Is NXT TV Killing Main Roster Debuts?

[Jtrivera]

Back in the day, before the WWE Network, and before NXT was displayed on TV, there was only FCW and OVW developmental, along with ROH as well, those were the three main spots where talent came from, FCW being the last spot before WWE main roster TV.

Before NXT was a TV thing, most of us had no clue who was coming up from development, someone like Orton, Cena, or even Decon Batista could debut, without their gimmick having pre judgement, they were given time to show the character on TV without anyone referencing their past gimmicks (mainly Cena's prototype persona), which gave them a fair chance to sink or swim.

Now in days we have too many "smart fans" who pass judgement on guys who they've seen in NXT that come up to the main roster with a different gimmick (prime example Adam Rose aka Leo Kruger) if NXT TV didnt exsist, fans wouldn't have really known him as Leo Kruger and would have maybe embraced the character of Rose a little better (correct me if he was Rose before NXT TV) I didn't keep up with it before it was on the network,

But another good example is the ascension, they were portrayed in NXT as no nonsense bad guys, without the cheesey Road Warrior face paint, and then they come up to the main roster and are instantly being judged and "falling flat" because the fans know their potential and they wanna see exactly what they saw in NXT.

So I have 2 questions in conclusion, Do you think NXT TV is killing the NXT to Main Roster transition? And do you think that wrestlers should get a gimmick change when they get called up, or stick to what got them called up in the first place?

 

[TheICChampion]

I refer you to an old adage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Guys like The Ascension, Leo Kruger, etc. were doing fine with what they were. But, typical Vince McMahon, he had to go and change it completely to a party-going, Russell Brand-like character. Only now he's finally starting to show some aggression so maybe it's not a total loss. Ascension are still fairly new so there's some time yet. At least Bo Dallas and Rusev came up with what they were doing in NXT. I just hope that Vince steps down and retires soon so Trips can take over. NXT right now is far and away the better product. As far as NXT TV killing the main roster transition, I can't really say for sure. Some people are just impatient and want to see instant success. The WWE main roster is a much different animal and it's harder to get over with a different crowd in a different city every day. It's not a stretch to assume that a lot of NXT guys get house show and dark match tryouts and maybe their gimmicks don't get over the way Vince wants them to so he decides to change it to see what happens. That's likely the reason why.

 

[RusevHits]

The problem isn't that NXT exists as a show, the problem is that creative doesn't know what to do with these guys that HHH gives them on a plate. Meaning they go from being a serious competitor to being a joke, thus losing the crowd.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The problem isn't that NXT exists as a show, the problem is that creative doesn't know what to do with these guys that HHH gives them on a plate. Meaning they go from being a serious competitor to being a joke, thus losing the crowd.

I can't say that I agree with that. In my opinion, it's that Vince either doesn't really know what to do with them and sometimes tinkers with their gimmicks into what HE thinks will work. The primary job of WWE creative is ultimately coming up with ideas that they present to Vince McMahon in the hopes that HE deems them worthy of being used on television. Vince McMahon has a massive ego and any number of reports over the years claim that he's also incredibly stubborn because he believe that he knows what's best and knows better than everyone else. Plus, there's the problem with lackeys like Kevin Dunn and various others that are very much "Vince McMahon Guys" that Vince is known to listen to. They're generally cut from the same cloth as Big Johnny in that they ultimately view things either exactly as Vince does or, if they don't, they don't try to disagree with him very much. I mean....even if they did, how likely is it that Vince would listen to them if he wasn't dead set on a certain course.

 

[SoulTrain4]

NXT ain't shit but smart fans cheering everything and everybody.
Don't get me wrong, NXT is awesome for guys (and gals) like us but the casuals would be bored to tears by the many nonexistent personalities on that show.

I watch every week and the only one that doesn't need too much handling is Balor because of the paint gimmick, maybe Owens will be okay too but the rest are dead in the water and soon as they come up from NXT.

That's the problem. HHH let's them "do their thing" and doesn't anticipate what will work in am arena of thousands over a college gym of a few hundred.
Most of the bigger stars from NXT are over from their Indy days anyway and didn't work at all to be so over.

 

[BillAlfonsos_Whistle]

I find the "NXT is a way better product" argument to be utterly absurd. For a WRESTLING fan who is really into the matches and technical work aspect it is great. I agree NXT gives us more of what we want. Unfettered in-ring work. Good promos with characters trying to define themselves. Well build feuds that seem to matter. Etc Etc.

I think what people fail to realize is that doing it in front of 500 people and doing it in front of 15,000 people are two different ballgames. Only certain technicians who ALSO told great narrative in the ring have succeeded in that.

To get back on topic of the thread...I do think the switches are horrendous business decisions. Why would you package someone one way to a big segment of your fanbase only to neuter them for what worked and what people perceived and liked? The best analogy I can come up with is like if a sports team you root for acquired a player you like in a trade but when he got to his new franchise a lot of his redeeming qualities such as grit, clutchness, etc all dissolved. Of course it's gonna lead to disappointment.

 

[SoulTrain4]

In sports, specifically football (American) a college quarterback gets converted to a wide receiver all the time.
A college wide receiver may get converted to special teams kick off returns when he gets on a pro-team.

Teams change a player's position based on what they need. WWE does the same thing.

 

[Aquaman6686]

This is exactly why NXT should NOT be televised. We shouldn't see anything from a developmental talent until they debut on the MAIN ROSTER. That way there's no pre-conceived notions of who or what this person "should be". All that matters is what they do on the big stage.

 

[bioshock]

Its not different than guys like Steve Austin and Mic Foley, they are prime examples of the past. Austin was already over as being Steve Austin in both WCW and ECW but Vince wanted to give him some other stupid name the Ring Master, with Foley he was already over as Cactus Jack, but instead Vince wanted to give him some stupid name, far dumber than Mankind.

ECW was kind of the minor leagues compared to WWF then, but Vince wanted to completely change wrestlers then, and usually it was a name, he wanted drastic changes. And the same thing happens now with NXT, and the worst part is they are all part of WWE!! Its not like WWE doesn't own the name Leo Kruger or w/e his name was. Unlike back then maybe WCW owned rights to names, but its not the case now so it makes no sense. Guess Vince figures no one watches NXT or WWE Network for that matter.

 

[TheLoneCharles]

Adam Rose fell victim to his new Adam Rose character becoming hugely over because of his entrance. He had epic pops when that gimmick first launched. It wasn't on NXT for long but due to how over it was in a short time Wwe officials made the decision to let the new gimmick debut. It wasn't tried or tested long enough.

Bo Dallas on the other hand was a far different example. Long established his character in NXT and held their title over a year. The guys gimmick flat out worked, gets called up, and seems to be getting increasing reaction from the crowd. His first loss ends up to r-truth, has no real story, and before he got hurt was becoming an afterthought. It was rumored that Vince didn't get the gimmick and hated the character, but it worked with the fans.

There is clearly a disconnect or personal vendetta against NXT, because I don't understand how it's good for business to develop a perfectly good character then rip it apart before even attempting to let it shine as it was (ascensions case). Imagine this, Wyatt family is still together and as a family they go and destroy the undertaker prior to wrestlemania. taker promos insist he will get his revenge and even the odds. Had ascension debut with undertaker to battle entire Wyatt family they are given a storyline and importance.

The storyline and importance makes all the difference. Had the shield made their debut against New Day, no one would care. It's about inserting fresh faces into the picture because no one wants to keep watching the same old characters wrestling for no reason. This is why NXT truly works. Always fresh faces on tv...because while lets say Enzo is funny now, seeing him daily will make us all feel xpac heat towards him.

 

[Dave]

I don't know if it is ruining their debut but it certainly isn't helping them with regards to the fans who are watching NXT every week and fully expecting those talents to be successful when they finally make it to the main roster.

I didn't watch NXT for a long time but now I happen to catch a few episodes along with the PPV events. That said, everyone seemed to be liking The Ascension before they go their big break to the main roster. And now they are getting completely slammed left, right and centre for not fulfilling their potential; which I am told was reliable.

I personally think that NXT is a good thing for the talent down there. They are on TV and have a cult following that a lot of people could only really dream about. I think it also gives the fans a bit more of a connection to the talent and a reason to cheer for them. Everyone knows that when they get called up, they've made it. For me, people want to see that happen; they love an underdog story and that what this is intended to be.

The problem is that there is a disconnect between what Triple H is building and what Vince has already built. And the only people who are going to lose out are the NXT talents and fans. After so long and no real successes from the territory, how long will people continue to watch? They are going to want to see Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, Finn Balor and Adrian Neville to be successful on the main card because that's the image that has been projected for them. Once that fails to happen, I fear that NXT might be seen as a laughing stock in the WWE and that is the last thing that young talents need.

 

[CyberPunk]

NXT is not killing the WWE, WWE is killing WWE. What NXT is doing well is putting on good shows and showcasing the talent well. If WWE can't do that with their roster, whose fault is that?

WWE tries to hard to be too many things, from entertainment to social media to movies to wrestling, and at this time they're failing at all of them. Granted, WWE has to take care of their bottomline, appease their stockholders and cater to casuals, but a business doesn't do well if it can't retain its customers. Why would a casual ever come back to watch a product they don't invest in?

It's not even about NXT. How many casuals do you think watch NXT? All WWE needs is to showcase their talent. Book consistent stories and allow the talent some breathing space. Give them some freedom.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I refer you to an old adage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Guys like The Ascension, Leo Kruger, etc. were doing fine with what they were. But, typical Vince McMahon, he had to go and change it completely to a party-going, Russell Brand-like character. Only now he's finally starting to show some aggression so maybe it's not a total loss. Ascension are still fairly new so there's some time yet. At least Bo Dallas and Rusev came up with what they were doing in NXT. I just hope that Vince steps down and retires soon so Trips can take over. NXT right now is far and away the better product. As far as NXT TV killing the main roster transition, I can't really say for sure. Some people are just impatient and want to see instant success. The WWE main roster is a much different animal and it's harder to get over with a different crowd in a different city every day. It's not a stretch to assume that a lot of NXT guys get house show and dark match tryouts and maybe their gimmicks don't get over the way Vince wants them to so he decides to change it to see what happens. That's likely the reason why.

Crap... utter Crap...

Leo Kruger WASN'T working... it wasn't getting over in the way that they felt was needed, either WWE OR Ray Lepern. The most interesting part of the most recent SHIELD doc was when they were talking about how Rollins was "on the bubble" because of his attitude, that whatever his skill he could have been legit cut cos he wasn't "with the programme". Leo Kruger is the opposite of that, a guy who has done exactly what he was told... for years and it isn't working. They see the talent, they KNOW he has what they want, but it just isn't working. So the guy takes a bit of Bray Wyatt inspiration and creates his own character. Adam Rose WAS a great invention before the main roster... no warning he just showed up with that intro and a squash and the NXT fans wre chanting "This Is Awesome"... where it went wrong was that Vince got a hold of it and didn't see "superstar" but "shill" or "comedy" same as he did with the Sheepherders/Bushwhackers, you know the guys everyone is SO angry are going in the HOF. Why are people so mad? Luke and Butch were also GREAT wrestlers, who at Vince's behest "dumbed down" and stayed employed for years, sold tonnes of merch and made shit loads of cash....even if they never really won a match? Is it what Ray Lepern signed up for or envisaged? No... but if he's making decent money doing so, and today's model is EXACTLY what the Whacker's had... then he can be there for a long time, make money and he is selling merch... he won't win matches or be champ... more guys have to accept that choice and make it... the days of "everyone getting a turn" are gone... just ask Bad News Barrett...


Main roster debuts are not being killed. It's the MAIN ROSTER that's being killed... every day NXT improves and now it's touring, to the point it is it's own "main roster". Crazy as it is I believe one of the Bella's made the quote that summed it up... why would ANY NXT talent WANT to go to the main roster right now other than money? It's like Billy Madison, grabbing Adrian Neville's cheeks and saying "Stay as loooong as you can... you gotta cherish it... you do..."

The reality is WWE has FINALLY, seemingly, cracked the equation of "it's own competition". They could have done it 14 years ago with WCW but they didn't... they tried it 7 years ago with ECW and failed... now they seem to have it about right.

Some guys in NXT NEED to be on the main roster, Tyler Breeze for example, Finn Balor... maybe Neville to a lesser extent... the rest could still have amazing WWE HOF worthy careers and barely set foot on the "main roster". That's how the playing field is now set up... NXT IS WWE... and it's definitely cooler!

 

[toon126]

Problem is the audience in WWE compared to NXT.

NXT fans are there to give everyone a chance. They love the purity of these guys being creative and given the freedom to have stellar matches. WWE fans, not so much. When it comes to the Ascension, I think I agree with an earlier poster who says their weaknesses have been exposed on the main roster - but I think that's an anomaly when it comes to NXT.

On the whole the NXT guys are incredible, the stories, the matches everything about it is brilliant. But then again that's the kind of wrestling show I want to see, and many of the purists at Full Sail enjoy watching. I'm not so sure the casual fan/kids of WWE connect with it as much because it's not built around super hero characters. It's built around work horses who excel with their gimmick and wrestling.

Take Tyler Breeze for example, wonderful gimmick because the guy has immersed himself in the role and plays it brilliantly. I enjoy watching him work, but I genuinely fear for him when on the main roster. I currently can't see the guy getting over with a Raw crowd or taken seriously.

Look at the reaction Kenta, Finn Balor and Kevin Owens got when arriving on NXT. The pops were huuuuuge and a lot of that was based on promos, not everyone has seen them wrestle on the Indy's. But the WWE just can't get their Raw crowds to react like that to new talent. Is it the talents fault? For me no, it is the booking and it is the mistakes of the last decade or so that has caused their fans to be like this.

Sadly I think Triple H can tell us as much as he wants that NXT is the future, but unless he can convey that message effectively to the fans who watch the main shows only, they're always going to be underwhelmed by talent coming up and hold out their best reactions for the returning part-time stars like Rock, Brock, Edge, Taker etc.