No, I usually appear in situations where people are okay with discrimination.
You keep telling yourself that. That's what you need to believe.
Yes, discrimination based solely upon an "X" and a "Y" is morally repugnant.
Again, It's not discrimination in the sense that you are trying to apply it. Words take on different meanings with the way they are used. For instance, I might have a preference for European sports cars, so when a salesman tries to sell me a domestic mid-size sedan, I
discriminate against those because of my preference. The way you are using it is how it would have applied to the
discrimination of black people before the civil rights movement and we both know the two are not the same or even in the same ballpark. You keep spinning it like a record though to prove your point, but you're usage of the term is incorrect for how you are trying to apply it, and make a victim of this person.
Perhaps you're not aware of the term "discrimination". You really should look it up, it's quite enlightening. Perhaps you could even move out of the 1950s and into the real world with the rest of us.
Ohhhh, you got me there. 1950's, wow that was harsh. God your pathetic. That's all you've got isn't it? All you can do is try to affix a certain image that you negatively paint of someone and hope that it sticks to somehow make you right. It's lame old gimmick and it consistently makes you look like a dumb-fuck. BTW, I'm not just calling you a dumb-fuck, I'll give you credit that you're at least rather clever, but some of the shit you do and the way you act makes you look like one, and IMHO is SOOOOO far beneath who you USED to be on here that I have lost virtually any and all respect for you I once had. You weren't like this back in 06-07 when I first started reading on here, what the hell happened to you man?
Understood, but the difference is when I call people stupid, it's because they actually said something stupid. You're calling me stupid for pointing out this is a clear case of discrimination, which by the very definition of the word it is.
Basically, what I'm saying is that you utterly failed at trying to insult me.
What, are we in elementary school or something? That's what you sound like, you realize this don't you? You sound like the kid who always has to try and 1-up everyone to make themselves look good. And, on you continue trying to force-fuck your "discrimination" argument down my throat like that makes it any more valid. It doesn't. It's been made very clear and explained over and over how and why this is not a case of discrimination, but like the belligerent child you are you just persist to say that's what it is.
Okay...and this person has always known they are mentally and emotionally a female.
No, that person "Thinks" they are mentally and emotionally a female. The truth of the matter is that the individual has what is called a GID "Gender Identity Disorder" that falls in line with "Transsexualism" which is also a mental disorder. If you have a problem with that, take it with the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems.
Completely false. Without surgeries, hormones, etc., there is no question that what you have PHYSICALLY is a man through and through. That doesn't mean they are a man mentally or emotionally. And since this person has undergone treatment to change who they are physically, and they have always identified themselves as female mentally and emotionally, I'm not really sure where you get off saying they are not a female.
I see where you are going with that, but these idividuals are not "Mentally or Emotionally Men or Women" It is a preference to be the opposite sex due to what is called "Gender Dysphoria". Changing the paint doesn't change the engine, nor does what a person identifies with.
Here's an example we can draw from the popular kids movie Ice Age 2. In that movie there is a wholly mammoth named Ellie. Her back story is that as a baby Ellie was displaced from her herd. She was taken in by 3 opossums and raised with them, at some point forgetting her origins and believed wholeheartedly that she was a opossum(isn't it fucked up how in the word "Opossum" there is an "O" in front of "Possum" when it seems like it should just be "Possum", sorry to get side tracked). Sid, Manny, and Diego try over and over and over to show her that she is in fact a mammoth, but she believes against all evidence to the contrary that she is an opossum. Same thing here in this case. Just because in your mind you might think or even feel that you are something you clearly are not, doesn't mean that you are what you "think or feel" you are.
Is she a "naturally born female"? No, she isn't, and under that rule, she is not permitted to compete. But that doesn't change the fact she IS a female, and the contest's rules are discriminatory.
Okay, end of discussion. That's the whole point right there. But, going further, HE is not a female, merely a man who underwent sexual reassignment in an attempt to be a one because they have a Gender Identity Disorder.
Spoken like a true Christian.
"Just because someone may act an atheist, or say 'I think of myself as an atheist' doesn't mean they are atheist. They're really Christian, they just don't realize it yet."
Right?
That had nothing to do with the conversation, you just made some lame example. The flaw in your example was that as I said, Atheism isn't an emotional state or a mental state of being, it's an ideology that one adopts as their own. That's what I said in regards to Atheism. You tried to spin it into justifying your anti-Christian agenda but you fail miserably. What you quoted from me was a response to this
I disagree, I think there are far more things which make a woman a woman. Their mental and emotional state, their genitalia, their behaviors and characteristics, their hormonal levels, and most importantly, how they honestly identify themselves.
And that was only a small piece of that response. Just as you always do, you misrepresented what I said and even what it was in regards to, to try and make me out to be this characterization that you are obsessed with. My point was simply that you can act however you want, you can try to fulfill the role that you associate with anything you are trying to be, and that doesn't mean that's what you are, specifically in the case of men trying to be women. Just like my Batman example. I can proclaim to think in all seriousness that I am Batman, and I can go about doing things to look like him, talk like him, I can even attempt to think like him or react to situations as I think he would, but at the end of the day, whether I identify with him and being him, I am not him. Same goes for the men trying to be women and vice-versa.
And don't try to drag religion into the mix and use it against people. I'm not specifically a Christian anyways, so you keep making an ass of yourself trying to portray me as some radical far right Christian conservative, or even trying to propose that I have some issue with transgender people. That's the only way anything you say makes sense, it always has to be some "Us vs Them" situation because you can't handle the fact that someone disagrees with you or that you are wrong. Persist all you want, you're the one who continually looks like an idiot bringing something irrelevant like that into the fray, trying to use it to illegitimize anything you disagree with.
But Ron Artest can walk around and say "I'm Meta World Peace", and he sure as fuck is, no matter what name he was born with.
Jesus, you have no shame do you? That is nothing even remotely similar to what we are talking about here. That's changing a name, and still, even though Ron Artest goes and changes his legal name to Meta World Peace, he'll still always be Ron Artest, his real name will always be Ron Artest, and Meta World Peace will always be an alias. You strike out again.
By the way, what a terrible example.
It's terrible to you because it perfectly illustrates the point and you can't counter it.
Agreed...doesn't make it any less silly.
Well, it might seem silly to you but as I said, sometimes the answer is just THAT simple and doesn't require folks like yourself trying to complicate the whole issue and find some technicality on which you can say you are correct. If you have to find a technicality, that means you are wrong in plain bold truth.
Yes, it was her DECISION to physically change her appearance to match her mental and emotional states. It WASN'T her decision to be a female in every part of her being, except the physical.
You're just gonna keep pulling that out of the ol' shit shaft aren't you? You just keep perpetuating the same bullshit as if doing so makes you any more correct on the matter. I'll say it again, the person is not a woman/female mentally or emotionally, they may feel that they are due to GID or Transsexualism which is also a disorder, but that doesn't make said perception true. Based on your logic, a pathological liar is never lying because they believe their own lies. That is the equivalent of the shit you are trying to shovel here. What I will give you is that of course the person can not control whether or not they are effected by GID or Transsexualism, and so if having a sex change operation makes them feel more comfortable in their own skin, although I find it kind of odd simply because I can not relate to that feeling, I don't see anything wrong with it. Still, it does not make the individual the sex/gender that they prefer to be, and it is just that, a preference.
What's it like to live in such a closed mind. I'm guessing it's quite dark.
Yeah, that's what I thought. Once again you've got nothing so you resort to your childish antics.
Yes, judging people based on the kind of person they are, and not on their skin color, religion, sexuality genetics is such a bad thing.
And once again you basically are putting words in my mouth and distorting the meaning of what I was saying because you have nothing legit to fire back with. I was referring to your pathetic display of idiocy stating "They can't compete because they aren't beautiful enough" as if that actually has anything to do with it.
Actually, you are completely and provably wrong. The rules ARE discriminatory. You can disagree with whether they are morally unacceptable or not, but they are discriminatory. This cannot be disputed.
Since you obviously have never bothered to read the definition of discrimination, I'll go ahead and provide it for you:
Originally Posted by Dictionary.com
treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit
There is. But she wasn't removed on parameters of qualification. She didn't fail any competence tests, she didn't fail any morality clauses...she was removed simply because of the gender she was born with.
Thus, it's discrimination.
Refer back to the top of my response. Under the strictest and more literal sense of the definition you can try to say it's "discrimination", but within the context of the scenario it clearly isn't. This person who appeared to be a woman because of numerous procedures was ineligible to participate in the pageant because although they appeared to be a woman, they were not. If we go by your logic and no one is to be "discriminated" against as you use it, that there is no reason a man in drag (as I made an example of) or even an attractive man shouldn't be able to compete because at the base of your argument the discrimination is against a MAN in a beauty pageant that is strictly for women.
No, I think that since the actual definition of the word discrimination supports my using that term, I'm right in using it.
Try and keep up.
You've only twisted the definition to suit your interests, it in fact does not support your use of the term.
I never said she didn't have a choice to change her physical appearance. What she never had a choice in is what her mental and emotional makeup was. She didn't HAVE to physically alter her appearance, but she did so to reflect the type of person she has always been on the inside.
Okay, just because I'm sick of repeating myself I'll give you that, HE had no choice in his mental and emotional make up. But what does this have to do with the individual STILL being a man, and trying to pass themselves off as a woman in a women's only beauty pageant? All that shit you are trying to bring up is a distraction from the fact that regardless of "Feelings" which in this base are a by-product of a mental condition, and regardless of the cosmetic changes one makes, they are still a man whether they "feel like a woman", dress like a woman, act like a woman, or go through said cosmetic alterations to appear more like a woman.
And it's also unavoidable that if you have the mental and emotional state of a female from birth, no matter how much people try to tell you that you're wrong, you are a female in both the mental and emotional capacities at death as well.
Not so, you only identify with women due to the urge to be one which comes from GID and Transsexualism.
No it didn't. I read your response to him. You just repeated the same nonsense ad nauseum.
I know, you can't stand getting your dick knocked in the dirt over and over.
Wow, logical fallacy much? You should study up on circular reasoning.
What's that??? I can't hear you??? You once again have nothing to say in the face of facts??? Okay.
I laugh because I think you really believe what you just said there. And I laugh because your rant doesn't even come close to addressing what I actually said.
But hey, why let facts and logic stop you? You're a keyboard warrior, dammit!
I addressed what you said and then some, you just didn't quote it right here to create the illusion that I didn't. The reason I even went through typing the rest of that was because I have issue with YOU directly. I can't stand you, or your asinine smart ass remarks and responses, I can't stand the way you act, or the way you just dismiss what people say as you label it "Stupid" which is a great argument btw, I can see how much thought goes into that. I also wrote what I did to expose exactly what you are all about and how you try to go about making fools of people, to which you of course respond "I let them make fools of themselves" which is always the case as you call it when anyone owns you and you have nothing to respond with. You just mock people because you can't really support your stance, so you try to drive the conversation in any direction but the one that shows you are full of shit, which you are. Just like above calling me a keyboard warrior and shit, and suggesting that facts and logic are absent from my argument and whatnot. It's all that kind of shit that shows me and everyone else who on-looks what a pusscake you really are, and reveals the fact that you are a lame duck in the conversation just trying to stir shit up and troll people because you are a punk pure and simple.
Wow, your reading comprehension skills suck. No nice way to put it, they suck.
Same old shit from you, different day, go fuck yourself. All you have are insults and childish antics at your disposal, and you are pathetic because it's those type of antics that you feed off of.
My response to your drag queen example was two fold, each part playing an equal role in my explanation on the difference. The first part was that this woman is not a drag queen, she is literally a person who is a female in every way, except for the fact she was born with a male gene. She has gone through undoubtedly painful procedures, spending a lot of money to become the person she wants to be. This isn't something she did for fun, for sexual gratification or for a break from reality. This is who she really is, who she has always been, and she has undergone a tremendous amount of work to become physically who she has always been mentally and emotionally.
And your persistent claims and assumption that this person is a female in every way, which HE clearly isn't, that this is who the person really is, has always been, and is now who she has always been mentally and emotionally is the glaring flaw in your entire argument. The person that HE really is, is the person the HE was before all the surgery and hormone treatments, THAT's who Jenna really is, a guy who wanted to be a girl in as many ways as possible. While Jenna may have been able to do many things to create the illusion, Jenna is, was, and always will be a man at the core no matter what a mental disorder makes him think or feel.
The second part of my response never once said anything about a drag queen being unattractive, merely that they weren't attractive enough to reach this level, as this girl is. Somehow you managed to twist that into your experiences of fondling guys' balls to tell that drag queens aren't really girls.
Oh, now you want to backpedal from your shit when you got busted out, not surprised one bit. It's no shocker that you also used my blasting you to try and infer that I engage in homosexual activities either, cretins like you seem to know no low and have no shame. You don't need to try and redact what your statement said and go into "damage control". You made an idiotic generalization stating that "Drag Queens aren't beautiful enough to be in a beauty pageant" and I used that to point out how utterly clueless and out of touch you really are, as the statement made it glaringly obvious. Like I said, there are plenty of drag queens out there that look every bit as womanly as Jenna, who haven't had all that surgery, that you wouldn't be able to tell if they were a guy in drag or not. The point of stating as much was that you and/or others are trying to say that a man who looks like a woman should be able to be in the pageant, so I took it one step further illustrating the flaw of that logic stating that if that is so than there is no reason a drag queen couldn't compete either.
Your reading comprehension sucks. Add it to the list of things you need to improve upon (along with studying the correct definition of the term discrimination and circular reasoning)
You REEEALLLY should never tell me to look something up, especially in this case as it's about to completely backfire on you. I did go ahead and look up "Circular Reasoning" and after learning what exactly it is, it dawned on me that-that is exactly what you have been doing all along. Let me show you. Here is the definition:
a use of reason in which the premises depends on or is equivalent to the conclusion, a method of false logic by which "this is used to prove that, and that is used to prove this"; also called circular logic
Whether you are too stupid to have caught it yourself, or you just thought I was either too stupid or lazy to actually look it up, this describes perfectly what you have been doing the whole time as your repeatedly reasoning that Jenna IS a woman by all definitions, making Jenna then eligible for the women's only pageant, when the whole controversy is that Jenna in all actuality is a man, and the pageant directors ruled that men or someone who appears to be a woman but is by nature a man, are not allowed in women's only beauty pageants.
What the fuck does homosexuality have to do with this? Why are you even talking about it? I never mentioned homosexuality once in the post you are responding to, nor did I even hint at it.
Don't go wetting your pull-ups, I mentioned homosexuality in reference to the LGBT community, which I stated you are clearly out of touch with. I also went on to explain how and why that I am nothing like how you have tried to portray me or have accused me of being, noting that the place I live was one of the first and only states to allow gay marriage, has a flourishing LGBT community, and that this is a safe haven for them because of the support of people like myself who may not personally agree with being LGBT, but does support them in their pursuit of equal rights, fair treatment, and the ability to live in a society where they need not fear any kind of infringement on their rights, discrimination, etc...
No, I can't understand you because you don't make any sense, you don't understand proper meanings of words, you talk about stuff that had absolutely no relevance to this discussion, and you don't understand the fact this person is not a man.
And here you've shown that for all the accusing me of not understanding, you are the one who clearly can not follow the conversation, and do not understand simple facts like the one that Jenna is a man.
Trust me, I'm quite glad I don't understand you, I'd hate to think I'm as crazy as you are. There's a reason I mock you, and not Davi. Davi isn't stupid.
Oh I know you can't understand me, you've got your head so far up your ass I'm willing to bet your last meaningful conversation was with your kidneys. I'm not crazy, but you and your antics sure do piss me off. It's kind of like a little kid in the back seat of the car constantly kicking the back of your seat just to piss you off, knowing that you can't reach around and smack the shit out of them because they're directly behind you. Yeah, that's you.
You mock me because you and I have but heads numerous times, often instigated by you, because you're an intolerant douchebag that can't stand it when someone has an argument contrary to your own, especially when that argument is strong and valid. Oh, and I almost forgot, because for all your time here, for all your supposed past glory, and for all the make believe power you hold, what you are in the end is a loser who is so bored with their life that all they can do for amusement is come on here, troll people and start arguments just to fuck with people, and do so under the protection of being one of the main people on the site. That by all accounts makes you a pussy in my book. I'd love to see you try and be so bold with someone who could kick your ass in real life, I'd buy a ticket to watch that confrontation. I wouldn't do it, I wouldn't give you the satisfaction of putting me in jail, and you aren't worth the time, but I'd love to see what happened when you tried to pull your shit with someone in the real world who didn't give a fuck about doing a little jail time to put you in your place like the little piss ant you are.
Wow...this paragraph reads like you need to seek some counseling. You are flying off the deep end.
WTF Are you talking about? You just throw whatever shit you can against the wall to see what sticks huh? What about anything in there has any indication of "flying off the deep end" as you put it? I just explained that although you seem unable to understand it because you're such an extremist in your views, I have no problem being friends with people whose views differ from my own. It's only when cunty assholes like you act the way you do that I really have any issue. Otherwise, I don't have a problem supporting people who I share different views with, I don't view them as "Stupid" or less of a person like you do, and I actually care about them, rather than like you, make martyrs of them to serve my own purposes as you have here.
When you say "them" who are you referring to?
The LGBT community, or in this case Transgenders/Transsexuals
EXACTLY! They want to be accepted for who they are, not for what chromosomes they have inside them. And yet, here you are, actively supporting Canada's Miss Universe decision to not accept who this woman is, and instead discriminate against her because of something she had no control over, and has never identified with.
Well unfortunately what chromosomes they have plays a big part in who they are. And yet here YOU are propagating a lie that regardless of what chromosomes the person in this particular situation has, that they are a woman, even though by all scientific measures beyond the physical, this person is a man, and again you stoop to claiming that I am condoning some kind of discrimination that doesn't even exist in this situation.
It's amazing, it truly is...even you manage to prove yourself wrong...is there anyone who can't prove you wrong?
How so? By stating that the LGBT community simply wants to be accepted for who they are? You might fiendishly try to twist my words to make that the case, but my making a simple statement in those regards has no bearing on right or wrong in the discussion. And, of course you continue with your ******ed antics showing over and over that you have no real argument, only insults and accusations to dispense in the absence of. The thing here is that in this case, no one is NOT accepting Jenna for who HE is, it just so happens that because Jenna is actually a man under all that cosmetic surgery, and in fact was NOT born a woman which is an obvious testament to Jenna NOT being a woman, HE is ineligible to compete. It's just the same as if Jenna wanted to be a jockey, Jenna is too big to be a jockey, so even if she tried it wouldn't work. But according to you that's some kind of social injustice and discrimination.
Pretty certain this entire thread is based off of a story of active discrimination.
I, and plenty of others are pretty certain your full of shit on that one.
Well, why else would you be so gung-ho for active discrimination? I don't understand, are you against discrimination or not?
The repetitive and tired act of trying to affix false labels in the absence of a legit response, at least you are consistently shit.
You're right, because this is very clearly an issue of discrimination.
You sure are stubborn. Nothing like a brick upside the head to fix that though. You just aren't going to quit are you? I am beginning to wonder if you are a pathological liar or something, you seem to actually believe your own bullshit which is pretty sad.
*whoosh*
Do you hear that? That's the sound of my point going WAAAY over your head.
I got the point, I answered the question, you just chose to ignore the answer because it made you look stupid for saying what you did in the first place. Now you want to try and cover that up by acting like I fucked up somehow. Nice try, fail.
For fuck sake, take something within the context of it's meaning. And, while you are at it, why don't you go *********e with a cheese grater. I would retort with saying this is easily the stupidest thing you have said but I'd be jumping the shark if I did that. You've got me beat there.
I seriously cannot believe you just tried to suggest rules cannot be discriminatory in nature. Did you never pay attention in American History class?
I didn't. However, the rules aren't discriminatory in this case, but I never said that rules
in general, in any situation, at any time, any where, could not, and can not be discriminatory as you suggested. That's just more hyperbole on your part as you fall flat on your ass trying to save face.
So? Her mental and emotional states are entirely female. Surely you're not suggesting the only way we should ever judge who a person is is merely by their physical appearance.
Here's the thing, you can't prove that, you assume that and continually propose that is the case. Problem is, HIS mental and emotional states are not entirely female. And nowhere did I say or suggest that "The only way we should ever judge who a person is-is merely by their physical appearance" I don't even know where you came up with that, but then again I'm puzzled as to where you come up with half the shit that comes out of your mouth. As far as judging anyone outside of a situation like a pageant, I think that a person should be judged by the merit of their character and the measure of their actions. It's funny that you mention "Judging people merely by their appearance" and portray it in a negative light, because that's exactly what you are saying the judges of this Canadian beauty pageant should be doing in the case of Jenna. How shallow of you. Tisk Tisk.
Furthermore, are we REALLY going to use "cosmetic appearance" to disqualify competitors from this pageant?
How should I know, I'm not a beauty pageant judge. But I do know that in this case because the contestant was actually a man HE was disqualified as a competitor. On a side note, I think they actually do judge a bit based on appearance alone in those contests, I can't say for sure as I mentioned just a second ago, but I'm pretty positive they do to some degree, it's just not the entirety of the criteria obviously. I don't really know what all they judge on.
