John Cena- 21st Century Hulk Hogan!

[d_henderson1810]

Many times, I see double standards from the IWC. Times where, if one talent does something, they are criticized for it, but your fave does the exact same thing, there is no criticism.

Many here bag John Cena all the time. Some of the criticism is valid, much is not.

Yet there is someone who has done exactly the same things, yet isn't criticised for it- HULK HOGAN!

Both overcome and are Supermen in the ring CHECK!
Both are three moves wonders. CHECK!
Both cut promos which are a load of rubbish a lot of the time. CHECK!
Cena visits sick kids, Hogan told children to "say your prayers and eat your vitamins".
Both have had crappy movie careers (Cena "12 Rounds", "The Marine", Hogan "Santa With Muscles" , "3 Ninjas on Magic Mountain").
Both don't put many people over in their career.
Both are pushed to the top of the WWF/E, stay there for years until they get stale.
Both had unnecessary title reigns.


Yet when Hogan does anything, he is lauded and given a pass, but when Cena does the EXACT SAME THINGS, he is criticised.

I smell hypocrisy!

 

[MartialHorror]

Er, Hogan actually started to get boo's before he turned heel in the WCW. In fact, in-story that was part of his motivation for forming the nWo. You don't hear those boos now because his career is over and people cheer out of nostalgia/respect. Eventually the same thing will happen to Cena. He will retire and come back for some special and people will love him.

It should also be noted that when Hogan started to get stale, there wasn't the internet to fan the flames. Also, the industry was much different back then as well. WWE Fans had different standards, preferring physique and charisma over in-ring abilities.

 

[Reflection]

Hulk Hogan doesn't get criticism? Umm... I don't know how you arrived to that observation, but I think he is universally considered among the IWC as the most selfish superstar of all time. Backstage politics, misusing creative control, refusing to lose matches, getting his useless friends employed, taking more money than he brings in etc. you name it, he did it!
People generally tend to give him the pass out of respect, but when it comes to critical examination, I don't think he is spared even a bit
The double standards among us internet fans definitely exist though, its an undeniable fact, although I'm not sure if this is the best example.

 

[steve storm]

i agree with your points and i've said for a long time that cena is this generations hogan. whenever someone gets popular cena either has to align himself with them if they are faces (reigns) or fight them if they are heels (wyatt). to me in the ring cena is more selfish than hogan. what annoyed me recently was for 2 ppvs in a row triple h (who has been accused so many times of burying talent which he has done in the past) orton and batista put over the shield clean and the right way. so why couldn't cena do the same for bray wyatt? would it really have hurt him? even in the cage match while the ending was different it was still a disgraceful way to "lose" the match. when was the last time u saw someone in a cage match walk out the door to win? and even then super cena had to look amazing and nearly beat all 3 of the wyatt family in the cage. at least hogan (eventually) turned heel and changed his character when he joined the nwo and reinvented himself. wrestling and fans are different now. back then before hogan went heel yes he got some boos but u'd never hear lots of hogan sucks chants like u hear cena sucks chants every week for the last couple of years (although he's been getting booed a lot longer than that) yet still cena won't comply or change anything about his character or in the ring. his matches and moves are predictable and boring but because he gets a response from the crowd that somehow justifies wwe and cena that he is doing everything right!

 

[MartialHorror]

To be fair, do we know whether it was Cena who determined who was the victor in his feud with Bray? I know more recently, Bray was supposed to defeat Jericho but Vince vetoed that.

Based on what Jericho has said, Cena's ego doesn't seem to be as out-of-control as Hogan's. Or at least he seems more willing to acknowledge when he was wrong. Maybe Cena did choose to go over Bray, but it is possible the wrong person is being blamed there.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Huh? Like we are supposed to complain about something that happened over 20 years ago. Before the internet existed, wrestling was on and available a fraction of the abundance we have today. All at a time that most of Cena's detractors were not able to stay up past 7 o'clock and the insider wrestling knowledge didn't go any further than "I know it is fake".

Let me get my rusty pitchfork.

 

[steve storm]

i know that ultimately its vince who decides who goes over but top guys can determine and have a say in such issues and surely if cena wanted to help elevate others and he is viewed as the TOP guy in wwe if he was to say to vince look i think it would benefit bray to beat me clean to help our feud then i'm sure vince would allow it. the wrestlers along with agents are also the ones who plan their matches to so surely cena has a big part in saying how his match layout will go so he must be the one who comes up with all the stuff where he doesn't sell properly and has to look good by beating up all 3 members of the wyatts in the cage match etc. so i think he has a lot to do with his matches and the outcomes. like i said if triple h with all his power etc has no problem with putting guys over properly like daniel bryan and the shield why can't cena?

 

[MartialHorror]

So you think Cena should go out of his way to put others over him?

Why is Cena getting this reputation when Stone Cold Steve Austin also had a reputation for being reluctant to put people over him? With Hogan, Brett Hart and Shawn Michaels, they were at their most notorious before the internet became popular. But Cena is not the only person to do this and yet is always pointed out as being the prime example...even if, for all we know, he isn't the one suggesting it.

Would it be cool if Cena chose to put over Wyatt? Sure, but I would only hold it against him if he was the one who pushed for him to be put over Wyatt.

Also, it should be noted that every successful wrestler has a huge ego and most get to the top by putting themselves over while guys who suffer the wrong losses end up becoming Ryback. Hell, Goldberg's career never recovered because of the end of his streak. So it's not really fair to blame someone for not going out of their way to lose.

Of course, if there's any proof that Cena put himself over Wyatt, then ignore everything I just said.

 

[gh88us]

I have been a wrestling fan since 1983. I remember the days of AWA on ESPN, Georgia Championship Wrestling on TBS, UWF and WCCW.
The thing that bothers me about Cena, he doesn't take a beat down and stay down. This superman front that he puts on kills whoever he is facing.
Atleast back in the day, Hogan, Flair, Martel, Bockwinkle, Lawler, Macho Man, ETC would take a beating, get carried out, have his ribs wrapped or whatever it took to make the opposition look legit.
With the Wyatts, they should have had a major beat down involving all three members, have Cena carted out, maybe miss a few Raws, then come back and feud with each member. But no, he supermans up and beats all three like it is no big deal.
That is why so many dislike Cena.

 

[Catacomb]

another factor is wwe has 5 hours of tv a week now and cena (with very few exceptions) appears on raw multiple times. hogan would maybe have a 30 second interview in his heyday. for the people who didnt like hogan it was easy to get past it, for the people who dont like cena too bad, hes in a majority of the segments.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Hulk Hogan doesn't get criticism? Umm... I don't know how you arrived to that observation, but I think he is universally considered among the IWC as the most selfish superstar of all time. Backstage politics, misusing creative control, refusing to lose matches, getting his useless friends employed, taking more money than he brings in etc. you name it, he did it!
People generally tend to give him the pass out of respect, but when it comes to critical examination, I don't think he is spared even a bit
The double standards among us internet fans definitely exist though, its an undeniable fact, although I'm not sure if this is the best example.

Hogan gets criticism now, because he wrote a book where he brags about burying people, others say the same thing about him in their books, and Hogan even exposed his family to a reality show, where we saw the "real" Hulk Hogan, warts and all.

Also, Cena is accussed of being selfish, refusing to lose matches etc, and this is DURING his career. Hogan did not get most of his criticism until recent years. When he wrestled, the sun shone out of Hogan's anus as far as the fans were concerned.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I have been a wrestling fan since 1983. I remember the days of AWA on ESPN, Georgia Championship Wrestling on TBS, UWF and WCCW.
The thing that bothers me about Cena, he doesn't take a beat down and stay down. This superman front that he puts on kills whoever he is facing.
Atleast back in the day, Hogan, Flair, Martel, Bockwinkle, Lawler, Macho Man, ETC would take a beating, get carried out, have his ribs wrapped or whatever it took to make the opposition look legit.
With the Wyatts, they should have had a major beat down involving all three members, have Cena carted out, maybe miss a few Raws, then come back and feud with each member. But no, he supermans up and beats all three like it is no big deal.
That is why so many dislike Cena.

Cena doesn't take a beat down and stay down?

What about Hogan? Let's review the finish to most Hogan matches.

Gets punched- Hogan shakes head- gets punched- Hogan stands up, stares at his opponent, while puffing, points finger, punches opponent, throws to ropes, big boot, atomic leg drop, crappy pin, Hogan wins, and still champion.

This happened 99 times out of a hundred. Is that taking a beating and staying down? Just ask Big John Studd, King Kong Bundy, Iron Sheik, Roddy Piper, Mr Wonderful and numerous others who came out on the short end.

Hell, when Hogan lost his title to Andre, it had to be screwy, and Hogan raised his shoulder. So he couldn't even put over a 7-foot giant cleanly, yet Cena lost cleaning to midget Daniel Bryan.

I didn't see Cena get credit for putting Daniel Bryan over clean at "Summerslam" last year, and making DB look like a star, yet Hogan didn't take a clean pinfall for years.

 

[d_henderson1810]

So you think Cena should go out of his way to put others over him?

Why is Cena getting this reputation when Stone Cold Steve Austin also had a reputation for being reluctant to put people over him? With Hogan, Brett Hart and Shawn Michaels, they were at their most notorious before the internet became popular. But Cena is not the only person to do this and yet is always pointed out as being the prime example...even if, for all we know, he isn't the one suggesting it.

Would it be cool if Cena chose to put over Wyatt? Sure, but I would only hold it against him if he was the one who pushed for him to be put over Wyatt.

Also, it should be noted that every successful wrestler has a huge ego and most get to the top by putting themselves over while guys who suffer the wrong losses end up becoming Ryback. Hell, Goldberg's career never recovered because of the end of his streak. So it's not really fair to blame someone for not going out of their way to lose.

Of course, if there's any proof that Cena put himself over Wyatt, then ignore everything I just said.

Cena put Bryan at "Summerslam". You remember him, the guy who everyone jerked off about at WM this year. Cena made Bryan look like a star in that match. It was Orton and Triple H who buried Daniel in that match, not Cena, but Cena got no credit for that.

SCSA, Triple H, Kevin Nash, HBK, and many of your other faves do the exact same thing, or worse, and don't get the heat that Cena did. Hell, Bret Hart refused to do the job at SS '97, and was treated like a martyr. This is what I mean by IWC hypocrisy and double-standards.

But do you know who was one of the most selfish in the ring- Hulk Hogan. Hogan buried more guys than I have had hot dinners, and bragged about doing it.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I have been a wrestling fan since 1983. I remember the days of AWA on ESPN, Georgia Championship Wrestling on TBS, UWF and WCCW.
The thing that bothers me about Cena, he doesn't take a beat down and stay down. This superman front that he puts on kills whoever he is facing.
Atleast back in the day, Hogan, Flair, Martel, Bockwinkle, Lawler, Macho Man, ETC would take a beating, get carried out, have his ribs wrapped or whatever it took to make the opposition look legit.
With the Wyatts, they should have had a major beat down involving all three members, have Cena carted out, maybe miss a few Raws, then come back and feud with each member. But no, he supermans up and beats all three like it is no big deal.
That is why so many dislike Cena.

I'm trying to think of the last time Randy Orton, C.M. Punk,Undertaker, Triple H, SCSA or even Hulk Hogan were stretchered off, and send to a nearby medical facility.

Please provide examples of when each were carried off and missing for months in a "storyline beating" or stretchered off.

 

[d_henderson1810]

i know that ultimately its vince who decides who goes over but top guys can determine and have a say in such issues and surely if cena wanted to help elevate others and he is viewed as the TOP guy in wwe if he was to say to vince look i think it would benefit bray to beat me clean to help our feud then i'm sure vince would allow it. the wrestlers along with agents are also the ones who plan their matches to so surely cena has a big part in saying how his match layout will go so he must be the one who comes up with all the stuff where he doesn't sell properly and has to look good by beating up all 3 members of the wyatts in the cage match etc. so i think he has a lot to do with his matches and the outcomes. like i said if triple h with all his power etc has no problem with putting guys over properly like daniel bryan and the shield why can't cena?

What did you think of Hulk Hogan winning the belt at WM9, when it was meant to be Bret Hart's time? Again, a Wrestlemania had to finish with Hogan as champion.

Who do you think pushed that? Hogan, Vince or both?

Sure, Bret got the title and his push the next year, but Hogan had left by then, to avoid being anywhere near WWE when they were facing drug allegations, to avoid hurting his "brand".

 

[d_henderson1810]

The fact is, you wrestling fans changed, not the wrestling landscape.

You accepted Hogan's antics because you were young, naive, less cynical. But today it is cool to bag everything, and not be invested in anything.

The problem isn't Cena, it is each and every one of you. You people changed, so it is your fault, not anyone else's.

You need to stop being cynical and start BOLIEVING again.

 

[MartialHorror]

Cena put Bryan at "Summerslam". You remember him, the guy who everyone jerked off about at WM this year. Cena made Bryan look like a star in that match. It was Orton and Triple H who buried Daniel in that match, not Cena, but Cena got no credit for that.

SCSA, Triple H, Kevin Nash, HBK, and many of your other faves do the exact same thing, or worse, and don't get the heat that Cena did. Hell, Bret Hart refused to do the job at SS '97, and was treated like a martyr. This is what I mean by IWC hypocrisy and double-standards.

But do you know who was one of the most selfish in the ring- Hulk Hogan. Hogan buried more guys than I have had hot dinners, and bragged about doing it.

Er, I was agreeing with you. But as I said, these guys were around long before the IWC was, so why waste time bitching about the past? Cena is the 'now'.

Hell, when Hogan lost his title to Andre, it had to be screwy, and Hogan raised his shoulder. So he couldn't even put over a 7-foot giant cleanly, yet Cena lost cleaning to midget Daniel Bryan.

To be fair, at that point, Andre was on the tail end of his career. It's tradition than the guys on their way out put the newer guys over them, which is why everyone thinks Bryatt will ultimately win his feud with Jericho. Hell, Hogan even did it for Ultimate Warrior and Yokozuna and Kidman (although admittedly, that was poorly handled).

 

[Reality_Check14]

Do I think John Cena is today's Hulk Hogan? Absolutely and not for negative reasons either. For one to be compared to the biggest star in the history of the industry is an honor. They are very comparable both are the top guy in the industry for their particular era. Both guys are the biggest draws & money makers in their era. The majority of their fan base is the kids. Both give back to the fans such as Make A Wish and other charities. Both are celebrities in the main stream. Both have over 10 World Title reigns, Both have had legendary matches etc.. I could keep going on. The thing is John Cena is the top guy in the business, and deservingly so. He carries himself with class & integrity, he has a passion for the industry like very few do and he is always there when needed. His work ethic alone should be used as an example for young people all over. He deserves all the success he has gotten.

The truth is and I have seen this so many times over the years, society will cheer you on the way up but the moment you are successful they can't wait to see you fall. Right now the flavor of the month to hate has been Cena, eventually you will add others to the list in the future. I remember when HHH was on top, it was the same kind of hate, same with Austin and Rock and Hogan. I think one of the things also that hurts is over exposure and today's fan base have very short attention spans. Back in the 80's you didn't see the top stars all the time or the big money matches but when you did it meant something, now you see them all the time and people's attention and patience don't last. I think these reasons and others are why the top baby faces don't have the longevity of popularity like the stars of the past. This has been your Reality Check!!!

 

[Catacomb]

Cena doesn't take a beat down and stay down?

What about Hogan? Let's review the finish to most Hogan matches.

Gets punched- Hogan shakes head- gets punched- Hogan stands up, stares at his opponent, while puffing, points finger, punches opponent, throws to ropes, big boot, atomic leg drop, crappy pin, Hogan wins, and still champion.

This happened 99 times out of a hundred. Is that taking a beating and staying down? Just ask Big John Studd, King Kong Bundy, Iron Sheik, Roddy Piper, Mr Wonderful and numerous others who came out on the short end.

Hell, when Hogan lost his title to Andre, it had to be screwy, and Hogan raised his shoulder. So he couldn't even put over a 7-foot giant cleanly, yet Cena lost cleaning to midget Daniel Bryan.

I didn't see Cena get credit for putting Daniel Bryan over clean at "Summerslam" last year, and making DB look like a star, yet Hogan didn't take a clean pinfall for years.

yes it had to be screwy so wwe could have the title tournament at wm4, it had nothing to do with hogan "not wanting" to put over andre, hogan put over andre a lot in the past when hogan was heel.

also if you actually watch hogans matches he mixed up the ending a lot, it wasnt until about 90/91 when he hulked up all the time. in fact hogan beat taker in 1991 without hulking up once. im not a hogan or cena hater, not really a big fan of either too, but when you generalize it just makers you look like you have no clue what youre talking about

 

[d_henderson1810]

yes it had to be screwy so wwe could have the title tournament at wm4, it had nothing to do with hogan "not wanting" to put over andre, hogan put over andre a lot in the past when hogan was heel.

also if you actually watch hogans matches he mixed up the ending a lot, it wasnt until about 90/91 when he hulked up all the time. in fact hogan beat taker in 1991 without hulking up once. im not a hogan or cena hater, not really a big fan of either too, but when you generalize it just makers you look like you have no clue what youre talking about

What about how Hogan bragged in his book about how he took the attention of Ultimate Warrior at WM6 by handing him the title? It looked like a sportsmanlike act, but Hogan bragged that he did it so that he was in Warrior's spotlight. So Hogan let Warrior pin him, but then tried to bury him after the match, by taking his "moment".

Like I mentioned earlier, Hogan had a habit of that. He did it to Bret Hart at WM9, but winning the title after Hart lost it, but wouldn't fight Hart for the title, or give him a rematch.

Did Cena take Daniel Bryan's spotlight at "Summerslam"? I didn't even see him after the match. No, Orton and Triple H more buried DB after the match.

Cena has put over C.M. Punk and Randy Orton many times, as well as Daniel Bryan. He lost the cage match to Bray Wyatt.

If Cena wins, you say he buried someone, but if he loses, you claim interference. Wrestling 101 has your top face lose controversally, while the heels cheat to win. It has happened since year dot. Cena is just the latest recipient of it. If Cena does a clean job to everyone, then beating him wouldn't elevate anyone, since it wouldn't be a big deal anymore if you use Cena as a jobber.

 

[MartialHorror]

It's been a long time since I read Hogan's book, but he does indicate that he doubted the Ultimate Warrior would be able to carry the company (and he was probably right, Warrior's legendary reputation probably stems from not being around long enough for his weaknesses to become so apparent) and he noticed the crowd seemed more interested in him or something like that. Admittedly, Hogan probably was making excuses, but I didn't interpret that as bragging or intentionally stealing the spotlight.

The tricky thing with Hogan is whether you like him or not, whether his ego was out of control or not, he actually did bring the most mainstream attention to the industry. Everybody knows who he is, whether they watched any of his matches or not. Hogan being in the spotlight drew more attention than anyone else, whereas guys like Ultimate Warrior were primarily only known by wrestling fans. No one has yet to truly recapture that kind of fame, including the Rock or John Cena. It is, in the end, all about money. Hogan winning, Hogan being the number 1 guy, that WAS best for business even if it ended up hurting other careers in the process.

Unfortunately that logic ended up backfiring during his WcW days, but that is another story.

 

[Aquaman6686]

I didn't see Cena get credit for putting Daniel Bryan over clean at "Summerslam" last year, and making DB look like a star, yet Hogan didn't take a clean pinfall for years.

Hogan put over several guys clean when it mattered. Ultimate Warrior pinned him clean at WrestleMania 6, The Rock pinned him clean at WrestleMania 18, Kurt Angle made him tap out at King of the Ring 2002, and Brock Lesnar beat him by KO on SmackDown.

Guys like Hogan, Triple H, and John Cena get crap all the time for "refusing to put over" other guys, but EVERY top star is guilty of it. Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Kevin Nash, Stone Cold Steve Austin, and any other top star in wrestling, they've all refused to put over talent at one point or another. When you're a top guy and have some degree of control, you want to make sure your losses mean something. If only Chris Jericho and Kane would learn to do the same thing.

 

[bioshock]

People disliked Hogan the same way. Watch some of 1993 Raw episodes and Hogan had boo chants all over the place, many Hogan Sucks chants, and he was booed most of the time in WCW before turning heel. And even if you look back in the 80s there were times he was booed, but it was by a small tiny majority of fans who usually liked Piper more.

Plus your also forgetting that during Hogans run, he wasn't on tv every week, he wasn't wrestling weekly, his matches were seen once a month on SNME or the few PPVs they did. He wasn't hardly on the weekly shows, unlike Cena on 52 weeks a year, 12 ppvs per year. For the past 10 years.

 

[steven87gill]

yet Cena lost cleaning to midget Daniel Bryan.

I didn't see Cena get credit for putting Daniel Bryan over clean at "Summerslam" last year, and making DB look like a star, yet Hogan didn't take a clean pinfall for years.

That's because the very next night he came out with his elbow taped up, telling us he's got a busted arm & needs to leave for surgery not that he was making excuses or anything therefore completely pissing all over Bryan in the process. Implying he was going to leave whether he won or lost? They even brought his shoulder injury up before the match.

There's always a built in excuse with this guy. At least when Hogan lost to Warrior there was no weaselling out of the clean job after-the-fact.

 

[Bockwinkel's Class]

Many times, I see double standards from the IWC. Times where, if one talent does something, they are criticized for it, but your fave does the exact same thing, there is no criticism.

Many here bag John Cena all the time. Some of the criticism is valid, much is not.

Yet there is someone who has done exactly the same things, yet isn't criticised for it- HULK HOGAN!

Both overcome and are Supermen in the ring CHECK!
Both are three moves wonders. CHECK!
Both cut promos which are a load of rubbish a lot of the time. CHECK!
Cena visits sick kids, Hogan told children to "say your prayers and eat your vitamins".
Both have had crappy movie careers (Cena "12 Rounds", "The Marine", Hogan "Santa With Muscles" , "3 Ninjas on Magic Mountain").
Both don't put many people over in their career.
Both are pushed to the top of the WWF/E, stay there for years until they get stale.
Both had unnecessary title reigns.


Yet when Hogan does anything, he is lauded and given a pass, but when Cena does the EXACT SAME THINGS, he is criticised.

I smell hypocrisy!

Actually people DO criticize Hogan over it.....they just get shouted down by the Hogan marks in particular and the WWF/E/Vince marks in general.