Is the WWE finally listening to us?

[D-Man]

Tons of us complain on these forums day in and day out. We all feel the need to spread our "smark-dom" and think that we know what's best for the WWE to improve. We do this because we are fans, we love pro-wrestling, and we want to be entertained by them as much as we have in the past because they've done it before and they can do it again.

Each week we see more and more threads on the internet (not just on this forum) with the IWC's suggestions for improvement and explanations of what would entertain them on WWE television. For years, these views have fallen on deaf ears. It almost seemed as if the WWE did the exact opposite of what we were suggesting just despite us. But a lot of this has changed, as of late. The changes I'm referring to are as follows:

Improvement in the Tag Team Division
Improvement in the Midcard
More (moderate) focus on the Women's Division
Reduction of the "Hot Potato" of Title Belts
Pushing of Midcard Talent to the Main Event

...and most recently...

Carlito's Promo on Raw (I understand that a thread has already been created for Carlito's promo from last night on Raw, but this thread is designed to extend upon it.)

When Carlito gave his sermon to John Cena last night on Raw, I was absolutely floored for a few reasons. First of all, just last week I was wondering what the hell happened to Carlito and when he would return to television. I was answered last night as he returned to the ring (obviously) clean shaven, leaner, and in much better shape than he was a few months ago. Even though I was excited (because I enjoy Carlito's character and was happy to see him on TV again), I was also a bit confused. I didn't understand why he would come out to interrupt John Cena and was afraid that he was going to say something meaningless on the microphone and get squashed again. But then he spoke... and he proceeded to say exactly what we've all been thinking for the past year. In three minutes, he basically covered the IWC's negative opinions of the oversaturation of John Cena, midcard talent being held down, and seeing the same main events over and over again on WWE television. With that promo, as far as I'm concerned, the WWE has finally begun to address every problem that I've had with the current product.

I'm excited to see the WWE's writers build on this storyline with Carlito. There are so many possibilities as to where it could go. So many midcard stars can be pushed from this. Main event guys like Randy Orton, HBK, and Triple H can finally step aside and feud with these midcarders to give them the rubs they deserve. A breath of fresh air is going to come over Raw and we're going to see new faces and new storylines take front seat.

I'd like to hear everyone else's views. Does anyone feel as I feel? Do you believe that the WWE is finally beginning to listen to us? Are you excited, too? Or are you all just going to shoot it down and think negatively until you see some real results?

Just a reminder... this is a NON-SPAM forum. If you do not understand the rules in regards to SPAMMING, please see the forum rules before posting!

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Okie dokie, interesting stuff.

While it's entirely possible that the WWE is finally "listening" to us, I think there's an X-Factor to be considered.

They're finally ABLE to listen to us. Or further than that - they've been listening, but have been unable to ACT on it. Let me explain...

The improvement in the tag division, well, I don't see it to be honest. You have JeriShow running the entire division, you have Degeneration-X which is a short-lived solution to place two top dogs in a program that allows younger stars to step into the singles spotlight, you have The Hart Dynasty and Cryme Tyme in an endless tango of futility, and even last night, you saw Mark Henry catapulted into the US title picture, effectively ending his tag team run with MVP. It may FEEL as though the tag division in improving because a) there are champions we care about, and b) the tag titles are bringing us one of the main events at the next PPV, but that's an anomole that took months to build.

The improvement of the mid-card took time. Finally, WWE has solid mid-carders with some experience who are not violating the wellness policy and who aren't issues backstage. It took a while to get the likes of Morrison, Miz, Kofi, Sheamus, etc. up and running. So while I'm sure the WWE WANTED to elevate the midcarders for a long time, they may just not have felt that they had the right mix of guys ready to do it until now.

The women's division? Please. Arguably the best female wrestler in the WWE - Beth Phoenix - is practically jobbing to Mickey James on Smackdown. Just because the women finally have a storyline doesn't mean the division is improving, and until WWE realizes that their women's division isn't deep enough for two women's titles, it's not going to go anywhere.

Hot potato title belts I will agree with. They read the signs of the fan grumblings, the reduced excitement over title changes, etc. Build-up is lasting longer (thank Chris Jericho for reminding the WWE how that works, see his feuds with Michaels and Mysterio, as well as with the "legends" and Mickey Rourke.) and the blow offs are harder to call than ever.

And mid-carders in the main events? Absolutely. I think a HUGE mistake WCW made with the New Blood and TNA made with the Front Line was the fact that they called these kids out as "young" and tried to set them up as underogs and trying to set the veterans up as heels. The result? Heels often got cheered for nostaliga, and the entire practice insulted the fan intelligence. It doesn't feel like Kofi is fighting Randy Orton because "Kofi's young." It feels like he's fighting him because he doesn't like him. And THAT is the willing suspension of disbelief that we need as fans.

Carlito's promo was an extension of the reaction WWE got on Ventura's quasi-shoot last week on Raw about the sense of entitlement in the veterans and the need for a new, young champion. Fans want to feel they have something to look forward to, and like Seamus's push or not, you NEVER saw it coming so soon. His promo on Raw last night prior to Santino's interruption was brilliant, and the kid has future as bright as his skin.

Maybe they were listening to us. Or maybe they are just now able to do something about it.

 

[Coco]

I actually see this Carlito promo as an extension of Jesse's Break Through storyline from the week before, an extension of Kofi's recent break-out push, and an extension of the establishment of some new upper-midcarders in recent months. While it has something to do with the fans (at some point, no matter how much Vince McMahon likes to close his eyes and pretend we're not here, you have to realize you're playing to an audience... more on this later), I think this has more to do with WWE finally snapping out of their funk and realizing they need to give people a reason to care, build new stars, and in general freshen up the product.

Suddenly, stale ass Batista has turned heel and becoming important.

Suddenly, Taker isn't that random Phenom guy. He's a purposeful killer drawing men to their doom with dreams of the World Championship dancing in their head.

Suddenly, off-month PPVs are being used as they should, to throw the occasional bone and give someone new a title shot. Yes people, that's right. Even I don't think John Cena needs to be involved in the most epic match of all time (~!) every single month.

Suddenly, bland-ass Legacy stop getting their spare asses forced into a round hole. Suddenly, distinct guys or guys we care about are getting real pushes and chances.

Suddenly, we have a few real feuds outside of the main event that have promos and are built on something more than random brawls (Which is all I think Legacy and DX did with eachother... Why? Oh no, we lost in a submission match! Let's defend our honor!).

WWE, slightly before or after Bragging Rights, snapped out of a little bit of that funk they've been in for the last few years. The improvements are little and growing, but it's more of an effort than they've thrown our way in ages. Tip of the cap to them for trying. Like I said, I think once you've done almost every possible main event with your current handful of favorites a million times, you have to smarten up and close that gap between the midcard and main event a bit (a gap that's grown far too much in recent years).

On the other hand, yes, part of this is for the fans because the best way to get someone over is to go with things the people already care about. Morrison is being touted as the next Michaels, has a great look, and works well? Push him! People like seeing Shelton in ladder matches? Alright, that's how we'll use him! Kofi gets more heat than Legacy? Okay, break through! It can't all be for the fans though. Eventually, with a distinct looking big man like Sheamus, not everyone will be chomping at the bit to see him get a major push right away. But some people just need to be put out there, trial by fire, jump in with both feet, and let the people decide.

Yes, the WWE is listening to us more than usual. It's been going on for a couple months at least. It's not a lot, but it's something we should sink out teeth into.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'd say there has indeed been improvements and while we may say a lot of these things, I don't really think it's fair to attribute them to us. What a lot of people seem to either forget or just not want to admit is that Vince McMahon is an absolute wrestling genius. He's been around and in the main mix of wrestling for over 25 years. That's over 3 times as long as Heyman and Bischoff.

Vince knows what he's doing more than anyone else in the wrestling business. Now people are likely going to say/think that I'm just another Vince follower that thinks whatever he says is gospel. I think the term is now shareholder or whatever. Here's the thing: you can blast Vince and hate everything he does and think he's an idiot that knows nothing all you want and that's fine. The fact of the matter is this: Vince has survived longer than anyone else ever has and has been so close to the brink of destruction time after time only to wind up surviving. The man is the #1 reason why wrestling is what it is today and he knows how to keep his company alive. He has his terrible moments, but the thing is he knows better than anyone how and when to just turn on the jets and leave everyone else behind.

How many times have you sworn up and down you won't watch Raw ever again but then they hit it out of the park and you're glued to the show for another two months? You don't think Vince, who is the WWE which is why I'm using these interchangeably, knows when the people aren't liking his product? You have to let some things go through the bad times. Think of Austin. When he first got to the WWF, he was nothing special at all. Vince saw something in him though and kept him. In other words, he knew better than the audience.

Vince knows what he's doing and he knows when to make changes. That's what he's doing now and it's working.

We may all want certain changes to be made, but they have to be timed right. If Kofi had gotten this push 4 months ago, not one of us would have bought it because he wasn't ready for it yet. Same is true for Morrison or Sheamus. They got the seasoning they needed and here they are. Vince hasn't failed yet and he's not going to for a long time. He knows what he's doing very well.

 

[shafe_41]

Improvement in the Tag Team Division
Improvement in the Midcard
More (moderate) focus on the Women's Division
Reduction of the "Hot Potato" of Title Belts
Pushing of Midcard Talent to the Main Event

I'm not seeing all these improvements either. I'll touch on each briefly.

Tag Division- How? DX? Really? This is just a short solution to an ongoing problem. There's no improvement here at all. They'll have a match at TLC, it buys the WWE time for right now until they can throw Jeri-Show in the Rumble, DX in the Rumble, and pretty much just mull around until Edge comes back. I see no long term plans or improvements for the Tag Division unless DX wins the titles at TLC, and somehow get them to the Hart Dynasty in a very short amount of time because you know come Mania, the E doesn't want DX in the tag title picture.

Midcard- These improvements aren't new. I've been saying since just after Mania this year, that the WWE has improved drastically. This is especially true for the mid-card. Miz, Morrison, Swagger, etc... have all been featured pretty prominantly. And as of late, Kofi especially. Add Carlito's speech last night on Raw and you have the mid-card continuing to improve every single week even though I still believe it's been good for at least the last 7-8 months.

Women's Division- I don't see this at all. It's a clusterfuck. Other than Melina and Maryse on Raw, there is zero focus at all on a pecking order of the women there. Will Gail Kim ever be booked properly? Will Jillian ever get the respect she deserves? I love Melina and Maryse, but they aren't the only women's talent on Raw. It's a disaster.

"Hot Potato" the Titles- It's been 1 PPV. Don't assume that yet. However, it's late in the year and they're really starting to try to plant the seeds to build-up for Mania. I think the Hot Potato thing was interesting because for a few PPVs there, you really never knew what would happen and that kept things interesting. The reasoning of "Cena won the title 3 weeks ago, he won't drop it at this PPV, lets not watch this PPV," was no longer valid. We wanted more unpredictability in the WWE, the WWE tried to give it to us by way of the title tossing, but we still weren't happy. I'm glad there's some stability now with them, but I don't believe it's for the sake of no more throwing them around. It's for the sake of building up to Mania and planning the next few months of TV pretty carefully.

Pushing the mid-card- See "Improvement on the mid-card."

I posted this in a previous post also but I'll elaborate on it here as well.

Carlito's awesome promo last night was awesome. I really hope that they actually act upon that statement that Carlito made about how "all the guys in the back are sick of you Cena and want their shot." I would love to see a mid-card coalition all gunning after Cena. Like a Main Event Mafia of the midcard that all want to take down Cena. Everybody says stars are made in stables that involve midcard members. It's true. Look at Legacy. They finally make DiBiase and Rhodes look like actual stars and not just lackeys. That wasn't the case last night sadly, but it's happening. Look at Evolution. Evolution single-handedly built Orton and Batista. It was a beautiful thing. Now they've all had headline talent leaders, but I'm sure if you throw enough mid-card eggs in the basket, one will hatch into a superstar. I hope this statement from Carlito actually means something and that we are going to see Cena take on all comers and not just those in the main event picture.

I've said this a ton and I'll keep preaching it until the WWE drops the ball. There have been many improvements since Mania/Backlash. That's when I noticed the transition really starting. They keep building on it and we're going to have at least another 3-4 main event stars at this time next year to really mix things up. Kofi and Morrison will be there for sure. Edge will be back... as a face. That will mix it up. Hopefully Christian can get the resepct he deserves to be in the main event as well. Add in the newly heel Batista and Punk, stir, and let simmer for the next 12 months and I think you have some damn good television come this time next year. It's good right now though as well because we finally get to see this transition and build happen.

 

[Adalam]

I'm going to focus solely on the Mid-card and hot-potato title improvements. The only long-term champions we have at the moment are Jerishow, The Miz, Morrison, and Michelle McCool. Cena and Taker haven't had their titles for all that long, but Taker is the most likely to go for a long title run. However, there is still the fact that Edge may very well return in time for Wrestlemania or even the Royal Rumble and feud with Chris Jericho, so the title may hot-potato from Taker to Jericho at the Rumble.

Now, as for the mid-card, Sheamus, McIntyre, Kingston, The Miz, and Morrison are the top mid-carders at the moment and Christian moving into the main event scene sometime after 'Mania may very well bolster the Main Event roster that so far consists of {SD: Taker, 'Tista, Jericho, Edge(Hurt); Raw: Cena, Orton, DX; ECW: All Mid-carders} So the fact that guys like Sheamus and Kingston are getting pushes by feuding with Cena and Orton respectively has shown that the mid-card is slowly losing young, seasoned guys to the Main Event scene.

 

[Blade]

I don't think WWE is listening to us, to be exact, but rather it's just a complete coincidence that they are sorting out the problems that we found with WWE a year or so ago. They're just a little late in realising how bad the problems are and how much they could end up costing the WWE. I don't think it has anything to do with us. But we should all be delighted that they're dealing with the problems in such an effective way.

The midcard is more interesting than it's ever been, mostly thanks to the current US champion and IC champion. Miz and Morrison are two of the best in the WWE at the moment, every week they show that they're future main eventers.

And that's why the midcard is getting so good again. They're pushing people who will actually be future main eventers. No Santino holding titles. No Regal or JBL. Just Morrison, Miz, Ziggler, Swagger, McIntyre and so on.

The Main event scenes are pretty good at the moment too. Taker has kept the World title for almost 3 months and Cena's WWE title reign has been going for almost as long. There's new faces in the main event too, and this looks to continue until Wrestlemania, where the big draws will take centre stage again. But after that, WWE will go back to making stars again.

As for the Carlito promo, that was awesome. Best thing I've ever seen Carlito do. The message in the promo was very interesting. I'm quite hoping that it leads to an angle like Main Event Mafia vs Frontline. The only difference is that WWE will be able to book it so much better than TNA.

Oh, and the Little people court was scrapped. Thank God. And the replacement segment with Swoggly and DX backstage was actually mildly entertaining. And it wasn't too long.

 

[Midnite Express 2009]

I loved the promo cut by Carlito as well. I just wish that Cena hadn't attacked him. That being said, while I know it was a "work" persay, I wish it were a "shoot" and perhaps in some regards it was a shoot. No one but 12 year olds likes John Cena. Why? The man has been shoved down our throats for the past 3 or 4 years, has never changed his gimmick (i.e. turned heel or anything to give us a chance to see a fresh Cena) and has basically been the mirror imagine of one Hulk Hogan going into a new decade. So for the better part of the latter half of this decade it's been Hulk Hogan version 2.0. I hate it. So again, that being said, I do think the WWE is somewhat listening to the grumbles that fans have been giving. They have no other choice. If they keep saying "it's all about the fans" then damnit, make it about the fans. NOT who THEY think should be on top because us "wrestling fans" are too stupid to think for ourselves.

I loved what they did with Jesse V. last week. I think he started the ball rolling by giving his promo, Carlito followed it up and now it's getting interesting. They've torn Cena & Orton apart from each other, have Orton occupied with Kofi (and for the record, having Orton beat Kofi last night was a good idea, as it keeps heat on Orton and makes Kofi look like now he HAS to do something to get even).

My only problem with this whole thing is who they picked to be the #1 contender. I mean in retrospect maybe Sheamus was the default guy since Kofi is busy and no one else other than the Miz is able to step up while Kofi does his thing. Yet I still find it troubling because in the end, Cena will win, rid us of Sheamus and perhaps go back to what he does best...Keep the title around his waist. So I ask you, are they really listening or do they just hear "something"?

 

[Supersayin]

As for the Carlito promo, that was awesome. Best thing I've ever seen Carlito do. The message in the promo was very interesting. I'm quite hoping that it leads to an angle like Main Event Mafia vs Frontline. The only difference is that WWE will be able to book it so much better than TNA..

And then you wake up. The carlito promo was good and true but it is not going to lead to anythig just like WWE has proven over and over again. The MEM storyline was a masterpiece, a work of art if you would like. It brought in who knows how many hundreds of thousands of viewers. WWE would suck at doing The young VS Veterans, it wouldnt draw like TNA did or WCW did with NWO.

 

[RavensFlock1990]

Tag Team Division - It still sucks. Why were the tag champs in a PPV world title match? That alone shows the tag titles are nothing but props for Jericho and Show to carry around. DX will likely break up right after they lose at Armageddon. The only real tag teams right now are Cryme Tyme and Hart Dynasty and neither have a shred of credibility.

Mid-card - Its pretty good right now. Kofi, Miz, Morrison, MVP and Matt Hardy are great. I don't care about guys like Swagger, Ziggler, McIntyre or Escobar tho. Half the mid-card is great and the other half are generic bores.

Womens division - Lets be honest......who gives a shit?

"Hot Potato" Title belts - I think its just a coincidence right now. Taker is one of the few guys that WWE can feel comfortable with as a long term dominant champ. And since Orton can't get any more title shots against Cena and HHH is busy selling DX merch there's nobody with any credibility to take the belt from Cena right now.

Pushing mid-card talent to main event - I'd be all for it if it was someone I gave a rats ass about. Most WWE fans had NO IDEA who Sheamus was when he won the breakthrough battle royal. He's not even big enough to be a believable monster and he sucks on the mic. Everytime he comes out you can hear a pin drop. He just has the feel of Kozlov all over again.

 

[thedrizzle007]

Mid-card - Its pretty good right now. Kofi, Miz, Morrison, MVP and Matt Hardy are great. I don't care about guys like Swagger, Ziggler, McIntyre or Escobar tho. Half the mid-card is great and the other half are generic bores.

So basically what you're saying is you like all the guys who they want you to like (Miz being the exception), and don't like all they guys they don't want you to like?

When it comes to the midcard, there's not been a stronger one in years. In fact, I think the only problem with the midcard is there's too much great talent for all of it to shine, hence we have great stars such as Ziggler, Bourne, and Swagger who don't have anything to do right now.. except be "generic bores".

The Tag Division? At least they're trying, I guess. DX is actually doing a bit of entertaining this time around, Jerishow is a great team despite what anyone says and it's been great having Y2J on RAW. Legacy could do so much for the Tag Division, but they stopped their push, dead in its track.

And come on, let's face it.. to have a better Women's division you have to have better Divas.. at this point they have 2, maybe 3 decent to good Divas... Maybe they should stop recruiting from Playboy or modeling agencies.. and possibly from the indies?

 

[WWF Wrestling Fan]

WWE Is slowly listen to us after almost a year or more with the Cena Orton feud they finally stopped that feud we wanted to see someone else go after the title besides Orton HBK and HhH Is Sheamus the right choice who knows but at least its someone fresh and new and I for one hope Sheamus beats Cena I don't like John Cena one bit and what Carlito said last night was the truth John Cena is hogging the main spotlight on everyone there's more people in WWE that deserves the spotlight then Cena HHH & Orton Like Mark Henry yeah hes been a ECW Champion but he has never been a WWE Chamipon and hes been in the WWE sense 1996. so why not give Sheamus or other people who have neverget a chance at the title to do so i think when Jesse The Body told everyone about the breakthrough concept last week every fan got excited and happy again because WWE is finally listening to us fans Thank God to.

 

[RavensFlock1990]

So basically what you're saying is you like all the guys who they want you to like (Miz being the exception), and don't like all they guys they don't want you to like?

When it comes to the midcard, there's not been a stronger one in years. In fact, I think the only problem with the midcard is there's too much great talent for all of it to shine, hence we have great stars such as Ziggler, Bourne, and Swagger who don't have anything to do right now.. except be "generic bores".

The Tag Division? At least they're trying, I guess. DX is actually doing a bit of entertaining this time around, Jerishow is a great team despite what anyone says and it's been great having Y2J on RAW. Legacy could do so much for the Tag Division, but they stopped their push, dead in its track.

And come on, let's face it.. to have a better Women's division you have to have better Divas.. at this point they have 2, maybe 3 decent to good Divas... Maybe they should stop recruiting from Playboy or modeling agencies.. and possibly from the indies?

Well obviously I don't just like faces if I like Miz. I like wrestlers that are entertaining in some way. Miz can work a crowd like few in the company can and has improved alot in the ring.

I didn't care about Kofi until the RAW where he destroyed Orton's car. He showed he could cut a good promo and gave me a reason to care.

I actually prefer Morrison alot more as a heel but he's my favorite wrestler to watch in-ring atm.

The reason I don't like Swagger is cause he sucks ass on the mic and he bores the fuck outta me in the ring. He also has a strange look. Reminds me of Lanky Kong.

McIntyre is just really generic. His promos are boring and so is his ring work. He's not really bad at anything he just bores me and has no stand out quality to make me care.

 

[Paradox]

And then you wake up. The carlito promo was good and true but it is not going to lead to anythig just like WWE has proven over and over again. The MEM storyline was a masterpiece, a work of art if you would like. It brought in who knows how many hundreds of thousands of viewers. WWE would suck at doing The young VS Veterans, it wouldnt draw like TNA did or WCW did with NWO.

Out of all I've read in this thread your post has to be the worst that I've read.

You want to talk about something going no where, what happened to the frontline? They went no where. Did nothing just became a bunch of new faces that never won anything. Main Event Mafia, was one of the worst stables I've seen. It was terrible, let's give all the old wwf guys and sting the titles and let's hold down our younger talent. When did TNA start getting better? Oh, that would be as the MEM was disbanding.

It brought hundreds of thousands of viewers, yet still couldn't compete with WWE. It's funny, TNA signs Hogan and gets the same if not better ratings than the MEM angle. It didn't draw in TNA, and it would draw in WWE. Why? Because people care about Chris Jericho, Shawn Michaels, Triple h, John Cena, 'Taker. I could go on, but you get my point People care about these men. Not Kevin Nash, Scott Stiener, or Booker t.

WWE in the past hasn't pushed stars the way they've need to, but. Kofi is now entering the main event with his feud with Orton that has been done extremely well over the past month. Sheamus is starting to feud with Cena. When was the last time the WWE midcard looked this good? It's been a long time. Batista has become a heel and people actually want to watch his matches. 'Taker isn't just the deadman that goes around with no purpose anymore like he did for the past couple of years. Like someone said earlier he's using the title to lure people in and then getting them...

WWE's product is getting better, and better one week at a time. Things are looking up, I want to see what happens at TLC. Because that will give you a good idea of where they are headed for Mania.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I wouldn't necessarily say that the WWE is listening to the IWC. It's possible I suppose, but unlikely. It's probably little more than a coicidence that the WWE has been making these improvements. I don't really care about a reason just so long as the improvements are being made.

As for an improvement in the tag team division, I think there was very much and improvement over this past summer. Jeri-Show is a good team and they made every other tag team they went up against look like good, solid competition for the titles. Now, over the past 6 weeks or so, the tag division has slowed down considerably and it looks as though Jeri-Show might be close to ending. I'm not going to say that the tag division is spectacular, but I think that it's been head and shoulders above what it has been for the past few years at least.

There's been a definite improvement in the WWE mid-card scene. All you have to do is watch any of the WWE's programming and it's obvious. It's taken time for it to happen, but it has happened.

As to the Divas...well I'm not really so sure about that one. Too many of the Divas are pure piss inside the ring. However, do I think the WWE could have a serious women's division if it wanted to? Absolutely.

As to a reduction of playing Hot Potato with the straps, I definitely see it with the ECW, Intercontinental, and United States Championships. Christian has made me give a damn about the ECW title once more, I think he's been a great champion. Rey Mysterio and John Morrison have brought genuine prestige to the IC championship, Kofi Kingston did the same with the United States title and made you really believe he was thrilled to be champ and now the Miz is turning out to be a great heel U.S. champ. As for the WHC and WWE titles, the WHC has found some stability with the Undertaker. Even though I look for him to drop the title sometime soon to Batista, he's having a good run with the title and if he does drop it to Batista, I look for the same longer runs with him. The WWE Championship needs a lot of work I think. It's changed hands so many times over this year and it's been to the same people. Whereas the WHC changed hands more than a few times this year, guys like CM Punk and Jeff Hardy made it exciting.

 

[Supersayin]

You want to talk about something going no where, what happened to the frontline? They went no where. Did nothing just became a bunch of new faces that never won anything. Main Event Mafia, was one of the worst stables I've seen. It was terrible, let's give all the old wwf guys and sting the titles and let's hold down our younger talent. When did TNA start getting better? Oh, that would be as the MEM was disbanding.

It brought hundreds of thousands of viewers, yet still couldn't compete with WWE. It's funny, TNA signs Hogan and gets the same if not better ratings than the MEM angle. It didn't draw in TNA, and it would draw in WWE. Why? Because people care about Chris Jericho, Shawn Michaels, Triple h, John Cena, 'Taker. I could go on, but you get my point People care about these men. Not Kevin Nash, Scott Stiener, or Booker t.

I said it brought hundreds of thousands of viewers, to compete with WWE they needed like 3 million more viewers. And Hogan hasnt even showed up yet so dont mention him to make your your useless arguement look legit.

TNA ratings were at its peak beginning of the year with MEM storyline, on the other hand nothing in WWE draws because they have to have Hollywood to come save them every week. Once the celebs go, they will go back to doing 2.9, 3.0.

 

[wrestling fan 666]

I think that WWE is listening to the forums. Case in point; a few weeks back, I mentioned that Mickie James has never moved from Raw and it was time for new competition with her cause she was getting stale. Look what happened, they moved her...not saying that I have the power; but they just may be looking for new creative ideas.

It was mentioned about what happened to Carlito, now a comeback. It was mentioned that people were so bored with the same PPV's featuring the same people going for the title in different type of matches, now they are mixing it up. It was mentioned that people were getting tired of the same old 'Taker routine of just appearing occasionally and winning, now he is wrestling more than ever and defending the belt regularly. It was mentioned that there was too much Cena, now he's not on every show. It was mentioned that there were too many PPV's, now they took one away. These are just a few of the ideas.

I feel that the best way to satisfy your fans is to actually listen to them. Not all ideas are bad, and the WWE is not stupid.

 

[Wrestling_Alumni]

I think it seriously has a lot to do with Hulk Hogan and TNA. Vince knows his limits and regrets and he is scrambling to make WWE better. I believe with Hulk Hogan Randy Savage and a couple big names TNA could be the next wcw. Then again it's WWE and We play hard

 

[Jack-Hammer]

WWE draws because they have to have Hollywood to come save them every week. Once the celebs go, they will go back to doing 2.9, 3.0.

Yeah, I'm afraid that's not exactly accurate. WWE Raw's average rating for 2009 overall thus far is a 3.6. With the exception of the Donald Trump episode, which scored a 4.5, no Raw episode with a guest host has scored ratings that Raw hasn't achieved earlier in the year without celebrity guest hosts.

Raw's yearly rating for 2008 was a 3.2. If Raw averages a 3.6 for this year, it's an increase of about 460,000 homes with somewhere in the neighborhood of 800,000 to 1,000,000 viewers watching the show that weren't watching it last year.

 

[Alex]

I think it's due to Vince preparing for Hogan's and Bischoff's arrivals in TNA, Vince doesn't want to play catch up with another company, he wants them to be chasing him.

Another reason was possibly the older demographic was disgruntled with the current product and stopped watching and Vince is trying to bring them back with some new things.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

First of all, I don't think it's a stretch by any means for WWE Creative writers to visit wrestling forums. I know I would certainly do the same if I were on the Creative Team, for some honest feedback on what fans want to see, what they enjoy, and what they don't like. However, in all honesty the Wrestlezone Non-Spam forums is probably the top forums I would visit, because as a writer, I am interested in the WHY as opposed to the spam comments like:

"WWE sucks", "WWE is stale", "I can't stand John Cena because he only knows 5 moves", "Cena needs to turn Heel", "I wish Hornswoggle would die", etc.

You have a professional forum with posters that can clearly articulate their positions through well-written posts, with posters not afraid to have a respectful, heated debate with each other ... who can type posts that are legible and easy to read .... then who knows? It goes without saying that you won't get Vince McMahon himself to search forums, but for Creative Team members ... sure, I think it's a good possibility. You just have to make the forum professional enough to make them want to give you a chance to be heard.

Now, then. It appears that WWE is starting to listen to some of the things the fans have been saying. Although, this process began before Hulk Hogan was signed with TNA.

It was most apparent since right before Wrestlemania. We had fans upset left and right about how the Intercontinental Title was rendered meaningless. And where as I was disappointed with what they did with the actual match with JBL and Rey, at least they worked an IC match into the Mania card and actually began focusing on the title.

We, the IWC, have been upset over the lack of emphasis on the Midcard Division. We have been telling WWE that not pushing Midcard wrestlers and making the Midcard titles meaningless is only damaging future Main Eventers.

Vince adopted a horrendous philosophy over the years that "Only the Main Event matters, and everything else is filler." We've been telling him that this is a mistake, because it's only going to cost you down the road. He finally appeared to wake up in this regard, and is doing a very admirable job with pushing the Midcard and emphasizing their titles, once again.

The fans have let Vince have it with the amount of Hornswoggle on TV. Hell, at one point, he absolutely buried Chavo Guerrero for over 9 week straight since the middle of July through September and October. Fans lit Vince a new one and the result seems to be a reduction in the amount of time Hornswoggle appears on TV. Yes, unfortunately he still appears, but overall it is less time.

IWC fans have been upset over a stale Main Event. WWE finds a way to get Sheamus involved in the Main Event, through a Battle Royal scenario. They gave the fans someone new, and personally, I think the fans need to SHUT UP about it. I will take Sheamus any day over another damn Randy Orton vs John Cena or Triple H vs John Cena feud. Be happy with what you get, until the others can develop. Deal with it.

Introduction of jobber matches is another thing I see the WWE listening to the IWC over. This a great thing, and WWE needs to do more of it. Why? Because it preserves feuds from being given away for free on WWE television, and allows an opportunity for them to be built up where they actually count ... on Pay Per View.

Speaking of which, the WWE has seemingly listened to the IWC on the concept of PPV's. Where as I despise the company naming the PPV's such generic names like "Hell in a Cell", "TLC", and so forth ... and I would rather them use those titles as bi-lines under a better sounding title for the show ... I applaud WWE for listening to the fans who are saying that PPV's lack that special feel, and fans expect more out of them.

There are 4 major things I would like to see the IWC continue to push Vince on, relentlessly. Why? Because they are good for the overall business.

1. Face/Heel commentary teams- You saw the magic with Vince and Jesse in the booth. And for those newer fans that complain about people like me complaining .... you saw the magic that it provides, as well. This will make your broadcast so much more entertaining, it's unreal. The more entertained the fans are by the announcers, the bigger Payoff you will receive as the talent on the screen will have the attention of the audience.

Vince feels that "All attention should be on the wrestlers, and NOTHING should take away from it."

The only problem is that if fans AREN'T entertained by the broadcast itself, they aren't going to care about the wrestlers who are wrestling. And we've seen that the past couple years.

The Face/Heel commentators can make a bad match into a decent match in the eyes of the fans and have the ability to cover bad matches by entertaining the crowd through their banter. But they can turn a good match, into a great match.

2. More characters in wrestling- the days of wrestlers calling themselves by their real names ... a habit that was really pushed in WCW when Scott Hall and Kevin Nash left the WWE to sign with the competing organization ... is really a passe concept. Where as it was a novel idea at the time to get away from such names like "The Mountie", "The Berzerker", "The Warlord", "The Barbarian", etc. the problem is that they've become boring.

Simply calling a wrestler by their true real name, having them go out and wrestle a match without any personality (or a very toned down one) is a flawed concept. Again, they need personality and they need character. If the fans DO NOT care about the character, they aren't going to care less about their wrestling ability. They could put on a 4 or 5 star match, and the crowd still will not care.

And this is where the ROH-botz are WRONG! It's fine to be fans of technical wrestling. However, you need the characters and dramatic personalities to go along with the ability, or else it makes for an extremely boring product.

You wonder why the crowds are so awful, nowadays? It's not the crowds. It's the product they are given. And that is evidenced by the same consistent pattern happening all over the country, with the decline of crowd reactions.


3. Bring back the Ringside Managers- No, I am not talking about translators, girlfriends, stylists, agents, or any of this other garbage. I'm not talking about Ranjin Singh, Rosa Mendez, or any of this other stuff.

I am talking about people who are MANAGERS- people the quality of Bobby Heenan, Jimmy Hart, Slick, Mr. Fuji, Sensational Sherri, Paul Heyman, etc. Interesting, colorful personalities.

they added a whole entire new element to the match that fans have either forgotten ... or newer fans aren't familiar with, because they haven't lived through a time period where they were emphasized. This also coincides for the need for more "character" in wrestling.

Not only do these characters add a plethora of new possibilities for storylines, angles, opportunities to create dramatic and humorous television ... but they also add an entire whole new element to the matches themselves.

New possibilities for match endings, additional drama during the match itself with the manager's facial reactions if their talent is in trouble or doing well, they can rile up the crowd when the crowd is becoming dead for a slow part of the match, they can light up a crowd if the opponent gets revenge on a manager through taking a well-deserved bump.

They are an essential element to the entertainment, which is what I thought WWE is supposed to be all about. World Wrestling Entertainment.


4. Tag Team Wrestling- is an excellent way to give young guys experience, and give older guys relevant ... while giving the crowd a breather between Singles matches. You put too many Singles matches together, and the crowd gets bored.

Tag Team Wrestling has a whole series of elements of dramatic moments that are impossible to get out of a Singles match. Again, it's all about Entertainment, and if done right and invested in to ... Tag Team Wrestling and a solid Tag Team Division can really contribute to the overall product.


So keep hounding the WWE Creative Team, and maybe they, in turn, will keep hounding the WWE Head Writer, Vince McMahon, and be able to convince him that he has been wrong on those concepts over the years .... and who knows ... maybe there is hope for Mr. McMahon after all to pull himself out of whatever phase he's gone into these last few years, and bring back the old Vince McMahon we all used to know.

 

[Tastycles]

Of course the WWE isn't listening to us. The IWC doesn't have a coherent voice, nothing close to it. I shall be using Sidious' sig as an example because it is on my screen right now. He talks about ROHbots and WWE Shareholders. I absolutely hate the terms, but there's no denying that there is a significant number of each type of person. For every person telling you about how Cena is the greatest of all time, there's another telling you that he is being shoved down our throats. In short, every single opinion on professional wrestling is catered for in the IWC in abundance, so whatever the WWE does it is going to be doing something that somebody asked for and the opposite of what someone else asked for.

People are looking at the outcomes, without looking at the reasons behind them, and are getting the wrong idea, let me show you.

Improvement in the Tag Team Division

While I think it's a lot better than it was a year ago, that is not the consensus. I have stated on countles occaisions that this idea of a decent tag division is a myth, and if anyone wants to argue it, look at my post in KB's recent death of tag team wrestling thread. Without digressing on the matter any further, I will say that I'm not sure there has been an objective improvement in this area.

Improvement in the Midcard

This is definitely true, but again, people have missed the much bigger reason for this. A quick look at the history books gives us the answer. At No Way Out 2008, Raw had a 6 man elimination chamber, a title match and a retirement match. That is 10 participants. 18 months later, half of them had left the company. WWE needs stars, and it needs them fast, and the only way to do it was to build a credible midcard. I'm not even really sure this is the case anyway. The Miz isn't feuding with anyone, he's just appearing every week. Kofi didn't feud with anyone either, neither did MVP. The Intercontinental title has been boosted by two/three feuds certainly, but I'm not sure that constitutes as big a shake up everyone seems to be seeing.

More (moderate) focus on the Women's Division

Really? You're seeing that? Because I'm seeing the same old thing.

Reduction of the "Hot Potato" of Title Belts

Average World title reign WrestleMania XXIV - XXV: 54 days
Average World Title reign WrestleMania 25 - present: 37.5 days

Pushing of Midcard Talent to the Main Event

This is basically the main thing they have done in the past few months that's any different from last year, and it is certainly very refreshing. However, there are two reasons for this. The first is a necessity. Big Show is in a programme, so is DX, so is Orton. Who is left to face Cena? There has been a time this year when Edge, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Batista, Matt Hardy and The Great Khali were all out at the same time through injury. Clearly, it was shown to be necessary that more talent was needed. The second is the fact it is the right time to get new guys in the main event. The last big influx of main eventers occured in 2004-5 with Cena, Batista, Orton etc. all getting their shot. The last influx before that was a few years prior. Wrestling tends to be cyclical like that. The fact it is Sheamus and The Miz that have been promoted and not Shelton Benjamin and John Morrison should show that it ain't the IWC's idea.

Carlito's Promo on Raw (I understand that a thread has already been created for Carlito's promo from last night on Raw, but this thread is designed to extend upon it.)

Two words: Vince Russo. That was probably the most Russo-esque thing I've seen on an episode of Raw for about ten years. Funny how it is actually very similar, but opposite, to the TNA storyline, isn't it. Bischoff has gone to TNA with the mantra "don't beat them, be different". How do you stop the competition being different? Copy them with bigger stars. That storyline, promo, whatever you want to call it had more roots in the TNA production room than it did on these boards.