Is CM Punk The Most Overrated "IWC Wrestler" Ever?

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

The OP is ******ed. I mentioned in another post how some people talk up shit in order to make a name for themselves on this forum this hogwash that the OP has posted is a prime example of that. People love to talk about the problems with the IWC. Let me tell you one. There are jackasses in the IWC who will always criticize the IWC and try to look smart and end up looking like foamy mouthed ******s.

Basically the OP has made up a lot of stuff in order to drive home his altogether false point. Punk is a very entertaining superstar and the way he has been pushed in the past month as compared to the manner in which he was booked in the past one year has made a lot of fans hopeful about his future. Very few people have mentioned that he is the greatest wrestler of all time or even thar he is the greatest mic worker of all time and those people who have could probably match the OP on a ******ness meter. Tell you what, if you can show me 20 posts made in the past one month which either say that Punk is the greatest wrestler of all time or even the greatest mic worker of all time, I would rep you for a month and change my username to [Your Username]'s bitch. If the OP's statements have even a grain of truth in them then 20 such posts should be easy to find because Punk has generated loads of discussion in the past one month. I doubt if you will, though.

On that same note, the OP is wrong about Punk's mic skills as well. Nobody is comparing Punk to Rock. And Punk got tons of heat in his Straight Edge Messiah character when he ran down the fans for drinking and using drugs. One of the most memorable Smackdown segments of 2009 was Punk coming out dressed as Jeff Hardy. Even face R-Truth, a mediocre performer if there ever is one got a huge reaction when he came down to interrupt one of Punk's promo. That is an example as to how much Punk had worked the fans.

As for memorable matches, the non ******ed normal folk who watch wrestling have not forgotten that Hardy/ Punk was a great feud and their match at Summerslam main evented the PPV over an Orton vs Cena match, two guys who are possibly the two biggest draws of this generation. Memorable matches mostly come in memorable feuds and apart from this feud with Cena that was the only main event level feud that Punk has ever been booked in. He has two great matches in the only two great feuds he has been a part of to go along with several good matches that would have been great had his feud been promoted more. So what's your point?

You have said that you are a fan of Punk. That's not true because I believe that you are not a fan of wrestling in the first place. You are a fan of the WrestleZone Forums, a place that is way more important to you than most people because you are probably a guy living in his mom's basement with no social life eating a slice of pizza that would give anyone else a serious case of cholera. Your understanding of wrestling as well of wrestling fans is pathetic and the forums would be a much better place without the likes of you.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

The OP is ******ed. I mentioned in another post how some people talk up shit in order to make a name for themselves on this forum this hogwash that the OP has posted is a prime example of that. People love to talk about the problems with the IWC. Let me tell you one. There are jackasses in the IWC who will always criticize the IWC and try to look smart and end up looking like foamy mouthed ******s.

Basically the OP has made up a lot of stuff in order to drive home his altogether false point. Punk is a very entertaining superstar and the way he has been pushed in the past month as compared to the manner in which he was booked in the past one year has made a lot of fans hopeful about his future. Very few people have mentioned that he is the greatest wrestler of all time or even thar he is the greatest mic worker of all time and those people who have could probably match the OP on a ******ness meter. Tell you what, if you can show me 20 posts made in the past one month which either say that Punk is the greatest wrestler of all time or even the greatest mic worker of all time, I would rep you for a month and change my username to [Your Username]'s bitch. If the OP's statements have even a grain of truth in them then 20 such posts should be easy to find because Punk has generated loads of discussion in the past one month. I doubt if you will, though.

On that same note, the OP is wrong about Punk's mic skills as well. Nobody is comparing Punk to Rock. And Punk got tons of heat in his Straight Edge Messiah character when he ran down the fans for drinking and using drugs. One of the most memorable Smackdown segments of 2009 was Punk coming out dressed as Jeff Hardy. Even face R-Truth, a mediocre performer if there ever is one got a huge reaction when he came down to interrupt one of Punk's promo. That is an example as to how much Punk had worked the fans.

As for memorable matches, the non ******ed normal folk who watch wrestling have not forgotten that Hardy/ Punk was a great feud and their match at Summerslam main evented the PPV over an Orton vs Cena match, two guys who are possibly the two biggest draws of this generation. Memorable matches mostly come in memorable feuds and apart from this feud with Cena that was the only main event level feud that Punk has ever been booked in. He has two great matches in the only two great feuds he has been a part of to go along with several good matches that would have been great had his feud been promoted more. So what's your point?

You have said that you are a fan of Punk. That's not true because I believe that you are not a fan of wrestling in the first place. You are a fan of the WrestleZone Forums, a place that is way more important to you than most people because you are probably a guy living in his mom's basement with no social life eating a slice of pizza that would give anyone else a serious case of cholera. Your understanding of wrestling as well of wrestling fans is pathetic and the forums would be a much better place without the likes of you.

In all fairness, people are saying that Punk is the next stone cold, the new face of the WWE, and there is a thread entitled "CM Punk, King of the promo". Maybe he exaggerated a bit, but there has been a lot of extra CM Punk pro wreslove going on. I don't think it deserved a flaming like that.

Sure there are people who bitch about the WWE constantly or the millions of Cena threads, there are people who bitch about the IWC (I do, usually directly at posters and divide the IWC into wrestling fans and "bitchers") but now you are spending basically an entire post complaining about a guy who is complaining about the IWC.

We all bitch about stuff. I honestly think it's an outlet for some people. You have a shitty day at work, you watch wrestling, something about it pisses you off, you bitch about it on here. You have a shitty day at work, you watch wrestling, enjoy it, come on here, someone is shitty on it coz the had a shitty day, you bitch about them. You have a shitty day at work, you watch wrestling, enjoy it, come on here, enjoy some things, then someone bitches about it because he had a shitty day when someone else who had a shitty day bitched about something he liked and so you bitch about him.

The circle of bitch I guess.

I think we need to divide the IWC. Much like the WWE universe, it's no longer uniform. Maybe we should label ourselves. Bitcher (someone who hates all wrestling), TNA fan, WWE fan, easy going guy, spot mark, etc.

 

[ZUMBOdriver]

People on this board can call Punk overrated if they choose. There's a bunch of bad opinions on here anyway so they'll fit right in. Also, those who say Punk is still the same character and the "IWC" is just getting into him because of his shoot are wrong. Sure the SES cult leader type gimmick may have been a bit over the top but now Punk is acting more like himself. A guy who doesn't only think he's better but KNOWS he's better than everyone else. CM Punk IS BETTER than John Cena. CM Punk IS BETTER than Randy Orton. I'll paraphrase Jim Cornette by saying a wrestler's character or gimmick works best when that person is acting like themselves with the volume turned all the way up to 10. (or 11 for you Spinal Tap fans) John Cena came out a few weeks ago and said himself that he doesn't really act like the character that's protrayed in the ring. That's why the "IWC" doesn't like Cena...because he is a phony. Punk is not a phony. Punk's status can be just as recognizable as anyone else if given the chance and now he has that chance. If anyone is overrated, its Cena and Orton. While the "IWC" overrates their favorite wrestlers, the marks overrate people like Cena and Orton even worse. They get pushed because chicks think they're hot and kids buy their t shirts. While that may be smart for business, people on this board are wrestling fans, not wrestling businessmen so if people want to see more Punk and less Cena/Orton, I don't think educated wrestling fans should be criticized for it.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

I agree with all your points.

The thing is, WWE has been so stale lately that they realized that turning Punk into "the voice of the people" was exactly what they needed.

Punk's last couple promos since he started to say he was going to leave have been great. No one is denying that. It's not like this hasn't been done before though. To use a recent example, he's doing exactly what Stone Cold did. He's an anti-hero criticizing the boss, and people are eating it up. I admit, I'm eating it up. WWE is finally entertaining again.

However, I do agree that with you about longevity. I think this act, unfortunately, is going to wear thin. Once this feud with Cena, ends, no one will care, since we all know Cena will come out on top and all the attention will be once again focused on him and Punk will be buried.

I mean after Punk feuds with Cena, who is he going to feud with? Orton?

I hope he can keep it up but I'm afraid it won't happen.

As for people treating him like some kind of wrestling God: Look, I like the guy, but he should not be mentioned in the same sentence as Stone Cold, The Rock, Triple H, Flair, etc.

 

[theairforce1]

And Punk got tons of heat in his Straight Edge Messiah character when he ran down the fans for drinking and using drugs. One of the most memorable Smackdown segments of 2009 was Punk coming out dressed as Jeff Hardy..

A great response to this thread, and I completely agree. This storyline with Punk vs Jeff Hardy (straight-edge vs guy involved with drugs, suspensions, etc) was fantastic, and helped Jeff Hardy peak in his career. That storyline garnered huge heat for punk, and some of the loudest pops outside of Cena, Rock, Austin I have ever heard for a superstar. Punk was great on the mic, ripping the fans for being like hardy and cheering for him in turn.

As for memorable matches, the non ******ed normal folk who watch wrestling have not forgotten that Hardy/ Punk was a great feud and their match at Summerslam main evented the PPV over an Orton vs Cena match, two guys who are possibly the two biggest draws of this generation.

Continuing on what I stated above, and furthuring what Myriad wrote, this match was one of the best of the year. Punk dazzled in the TLC match with hardy, as well as the many matches they both had in their storyline. Punk has the ability to wrestle with all kinds of wrestlers and compliment their individual styles while showcasing his own (im not saying he carries them though). So IMO he is one of the best in the ring, and on the mic in wrestling history. The absolute best in either? No, but hes not done yet either. And the IWC, while very interesting at times, if they need to get off the bandwagon of any wrestler, its zack ryder. I mean, really? He's awful (but thats for another thread).

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

People on this board can call Punk overrated if they choose. There's a bunch of bad opinions on here anyway so they'll fit right in. Also, those who say Punk is still the same character and the "IWC" is just getting into him because of his shoot are wrong. Sure the SES cult leader type gimmick may have been a bit over the top but now Punk is acting more like himself. A guy who doesn't only think he's better but KNOWS he's better than everyone else. CM Punk IS BETTER than John Cena. CM Punk IS BETTER than Randy Orton. I'll paraphrase Jim Cornette by saying a wrestler's character or gimmick works best when that person is acting like themselves with the volume turned all the way up to 10. (or 11 for you Spinal Tap fans) John Cena came out a few weeks ago and said himself that he doesn't really act like the character that's protrayed in the ring. That's why the "IWC" doesn't like Cena...because he is a phony. Punk is not a phony. Punk's status can be just as recognizable as anyone else if given the chance and now he has that chance. If anyone is overrated, its Cena and Orton. While the "IWC" overrates their favorite wrestlers, the marks overrate people like Cena and Orton even worse. They get pushed because chicks think they're hot and kids buy their t shirts. While that may be smart for business, people on this board are wrestling fans, not wrestling businessmen so if people want to see more Punk and less Cena/Orton, I don't think educated wrestling fans should be criticized for it.

Cena isn't a phoney, you are a Punk mark and a typical IWC fan. "educated wrestling fans"? You don't sound educated.

The job of a pro wrestler IS to get over, John Cena IS more over than CM Punk, thus, CM Punk IS NOT better than John Cena at doing his job.

You sound like a broken record. Think for yourself for once and stop perpetuating the IWC nonsense. If the "educated wrestling fans" thinks Cena sucks, but Bryan Alvarez and Dave Metlzer, guys who get paid to write about it say he doesn't, and Harley Race, Ric Flair and Terry Funk say he doesn't, guys who are hall of famers, and Samoa Joe says he doesn't, a guy who at one point was legitimately considered a top 5 in the world guy, then I guess the "educated wrestling fans" are pretty fuckin stupid.

Watch the John Cena experience if you think he's a phoney, it's a watch instantly on netflix. He signs like 5,000 autographs in a room where the pics are stacked high to promote mania. He doesn't get a sig stamp because he wants the kids to know he actually signed it. They film the whole thing. You just think he's a phoney because he's a good guy and it's not cool to like good guys.

I guess the "educated wrestling fan" like a match with no "rest holds" a high "workrate" and lots of flips and cool moves too huh? Because that's what makes a good wrestler. I can tell you one thing "rest holds" and "workrate" aren't in any successful pro wrestler's vocabulary. If you think a good pro wrestler is someone who does a bunch of moves and is an athlete, then you're ******ed. Ask Raven, he'll tell you that "to an extent, we're all athletes and we can all do moves". That isn't impressive, what's impressive is getting a reaction. Selling, telling a story in the ring, knowing your audience.

You see, you're not an "educated wrestling fan" you're a tool. You're opinion isn't even that of the general concensus. The general concensus likes and appreciates Cena, even on this board I'd say there are more people who appreciate Cena than have the same opinion as you. In like 2009 Bryan Alvarez said "if you question Cena's ability, you lose credibility" that was in 2009, you're almost 3 years behind dude. Wake up and smell the overness.

As for CM Punk, why do you think he's so over right now? Sure a lot of it has to do with his promos, but he had to have a foil. His foil was John Cena. You want proof? You mentioned John Cena. You couldn't help but mention Cena, because Cena is a HEEL to you. Which is what he wants and it's why him and Punk are perfect foils to each other.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, CM Punk is the indy rock kid who sits outside hot topic and music stores writing lyrics and poems in his leatherbound journal, about how society sucks and how pop music is brainwashing everyone, thinking he's the most artistic person in the world. John Cena is the company man. He does anything for the company and always puts a smile on his face. Cena works WITH the system and works his ass off and is really selfless (character), Punk works AGAINST the system, does what he wants, and is more selfish, pushing his own views.

People who overrate Punk are basically the "indy rock kids". I've said this next part a lot too. The IWC is to pro wrestling as indy rock kids are to music.

 

[ZUMBOdriver]

Listen douche, you do a lot assuming in your post. I'm not a hot topic goth kid or whatever you said. Actually, I'm wearing a thousand dollar suit at work which is a multi-million dollar business as I type this. I like more faces than I like heels. I know about ring psychology and telling a story with a match. So does Punk. I know Punk's worked hard in his many years of wrestling. A lot harder than ****ing yourself out as the "company man" to make every public appearance your boss has to offer and hand signing all the autographs for some trick ass marks. I think Punk's story telling and ring psychology is better than Cena's btw. And another thing douche, I think John Cena's is phony because he said so himself. Cena was created to be a money making machine. CM Punk was created as a wrestler. A wrestler with a complex character that can work in the ring on both a psychological level and a physical level. One thing I'll say you are correct about douche, is Cena being Punk's foil. That was needed, but for Cena just as much as it was for Punk. Cena's work has been stale. Cena and Punk have needed to work with each other for a long time. They are such opposites, that they complement each other in this feud very nicely. You can say Cena is over all you want, and you're right...he is over. Still doesn't change the fact he is a phony character with average skills across the board. And heres the thing douche, I do question Cena's ability. But I have no cred to lose, everybody on this board has no cred to lose, except for you douche since you know it all and are a mind reader. No doubt Cena's grown into his main event role but anyone would grow into that role after being forced into it for 5 straight years.

 

[JGlass]

CM Punk certainly is on one hell or a tear right now, and in truth, he deserves much of the praise that the IWC has been giving him, but he deserve all the praise he has been receiving?

Is CM Punk as hot as the IWC says he is right now?- Oh hell yes. Since cutting his first "shoot" promo, CM Punk's stock has been shooting up with not just IWC fans, but with fans in general. In the weeks prior to his match with John Cena it seemed as though very few audiences weren't taken by Punk's antics. Since that first promo he has dominated the reactions in most of the arenas he has been to, put on one of the greatest matches in WWE history, and he's become a WWE Champion by scoring a victory over John Cena.

Is CM Punk the hottest guy in the WWE right now?- Once again, this is a definite yes. While John Cena will always be wildly over with audiences anywhere he goes and Orton seems to be streaking by adding a mentally unbalanced element to his character, CM Punk has become the most talked about guy in the WWE. He's on talk shows, he's in more mainstream media than most WWE stars ever get to, he's on fire both in and out of the WWE.

Is CM Punk the most popular guy in the WWE?- This is where we start seeing the no's. NO, CM Punk is not the most popular guy in the WWE, and he likely never will be. John Cena still holds that title, and this shows based on the reactions you've heard the past couple weeks where Cena has managed to out pop Punk. Whether you like it or not, Cena has the majority of the crowd on his side. Orton is also more popular than Punk, and this feud with Christian has only seemed to make him more popular.

Is CM Punk the best wrestler in the WWE/World?- Undoubtedly no, he is not. John Cena is the best wrestler in the company, and likely the world. He gets fans to react to him no matter what, he has put over just about every guy in the WWE main event scene (including Punk) as well as a handful of the midcarders, and he's the best mic man in the industry. He might not have the technically sound style that the IWC loves out of their wrestlers and the style that Punk utilizes in the ring, but that doesn't matter, Cena still puts on better matches consistently with his move set than Punk does with his. Orton is a better wrestler than Punk as well, as is AJ Styles. There may or may not be a handful of others that are better than Punk as well, and I'd argue that there are quite a few.

So, that leaves the one question that matters most in this particular thread...


Is CM Punk the most overrated IWC wrestler ever?

The IWC overrated just about anyone they hook their wagon to. Jericho, as great as he is, is overrated by the IWC. Daniel Bryan, as great as he is, is overrated by the IWC. Punk, as terrific as he's been, is overrated by the IWC. However, there are two guys that are much more overrated by the IWC than anyone else... and they are Shelton Benjamin and Ken Anderson.

Shelton Benjamin had a great background and solid ability, but he never seemed to be concerned with wowing audiences and pushing himself into the next level. Crumby mic man, never all that impressive in the ring, and apart from a few flashes of brilliance he looked like he just came to earn his pay check.

Ken Anderson looked like a million bucks when he had the WWE machine giving him a cool gimmick, promo material, and matches with guys who knew what it takes to put someone over. However, he couldn't seem to keep up with his peers and kept getting hurt, forcing the WWE to cut him. Fast forward to his career in TNA, and now he's being exposed for the crappy performer he really is. Bad in the ring, bad on the mic, character has been blown to shit.. he's just awful.

So while Punk is certainly great, he is a tad overrated, but not nearly as much as some of the IWC's past favorites.

 

[Cold-Flame]

Points and points everywhere. Some valid, some just pulled out of the ass. Lets see.

Is CM Punk overrated? Kind of. He is one of the best straight-out wrestlers in the WWE. I don't mean full package, I mean in that ring. Like Samoa Joe and DBD are great in the ring. Could we be overrating his in-ring skills? Possibly. Does that mean we're rating them too much higher than what they are? Not likely. Hell, his match with John Cena at MITB was rated 5 stars by David Meltzer, and some of you want to say he isn't anything spectacular in the ring? Granted, he takes the angle, promos, etc. into account for the rating too, but that was one hell of a match, no freaking doubt. The match did what it was supposed to, it told a story. You had the face of the WWE trying to keep the pride of the WWE around while you had the renegade, trying to solidify himself and prove that he was indeed the best. Whether or not you were a Cena mark or Punk mark, you're into the story thinking: "Is Punk going to do it? Is Cena going to keep his job and the title or is Punk going to pull it off?" Even the logical options suggested against Punk leaving Chigaco with the title. Just how Vince said the stipulation, the thoughts automatically went to if Punk wins, MITB is getting cashed in. They even trolled us with that. Though back to the match, it told the story. You have Punk, kicking out of two FU's, determined to prove he was the best. You have him fighting out of the STF twice. Then he finally manages to hit the G.T.S.(albeit botched)......and Cena falls out of the ring. You just know how it's going to go, that Punk will roll Cena in the ring and then as he climbs in, Cena will hit something to end the match. It's happened so many times before, right? Cue Vincent Kennedy McMahon and John Lauranitis coming out. You know why they're here. Punk hasn't re-signed and Vince wants to make sure that the title stays in. So as Punk gets in, he gets locked in the STF once more and Vince goes Screwjob. He's calling for the bell, he sends John down to screw Punk and Cena stops them. Jaw drops, Cena just clocked the Head of Talent Relations. He yells at his boss, runs in the ring, and it's nap-time for Cena once more. Jaw drops again and Punk does it. He beats Cena, not only meaning he's leaving with the title, he beat John Cena clean. Vince is pissed, he yells for them to get Alberto out there. Everyone knows it's coming, Punk isn't leaving with the title. No chance in hell.....yet he does. Del Rio gets kicked and Punk leaves through the crowd. He runs through his hometown crowd and poses atop the stairs with the WWE Championship as the crowd is in a frantic craze. The story of the face vs the renegade was told perfectly and that's what wrestlers need to do in the ring. Tell a story.(Do not say that Punk carried Cena during that match either.)

Lets move on to his character. His character hadn't changed for so long. Before his base was he was Straightedge, he was better than all of the people taking drugs and drinking themselves into a coma, etc. Though lets face it, the SES and Nexus were just utter crap for Punk. He is not a stable person, nor do I ever think he will be. Then lets move on to where he was singles and the Straighedge character shined with Jeff. Jeff Nero Hardy. The daredevil, the enigma, a shining star. Then when Punk cashed in MITB on Hardy, started an absolute great feud. Punk's promos meshed quite well with Hardy's. Hardy is the daredevil, telling people to live life to the fullest, Punk is the straightedge savior, trying to "control" the people into doing the right things in his mind instead of the things they want to do. Then fast forward to Summerslam where they put on a great TLC match. Not just because it was Hardy's specialty match, but because(and this is going back to his in-ring skill) Punk was able to make it shine as well. Punk never carries matches, but he helps people shine. His matches with Mysterio were great. His match at WM this past year with Orton was great. Fast forward to the build up of MITB. Punk's character had been changing ever since he got sent to RAW. No more was he the SES cult like leader, now he was sick of the hypocritical actions of the company, ex. John Cena post-TLC match. Introduce the Nexus which causes a downward spiral for Punk. Now move on to the Nexus meaning less and less around Capitol Punishment. Mason Ryan is injured, Otunga and Hennig mean nothing, it's just Punk. He has a great match with Mysterio at the event, for sure one of the top three of the night. Move on to him becoming the #1 Contender and the 2nd RAW after Capitol Punishment. Punk had always been loved by the IWC for his mic work, for his in-ring skills, but then lets fast forward to the one moment that started this. The shoot. "He mentioned Brock Lesnar! He called out Colt Cabana! He mentioned ROH and NJPW! The 4th wall!" etc. Those were the reactions of myself and quite a few other people. This is what turned all the attention from people that weren't behind Punk to him and boosted the attention from the people already behind him. Then the microphone cuts off as he tries his story and we learn he is "suspended." Now we have Punk as the renegade(and not the crappy John Cena one they've tried before, ex. The Nexus angle), the man who won't abide by the rules lain down for him, etc. This is the Punk that everyone wanted to truly see, because now his character is a renegade who is addressing things we want to hear.

Move on to his microphone skills. Comparing him to The Rock is truly pathetic. No one is reaching that level, as well as they also do different things. The Rock is spouting out his vintage catch phrases, lighting up arenas night in and night out. Punk, he is saying what we want to hear. He isn't tiptoeing around the PG barrier or acting inside the 4th wall, he's saying what he thinks. He's being the renegade, the voice of the voiceless, the one member that they cannot control. Now, whenever Punk grabs a mic, it is a pipe bomb. The Rock's microphone was a match, lighting a fire, causing an explosion of the crowd. Punk isn't trying to cause a reaction, he's the reaction. Is Punk the best ever on the mic? No. Have we ever said he is the best ever? NO. He is the best in the WWE today. John Cena is more over with the crowd than Punk, no doubt. Though compare the promos. Cena does the same-old cookie cutter PG stuff. That's what he's known for just like his normal combination during matches. Now Punk is doing new stuff. No one ever expected something like this to happen and now it has. This is what we wanted to hear. John Cena promos, we've heard before. His crappy jokes, his same goofy actions, and though that is what is hated, that part of his character, that is what signals to the larger fanbase of the WWE. Punk's appeal is to the smaller parts of the fanbase. It's varying, both are over, but it depends on where they're over.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Listen douche, you do a lot assuming in your post. I'm not a hot topic goth kid or whatever you said. Actually, I'm wearing a thousand dollar suit at work which is a multi-million dollar business as I type this. I like more faces than I like heels. I know about ring psychology and telling a story with a match. So does Punk. I know Punk's worked hard in his many years of wrestling. A lot harder than ****ing yourself out as the "company man" to make every public appearance your boss has to offer and hand signing all the autographs for some trick ass marks. I think Punk's story telling and ring psychology is better than Cena's btw. And another thing douche, I think John Cena's is phony because he said so himself. Cena was created to be a money making machine. CM Punk was created as a wrestler. A wrestler with a complex character that can work in the ring on both a psychological level and a physical level. One thing I'll say you are correct about douche, is Cena being Punk's foil. That was needed, but for Cena just as much as it was for Punk. Cena's work has been stale. Cena and Punk have needed to work with each other for a long time. They are such opposites, that they complement each other in this feud very nicely. You can say Cena is over all you want, and you're right...he is over. Still doesn't change the fact he is a phony character with average skills across the board. And heres the thing douche, I do question Cena's ability. But I have no cred to lose, everybody on this board has no cred to lose, except for you douche since you know it all and are a mind reader. No doubt Cena's grown into his main event role but anyone would grow into that role after being forced into it for 5 straight years.

Yea I don't believe you, even so, who cares, Punk is just like a hot topic kid.

"he is over, average skills across the board" this is where you are stupid. If you worked for a multi-million dollar company (McDonalds? Wal Mart?) you'd realize that pro wrestling is a business. These guys are assets, Cena does his job the best. You think playing a DIFFERENT character other than your straight up real persona and making a ton of appearances and always putting on a happy face and always putting the company first is easier than ....being yourself and talking about your own views?

As someone who is currently an economics minor and on an excelerated masters program at a school with a top 10% undergrad business program in the country (Missouri State University), your views on business are awful. Punk isn't all that special. He's simply a contrarian. He follows trends just like everyone else. His trend is "do the opposite" which is still the trend. Everyone in high school gets beer tatoos, he gets a pepsi tatoo. Does it make him more artsy? Not really, only a fool thinks that. He's still following a trend and a culture, that being, counter culture. It's a fad, just like being the cool brooding anti hero is a fad. In fact, in today's day and age, across entertainment, Cena's character is more unusual than Punks. People are acting like Punk is some sort of amazing, groundbreaking character. Hmm, he causes chaos to fit his own needs and comes across as an articulate anarchist. Hmm, kinda like Joker, Jack Sparrow, and a ton of guys on TV shows that blend the line between good guy and bad guy and question authority.

Cena is the all american good guy. You don't hardly ever see it on TV anymore. Punk isn't the unique character here, he's just as trendy as Cena. People who think Punk is this amazingly unique character overrate him.

How the FUCK does anyone think Punk beat Cena clean at MITB? Cena had Punk beat, was distracted, then was distracted getting back into the ring when he was hit with GTS. That's not clean at all. Interference, losing a winning position, caught off guard by people on the outside, in what universe is that clean? I guess if a fan shines a laser light into a hitters' eye an he strikes out then that is clean and sporty too huh?

 

[rge2010]

Yes CM Punk is extremely overrated by the ROH marks on here. Punk is an internet darling so it seems.

He's decent in the ring, can put a good promo but he isnt great at promos. The one a few weeks ago was just so over rated. It pushed boundaries and spoke the truth but the delivery wasnt fantastic.

Colt Cabana is another idiot over rated. He's a comedy fool like Santino. No wonder he failed as Scotty Goldman.

 

[The Future Rises]

Yes CM Punk is extremely overrated by the ROH marks on here. Punk is an internet darling so it seems.

He's decent in the ring, can put a good promo but he isnt great at promos. The one a few weeks ago was just so over rated. It pushed boundaries and spoke the truth but the delivery wasnt fantastic.

Punk? Decent in the ring?! You're kidding right?

CM Punk is by far the best all around technical wrestler in the WWE right now. I'm not an ROH mark. And I never watched Punk's work there. But so what? He has been so entertaining and putting on so many high quality matches as of late. The IWC treat him like the best in the company because he is the best in the company. There's nothing overrated about that.

Colt Cabana is another idiot over rated. He's a comedy fool like Santino. No wonder he failed as Scotty Goldman.

I don't mind seeing Colt Cabana being dissed. But you're saying Punk's an idiot now? His promos are the greatest things to have ever touch Monday Night Raw in a long time. And they weren't scripted. He's not an idiot he's a genius who knows how to work the mic like a pro.

 

[ABMorales787]

"Is CM Punk The Most Overrated IWC wrestler ever?" What in the rowdy blue fucking hell does that even mean? The guy is good and in surrounded by a mediocre roster. Easy as that. The same reason the likes of John Cena, Randy Orton and Christian stand out while everyone else toils in midcard limbo. You can't overrate what isn't being rated. The guy is popular among his fanbase. It's obviously a sign that he is doing his job right. Now forgive me while I go scratch my head wondering what an "IWC wrestler" is supposed to be.

 

[ZUMBOdriver]

Cena is the all american good guy. You don't hardly ever see it on TV anymore. Punk isn't the unique character here, he's just as trendy as Cena. People who think Punk is this amazingly unique character overrate him.

Yeah you never see that on TV anymore except for all the Captain America and other super hero movie commercials that have been running all over TV this summer. And, I swear I saw a Greatest American Hero rerun on SyFy not too long ago. Also, I never said Punk was a unique character. I called him complex. I figured a bright college student such as yourself would be able to distinguish between the two. Now that you mention it though, Punk is a unique character in the WWE landscape. I'm not talking about the kids around campus, but WWE employees. I can't really think of anyone like him off the top of my head. That brings Punk's "rating" up in my eyes.

If you worked for a multi-million dollar company (McDonalds? Wal Mart?) you'd realize that pro wrestling is a business.

I do realize that pro wrestling is a business, but also do not care about the business aspect of wrestling. I leave that to the people who get paid to care about that. I watch wrestling because I LOVE IT, not to analyze their financial statements. But while we're talking business, here's my two cents. I think its bad business to neglect a part of a market that has disposable income (Business Term!) to spend on a business's product. At least I have DI. There is obviously a contingent that is tired of the same old main eventers and giving us an alternative, such as Punk, to the same old is good business. But don't worry, there's still plenty of room for Cena, and the rest of the members of Cenation as well. Let's make everyone happy. Punk's "rating" has seemed to go up in the WWE's vision, so doesn't that actually give some credibility to the internet fans who have been "overrating" Punk? And btw, I work for a chain of funeral homes since you felt the need to call me out. I'm the real life Undertaker.

Apologies for the double post but I forgot this point and I took too long to edit my last post. Once again, sorry if this is a big no no.

You think playing a DIFFERENT character other than your straight up real persona and making a ton of appearances and always putting on a happy face and always putting the company first is easier than ....being yourself and talking about your own views?

Ok, let me clear the air here because I admit, I'm coming off as a hater and maybe I am. Not for me to judge. There is no doubt that Cena is a hard worker too. I would be wrong if I said otherwise. But when I talk about Punk's hard work, I'm talking about things like wrestling for gas money. I'm talking about things like being able to rise above the BS and become a main eventer even though Vince McMahon and the boys didn't "get" Punk when he first was hired. Punk knew he had what it takes. His fans knew he had what it takes. He kept putting in the hard work until he made it so apparent, that WWE's brass could no longer deny that CM Punk had what it takes. And here we are today, Punk is a WWE main eventer. Now, I swear I won't be that guy who bitches about Punk losing the title to Cena whenever that may be. (Probably Summerslam) The timing of all of this isn't the greatest for Punk as far as being WWE Champ goes, as I realize that WWE has a BIG MONEY match to promote between Cena and The Rock at WM28, so WWE has to make Cena the undisputed champ. That still does not mean CM Punk's hard has not paid off. Rumors have him feuding with HHH. This is exciting.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

I do think Punk is overrated as well. I look at it in three different ways tbh:

- I think it is flat out favoritism for the most part. Just like a majority of people who hate John Cena to high heavens think he sucks ass or at least never give him credit; a majority of those pegging Punk like we all should bow down like we are in a cult are the ones calling him the bestest best thing ever. Hey. as the biggest Wade Barrett fan here, I know how bias works.

- Punk reminds me a lot of The Miz. There's just something about the guy that when he isn't booked to be kind of a big deal on the show, there's not much to write home about unless you really like the guy. Granted a lot of people are like that, but a lot of times it just felt like "just another promo/match" if there's no real defined booking for the guy. It may seem like I think this is a bad thing.. Well, I don't. However, people don't want to accept that he isn't supposed to be the anything other than John Cena food; like every other heel on the roster hopes to be one day. Another trait I think the two butthurt guys share is that it seems like the only matches that get any real discussion are the ones with "big names." I find this interesting.

- Finally, I just think is a major case of 'bandwagoners.' I am sure there are legions of angry and anti-social teenagers who think Punk is a gawd. But for the part, I think a little loopy that a lot of people talk about how good his work is as oppose to actually talking about the work itself. What makes his matches better? Why are his promos so good? I liken this perspective to how a lot of people dub Final Fantasy VII the greatest game ever, but few have the nerve to explain why. Imagine that.

 

[mikde_]

i wondered how long it would be till people started turning on him. It seems like people think the 'cool' thing to do is to bash whatever is popular.

Sure punk is overated but that by no means at all means he is bad. He is great. Not the best wrestler in wwe, id give that honour to Daniel Bryan but Punk has done something that nobody has done this millenium and that is make wrestling relevent again. For that reason alone he deserves all the credit he gets.

Sure people are going to call him the greatest ever and the best in the world because right now he is the hottest commodity in wrestling, people are obviously going to jump on the bandwagon. Its been happening for many years and wont ever change, but to take offence from that or to even take it serious is just dumb because just like the seasons every year, opinions will change and people will move on. Sure its annoying to see thread after thread about punk but what can you expect when he is the hottest commodity.

But yeah Im guessing the majority of people that dislike punk dont actually dislike him, however they dislike that he has a following and everyone these days wants to seem independent so liking someone with a wide fan base is a big no no for them.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Punk is red hot at the moment and time will tell whether this will lead to Punk being a major player like Orton, Cena, Jericho, etc. or if he will fade into obscurity. Orton and Cena are on top right now as the most popular wrestlers in the WWE, but Punk is steadily nipping at their heels. I think most of the IWC adulation is warranted except of course members going overboard on how he is the greatest wrestler ever etc. etc.

I really don't think anyone to claim Punk to be the most overrated IWC wrestler ever when we have threads daily about how awesome Zack Ryder is. Shelton Benjamin, Mr. Anderson, Christian, Daniel Bryan, Drew McIntyre, and Matt and Jeff Hardy have been given more praise by the IWC then Punk. My pick would go to Matt Hardy as being the most overrated ever. Jeff Hardy is a close second tied with RVD.

Matt has never done anything but complain about being misused in WWE and TNA. Jeff Hardy's claim to fame is being constantly loaded and doing a Senton bomb off of ladders through tables. RVD thinks he is major star wherever he goes. RVD and Jeff Hardy were given the brass ring and crapped on it as soon as they touched it. At least Punk is smart where he can vent his frustrations and get paid/pushed for it instead of fired.

 

[Profit]

All we have been seeing on Forums this past month is CM Punk=God of Wrestling.

Is that a fact?

If you meant that we have seen a ton of threads dedicated to Punk, and a lot of talk about what he has been doing lately, then thats one thing. But, I don't think a large number of people are saying that hes a "God of Wrestling", as you put it. Though we'll get to that a little later...

As far as the threads, the talk about him, etc. etc. Well, what did you expect to have happen? It's one of the hottest storylines not only in the WWE but in wrestling, period. Of course this sort of thing is going to generate both discussion as well as praise for something so refreshing, which isn't a word us wrestling fans have been able to use in quite some time.

In the words of the Miz, "Really?...REALLY!??"

Oh god, talk about something that gets WAY overused on these forums

I have been loving CM Punk this past month but you have got to be out of your mind to even consider him as one of the best talkers and wrestlers ever.

And who exactly is saying that he's the best wrestling and/or talker ever?

I think a lot of people, me included, find him to be the top one or two in both categories TODAY, not EVER. If you want to argue that point with me, go ahead and show me who would top him as a better wrestler and a better talker. Right now, i'd put him atop my list as a talker. And thats not just because of what he's been doing lately, he's always been very talented in that department. As far as wrestler goes, he's right at the top of the list, probably not number one but a damn close second.

For the past month the IWC has been on a craze about how Punk is a god of wrestling,

Again I haven't seen the "IWC" declaring him a god.

Wait, I take that back. Remember when I said we'd get back to this earlier in my post? Well, lets clear this up. Him being a "god" i've seen in a few places, here and there. Not EVERYWHERE, mind you, but some people have said it. What you have to understand is that most of these people don't actually believe he is the best ever, the greatest thing the wrestling world has ever seen, it's just an expression to use for how much we all enjoy what he's doing, and how hot this storyline is.

the best pure wrestler ever,

Again, maybe not the best in the company but right there in the top.

best on the mic,

Again, in my honest opinion he is the best on the mic in the WWE right now.

you name it the IWC has said it about punk.

Up to, and including, that he is overrated. Yup.

Has he been great this past month..Absolutely.Is he the most exciting talker on Raw right now..Definitely.

And this proves my point right here.

You for some reason want to make it out like the entire IWC is putting Punk on the mount rushmore of WWE greats, but we are not doing such a thing. We are all living in the moment, and a great moment it is.

..Is he one of the Best .talkers or Wrestlers of all time..Not even close.

I agree he's not the best of all time, but he can def. work his way up the ladder in time if he keeps growing.

Lets Start out with his Mic Skills:

Sounds good.

While there are probably 100 better talkers than punk all time(literally, I can name 20 off the top of my head Flair, Austin, Piper, etc),

100? I think thats a little high, I def. think he's in the top 100.

If you have Cena on that list, and not Punk, you lose all credit.

I am going to compare him to my personal favorite, The Rock. Everytime the Rock got on the mic the whole arena would hang on to his every word. There would be a HUGE reaction (cheering, screaming, booing, laughing) every time he touched the mic, whether it was heel or face. The Rock did not have a run like that for a month, but instead had it for his entire career. Not only did he have this his entire career, he had great segments and brought out the best in everyone even in guys like Kane who aren't supposed to really even talk or be funny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UKOmobMaDo).

Thats not a good comparison as no one can match The Rock, even nowadays. The landscape of wrestling has changed, the reactions and the popularity for the sport isn't what it used to be. It's just not a fair comparison, though Rock is obviously far ahead of Punk on the stick.

Think back before Punk had his big promo. He never got a reaction like he is getting now. When he had his "Jesus" character, the mainstream audience could not care less about what he had to say. Now that he's had his promo, the IWC would gladly jerk off to his every word and claim he's always been the greatest talker ever blah blah blah.

He was never getting a reaction? Really? I must be insane, as I heard reactions to him during that time. Hell, ever since he turned heel way back he's been able to garner reaction from the crowd. Do you recall his feud with Jeff Hardy? He got a good amount of heat from that, and his promo's were pretty stellar, a personal fav. of mine was him dressing as Jeff and fooling the crowd for a bit before ripping into them.

His current act could get stale fast if every week he comes out whining. I really like it for now, but don't say you're surprised if this dies out in a few months.

I agree with that statement, to a point.

I don't think they will continue to have his promo's be in a whining manner, it'll be kind of an Austin thing, at least thats where it seems to be going. Austin was the rebel, always went against the suits, and thats what it seems Punk is doing. Austin's schtick didn't get old, and I don't think Punk's will either.

As far as his wrestling goes he has never been anything more than a really good midcard.

Wow, now you've lost all credibility with me for that.

I don't know what you've been watching, but he's been consistently one of the better guys in the ring.

I can't be bothered to go on, it's late and this is boring me now.

 

[BloodworkKP]

CM Punk...Overrated by the IWC community...No I think he earned every bit of the respect and admiration that the IWC gives him because of the promos that the man can cut, the matches that he has/will have that is what gets him the respect that the IWC gives him

 

[H33LTurn]

CM Punk...Overrated by the IWC community...No I think he earned every bit of the respect and admiration that the IWC gives him because of the promos that the man can cut, the matches that he has/will have that is what gets him the respect that the IWC gives him

Respect is one thing, something that I'm more than happy to give him. The problem lies in what another user had pointed out, people are actually buying the whole "Best in the World" gimmick. If you actually look at CM Punk, who has only done one memorable thing and thats cut one good promo last month, and think hes the best wrestler to ever step into the ring simply because he claims to be then you need to go buy a Cena shirt and a couple of front row RAW tickets and sit on your daddys shoulder when you get there because you're a mark. I know its hard for some people here to understand but you're marking out, you definitely are. You have a Punk sig and a Punk avatar and your name has a Punk reference in it somewhere, yeah, you're marking for him hard. Not only are you doing that but you're shitting on all the other great superstars of the past. You're saying that because he cut a good promo and had two good matches hes suddenly bigger than Hogan? Cena? Rock? Oh yeah he is better than The Rock, because as soon as Punk bitched and moaned about him being in WM28 The Rock went from the greatest guy to ever return to the WWE to a selfish bastard even though he's taking absolutely no money from his appearance and is doing it all for the fans.

The words on the back of CM Punk's t shirt dont supersede wrestling history. I'm enjoying the Punk story, I've enjoyed what hes done so far, but I think his fans need to lay off the marking and put things into perspective for the sake of everyone whos seen something better than Punk, which most of us have unless you started watching wrestling last July.

 

[Maddog Lionheart]

I agree and disagree with you. Let me tell why.

Agree: Yes, Punk mic skills has never been highlighted like this ever. During his S.E.S and even through New Nexus movement, he just seemed like a demigod or something. Not really considered "The Best In The World." Jump to two months ago and he does one shoot, one randomn shoot and everyone is on his dick. Everyone. Now has his mic skills shown now, yes but it's not like they have been there from the very beginning.

Disagree: His wrestling skills has been there from the very beginning. Ever since his debut against Justin Credible, he's had the gift of the mat. He knoes what he's doing and he's probably in the top 10 of best true wrestlers of today's era.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Here's how you guys sound "I'm going to say yes/no, his mic ability is an X/10 and his in ring ability is an X/10"

Neither of those matter. He IS overrated by the IWC. They think he's the greatest at his job on the planet when he's not even the most over guy on the roster. Thus, they're overrating him. Simple as that. Objective, simple, truth. Now someone can quote me and throw in their OPINIONS as much as they want. Do I enjoy Punk? Yea, he entertains me personally more than anyone else on the roster, but he's not the most over, so he's not the best at his job. Pretty simple.

 

[BillAlfonso]

He is but, all wrestlers are overrated because we all like different things. I go for more of an old school approach of talk then match. The Rock was great at that as was most of the wrestlers from then and before his time. CM Punk was good at it as well in the stuff I've managed to see from him pre-WWE especially against Raven. The problem with Punk is that, as a lot of people have said, he just keeps "shooting" and it's over, that much is true and most important, but it won't be for long. Hell, Austin was shooting for a bit in ECW and a little in his Austin 3:16 speech but he soon developed a character off of it. The Rock shot a little bit in his "I'll never forget Die Rocky Die" promo after joining the Corporation and he further developed a character off of it. The turning point is going to come when we finally see what Punk does after the shooting's stops.

Think about the contract signing and how the other players in the scene interacted with him. HHH looked at and spoke to him as if his was a teenager throwing a hissy fit and Cena acted as if Punk really wasn't anything to worry about. Punk also has to mind the backlash from his blatant disrespect of The Rock and how he tries to use his given name like it's a derogatory term because I can pretty much guarantee that, if they ever step into the ring together, Punk would be nothing more than The Rock's opponent at this time. I know that The Rock has become the devil to most of the IWC but the man is still a legend in the business and put in a lot of work to keep the company afloat and finally defeat WCW especially whenever Austin would "take his ball and go home." The old timers and higher ups will still see shit like that, there's a reason that The Undertaker didn't like Punk.

 

[RD_21]

First why did someone felt the need to necro this thread...

2 you are asking a group (IWC) if Punk is overrated by the group (IWC) while he is the hottest thing to come out of the wrestling world for months, see years.

We get it you don't like Punk that much or don't understand why everyone is so high on him.

To me Punk as always been the thing that makes me follow WWE when it's so dark and I think he is one of the best talker and I find it hard to believe that you genuinly think that 100 persons are better talker than him but that's what opinions are for.

Whether people started to love Punk or not, I couldn't care less. When he debuted he made me watch WWECW as it was the hottest feud in WWE at that time. After that I was watching Smackdown! for the SES and his feuds with Hardy, Taker and Mysterio even if I didn't like how he was booked all the time he was the best on the mic during that period and it's not even funny. Why I like Punk that much is because he is straight edge and while he should be a role model for your kids, people are booing him and he use that to get heat in a way that not a lot of people were able to do.

In ring he is really great and always been. But in the end that's only my opinion. As far as wrestlers he comes behind the Angle, Benoit, DB, Hart, Jericho and HBK. And as far as an entertainer or superstar he comes behind The Rock, Austin, Hogan, HHH and some others but he is not very far.

Maybe some idiots see him as God but for the love of God please stop trying to pretend that the IWC is one person it's getting beyond dumb. If 10 vocal idiots think and say something it doesn't mean that the 90 others are (yeah I know I used the stupid 10% example that I find dumb).

What I mean is that the IWC don't overrate Punk but appreciate him for what he is, the hottest thing in the wrestling world in the last years.

Here's how you guys sound "I'm going to say yes/no, his mic ability is an X/10 and his in ring ability is an X/10"

Neither of those matter. He IS overrated by the IWC. They think he's the greatest at his job on the planet when he's not even the most over guy on the roster. Thus, they're overrating him. Simple as that. Objective, simple, truth. Now someone can quote me and throw in their OPINIONS as much as they want. Do I enjoy Punk? Yea, he entertains me personally more than anyone else on the roster, but he's not the most over, so he's not the best at his job. Pretty simple.

Just because I like to throw you curveball from time to time. The Wii is the best selling console this generation, best brand recognition and all because a lot of casual players decided to see what the fuzz was all about. They bought the console, played Wii Sports, never bought any other game and now it's collecting dust in their closet or living room.

Talk to any serious gamers and they will tell you that if you want, serious and mature game that are big connected experience you should get a PS3 or an xbox 360.

Are the serious gamers who know their craft, know about hardwares, games and are passionate about gaming overrating those consoles or are they just seeing the truth while other people believe the lie/hype?

Disclaimer: Please don't jump to the Punk is less over than Cena but he is better and vice versa. I am just bringing a devil's advocate opinion and stating that being the most over on the roster doesn't mean you are the best automatically, especially in a job field where your boss has a large hand in deciding who's getting over and who isn't.