So last night Wrestlemania went off with the 3 man crew we're used to seeing, Stryker, Cole and Lawler. Of course I noticed in the main event the absence of a sentimentally favorite voice, good ol JR. Now while I still don't know JR's condition I may be speaking out of place when I say this. However given the report today that JR is basically being squeezed out by WWE without an actual farewell performance on TV or PPV do you think JR is being given the shaft by the company? Personally I do think there is something wrong with JR not being given a true chance to say goodbye after 2 out of the last 3 WM's had retirement matches. (Now even though some people don't believe last night's HBK match was the last one let's take it at it's word for a second.) Anyway what do you think about WWE's plans just to let JR fade away?
Is the WWE doing JR a disservice?
- Thread starter wbuqed
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Alright, so searching through the various threads on last night's epic Taker vs HBK II match I noticed a few people say something that I believe is 100% true, and so I have decided to make a thread about it.
I don't know any clever way to start this so I will just come out and say it: Jim Ross should have called HBK vs Taker II last night. Was the match epic? Hell Yes it was, and I think it could be one of the greatest matches of all time in terms of storytelling in the ring, but watching it, I just couldn't help but feel like it was missing that "Ross" Effect. Jim Ross could make a match between The Brooklyn Brawler and Bastion Booger seem like The Greatest Match of All Time! He is just special, and I think the WWE should have honored those two legends last night by giving their match the best in all aspects. I mean, JR was in the building, he was ready to go, but reports are coming out that WWE wants to move away from him? Why? Jerry Lawler is still commentating, and he has been doing it for just as long as JR, so why deprive the fans and the wrestlers of having that special kind of commentary that JR provides? Does he have to be on TV every week? No, but should he be apart of Wrestlemania, and should he have been apart of what happened last night, HELL YES! So what do you guys think?
1: Did the WWE deprive you of anything last night by not letting JR call HBK vs Taker II last night?
2: Do you think WWE is making a huge mistake by planning on keeping JR off the air from now on?
IMO, the answer to both of those questions are a big YES.
I don't know any clever way to start this so I will just come out and say it: Jim Ross should have called HBK vs Taker II last night. Was the match epic? Hell Yes it was, and I think it could be one of the greatest matches of all time in terms of storytelling in the ring, but watching it, I just couldn't help but feel like it was missing that "Ross" Effect. Jim Ross could make a match between The Brooklyn Brawler and Bastion Booger seem like The Greatest Match of All Time! He is just special, and I think the WWE should have honored those two legends last night by giving their match the best in all aspects. I mean, JR was in the building, he was ready to go, but reports are coming out that WWE wants to move away from him? Why? Jerry Lawler is still commentating, and he has been doing it for just as long as JR, so why deprive the fans and the wrestlers of having that special kind of commentary that JR provides? Does he have to be on TV every week? No, but should he be apart of Wrestlemania, and should he have been apart of what happened last night, HELL YES! So what do you guys think?
1: Did the WWE deprive you of anything last night by not letting JR call HBK vs Taker II last night?
2: Do you think WWE is making a huge mistake by planning on keeping JR off the air from now on?
IMO, the answer to both of those questions are a big YES.
He's the voice of the WWE and him not at least calling the main event was disrespectful to him and to the fans. This is the biggest match of the year, at the biggest event of the year but you put your #1 announcer on the bench. You don't have a star the caliber of HBK lose a retirement match and NOT have JR call it as long as he has breath in his body.
No disrespect to the announcers they try hard, but JR really helps to set the mood of the big money matches.. probably because he's as big a fan as any of us, probably moreso.
No disrespect to the announcers they try hard, but JR really helps to set the mood of the big money matches.. probably because he's as big a fan as any of us, probably moreso.
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
You really think that they didn't come to JR and ask him did he want to call the last match or Wrestlemania for that matter? Maybe they did and he turned him down. JR is one of the greatest and I'm sure they didn't go into this without asking him about. If he wanted to call Wrestlemania, then they would let him.
Umm...no Kenan, you're wrong. The plan was for JR to call Wrestlemania as of a few weeks ago, but the WWE themselves decided that a four hour broadcast at Wrestlemania might be too much for JR to handle on his first night back since his last bells palsy attack. JR wanted to atleast call Taker/HBK, but the WWE didn't think he was ready to come back yet.
Check your facts before you post man.
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
My bad then. I'm just surprised that he didn't at last call Taker/HBK but I'm glad that the WWE was concerned about his health and felt that he wasn't ready. Hoepfully he can get better and he can call WM 27.
Can one announcer really make you feel like you've been deprived? That's a topic open for debate, but my opinion is this: if an announcer matters that much then you're not watching the beautiful storytelling Undertaker and Shawn Michaels were showing in the ring.
In my opinion, I think the WWE is doing a lot of things right. Most of us grew up watching the Attitude Era, but I think WWE is bringing the wrestling business back slowly but surely with the changes they've brought by appealing to the masses. And face it, we (IWF) are not the masses.
But to not steer off into another topic, JR is the past. Like I said before, I love his announcing and I miss him, just like I missed Gorrilla Monsoon when he left the announcer's table way back when. But WWE's during a transtional period, much like in the 90's, and I don't mind moving on from the announcing style JR brought to the table to whatever the WWE considers "modern".
Point is, change is inevitable.
King Blitzkonic
Manager to the Fizzled Stars
The following is the poster's own view and is not reflective on those of Wrestlezone or the WWE. Please forgive him for his rant. 
As far as the original question goes, I DON'T feel that WWE's done a disservice to JR through not having him on WM 26. Now hold up before you, the WZ nation, jump down my throat for making this choice. Point number 1: Matt Stryker would have been bumped from the 3-man team if JR was there. BAD. Stryker's far more entertaining to listen to than Michael Cole and seems to be shown as young Mike Tenay, not to mention that Stryker is the future of WWE commentating seeing as I see Lawler, Cole, and JR leaving in the next 3-5 years. Point number 2: All right, suppose JR HAD been commentating, even just for the HBK-Taker match. What if he had caught an attack right there in the middle of calling the match? How would WWE have handled that without drawing attention to it or interrupting the match? Is JR's health a risk worth taking just to see him call a match? The way I see it, if a "fan" needs a commentator to help them enjoy a match then there's something seriously wrong. Last time I checked, the fans at the event LIVE don't get to listen to commentary and they show appreciation (or lack thereof) for the in-ring action just the same! Don't get me wrong, I enjoy JR's commentary but I don't believe that commentary is needed to enjoy a truly spectacular match. WWE needs to take notice and increase the quality of their ACTION so that when people like JR are gone that the superstars and Divas can showcase themselves and tell their OWN stories in the ring just like legends such as Harley Race, Gorgeous George, Ric Flair, Karl Gotch, Antonio Inoki, Stan Hansen, and so many others managed to do. Professional wrestling hasn't always had commentators and it can still go on without said commentary. Oh wait, I forgot. WWE is "Sports Entertainment" not "professional wrestling".
However, I'll WWE's been shafting JR for a good long while... JR on SD! instead of on Raw with Lawler while we have to hear "Vintage!" every week? The only things saving that decision are 1) We get to hear Lawler insult Cole (if he so chooses!) and 2) Matt Stryker got a HUGE rub as a commentator from working with the legendary JR and is actually taken seriously now.
As far as the original question goes, I DON'T feel that WWE's done a disservice to JR through not having him on WM 26. Now hold up before you, the WZ nation, jump down my throat for making this choice. Point number 1: Matt Stryker would have been bumped from the 3-man team if JR was there. BAD. Stryker's far more entertaining to listen to than Michael Cole and seems to be shown as young Mike Tenay, not to mention that Stryker is the future of WWE commentating seeing as I see Lawler, Cole, and JR leaving in the next 3-5 years. Point number 2: All right, suppose JR HAD been commentating, even just for the HBK-Taker match. What if he had caught an attack right there in the middle of calling the match? How would WWE have handled that without drawing attention to it or interrupting the match? Is JR's health a risk worth taking just to see him call a match? The way I see it, if a "fan" needs a commentator to help them enjoy a match then there's something seriously wrong. Last time I checked, the fans at the event LIVE don't get to listen to commentary and they show appreciation (or lack thereof) for the in-ring action just the same! Don't get me wrong, I enjoy JR's commentary but I don't believe that commentary is needed to enjoy a truly spectacular match. WWE needs to take notice and increase the quality of their ACTION so that when people like JR are gone that the superstars and Divas can showcase themselves and tell their OWN stories in the ring just like legends such as Harley Race, Gorgeous George, Ric Flair, Karl Gotch, Antonio Inoki, Stan Hansen, and so many others managed to do. Professional wrestling hasn't always had commentators and it can still go on without said commentary. Oh wait, I forgot. WWE is "Sports Entertainment" not "professional wrestling".
However, I'll WWE's been shafting JR for a good long while... JR on SD! instead of on Raw with Lawler while we have to hear "Vintage!" every week? The only things saving that decision are 1) We get to hear Lawler insult Cole (if he so chooses!) and 2) Matt Stryker got a HUGE rub as a commentator from working with the legendary JR and is actually taken seriously now.
I think of announcers as something along the lines of a garnish. A garnish is a substance used as an embellishment or decoration on a prepared food dish or drink item. I won't throw away a perfectly good steak just because the chef forgot to sprinkle on some parsley. However, the overall quality of a product can come down to all the little details, which indicate a professional's attention to their craft.
When an announce team does as poorly as this one did last night, it takes away from the overall quality of the product one way or the other. Its not enough of an impact to make you want to throw the whole product in the trash, but its enough of an impact to be noticeable to everyone with half a brain watching.
When what I'm watching in the ring isnt complimented competently by the announcers, it stands out. It doesnt make me switch focus to the horrible announcing instead of the awesome wrestling, but it does make me feel like the chef kinda just threw the steak on the plate and sent it out instead of taking their time to make it perfect in every capacity, down to the very finest of details.
JR wouldve provided the perfect garnish to the epic match HBK and Taker had. However, when we look back on this match in the history books, the crappy announcing wont be even remotely close to the top of the list of our memories of the match.
HBK vs Taker outshines any announcer, even JR. When a match is that epic, most people dont go apeshit about who's calling the match. But what makes JR better than anyone else right now, is that when there is an epic match like this, he delivers a performance that adds to the match instead of taking away from it. Last night's team took away from the match. Did they take away so much that it ruined the match?? Hell no, but was their poor performance noticeable?? Hell yeah. We are on the brink of the dark ages of wrestling announcing. WWE is probably going to keep JR off TV for good now, Lawler is close to retiring but since he doesnt have any chemistry with the current team, it doesnt matter much. Striker could end up becoming really, really good as long as he stays clear of using guys like Cole as an example for his direction.
This business of WWE being "too concerned" for JR's health to have him call one fucking match is total bullshit. JR was ready to call the whole damn show. They probably just didnt want his face on the cameras because his struggles with Bells Palsy are noticeable. I do think its a great disservice to the years of dedicated professionalism that JR has devoted to the company. If he was going to call one last match, HBK vs Taker v2.0 wouldve been the perfect match.
First I'd like to say I do like the fact that the conversation is getting a good reaction in terms of number of responses but when I brought up the JR issue I also wanted to get your feelings on JR not being brought back at all for a goodbye, whether WWE is right to do this or whether JR deserves one last chance in the spotlight so hopefully I can get your feelings on that
First of all, I'd like to compliment you on your ability to discuss a different viewpoint without throwing insults left and right like a lot of people do in these forums.
Secondly, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Commentators are there to add a bit of "flavor" to the match. AND I also agree that the announcing for the HBK vs. Taker match was pretty bad. But I usually never care too much for the announcing of a wrestling show (unless it's TNA's former announce team, which I think was horrible until Taz came along).
I personally felt that Cole was trying too hard to give the match the "JR Effect," by screaming his lungs out every time a big move happened. And in my opinion, Cole is by no means as good as JR. So I felt like he was definately detracting from the overall experience. But not by much, as the match more than made up for it.
But I still think that bringing JR back isn't a necessity. Is he the best? I think so. But I also think it's time to move on and give a new announce team, like Grisham and Stryker, a shot to be the "new school" JR and Lawler, given enough time of course.
I'm almost sure we haven't seen the last of JR. Only time will tell. He definately should have a nice farewell, and he probably will get it by calling a "dream match" with his long-time broadcast partner, Jerry "The King" Lawler. I agree, it should have been the final match at Wrestlemania 26, but maybe there's something already planned that we don't know about.
I think when the time comes, JR will get his "farewell" in his own way, but I don't think he's totally done yet.
DirtyJosé
Best angle of all: retirement
HBK called JR the best announcer in the world on Raw during his good bye speech. That's pretty big.
WWE needs to develop their announcers. Badly. And they can't do that rushing the spot back to JR. JR is amazing, and he is missed every match he doesn't call, but the fact is that he's had major health problems recently, and they don't appear to be gone for good. It's probably best that JR isn't on the road anymore.
And no one ever said he isn't coming back ever again. I doubt we've heard his last match being called.
WWE needs to develop their announcers. Badly. And they can't do that rushing the spot back to JR. JR is amazing, and he is missed every match he doesn't call, but the fact is that he's had major health problems recently, and they don't appear to be gone for good. It's probably best that JR isn't on the road anymore.
And no one ever said he isn't coming back ever again. I doubt we've heard his last match being called.
JR is one of those guys that you don't realize you'll miss until he's really gone. The only good commentary team of the last year was McMahon and Ventura on Raw.
One of the reasons JR was considered the best, besides being competent, is that he's had good heels to fire off of. One thing that's been annoying me is all announce teams are either neutrals or just pure babyfaces. If they don't change that then WWE commentary will become much more of a detriment to the product than it's ever been. I find it funny that WWE tried to take the focus off their commentary and the way they went about it was making the worst teams ever assembled. And don't get me started on Matt Striker.
Commentary's always been a big part of wrestling. Just look at any big clips and try to insert what the teams would say today and it's awful. Stone Cold stunning everyone in sight and drinking would be met with laughter and "Vintage Austin." HBK, the nickname, would never be seeing as how a commentator came up with it. The Mankind HiaC would have been met with confused shuffling. The best thing WWE could do for JR is simply do some good commentary. Stop yelling at the guys and if they're so bad that they need to be yelled at then fire them and get some new ones. How is that complicated?
One of the reasons JR was considered the best, besides being competent, is that he's had good heels to fire off of. One thing that's been annoying me is all announce teams are either neutrals or just pure babyfaces. If they don't change that then WWE commentary will become much more of a detriment to the product than it's ever been. I find it funny that WWE tried to take the focus off their commentary and the way they went about it was making the worst teams ever assembled. And don't get me started on Matt Striker.
Commentary's always been a big part of wrestling. Just look at any big clips and try to insert what the teams would say today and it's awful. Stone Cold stunning everyone in sight and drinking would be met with laughter and "Vintage Austin." HBK, the nickname, would never be seeing as how a commentator came up with it. The Mankind HiaC would have been met with confused shuffling. The best thing WWE could do for JR is simply do some good commentary. Stop yelling at the guys and if they're so bad that they need to be yelled at then fire them and get some new ones. How is that complicated?
You know it's always sad when time passes people by but it is inevitable, it happens to everyone and will happen to each of us at some point in our careers as well. That being said, I believe that JR's time has come and gone and it's time for him to be replaced permanently. It can be argued whether Cole, or Striker, or Grisham, or whomever is the appropriate replacement, that's another argument for another day. But between age, health, and I think personal choice, JR cannot and should not resume full time announcing duties.
Not popular to say but the quality of his work has been slipping for years. He's more difficult to understand at times, makes more mistakes than ever, and it is time for him to retire and pass the reins on to someone else.
I don't think WWE is doing him a disservice. They put him in the Hall of Fame (the first announced in his year I think although I stand to be corrected on this). They have had him leave (for medical reasons) and return on several occasions already, and have hyped his return every time he's come back. What are they supposed to do, honour him all over again? After all, he's just an announcer.
Personally I would have like him to call the Undertaker/HBK match for old times sake, then he could ride off into the sunset along HBK. But I see no disservice to him whatsoever.
For those of you who watch hockey(TM), Bob Cole had always been Hockey Night in Canada's best announcer, yet last year in the playoffs he lost his spot to Jim Hughson. Same deal; time has past Cole by as well, time for new blood. This is not disrespectful to Mr. Cole, but just reality. Same applies to Jim Ross.
Sure, he was the voice of the WWE. He was their best announcer. Past tense. Along side the youth movement happening in the WWE, it's time for new voices too. The King shouldn't be too far behind in my opinion.
Not popular to say but the quality of his work has been slipping for years. He's more difficult to understand at times, makes more mistakes than ever, and it is time for him to retire and pass the reins on to someone else.
I don't think WWE is doing him a disservice. They put him in the Hall of Fame (the first announced in his year I think although I stand to be corrected on this). They have had him leave (for medical reasons) and return on several occasions already, and have hyped his return every time he's come back. What are they supposed to do, honour him all over again? After all, he's just an announcer.
Personally I would have like him to call the Undertaker/HBK match for old times sake, then he could ride off into the sunset along HBK. But I see no disservice to him whatsoever.
For those of you who watch hockey(TM), Bob Cole had always been Hockey Night in Canada's best announcer, yet last year in the playoffs he lost his spot to Jim Hughson. Same deal; time has past Cole by as well, time for new blood. This is not disrespectful to Mr. Cole, but just reality. Same applies to Jim Ross.
Sure, he was the voice of the WWE. He was their best announcer. Past tense. Along side the youth movement happening in the WWE, it's time for new voices too. The King shouldn't be too far behind in my opinion.
FromTheSouth
You don't want it with me.
I, for one, do not miss JR. He hasn't been good in years. He doesn't know what the moves are called and his passion has waned. He refuses to put the young talent over, and frankly, took away from the broadcast at the end.
Cole, on the other hand, did a commendable job at Wrestlemania. You can say he says vintage too much, but that is my only complaint with him. He puts the young talent over in a huge way, knows the moves, and carries King week in and week out.
I think there should be some mention of JR's retirement. Maybe they could pull him out for a ceremony, but honestly, he is no longer needed. The business has passed him by and it is time for Cole to shine.
Cole, on the other hand, did a commendable job at Wrestlemania. You can say he says vintage too much, but that is my only complaint with him. He puts the young talent over in a huge way, knows the moves, and carries King week in and week out.
I think there should be some mention of JR's retirement. Maybe they could pull him out for a ceremony, but honestly, he is no longer needed. The business has passed him by and it is time for Cole to shine.
Attitude era JR was perfect. He fits that mold perfectly with Lawler. But I personally believe that JR is overrated as a commentator. He has some memorable sayings and I loved the way he'd genuinely get pissed after something controversal would happen or how he'd argue with Lawler. And, yeah, he knows the wrestling business well but I think he's mostly overrated these days. He's basically alittle wrestling knowledge chalked up with a couple dozen overused sayings, and now that all the commentators are more or less neutral, that passion doesn't tend to come through much. That's also what hurt Lawler, who was SUCH an entertaining heel commentator back in the day. Cole is just like a generic, less interesting, robot-like version of JR to me.
I don't mind JR here and there, but I think he belongs mostly in the Attitude Era and I also think Matt Stryker is the #1 commentator today. Even though he's a little condesending to Lawler and Cole at times, he has the most interesting take on things and a wide variety of knowledge and vocabulary to make it interesting for me.
I don't mind JR here and there, but I think he belongs mostly in the Attitude Era and I also think Matt Stryker is the #1 commentator today. Even though he's a little condesending to Lawler and Cole at times, he has the most interesting take on things and a wide variety of knowledge and vocabulary to make it interesting for me.