NBA: Better or Worse?

[SSJPhenom]

I've talked about it before but now, I want to discuss the topic with other sports fans. We all know that the days of teams tossing the ball in to their dominant big man and winning the game on set plays and traditional half court offense are pretty much over. So what I was wondering; Do you guys think that the NBA is better now then it was in the 80s and 90s or is it worse?

In the 80's and 90's and hell, even before that, the NBA game was won by having smart and tough, both mentally and physically, players and every good team had to have a good big man. The Celtics had Robert Parish and Kevin Mchale. The Lakers had Kurt Rambis and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar; then later Shaq. The Sixers had Moses Malone. The Bad Boy Pistons had Dennis Rodman, who would later be apart of the most successful team in history, the 95-96 Bulls. The Rockets had the Dream Hakeem Olajuwon. The Jazz had Karl Malone. The Spurs had David Robinson and later Tim Duncan. The Knicks had Patrick Ewing. I mean, we could go down this list all day. If you were a successful team in the NBA back in the day, you had a good/great big man. Was that the only requirement for success? No, of course not, however, it was a prerequisite for success. These were traditional big men too. All of those guys that I listed above, they all could play with their back to the basket. They didn't want to step out and shoot a long jumper or a 3 pointer. Some could, but they never had too. They played physical dominating basketball. Also, defense was a lot tougher back then as well. You could actually touch the ball handler and play didn't stop every few seconds for a foul. If a person could dominate the game back then, then they were truly great.

What do we have now? We have big men who play like guards. Who would rather step out and shoot a jumper then to mix it up in the paint and get an easy 2 points. I mean, we have 7 footers in the NBA now that can't average 10 or more rebounds a game. I think if you were a 7 footer back then and couldn't rebound you couldn't play. Now the ball handler can't be touched, which is why guards are dominating the game now. I mean, through out all of the 80's, there were really only 2 point guards that stood out. Magic Johnson and Isiah Thomas. Now we have an all star worthy point guard on just about every team. Like I said, big men ruled the game back in the day, which what makes the things that Jordan did so impressive. I mean, I hate to tell all of you who like to compare Jordan to Kobe or Lebron this, but if Jordan played today with today's rules; they'd probably ban him from the league because he'd be averaging around 50 ppg. He was close to divine back then, if he played now, he'd truly be a god on the court. Lebron might actually have been able to play back then. His skill set is one that would have allowed him to be successful in that era, however, and I hate to say this, but people like Curry would have been next to nothing back then. I mean now, players complain at every single call and if they have a stubbed toe, they can't play. It truly is a different time in the NBA then from when I was a kid.

So, again, I ask what do you guys think? Is the NBA better now or was it better back in the day? Let me know your opinions.

 

[Khalifa]

I really think it depends what type of basketball you like. For example I'm not sure this game style is the way players from the 80's would be coaching it. I am the same. I am not a fan of all these three pointers being jacked up. I miss when wing players just weren't 3 and D guys. I miss trying to build twin towers at your 4 and 5. I miss teams only jacking up 7 three pointers a game.

That is not to say that the way NBA is now that it isn't a good product. You truly know that on any given night anything can happen. There are more big lead chase downs than ever and not the main franchises are running the NBA. Golden State, San Antonio and Oklahoma City are on top of the NBA instead of Lakers, Celtics or Knicks. There is definitely a number of contenders from each conference and there are awesome players in just about every city.

So in terms of teams and players I think it's not too different than a couple of decades ago. It's just the game style has changed dramatically. In my opinion it appeals to people who haven't watched the NBA before more than what it did 20 years ago but I prefer the less 3's and slower pace.

 

[J.J.]

I am going to answer this question as unbiased as possible even though I've always been a fan of basketball of the previous eras. The NBA, as a product, has never been better.

The league is saturated with talent. LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook, Anthony Davis, and James Harden to name a few. We're not far removed from the primes of all-time greats like Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan. Guys like Karl Towns, Jahlil Okafor and Kristaps Porzingis are on the come up.

On the aggregate there has never been more talented players in the league than there are today. Even as recently as ten years ago there weren't enough skilled players to even dream about running offenses as reliant on skilled individuals like the Warriors do. There were never 6'7" guys like Draymond Green that could playmake, defend centers, and shoot 3's. There weren't guys like Kevin Durant who could handle like a point guard and shoot 3's. There weren't bigs that were as mobile defensively as Anthony Davis and could defend the pick and roll, protect the rim, and switch onto guards when late in the clock. Players today have to be more skilled out of necessity — the league and the way the game is played is far more complex than it was even ten years ago. Players are also getting real skill development starting at a younger age. For all the griping about AAU basketball, it's certainly producing more skilled basketball players.

Will the stars of the 80s and 90s ever be repeated? Yes. This is silly. Michael, Magic, Bird, Shaq (he was in the 00s as well) and Pippen were iconic. But we have LeBron (a top 5 player all-time), Steph (the most unique basketball player I've ever seen and the best shooter of all-time), and Durant (a generational scorer, the best 50-40-90 season since Bird). Again, we also had Kobe and Duncan who are top 10 all-time players in their own right.

While basketball fans of a certain age might be nostalgic about the Magic-Bird-Jordan era of hoops(like myself), today's NBA is objectively better. The brand of basketball is better — it's less barbaric, the pace is better, it's complex and intricate. There's greater parity among the teams (there's fewer terrible teams and way more good teams). The league, overall, is far better from a talent standpoint.

With that being said there are things in the NBA that are different. I am a MJ fan and haven't seen anyone replicate his level of play. I pure argued with some guy on here a year ago who has never picked up a basketball in his life over a MJ/LeBron discussion. The center position has changed as teams no longer consistently run their offense through their center. Dwight Howard, Al Jefferson and Roy Hibbert don't act or play like their predecessors. It isn't because today's centers are terrible, but because the game has gotten faster, smarter and more detailed in its design. Attempt to dump it in all you want; the opposing defense already has two-dozen counters for this simplistic notion.

So to sum all this up I am a bigger College Basketball fan. The NBA I would say the competitive nature of the game was higher back then which made the game to me more interesting in comparison. But todays basketball is more entertaining if that makes sense. I guess I enjoyed a Kareem skyhook over a 7 footer pulling 3s? Just call me old school I guess.

 

[Akhilleus]

Part of me likes the 80s and 90s version of basketball just because of the legacy it left behind. I mean, we say the same thing about all of the sports don't we? Look at baseball, or football, or even wrestling. I imagine twenty years from today we will look back at this generation and compare it to the modern one of that time.

It is hard to say because right now we ironically don't have as much inbalance as there was before. Michael Jordan and the Bulls won six titles in that decade. While today, despite LeBron being in the finals for five straight years and possibly counting, there is a lot more diversity in who the winner is. The Heat and Lakers both went back to back, but there hasn't been a team with anywhere near as much power as the Bulls had. In fact looking back, from the year the Lakers won the finals in 1987, every team to win won at least once more the year again. The Pistons did it after that, Then the Bulls won three, then the Rockets won two, then the Bulls won three more, then the Spurs finally break the streak and win one to close out the 90s, right before the Lakers go on their threepeat run.

So since the year 2000, there have been 7 different champions in 16 years of NBA finals. That may not sound like a lot, but through the 90s there were only four different champions. And lets not talk about the when the Boston Celtics went to 10 straight NBA finals, winning 9 of them.

As far as actual game play though, the game is evolving. It's because of the way those players succeeded back in the day that it's different now. Because coaches and player found ways to beat it, and the good players found new ways to overcome that. It's a big cycle that just keeps going and going. Again, a decade from now we can look back and try to compare, but play style will once again be different.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I am going to answer this question as unbiased as possible even though I've always been a fan of basketball of the previous eras. The NBA, as a product, has never been better.

In some ways, the league has never been better.

The league is saturated with talent. LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook, Anthony Davis, and James Harden to name a few. We're not far removed from the primes of all-time greats like Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan. Guys like Karl Towns, Jahlil Okafor and Kristaps Porzingis are on the come up.

From the outside it appears as if the league is saturated with talent, however, a lot of those "all star" players are benefiting from the current style of play that is popular in the NBA. The game is a lot faster and focuses more on offense; because of that players can put up more numbers. A lot of the great players today wouldn't have been so great if they played in the older style of the NBA.

On the aggregate there has never been more talented players in the league than there are today. Even as recently as ten years ago there weren't enough skilled players to even dream about running offenses as reliant on skilled individuals like the Warriors do. There were never 6'7" guys like Draymond Green that could playmake, defend centers, and shoot 3's. There weren't guys like Kevin Durant who could handle like a point guard and shoot 3's. There weren't bigs that were as mobile defensively as Anthony Davis and could defend the pick and roll, protect the rim, and switch onto guards when late in the clock. Players today have to be more skilled out of necessity — the league and the way the game is played is far more complex than it was even ten years ago. Players are also getting real skill development starting at a younger age. For all the griping about AAU basketball, it's certainly producing more skilled basketball players.

If you mean players are more skilled in guard type play, then you're absolutely correct. Everybody in the league today tries to play like guards. Handling the ball, shooting long jumpers, dishing, etc. Players are definitely not more skilled in fundamentals or in such traditional things like post play or back to the basket play.

Will the stars of the 80s and 90s ever be repeated? Yes. This is silly. Michael, Magic, Bird, Shaq (he was in the 00s as well) and Pippen were iconic. But we have LeBron (a top 5 player all-time), Steph (the most unique basketball player I've ever seen and the best shooter of all-time), and Durant (a generational scorer, the best 50-40-90 season since Bird). Again, we also had Kobe and Duncan who are top 10 all-time players in their own right.

I don't think they will be repeated. I mean, the center position is already a thing of the past. Now, everybody tries to play small ball. I wouldn't be surprised if in 10 to 15 years we see an all guard line up.

While basketball fans of a certain age might be nostalgic about the Magic-Bird-Jordan era of hoops(like myself), today's NBA is objectively better. The brand of basketball is better — it's less barbaric, the pace is better, it's complex and intricate. There's greater parity among the teams (there's fewer terrible teams and way more good teams). The league, overall, is far better from a talent standpoint.

I will give you that the league is definitely more exciting from an offensive standpoint. I, however, miss the games of old where both teams offenses were great and it became about which team could stop the other. Those types of games were battles of attrition. Like game 7 of the Clippers/Spurs series last year. Now that was a great old school game and that was because both teams have great old school coaches.

With that being said there are things in the NBA that are different. I am a MJ fan and haven't seen anyone replicate his level of play. I pure argued with some guy on here a year ago who has never picked up a basketball in his life over a MJ/LeBron discussion. The center position has changed as teams no longer consistently run their offense through their center. Dwight Howard, Al Jefferson and Roy Hibbert don't act or play like their predecessors. It isn't because today's centers are terrible, but because the game has gotten faster, smarter and more detailed in its design. Attempt to dump it in all you want; the opposing defense already has two-dozen counters for this simplistic notion.

Running the offense through the big may have been simplistic, but it really saddens me to see that bigs in today's game don't have the skills to play that way. Also, trust me, countering that type of play wasn't that easy either. If it was then Shaq wouldn't have been as successful as he was. Same goes for Duncan. Everybody knew exactly what they were going to go out and do night in and night out and yet they couldn't be stopped.

So to sum all this up I am a bigger College Basketball fan. The NBA I would say the competitive nature of the game was higher back then which made the game to me more interesting in comparison. But todays basketball is more entertaining if that makes sense. I guess I enjoyed a Kareem skyhook over a 7 footer pulling 3s? Just call me old school I guess.

You hit the nail directly on the head when you said that the competitive nature of the game was a lot higher back in the day. Now, all the players are friends, homies, and boys. They go out to eat with one another before the game and after the game, they can be found partying together. That's bullshit. You would have never caught Jordan partying with Barkley during the NBA season or Bird and Magic partying during the NBA season.

I'm telling you man, the rules are a lot softer and so are the players. If the game continues down this current path, there will be no more bigs at all. It will be an all guard league and every time a player sneezes they'll be out for a week. Also, they're all friends, so there will no longer be any competitive feel to the game at all.

I much prefer the game the way it was to what it is now.

 

[J.J.]

I can speak on the friendship aspect. I'm sure those guys hung out back then but there was no presence of social media to emphasize on these guys hanging out or many chose to keep a low profile. There's no rivalries anymore in the league - it's all family friend or media fabrication to make it seem there's really more there that there isn't.

AAU basketball has brought a lot of people together? Remember Flip Murray and Julius Hodge? We played AAU ball together, we've established a friendship and played against future NBA greats. Eddy Curry, Darius Miles, Eltan Brand - a lot of these guys you play against so often that you become acquainted with them. They meet them at player camps, you meet current NBA players. I can admit being dunked on by Donyell Marshall once who was at the time in the NBA with Golden State.

The point is they've established friendships before they enter the league often times. The development of players starts so young now that by the time they're 5th graders they're playing against future NBA players, College scouts are already looking at them by middle school. In a sense it's like these guys grow up together.

Look at Colleges these days as recently as Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones wanting to play together because they're friends. They've played together and on the Collegiate level this is an advantage. Yeah perhaps it goes against the grain of yesteryear but the use of social media and AAU ball is to thank here.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Look, I've been to basketball camps and I played 1 season of AAU basketball and 1 season of collegiate basketball. It was at Western Kentucky, but I played. In high school I led my team in assists and point 3 years in a row. I was a PG. Anyways, I understand that we play people so often that we get to know them and especially at camps, when we're around each other all day for around a week you start to develop friendships. With me, however, all of that goes out the window when we start to play. During the course of the game, if you're on the other team, you just might be the person I hate most in life at that point in time. In the season that I was in AAU, I played against Blake Griffin's team as well as Kevin Durant's and Ty Lawson's team (I was matched up against Ty Lawson). I think Michael Beasley was on that team too; anyways, I know some of these guys grew up together and what not, however, they should still be competitive during the season and especially during the game. Just this season, after the Thunder beat the Clippers (my favorite team) in a nail biter game by 1 point, DeAndre Jordan and few other Clippers went out with Durant, Westbrooke and a few other Thunder players and partied until 3 A.M. I'm sorry, but I just don't like that and I don't think it's appropriate during the course of the NBA season. I'm sure Chris Paul chewed his ass out because CP3 is best friends with Lebron James, Melo, and Wade, but during the season, he barely stays in touch with those guys because he's competitive. That's how it should be.

 

[#tamale]

Basketball in the 90s was pure shit saved only by Jordan's charisma and some half decent Western Conference foes. Wax nostalgic all you like, but what makes seeing Charles Oakley clothesline Luc Longley so entertaining? Because "they hated each other" back in the day? Please...

Look, I've been to basketball camps and I played 1 season of AAU basketball and 1 season of collegiate basketball. It was at Western Kentucky, but I played. In high school I led my team in assists and point 3 years in a row. I was a PG. Anyways, I understand that we play people so often that we get to know them and especially at camps, when we're around each other all day for around a week you start to develop friendships. With me, however, all of that goes out the window when we start to play. During the course of the game, if you're on the other team, you just might be the person I hate most in life at that point in time. In the season that I was in AAU, I played against Blake Griffin's team as well as Kevin Durant's and Ty Lawson's team (I was matched up against Ty Lawson). I think Michael Beasley was on that team too; anyways, I know some of these guys grew up together and what not, however, they should still be competitive during the season and especially during the game. Just this season, after the Thunder beat the Clippers (my favorite team) in a nail biter game by 1 point, DeAndre Jordan and few other Clippers went out with Durant, Westbrooke and a few other Thunder players and partied until 3 A.M. I'm sorry, but I just don't like that and I don't think it's appropriate during the course of the NBA season. I'm sure Chris Paul chewed his ass out because CP3 is best friends with Lebron James, Melo, and Wade, but during the season, he barely stays in touch with those guys because he's competitive. That's how it should be.

So because they don't "hate" each other, then the game sucks now? Is that the only argument you can make? I guess the Spurs didn't want revenge on the Heat after the 2013 Finals and that's why they folded in 2014. The league has grown, scoring is up, there are a vast number of superstars all around the league, the number of competitive teams is up. The NBA now is rich with pure basketball and not 90s bully iso basketball.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Basketball in the 90s was pure shit saved only by Jordan's charisma and some half decent Western Conference foes. Wax nostalgic all you like, but what makes seeing Charles Oakley clothesline Luc Longley so entertaining? Because "they hated each other" back in the day? Please...


So because they don't "hate" each other, then the game sucks now? Is that the only argument you can make? I guess the Spurs didn't want revenge on the Heat after the 2013 Finals and that's why they folded in 2014. The league has grown, scoring is up, there are a vast number of superstars all around the league, the number of competitive teams is up. The NBA now is rich with pure basketball and not 90s bully iso basketball.

I love when you say something that somebody else doesn't agree with; instead of that person trying to make an interesting and intelligible conversation/discussion/argument/debate they have to attack and speak in a sarcastic tone. Got to love the internet. If you read any of my other posts, then you'd know that the lack of competitiveness wasn't my only gripe. I guess you didn't though.

Anyways, I guess I can't blame you for completely missing the point of my diatribe. I could have definitely been more specific and used the word competition or competitive a few more times. Alas, however, you're right, the Spurs were motivated after losing in 2013 and the Warriors are motivated right now. That just proves my point, however, out of all of this "great" talent that we currently have in the NBA; I can only name 2 teams that are completely motivated. All summer long all the Cavs and Cavs fans talked about was, "If we had have been at full strength, we would have won the finals". Instead of going out and playing with that kind of determination and competitiveness to prove that, the ones who actually won the championship last year are playing like they're more hungry and desperate to win than anybody else. That's a damn shame.

You know what, the 90's was bully ball. Men played in the 90's. The refs didn't blow their whistles every time somebody got touched and the players actually played like they gave a damn if they won or not. People like Reggie Miller, Gary Peyton, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkely, John Stockton, Karl Malone, and so many others played then and they all played with the passion and desire to be champions. It wasn't just Jordan and for the record, that's what made Jordan as good as he was. Same with Kobe. Something that is solely lacking from today's game.