Michaels vs. Razor WM10: How Does It Hold Up?

[The Brain]

A few weeks ago I created a thread about Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat from Wrestlemania III asking how the match held up all these years later. This thread asks the same question about the ladder match between Shawn Michaels and Razor Ramon from WrestleMania X.

It's hard to believe it's been twenty years since this match took place and I think it's fair to say it made a lasting impact on the wrestling world. It wasn't the first ladder match but it was the first to be presented on a big stage to a worldwide audience. It was unlike anything that most fans had ever seen. The innovation, brutality, and high risk involved in that match left fans breathless and many were saying it was the best match since the aforementioned Savage vs. Steamboat.

Since the famous match in 1994 we have seen countless ladder matches. We've seen tag team matches, TLC matches, MITB matches, and matches involving anywhere from two to ten people. We've seen bigger ladders and more dangerous risks. HBK's splash from the ladder looks rather tame compared to a lot of things we've seen since.

I think the WM10 match still holds up. There's something special about being the first and taking place at WrestleMania certainly helps. When I look back at older matches I put myself back in that time. When I watch WM10 it is 1994 in my mind and I judge the match without future matches influencing my perspective. I can do this pretty easily because I remember 1994 very well. While I'm sure many of you are a little young to remember 1994 I think it's safe to say a lot of members of this forum were watching back then and remember it well. I wonder what a younger fan watching WM10 for the first time would think about that ladder match. What do you think? How does Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon from WrestleMania X hold up twenty years later?

 

[zhaff2004]

I was only 5 when the match took place, but I have watched it numerous times more recently and the match is still extremely good. I'm not influenced by nostalgia or anything else like that and going back and watching it, it is a tremendous match that, even without context (being the 1st ladder match and all) it is still a great match.

 

[wrestler36]

I'm 32, and in 1994, that match was so innovative and new. So for me, it still holds up since there's the nostalgic factor to it. I think to the younger audience who grew up during the Attitude Era and saw stuff like TLC with the Dudleys, Hardys, E&C, or those who saw RVD and Eddie Guerrero, I don't think WM 10 would resonate as much. When you see all the high spots and false finishes in the more recent matches, Razor and Michaels is at a much slower pace with less pizzazz and violence. For me, I think it still holds up because it was new to me at the time, but to a younger audience, maybe not

 

[Creepy Old Man]

I never got the fuss, to be honest. The match was exciting and all, but it was just spots. In my opinion it was utterly dwarfed by Bret vs. Owen, a match that delivered everything... without the props. My wrestling buddies used to ridicule me until I had Jericho's support. "For me, the best match on that show was always Bret vs. Owen", he said on his podcast.

 

[HBsam31]

I have to be honest Brain, I have always preferred Razor and HBK's second Ladder match at Summerslam 95. Now I am not saying the match was better, but I am a huge Shawn Micheals fan and he won the second match, and to me it was just a little more fulfilling in the end. I would be curious Brain to hear your opinion on that match. That being said the ladder match at Mania 10 holds up very well for me. It is actually one of my go to matches when watching the older stuff. I don't think about what has came after when i watch older matches, and Shawn and Razor never let me down when I watch that match. Even the entrance is classic with HBK going around the ladder, and Razor saying F it and going right under it. The Madison Square Garden crowd helps as well with their enthusiasm, and it is just a fun match for me to watch even all these years later.

 

[dingman29]

I have to be honest Brain, I have always preferred Razor and HBK's second Ladder match at Summerslam 95. Now I am not saying the match was better, but I am a huge Shawn Micheals fan and he won the second match, and to me it was just a little more fulfilling in the end. I would be curious Brain to hear your opinion on that match. That being said the ladder match at Mania 10 holds up very well for me. It is actually one of my go to matches when watching the older stuff. I don't think about what has came after when i watch older matches, and Shawn and Razor never let me down when I watch that match. Even the entrance is classic with HBK going around the ladder, and Razor saying F it and going right under it. The Madison Square Garden crowd helps as well with their enthusiasm, and it is just a fun match for me to watch even all these years later.

Funny... i have the same exact opinion on the match, except i was a HUGE razor ramon fan... this was the first WM i watched in real time and followed the build up because i started watching when my cousin ordered the RR that year... WM10 was actually one of my fav. WM events ever, Razor/HBK, Luger, Hart Yoko, Piper and Mr. Perfect, Bret vs Owen, etc.

i was 8 or 9 at the time and the thought of using a ladder as a weapon was crazy... add the 2 IC belts hanging up, the story of a legit and pretend IC champion, and the fact the IC title (my fav. belt as a child) meant something back then was the recipe for a memorable match...

i will always remember the HBK frog splash (an OMG moment as a child) and the fear i had when razor ascended the bent up ladder thinking he was going to fall and lose, winning, and then holding 2 intercontinental title belts.

 

[Hbk4life]

As a HBK and Scott Hall fan, I find it extremely overrated. It was a good match, but there have been much better ladder matches on regular Raw's and Smackdowns. It's just not all WWE makes it out to be, and the finish was botched, which doesn't help either. HBK/Taker in the first HIAC is a better match in terms of bringing something new on a big stage.

 

[Kidpolean]

well imo Savage vs Steamboat is the most overrated match of all time. All they did was execute basic moves over and over again and imo it looked more like two wrestlers that just finished wrestling school more than it did a classic.

Michaels vs Razor is....still the greatest ladder match of all time imo. This is actually one of my top 3 favorite matches of all time. Great match that introduced the ladder match on a huge stage. I personally dont think anything will ever surpass it. TLC 2 was the closest any other ladder match has come to it but I prefer one on one ladder matches. Jericho vs Benoit, Rock vs HHH, Jericho vs HBK were also all great but HBK vs Razor was simply on an entirely different level.

 

[Hbk4life]

well imo Savage vs Steamboat is the most overrated match of all time. All they did was execute basic moves over and over again and imo it looked more like two wrestlers that just finished wrestling school more than it did a classic.

Michaels vs Razor is....still the greatest ladder match of all time imo. This is actually one of my top 3 favorite matches of all time. Great match that introduced the ladder match on a huge stage. I personally dont think anything will ever surpass it. TLC 2 was the closest any other ladder match has come to it but I prefer one on one ladder matches. Jericho vs Benoit, Rock vs HHH, Jericho vs HBK were also all great but HBK vs Razor was simply on an entirely different level.

There are so many ladder matches better than WM 10 it's not even funny. Edge vs Eddie on smackdown, Eddie vs Rey for Dominic, the list goes on and on.

 

[Kidpolean]

There are so many ladder matches better than WM 10 it's not even funny. Edge vs Eddie on smackdown, Eddie vs Rey for Dominic, the list goes on and on.

I've seen all of those and I still prefer Hbk vs Razor. Its just something about it. It has a feel to it that no other ladder match has ever had imo.

 

[Jimmy Carter]

As has already been discussed, the match is sound. It seems to be held in high regard for the precedent it set for future ladder matches rather than the isolated performances. It was fun to watch and revisit, though it remains a far cry from what followed in the ladder match renaissance of 1999-2001.

Match of the night was already mentioned - Bret and Owen. So much emotion and subtle rivalry conveyed in their work, with every move, counter and reversal carrying weight and meaning with it. Absolutely brilliant.

Perhaps that is the distinction between a match regarded as remarkable for its time and an all-round classic. Watching the ladder match again, I remembered enjoying it well during its live broadcast. I watched in admiration as both men put on a fun spectacle. Watching Bret/Owen, my age wound backwards to a single digit. I rooted for Bret before rallying for Owen to get the win (having viewed this match more than a dozen times, I still don't know exactly when this transition takes place). Basically when a match with muted sound can get me to stand up and yell in a crowded office, that's a sign of quality. The ladder match gets a respectful silent clap.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The thing with the ladder match is it's a little "try hard" while Bret/Owen was effortlessly good.

A lot of it comes from Shawn's legit issues at the time with the WWE, he had been fired and re-hired, hence the whole 2 IC belt issue. The WWF had moved on to Hall as their big new star but Shawn wanted to prove his point and to an extent did with this match.

But on rewatching it's not as great as HE thinks it is, and it does have a lot of flaws.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

I've watched this match way too many times, and it never gets old. This used to be the VHS tape I would rent on a weekly basis from the local super market. For me it holds up to the test of time for more than just nostalgia. Over time ladder matches sort of just became utter spotfests with very little selling shown throughout... It was just about getting up and hitting that next big spot with the ladder. This match and their Summerslam match had amazing selling by both guys. So while it may not have all the epic spots of the modern ladder matches it had quite a bit of shock value. You sat there in awe at the fact that two guys were beating the fuck out of eachother with a ladder, and felt like the IC title must be the most important thing in the entire world for them to go to such lengths for it; as opposed to 'I wonder what they're going to do next to top that spot' that you get from modern variations.

 

[Fenris]

1.5/10

One of if not THE most overrated Match in history. It wasn't very good then and only gets the press it does now because it had Vince's boytoy in it so the WWE hypes the ever loving shit out of it every chance they get.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

1.5/10

One of if not THE most overrated Match in history. It wasn't very good then and only gets the press it does now because it had Vince's boytoy in it so the WWE hypes the ever loving shit out of it every chance they get.

I think you are being over-critical. The match was excellent, especially for it's time when Ladder matches were so rare and spectacular. Michaels and Razor put on a great show in my opinion, and the match still stands up today.

However, I do much prefer the ladder matches featuring the likes of the Hardy Boyz, Dudley Boyz and E&C, and the first ever tag-team ladder match at No Mercy 1999 between the Hardyz and E&C is probably my favourite match of all time.

Since the HBK v Razor match, wrestlers have to try and "out-do" previous ladder matches, which have caused the risks and bumps to get greater and greater, but I can still appreciate how influential this match was to all the bigger "spot-fests" that have come since.

 

[Judah's Lion]

HBK/Taker in the first HIAC is a better match in terms of bringing something new on a big stage.

with all due respect, how is Badd Blood a bigger stage than Mania 10 inside of MSG? simply put, it isn't. arguably, Hell in a Cell was a better match than the Ladder Match. a great history and brutal match for sure. but the Ladder Match at Mania 10 also had some great storytelling going into it as well with the real champion that never lost his title vs. the current title holder. it was the perfect storm of stories with the two belts, two legit claims to the title, the setting of Mania at MSG, etc.

speaking of which, HBSAM, you asked Brain but i'll answer for myself. the Ladder (re)Match at SummerSlam between Razor and HBK was great. but it wasn't historic. i think a big part of that was the story leading into the respective matches. look at Mania 10 (as i quickly outlined above) vs. the story going into SummerSlam. there was in fact a different story going into the IC Title match for the big summer event between HBK and Sid, but the WWF quickly and inexplicably changed it to HBK/Razor in the rematch that we actually got. i'm in NO WAY suggesting that HBK/Sid would have been the better match, but amazingly i AM suggesting that it would have been the better story for the time. add to that the ending of their SummerSlam encounter in which it appears as there were two botches to the finish: HBK's Sweet Chin Music barely connecting with Razor and HBK falling off the ladder as he's unable to pull the title down and having to scale it for a second and much-less-dramatic second time.

both matches were great and do stand the test of time. but the better of the two, the one that did in fact set the standard for all ladder matches to follow, and the one that has earned its rightful place in history would be the iconic first ever ladder match between the two men inside Madison Square Garden at WrestleMania 10.

 

[Judah's Lion]

There are so many ladder matches better than WM 10 it's not even funny. Edge vs Eddie on smackdown, Eddie vs Rey for Dominic, the list goes on and on.

sorry to pick on ya. quick couple of things i'd like to point out for your consideration:

1. i'm not sure but i think the Edge vs. Eddie on SmackDown was not an actual Ladder Match. i thought it was a No DQ Match in which a ladder was used and Edge won via pinfall. not positive, but i do believe that's accurate.

2. the question as stated by the OP was not if there were better ladder matches but whether or not this particular one stood the test of time. for example, does Hart/Austin at Mania 13 not stand the test of time because Bret/Owen at Mania 10 was better? or Hart/Perfect is now not a good match at SummerSlam because Hart/Bulldog was better the following year? just because there are other good, even better, matches that follow the one in question doesn't, or at least shouldn't, change its place in value in the grand scheme of things.

3. finally, i think we should also think about ladder matches, both this one specifically and in general, as good not just because of the high spots but also for the storytelling. true, by today's standards, Mania 10 is lacking some serious breath taking moments in regards to spots involving the ladder. but the story told leading up to the match and inside the ring was second to none. several other ladder matches have done the same: Jericho/Benoit, Rock/Triple H, Jericho/HBK, Dudley Boys/Hardy Boys, Edge and Christian, etc. there are several. too many to mention.

personally, i feel that this one does stand the test of time both for its storytelling and innovation.

 

[BadGuy]

I watched it few times.That was one of the best ladder matches in wrestling legacy and the best match during wrestlemania X.I can't forget also about Triple H vs Rock (summerslam 1998) and Edge&Christian vs Hardy Boyz (great fight and finish)