Mark Kessler: Constitutional Defender Or Redneck Thug?

[Jack-Hammer]

Mark Kessler, police chief in the small town of Gilberton, Pennsylvania, gained national attention last month when profanity laced video rants went viral. The video features Kessler firing a large number of automatic and semiautomatic weapons while vehemently insulting liberal politicians and politically liberal Americans who disagreed with him as it regards gun laws. In the videos, he specifically targets politicians he believes is trying to curb gun rights, specifically Secretary of State John Kerry over the support of a recent arms treaty proposed by the United Nations. At one point in the video, Kessler dares Kerry to come forward and try to take his guns. He also targets liberals in general by making use of the term "Libtards".

On August 1st, it was reported by CNN that Kessler was suspended, and currently is suspended, for 30 days without pay by the Gilberton town council. According to the report, Kessler wasn't suspended for his comments but because he used "borough property for non-borough purposes without prior borough permission." Gilberton is a very small town with a population of roughly 1,000 but thousands of gun rights advocates came to Gilberton for this town council meeting; with 750 of then openly carrying firearms. The town council voted 5-1 in favor of suspension in which Kessler stated "I make no apologies and have no regrets."

Not long after, Kessler stated on his website that the town's mayor, Mary Lou Hannon, and two city council members, Eric Boxer & Daniel Malloy, "are conspiring behind closed doors for full termination. They needed to suspend first to allow themselves time to look for or make up any reason or lie." To close his statement, Kessler added in all capital letters, "HEY BOXER, MALLOY , HANNON, YOU'RE COWARDS, YOU'RE HACKS, YOU PRETEND TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION,YOU SICKEN ME!"

After the video went viral, it initiated yet another heated online debate and Kessler issued what's termed a "backhanded apology" on YouTube. Initially, Kessler didn't respond to CNN's attempt for an interview or comment but he told a local Pennsylvania affiliate that he was merely exercising his First & Second Amendment rights and that he wasn't in uniform in any of the videos.

Kessler has been the police chief of Gilberton for 14 years and has a history of making provocative statements. He's also been featured in a number of videos posted online not only discussing his views, but also helping to organize guns rights rallies. One thing that has a number of people feeling nervous is that Kessler is the founder of the Constitutional Security Force, a gun rights advocacy group made up of 100 members that some feel is little more than a private militia. Less than an hour ago, CNN aired a follow up piece in which Kessler granted a brief interview and, again, was unapologetic.

The original story is at this link: http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/01/us/pennslvania-police-chief-rant/index.html

So what exactly is Mark Kessler? Is he merely just a strong supporter of the rights of gun owners who stepped on the toes of more politically correct people or is he the latest in a long line of gun owners who uses hostility & intimidation towards those who simply don't share his opinions?

For me personally, I think both fit Kessler pretty equally.

On one hand, much of what Kessler has said in the video can only be taken as insulting and definitely politically incorrect. The term "Libtard" could be taken not only as an insult towards liberals but is obviously based on the term "******", which is considered a slur towards those suffering from mental disabilities. However, it doesn't look as though he's done anything at all illegal. There's no law against making crudely insensitive statements, nor should there be. He also violated no gun laws, that I'm aware of, nor has anyone who has attended these town meetings, as Pennsylvania is an Open Carry state. Which means firearms can be carried out in the open, though it's required law in Pennsylvania that an owner be licensed. He's perfectly entitled to his opinions and to voice those opinions even if they're done in an offensive manner. Even though the suspension is said to be unrelated to his video rants, it's certainly easy to see why some interpret it as a political smokescreen.

On the other hand, Mark Kessler also comes off as someone who is extremely divisive when it comes to this issue. Rather than try to bring people together to find common ground, he's adopted what I call the "Redneck Method". The Redneck Method is made up of a couple of signature responses for dealing with whatever situation comes along, whether it be gun rights or something else. The first response is the perception that the government is going to break into people's homes and take all of their guns. This response is also usually applied when it comes to any government action that they don't agree with where they expect their laws are going to be magically eroded. A very common signature of The Redneck Method is categorizing people into two groups: those on my side and those who aren't. Anyone who isn't is frequently treated with hostility. Another theme of the "Redneck Method" is to essentially behave & walk around in a very macho sort of way while using fear & intimidation to bolster your position. If that sounds a great deal like bullying, that's because it generally is. According to the report that aired this morning, some citizens of Gilberton have stated that they're afraid of Kessler because of methods and see the Constitution Security Force as nothing more than a private militia ready to pounce.

What Kessler has done & said isn't all that uncommon from what we've seen & heard from people who have similar beliefs. However, the fact that Kessler is a law enforcement officer is part of what's thrown people for a loop. Many people do hold police officers to certain standards, some of which are ludicrously high, and are put off to see a police chief, small town or not, behaving like a gun crazy redneck.

Is there reason to be concerned by Kessler's statements & actions or is this something that's been blown way out of proportion by the political correctness police?

 

[George Steele's Barber]

The guy sounds like he wants to be a celebrity. I don't doubt he believes what he is saying but I question the strength, verocity, and genuineness of the delivery of his message. There's big money, fame, and power in being obnoxious. You don't have to be liked by everyone, just enough people to fill your world with plenty of attention and money. It's a great strategy. Tell people they are opressed or in danger of becoming opressed and they will follow (or at least enough of them will follow).

There are 7 billion people in the world but you only need to 1 million to give you a dollar to become a millionaire. The other 6,999,000,000 can hate your guts and it won't cost you a penny.

Kessler = Sean Penn

 

[LSN80]

I think to understand Kessler, one needs first to understand Gilberton first.

I say none of this as criticism or thumbing my nose at the town, just simple facts. It's a small, poverty ridden town made up of mostly redneck thugs. While the town council may not agree with his strong views, most of the town itself likely will. Being born and raised in Pennsylvania, and born not far from Gilberton itself(Lehigh, near Philly), I'm quite familar with the town. One of my closest friends from college grew up there, and soon after he graduated, he wisely got out. It's a town full of radicals that's poverty-stricken, and along with that, unfortunately, comes a high crime rate. If I lived there, I imagine I'd be quite passionate about keeping my guns as well.

As for Kessler's suspension, it's horsecrap of the highest level. His suspension for being on "Borough Property without Borough permission?" It's property that Mark Kessler himself donated to the Borough in the first place.

That being said,`I don't defend the actions or words of Kessler, in fact, I think it's deplorable. As for this:

One thing that has a number of people feeling nervous is that Kessler is the founder of the Constitutional Security Force, a gun rights advocacy group made up of 100 members that some feel is little more than a private militia.

Make no mistake about it, the CSF is a private militia. While they try to pride themselves as people with high moral authority, and expel members who even associate with known criminals, they expel people for another reason as well. If you associate with people who speak poorly of the CSF, or criticize them yourself in the slightest, you're gone.

What type of group does that sound like?

Look, I own a gun, and while I'm not politically active other then voting, I'm in favor of gun rights and the advocacy of those who own them to continue to do so. I believe those without criminal backgrounds or mental health disorders should be able to buy. But the problem with Kessler and his ilk is that they're dead serious about what they believe, and they take it too far. I honestly believe if the day came when guns were outlawed for private citizens, Kessler and his group would shoot dead those who came to collect, without remorse.

And for them, it would simply be in defense of their "Constitutional Rights".

But it's a statement he made to his local paper that scares me the most:

“Democrats are the most vile creatures in this country,” he said. “They are vile. They are evil, evil, un-American. I don’t even want to call them people because that’s being too kind. They’re scum. You go against your country. They hate their country.”

We have a Democrat for a President, which means over half of our nation are Democrats, or at least, voted that way. And if history has taught us anything, it's that people who consider certain groups of people "less then human" usually believe they should be exterminated, and would do so in a heartbeat.

And the man making statements such as these is the leader of a private militia group. I don't know about anyone else, but that's a scary thought for me.

I'm not even a Democrat, per se, as I agree with certain aspects and stances of both major parties, and vote for the man(or woman) I think is the better candidate, not by political affiliation.

As for what to do with Kessler, they should terminate him. Regardless of when he made his statements, he made homophobic slurs:

"Democrats are libtards who take it in the ass."

Further, he's essentially made veiled threats:

"All liberals and Democrats are enemies of the state. The Founding Fathers of the United States would have been shooting liberals years ago.”

Horsecrap or not, and be it a violation of his Constitutional rights, Gilberton needs to get rid of the guy. They found one trumped up reason to suspend him, surely they can more then justify using his recent words as reason to terminate him.

Would you want a man such as this, so filled with vile and hatred towards an entire group of people, as the police chief of your town?

Tell people they are opressed or in danger of becoming opressed and they will follow (or at least enough of them will follow).

The danger here is the nature of people who will follow. As was shown at the town meeting, people who weren't even residents of the city showed up, carrying guns. He hates Democrats, and his comments, while veiled, show a belief that he wishes Democrats would be exterminated.

I'm a big proponent of Freedom of Speech, but I wouldn't mind it violated if it meant people stopped following Mark Kessler. He's an advocate himself of freedom of speech, but the group he founded and is President of expels members who say anything contrary or negative about them.

That's tyranny. And even if he just "wants to be a celebrity", there are plenty of people out there who agree with him, and worse:

The strength, verocity, and genuineness of the delivery of his message.

My only fear is that if Gilberton ousts him as police chief(and they should), the strength and veracity of his message will only grow.

Along with those who follow him, as well. God help us if that happens.

 

[Natural Selection]

He has a right to his guns and his opinions. He's done nothing wrong and obviously has support from his town. He should be reinstated immediately. Even if he comes off as brash and offensive, that's his right. Everything he did is so basically right that it's covered by the first and second amendment. I stand by Mr. Kessler.

 

[LSN80]

He has a right to his guns and his opinions.

Even if, as police chief, he holds the opinion that all Democrats are sub-human, and essentially should be put to death? How about homophobic slurs?

Shouldn't there be some accountability, especially for someone in such a high position?

He's done nothing wrong and obviously has support from his town.

Hitler had plenty of support from his "town", and it resulted in the death of 6 million Jews. This is a terrible argument.

He should be reinstated immediately. Even if he comes off as brash and offensive, that's his right.

Sure it is. And it's the right of the town council to suspend and terminate him for it.

Call your boss an "a$$hole or a F*ggot publicly, even on your personal time, and see what happens. Just because there's freedom of speech doesn't mean some speeches are without consequence. The higher the office you hold, the more responsibility you have to be held to a higher standard.

 

[Natural Selection]

Even if, as police chief, he holds the opinion that all Democrats are sub-human, and essentially should be put to death? How about homophobic slurs?

It was on his own time and he didn't threaten to kill anyone.

Shouldn't there be some accountability, especially for someone in such a high position?

Not needed, all that needs to be said is that the office doesn't endorse his opinions only his right to have them.

Hitler had plenty of support from his "town", and it resulted in the death of 6 million Jews. This is a terrible argument.

Wow, the Hitler comparison didn't take long. I don't think it's quite the same thing.

Sure it is. And it's the right of the town council to suspend and terminate him for it.

Call your boss an "a$$hole or a F*ggot publicly, even on your personal time, and see what happens. Just because there's freedom of speech doesn't mean some speeches are without consequence. The higher the office you hold, the more responsibility you have to be held to a higher standard.

Yeah, probably not the smartest idea to make it a YouTube video. I still feel as if it's not an issue. Maybe he rubbed some people the wrong way, but what does it matter? He wasn't on the job. Therefore he wasn't representing anyone except for himself so it is what it is. The police chief has a right to the first amendment just like everyone else. Remember the first amendment isn't here to protect popular speech it's here to protect unpopular speech.


EDIT:

I honestly believe if the day came when guns were outlawed for private citizens, Kessler and his group would shoot dead those who came to collect, without remorse.

As would I and would strongly encourage you to do the same. When they come for the guns the hell is among us and is just beginning.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Yeah, probably not the smartest idea to make it a YouTube video. I still feel as if it's not an issue. Maybe he rubbed some people the wrong way, but what does it matter? He wasn't on the job. Therefore he wasn't representing anyone except for himself so it is what it is. The police chief has a right to the first amendment just like everyone else.

Typical liberal blather shitting on the employer for making a decision they had the right and power to make just because they don't like it. Take your French guy mask and go back to your Occupy Wall Street you 99% loving commie.

 

[Nate DaMac]

As would I and would strongly encourage you to do the same. When they come for the guns the hell is among us and is just beginning.

Yeah okay. I suppose all of the other civilized countries that have banned guns and also have significantly lower crime-rates than the US are in a current state of Hell. People like you who attach themselves so vehemently to their guns are the last people who need them. You're very clearly an unstable human being and everyone around you is in danger so long as you're allowed to have a gun.

When you say things like this, I certainly understand why you're an underpaid Pizzaman. I can only hope that your child is taken away from you before you're able to do any real damage to him.

 

[LSN80]

It was on his own time and he didn't threaten to kill anyone.

No, he just referred to Democrats as sub-humans and said that our Founding Fathers would be killing them off left and right. Then he went on to make homophobic slurs, saying all Democrats "take it up the a$$".

But because it was on his "own time", there should be no accountability.

Not needed, all that needs to be said is that the office doesn't endorse his opinions only his right to have them.

A police chief shouldn't be held accountable by his superiors for his opinions, even if they're terribly offensive and infer a large group of people should be put to death?

Who then, pray tell, should we hold accountable if men like Mark Kessler are not?

Wow, the Hitler comparison didn't take long. I don't think it's quite the same thing.

It's not the same thing, whatsoever. But your opinion was that "he has the support of his town, so it's ok".

Screw that. Plenty of tyrants in history and to this day have plenty of support of their beliefs, yet they're pure evil. I'm not suggesting Kessler is, but he's a homophobic, hateful man.

He heads a militia group that expels members who even slightly disagree with them, or even socialize with people that disagree with them.

What type of group does that sound like?

Yeah, probably not the smartest idea to make it a YouTube video. I still feel as if it's not an issue. Maybe he rubbed some people the wrong way, but what does it matter? He wasn't on the job.

It begs the same question as before: Who DO we hold accountable? Should we a Senator if he made such a video? How about a Governor? What about the President? If they made such a video on their "own time", it's a non-issue, right? Come on, now.

The man is a police chief. Whether you or he likes it or not, he represents the town of Gilberton at all times. He holds a position of incredible responsibility, and with responsibility comes accountability.

Being "off the job" is a cop-out. Like it or not, he should be held to a higher standard.

Therefore he wasn't representing anyone except for himself so it is what it is. The police chief has a right to the first amendment just like everyone else. Remember the first amendment isn't here to protect popular speech it's here to protect unpopular speech.

The first Amendment is here to protect all speech. Free speech from prosecution, not for keeping your job. If you're employed and have a boss, send him an email ranting against him "off the clock" calling him names, making veiled threats, and homophobic slurs, and see what happens.

My guess is, you won't have a job for much longer.

As police chief, a public figure, one represents their town at all times. In this case, he represents Gilberton. Even if he's sensationalizing, it paints his town in a poor light. And he should no longer represent them in such a high position of authority because of it.

EDIT:
As would I and would strongly encourage you to do the same. When they come for the guns the hell is among us and is just beginning.

And now you're encouraging cold-blooded murder. Would I agree with someone taking my weapon away? Heck no. But shooting them dead is the behavior of fanatical proportions.

Not to mention first degree murder.

 

[Natural Selection]

Typical liberal blather shitting on the employer for making a decision they had the right and power to make just because they don't like it. Take your French guy mask and go back to your Occupy Wall Street you 99% loving commie.

I wasn't shitting on anyone. I believe both parties are right in this situation. He had the right to say it, they had the right to take action. I was simply saying I didn't think they needed to.

Yeah okay. I suppose all of the other civilized countries that have banned guns and also have significantly lower crime-rates than the US are in a current state of Hell. People like you who attach themselves so vehemently to their guns are the last people who need them. You're very clearly an unstable human being and everyone around you is in danger so long as you're allowed to have a gun.

When you say things like this, I certainly understand why you're an underpaid Pizzaman. I can only hope that your child is taken away from you before you're able to do any real damage to him.

As for you you little cunt, you can fuck right off. I'm not so much vehemently attached to my guns as I am my rights. How fucking dare you take a simple conversation and turn it into I shouldn't have guns or children because I'm an unstable underpaid pizza man. Yeah, fuck you. What makes you so superior to me? Nothing, that's what. The crime rates aren't low in all those countries either, the gun crime is low, because the population is unarmed and police use of firearms isn't included in those numbers. Violent crime and crime are roughly the same if not higher than here.

No, he just referred to Democrats as sub-humans and said that our Founding Fathers would be killing them off left and right. Then he went on to make homophobic slurs, saying all Democrats "take it up the a$$".

But because it was on his "own time", there should be no accountability.


A police chief shouldn't be held accountable by his superiors for his opinions, even if they're terribly offensive and infer a large group of people should be put to death?

Who then, pray tell, should we hold accountable if men like Mark Kessler are not?


It's not the same thing, whatsoever. But your opinion was that "he has the support of his town, so it's ok".

Screw that. Plenty of tyrants in history and to this day have plenty of support of their beliefs, yet they're pure evil. I'm not suggesting Kessler is, but he's a homophobic, hateful man.

He heads a militia group that expels members who even slightly disagree with them, or even socialize with people that disagree with them.

What type of group does that sound like?


It begs the same question as before: Who DO we hold accountable? Should we a Senator if he made such a video? How about a Governor? What about the President? If they made such a video on their "own time", it's a non-issue, right? Come on, now.

The man is a police chief. Whether you or he likes it or not, he represents the town of Gilberton at all times. He holds a position of incredible responsibility, and with responsibility comes accountability.

Being "off the job" is a cop-out. Like it or not, he should be held to a higher standard.


The first Amendment is here to protect all speech. Free speech from prosecution, not for keeping your job. If you're employed and have a boss, send him an email ranting against him "off the clock" calling him names, making veiled threats, and homophobic slurs, and see what happens.

My guess is, you won't have a job for much longer.

As police chief, a public figure, one represents their town at all times. In this case, he represents Gilberton. Even if he's sensationalizing, it paints his town in a poor light. And he should no longer represent them in such a high position of authority because of it.



And now you're encouraging cold-blooded murder. Would I agree with someone taking my weapon away? Heck no. But shooting them dead is the behavior of fanatical proportions.

Not to mention first degree murder.

I think you're misunderstanding what I was saying. As I said above they have every right to take the actions they took, I was simply saying I didn't think they needed to.

It's not murder when they are invading my property with the intent to steal. I will defend my home from invasion. So, you have two choices allow yourself to be disarmed or stand your ground and defend yourself and your home.

 

[Nate DaMac]

As for you you little cunt,

Yes?

you can fuck right off. I'm not so much vehemently attached to my guns as I am my rights.

Well if they banned guns, owning one would no longer be your right. So why would you shoot anyone attempting to come in and get your guns? The same government that gave you those rights would be the one taking them away.

How fucking dare you take a simple conversation and turn it into I shouldn't have guns or children because I'm an unstable underpaid pizza man.

You're certainly unstable, that's pretty much etched in stone at this point. I never said that you're being an underpaid pizza man should prevent you from having your child, just that I understand why you've been relegated to that position. You're a nutcase.
\

Yeah, fuck you. What makes you so superior to me?

I'm not insane?

Nothing, that's what. The crime rates aren't low in all those countries either, the gun crime is low, because the population is unarmed and police use of firearms isn't included in those numbers. Violent crime and crime are roughly the same if not higher than here.

You're going have to offer up some proof here. Forgive me for not wanting to take the word of a nutjob.

 

[klunderbunker]

Natural Selection and Nate, if you want to continue this, do so here:

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=259657

so it doesn't take this thread off topic.