself.

It is a Republican or Democrat thing. Democrats have no backbone and cave every time the GOP complains, and the GOP look out for the rich and no one else. "We have to balance the budget, but let's not raise taxes. Instead, let's cut programs for the middle class and the poor, but then lets cut taxes for the rich! Brilliant!" Democrats and Republicans are corrupt, but Republicans are far, far more comfortable fucking the middle class and poor.
 

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