Man Arrested for Violating School Pickup Rule

[LSN80]

I'm trying to process the events that lead to the arrest of the man, and what law he broke that lead to his short stay in county jail. Perhaps our resident lawyer or law enforcement officer can help, because I'm not seeing how his actions violated any laws, let alone were found worthy of arrest.

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/dad-breaks-school-pickup-rule--gets-arrested-220428879.html

To reset, this entire non-event(in my eyes) occurred when Jim Howe, 40, attempted to physically pick his children up from school. Apparently, the school policy states that parents must remain in their cars while picking up their children, and are not to enter the school. Attempting to pick one's child up in any other way, such as coming into the school and accompanying their child(ren) to their car, is a violation of such school policy.

Howe, finding this unsafe, can be seen in the video uploaded with the article calmly discussing his reasoning for violation of such policy. As cars waiting to pick-up can stretch a mile long, Howe reasoned, it can become dangerous. Seems reasonable to me. Should I arrive late or at a time at school to pick up my children and find myself a mile away, I would go inside the school to gather my children as well. While I recognize it may cause some commotion and some disconcert inside the school, I consider with greater resolve what can happen in the course of chaos of school letting out(all of us remember it, surely)and in the space of a mile. It would be easy for a child to be grabbed in such commotion, or an injury or fight to occur. It may be the tritest of sayings, but better safe then sorry, I reason.

Howe's argument was very similar:

"It's not safe. It’s ridiculous. I didn’t intend to make a scene. But this is not about the policy. It’s about stripping parental rights away. You go in to get your kids, you should be able to get your kids.”

Howe's argument wasn't convincing to Cumberland, Tennessee sheriff deputy Avery Aytes, as can also be seen in the video. When Howe informed Aytes that he was taking his children with him 'according to state law', Aytes fired back that they weren't. When Howe once again responded that they were and that Avery was 'barking up the wrong tree', Aytes responded by telling him he was going to County Jail. Howe, for sake of his point of view, was more then willing to go.

How was released shortly after, and has agreed to follow the school policy "for the time being." Howe also noted that the school had somewhat acquiesced, and had cleared out cars that weren't being used for pick-up to a nearby lot, leaving more room for parents. Perhaps for Howe it was worth it, but I find it ridiculous that Howe was arrested in the first place for essentially wanting to keep his kids safe.

Thoughts on this? Was there anything here arrest-worthy?

Is the school policy a sensical one?

 

[Slash-LN]

I see nothing arrestable here. A dad was arrested because he wanted to do what he felt was safest for his children? And what you didn't mention in your post which adds a huge amount to this is that he was on foot and they told him he would have to go stand in the line of cars and that the line of cars stretches along side a highway.

I worked as a crossing guard for a school for a few months and I never had to deal with anything like this. I would say that nine out of ten parents went into the school to get their kids.

Down at the school that's about half a block from my house I don't know if it's a policy or not but the parents don't go in to get their kids. The line of cars definitely doesn't stretch to a mile long though. The parents wrap around in a line in the parking lot and the line spills out into the street and then a lot of cars park on my street because my street connects to the cross walk.

At my nephew's school they just have a couple teachers stand outside with the kids and they run out into the parking lot to whoever is picking them up. I've gone to pick my nephew up a few times and there's no hassle or anything there. Now at his school though they have the doors locked and there's an electric keypad on them. You have to know the code if you want to get inside so I don't know if they give the code out to parents or what but my sister works down there for their aftercare program and said the code changes every month.

The only policy that does kind of make sense was one we had in junior high that if you were being picked up by a parent or walking home you had to wait in the gym until the buses left because our buses were lined up next to the street and they didn't want us trying to cross the street when the buses were pulling out.

I know I kind of rambled about policies more than I did about this actual story but I didn't really know much else to say besides I disagree with it and it's stupid.

 

[klunderbunker]

School system: Parents need to get more involved!

Father comes to pick up his kids.

Deputy: You have the right to remain silent.

Obviously there's more to it than that but the idea works out the same.

This is a situation where things were blown out of proportion. The man clearly wasn't trying to hurt someone, he wasn't trying to cause a problem, he wasn't trying to make a point. He was trying to get his kids from school like dozens of other parents. That being said, he did indeed break a rule. Now, that being said, there's a big gap between what happened to him and what a reasonable punishment should have been. Something like a warning would have sufficed here rather than the man being locked up.

Given that the rule was changed after the fact, there must be something to what the man said. At the end of the day though, this was someone trying to make sure his children were safe and there's nothing wrong with that idea. He shouldn't have been arrested though. That's too much.

 

[Mustang Sally]

The arrest appears extreme, but I keep thinking of the Newtown CT shooting in which Adam Lanza "just" walked into the school and opened fire.

When school officials see an adult who doesn't work at the school enter the premises, they don't know what he's there for.

True, Mr. Howe was just there to pick up his children. But how do the school officials know that?

 

[Slash-LN]

The arrest appears extreme, but I keep thinking of the Newtown CT shooting in which Adam Lanza "just" walked into the school and opened fire.

When school officials see an adult who doesn't work at the school enter the premises, they don't know what he's there for.

True, Mr. Howe was just there to pick up his children. But how do the school officials know that?

He told them that's what he was there for. Obviously he could have been lying but he was talking to an armed police man in the video. He was in what looked like the front of the building. The police man could have easily stood there with him while he picked up his kids. If he tried anything he could have easily been apprehended. The police man he was talking to according to the story works in the school so it's not like they had to wait for him to get there or anything.

I understand the whole safety issue but how safe is it to let kids walk nearly a mile from the school on a road that runs along side a highway? Especially when one of his kids is 8 years old.

And what about his safety? The video says they told this man to go stand in the line of cars. Why couldn't they just ask him to wait outside of the school for his kids? He didn't drive to the school he walked there. Why should he go stand in a line of moving vehicles? And if he did that I'm sure the other parents wouldn't know he was told to do that and that could cause further problems with people waiting in their cars not knowing what he was doing.

 

[hatehabsforever]

I'm not really sure what all of the commotion is about. The school has a policy in place regarding the rules for picking up the children after school. In all likelihood, this policy has been in place since the beginning of the school year (and beyond). Parents are likely well aware of the rule. I imagine notes or newsletters were sent home from school, outlining the policy and the rationale for it. Emails as reminders were likely sent home regarding the rules. Parent teacher meetings, curriculum night at the start of the year, whatever, a policy has been in place, everyone is aware of it, and everyone else except this dude seems to be abiding by it. While there's no doubt that arresting the guy can be described as a little bit extreme, I have no doubt that the intention was to send a clear message to all parents that breaking this established rule of policy will not be tolerated. A slap on the wrist would be ineffective as a deterrent. Asking nicely probably wouldn't change the guy's mind. At the end of the day, he broke a well established rule and was shown on no uncertain terms that such behavior would not be tolerated.

Let's face it, the guy was arrested but it's not like they threw him in jail and threw away the key. He didn't exactly serve hard time or anything. It has been my experience at schools in my area that rules of this nature are often ignored. I guess they were sending a message that this would not be the case here. I doubt anything goes on the guy's record, and there's really no harm done.

How about if every second parent decided that they too are above the rules, and they all decide to go in to the school to retrieve their children. Mass chaos, which in today's crazy world can cause more peril than walking outside to meet your dad by his car. What happens if the waiting area is full of parents who feel the same way as this dude, and there's a need to evacuate the school? What happens if some kid gets abducted from the school by a guy who had no business being there in the first place and is in direct opposition to the established school policy. Who's liable in a situation like this? How about if a guy enters the school, in direct contrast to the well established school policy, and opens fire, something which is not out of the question in the public school of the US these days? How do you explain to the family of someone injured or killed in such an unfortunate scenario, when they ask "what was the guy doing in the school in the first place, I thought that was against school policy?" Who's responsible? Can you say lawsuit, anyone?

At the end of the day, park your car in the parking lot, walk up the road and meet your kid out on the sidewalk, and walk him to your car. Problem solved, and with no disruption to the school policy or smooth functioning. Because let's face it, the school policy is ultimately to protect the safety of the children. You can't simply let one guy unilaterally decide that he is above the rules and regulations being abided by by everyone else.

 

[Slash-LN]

At the end of the day, park your car in the parking lot, walk up the road and meet your kid out on the sidewalk, and walk him to your car. Problem solved, and with no disruption to the school policy or smooth functioning. Because let's face it, the school policy is ultimately to protect the safety of the children. You can't simply let one guy unilaterally decide that he is above the rules and regulations being abided by by everyone else.

Except no you can't. According to the article the new policy states that parents have to wait in their car. There is no parking your car and walking up to meet your kids. Either the kids wait for their parents to drive up to the school to get them or if they have permission they can walk down the line of cars to find their parents.

That's the whole point. This guy didn't drive to the school. He walked to the school and thought he should be able to pick up his kids. Instead he was told to go stand in the line of cars and wait for his kids.

I'm not sure if you watched the video or not but in the video it shows clips from a different video taken from a few weeks before that he was waiting outside the school and was confronted. So at least from the article it seems like they don't want parents going up to the school inside or outside.

Even if parents could just wait outside would that stop anyone from shooting people as they are coming out of the school? No it wouldn't. School shootings don't have to happen inside. One just happened not too long ago outside of a school where a kid shot a teacher and a couple other students.

 

[Mustang Sally]

He told them that's what he was there for. Obviously he could have been lying but he was talking to an armed police man in the video. He was in what looked like the front of the building. The police man could have easily stood there with him while he picked up his kids. If he tried anything he could have easily been apprehended. The police man he was talking to according to the story works in the school so it's not like they had to wait for him to get there or anything.

Your point is well taken, but the officer was able to spot Howe and find out what he was doing there because he was the only one the officer didn't recognize. However, if it's okay for Howe to break the school's policy, it's okay for other parents, too. Then, you have a hallway full of people the officer doesn't know, and he can't find out the intentions of all of them. That's the reason for the policy in the first place.

The biggest problem? If someone with bad intentions enters the school with the rest of the parents and causes bad trouble, I can just see Howe being the one to charge: "Why weren't you protecting our children?"

 

[Slash-LN]

Your point is well taken, but the officer was able to spot Howe and find out what he was doing there because he was the only one the officer didn't recognize. However, if it's okay for Howe to break the school's policy, it's okay for other parents, too. Then, you have a hallway full of people the officer doesn't know, and he can't find out the intentions of all of them. That's the reason for the policy in the first place.

The biggest problem? If someone with bad intentions enters the school with the rest of the parents and causes bad trouble, I can just see Howe being the one to charge: "Why weren't you protecting our children?"

I can totally understand that but at least from the video it looks like he's following whatever protocol the school has. He goes to the desk or counter or whatever you want to call it and signs in. I can't tell from the video if there are any other parents around. I can see students in the background that look like they are walking down some stairs.

I know in my post to you I said they could have asked him to wait outside the school but since that post I have rethought my position and decided that if a bunch of people were waiting outside it would still present a danger because anyone could just walk up and start firing.

The policy states that parents are supposed to wait in their car. He didn't drive to the school in this instance so what was he supposed to do? I will hold firm that he shouldn't have to go stand in a line of moving vehicles. However if he did that and walked up through the line and met his kids outside the school what difference would that make if he had just been standing outside the school waiting for them. Since they don't want parents to leave their car at all where does that leave people that don't drive to the school to get their kids? Obviously in his case he has decided to start driving to the school since this happened but what about people without cars for whatever reason? Should they really be standing in moving traffic?

I'd like to know how long this policy has been standing since it says it's a new policy. How new are we talking?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The elementary school my niece attends has the exact same policy. Prior to the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary almost a year ago, this policy didn't exist and the very notion of it was ludicrous and, frankly, it still is. It's a small school and pretty much everyone knows everyone else. There's also a list of people, given to the school by the parents, who are allowed to pick the kids up besides them. The list is still in play, but anyone picking the kids up have to stay outside the school to wait. It strikes me as something that's often more of a pain in the ass than anything else because it complicates something that used to be simple: picking up your kid from school.

When reading this, however, I can see where the deputy is coming from. It's his job to enforce the law as it is. The officer didn't recognize him, didn't know him, so how was he supposed to know what Howe's intentions were? For all he knew, Howe could have been some pedophile who wasn't aware of the policy posing as a parent coming to pick up his kid or kids from school. The deputy ultimately did what he's supposed to do after warning Howe several times about what's what.

It sounds like an incident that, like so many others, has gotten blown far out of proportion. Everything these days has to be made into a federal case by someone, somewhere and is a perfect example of what society is devolving into: I want everything my way and I'll raise hell if I don't get it. This type of policy can be a pain in the ass but, at the same time, people are screaming that they want better security whether it be at airports, stores, schools, etc. At the same time though, there's always going to be some sort of price or inconvenience to pay for that extra security, such as a longer wait in line or whatever. People want to feel safer or, in these situations, want their children to be safer, but they don't want to be inconvenienced.

 

[Slash-LN]

The elementary school my niece attends has the exact same policy. Prior to the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary almost a year ago, this policy didn't exist and the very notion of it was ludicrous and, frankly, it still is. It's a small school and pretty much everyone knows everyone else. There's also a list of people, given to the school by the parents, who are allowed to pick the kids up besides them. The list is still in play, but anyone picking the kids up have to stay outside the school to wait. It strikes me as something that's often more of a pain in the ass than anything else because it complicates something that used to be simple: picking up your kid from school.

They had a list like that when one of my nephew's was in preschool and I thought it was a good and safe idea. His preschool was really small though. I think they had about 30 kids or so and that wasn't too much of a problem. Especially when the people who were picking up the kids were the same people most of the time.

If the policy of the school in this story was that the parents had to wait outside then this guy wouldn't haven been in this position. That's what it is at my nephew's current school. We wait outside and the kids come out and we pick them up there.

However the policy at the school in this story is that parents have to wait in their car. They're not supposed to get out and walk their kid to the car. Either the kids have to wait for the line to move through or they have to be trusted to walk down the line of cars and find their parents or whoever is picking them up.

So on this day this guy didn't drive to the school and he was told to go stand in the line of cars on foot. I personally see that as being very unsafe.

A pedophile has a better chance at grabbing a kid inside a school where there's an armed policeman than they do grabbing a kid walking along a line of cars that according to the story stretches nearly a mile long?

I agree that the whole thing definitely got blown out of proportion though.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I remember being in elementary school and having not only a list of people that could pick you up, but the main office was right next to the entrance to the school. The office had those full size windows that you sometimes see in an office building, instead of actual walls. So you could see any and everyone walking in the front door. Middle school was the same way. Once I got to high school, it changed a bit. There was a list of people who were allowed to come into the school and sign you out if you had like a doctor's appointment, then they had to wait in the office until you showed up. If you were old enough to drive yourself, you had to have give an advanced notice of your leaving and have it cleared. Then in 2007, we had a guy just walk in the main entrance and sit down. All he did was sit there, but it freaked people out so they installed new security measures. The doors were unlocked between like 6:45 and 8:15 in the morning and 2:45 until 4:30 in the afternoon. Anytime other than that, you had to buzz in and they would pick you up on camera before letting you in.

I remember on days I had an early appointment, or my senior year when I left each day at 1:30 the pain in the ass it was to have to buzz in and wait on someone to buzz back, but it made people feel safer. Me personally, someone who hadn't been affected by a quote unquote lack of safety found it annoying but others felt safer with it so I guess it did its job, much like this policy, as much as I think the policy itself is BS. We live in a world today where the media will sensationalize every little thing, and then people respond with panic and a demand for action. When that guy came in(he was later found to be an Alzheimer's patient who wandered away from home) it was all over the news and the more uppity parents were in an outrage. They wanted the principal fired, and an armed security staff hired. You don't need a security staff for a rural high school of ~450 people, but people wanted it.

Jack-Hammer has a great point though. People complain they want to feel safer at the airport, while shopping, they want their kids to be safer, but they aren't willing to accept the work that goes into it. You can't have it both ways.