Int Region, Third Round, Ladder Match: (2) Randy Savage vs. (7) Rey Mysterio

[klunderbunker]

This is a third round match in the International Region. It will be a ladder match. It will be held at the Tokyo Dome in Tokyo, Japan.

Rules: There will be a briefcase hanging above the ring. The first person to use a ladder to climb and take down the briefcase with his feet touching the mat wins.

#2. Randy Savage

Vs.

#7. Rey Mysterio

​

This match takes place 1 week after round 2.

Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

First Reaction
I would say I'm correct in saying that Savage has never been in a ladder match and Mysterio has been in one ladder match (I'm not counting MITB). That being said, it's irrelevant and won't be factoring in to my decision. I'm leaning towards Savage because he's quick and agile just like Mysterio. It would be an amazing match to witness and I just see Savage coming out on top.

 

[Tastycles]

I think the obvious conclusion people will jump to is that Mysterio wins because he is smaller or whatever. This is the wrong train of thought. Basically, the winner of a ladder match is rarely the smallest or the quickest. You have to be agile enough - nobody is suggesting Khali would win one - but not necessarily the most agile man in the match. For proof of this, look at the ladder match where Razor Ramon beat Shawn Michaels. So then, as both men are agile, I don't think the stipulation really helps either of them.

This match would probably be my all time favourite if it ever happened, but who would win? For my money it's Savage. He's not big enough to fall into Mysterio's usual giantkilling traps, but sufficiently quick enough to match him. People like Edge have shown that if you are in that inbetween zone, you can consistently beat Rey Mysterio.

Ultimately, I think it boils down to the fact that Savage is simply the bigger star, having been more of a feature on the card, drawing more fans and winning more titles than Rey could ever dream of. I think Rey is fantastic, but he loses this one.

 

[klunderbunker]

Rey is indeed faster but Savage doesn't exactly have an anchor tied to his foot. He's known as one of the best high fliers of his era and ca get up to the top as fast as anyone. Also at the end of the day, Savage can brawl far better than Rey could. Do you really want to get Savage into a fight with someone? He's going to be as good as anyone else in a brawl and he can more than handle Mysterio. Combine that with his speed and there's almost no way that Mysterio is going to beat him.

 

[Danger Burger]

Savage has this one in the bag i'd say! He could deal with Mysterios speed, and out match him on strenght! Does star power still count in these later rounds (first tournament experience, sorry) because the macho man knocks it out of the park in that respect too! Could have been an unbelievable match! Would loved to have seen an elbow from the top of the ladder!!

 

[Nate DaMac]

Yeah, Mysterio has the experience in his corner. I don't think that's really a factor though. Savage would have excelled in Ladder matches had he had the opportunity to participate in one. No doubt in my mind that he could have had some classics.

So in my mind, the gimmick is null and void so I'm going with the one who I think would win, Savage. Bigger star, better wrestler, and better in just about every other category.

 

[The_Sharpshooter]

Aw man, my imagination runs crazy thinking of this one. Thinking of Macho Madness in heel fashion beating on Rey unmercilessly while Mysterio played the underdog to a tee, this could've been an extremely entertaining match. The type that would kickoff a Wrestlemania or a Starrcade.

Gotta give it to Savage. He could break Mysterio if he wanted to. And if I remember correctly, Savage doesn't lose to people his size or smaller, sans Flair. Savage is the man and should be in the Final 8 of this tournament yearly. OH YEA!

 

[The Brain]

Yeah, Mysterio has the experience in his corner. I don't think that's really a factor though. Savage would have excelled in Ladder matches had he had the opportunity to participate in one. No doubt in my mind that he could have had some classics.

So in my mind, the gimmick is null and void so I'm going with the one who I think would win, Savage. Bigger star, better wrestler, and better in just about every other category.

Completely agree. If the WWF was doing ladder matches a few years earlier Savage would have been the master. We've all seen Savage go to the top rope a thousand times. As Gorilla Monsoon always said he was right at home up there. He was so comfortable up there and always showed tremendous balance. Even when taking a big fall from the top rope to the floor Savage always got up so taking a fall from the ladder won't exactly be new to him. Savage was definitely fast enough to keep up with Mysterio. One advantage he has is his intensity and agression. Savage has a mean streak that Mysterio lacks. Most people think of high aerial spots when thinking of a ladder match but don't forget the ladder is a weapon too. I could see Savage pummeling Mysterio with the ladder as the aggresor of the match. I know a lot will see ladder match and think Mysterio but if you really stop to think about it this match definitely goes to Savage.

 

[Remix]

I think you're overlooking one thing here though. Randy's Macho Madness. I agree that Randy isn't going to have any problems climbing a ladder. But I would argue that in the heat of the moment, when Rey is lying motionless beneath him he's not going to take the chance to win, instead doing an elbow drop off the ladder and possibly go for the pin, which could give Rey the opening he needs. Remember, Randy lost the 1993 Rumble (a match type he'd already competed in, in an unfamiliar set of circumstances Savage may be more prone to succumbing to the madness) because he tried to pin Yokozuna. It's certainly not off limits for a similar lapse of judgement to cost him the win here.

That said, I'm still going to vote for Savage if I remember to. Macho Madness (or a whole lot of luck) is Rey's only hope of winning, and the match is Savage's to lose.

 

[The Best]

I'm voting Savage.

Going back to what The Brain posted, Savage was so comfortable with the high risk, top rope moves, and showed tremendous balance. Savage was also an all around better wrestler than Mysterio is/was, and a much better technician in my opinion. Savage was a champion in the Hogan era, which is something that not many wrestlers (besides Hulk Hogan of course) have accomplished. Savage was all around better inside the ring, and adding a ladder won't change that.

To add to that, Savage doesn't have to exactly climb the ladder a lot in the match, and out speed Rey, and make it a foot race to the ladder and the briefcase. Savage could tire Rey out, and keep on putting pressure on Rey, and then climb the ladder and get the briefcase. Savage beats Rey here.

Vote Randy Savage.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

You don't have to be tiny to win a ladder match - that being said, Savage isn't exactly a big brute either. He may not have the experience, but Mysterio's advantage is minimal at best, if not completely irrelevant. You don't have to be Edge or Jeff Hardy to know how to take out an opponent, climb a ladder, and unhook something.

The only reason I think Mysterio might take this is the Tournament kayfabe I'm trying to stick to. Rey Mysterio got past Chris Benoit, which I'm sure would have been a challenging technical bout, but Randy Savage fought Brock Lesnar and came out on top. I have to imagine one would need several weeks, if not months to recover from. I'm not so sure Savage would be in any shape to compete in such a match, after being wrecked and tossed about a ring by the meanest brute in the last decade of wrestling. As John Cena just proved, you can still WIN a match like that, but as he also proved you get pretty banged up in the process...

Still, Savage has done some impossible things in wrestling. Not sure how I'm going to vote, so I'll keep it neutral for now. Now if you don't factor in Tournament kayfabe, which I wouldn't blame you for (yes I would), then you better damn well vote for Savage.

 

[Slyfox696]

Because it needs to be said. Randy Savage in his prime was far more agile and far more fleet of foot than Rey Mysterio in his prime. Rey Mysterio's prime was in the late 00's, when he was 'roided up, injury prone and not nearly as much of a high flyer as he was in the mid 90s. Randy Savage in his prime was one of the quickest and most agile workers in the world.

Randy Savage in his prime is faster than Mysterio in his. Throw in the fact Savage is one of the greatest all time workers, a bigger draw to the traditional American audience (which is ultimately what the WWE targets) and main-evented during Hogan's two runs, Savage wins this match easily.

There is absolutely no advantage to be held by Mysterio. Unless getting your ass kicked is an advantage...

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Because it needs to be said. Randy Savage in his prime was far more agile and far more fleet of foot than Rey Mysterio in his prime. Rey Mysterio's prime was in the late 00's, when he was 'roided up, injury prone and not nearly as much of a high flyer as he was in the mid 90s. Randy Savage in his prime was one of the quickest and most agile workers in the world.

Randy Savage in his prime is faster than Mysterio in his. Throw in the fact Savage is one of the greatest all time workers, a bigger draw to the traditional American audience (which is ultimately what the WWE targets) and main-evented during Hogan's two runs, Savage wins this match easily.

There is absolutely no advantage to be held by Mysterio. Unless getting your ass kicked is an advantage...

Couldn't say it better myself.

Savage is very capable of climbing a ladder to win a briefcase. Rey's knees may not be able to hold up to the punishment that Savage would deliver neither.

Savage is one of the most well-rounded wrestlers in his generation. He's a brawler, high-flyer, and a solid mat wrestler when needed. Savage's signature moves were based on the top rope... so heights and flying wouldn't bother Savage.

Mysterio also couldn't depend on his high-flying as much, because of Savage's quickness and intelligence to immobilize Mysterio and make sure he doesn't get to the ladder.

Vote Savage. DIG IT?!

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Although my initial gut reaction was Mysterio would have the advantage here, the more I think about it, the more I am leaning towards Savage.

He is bigger than Rey (who isn't?) but still has the speed and agility to deal with Mysterio's fast-paced offense, and also has the power, strength and mean streak that Mysterio lacks.

Savage would use the ladder as a weapon, and as KB said, is a far better brawler than Rey ever was. I could see this being a show-stealing match as I truly think Macho would have excelled in ladder matches against the likes of HBK, Bret Hart etc in his prime.

He is the bigger star, better wrestler and has attributes that Mysterio lacks that would really help him in this match.

Be a man. Vote Savage

 

[Theatom]

I could picture the ending of this match, Rey is on the mat lifeless while randy goes up to grab the briefcase but instead of doing what needs to be done he showboats and tries to hit an elbow from the top of the ladder (which he has never done before by savage) and misses, Savage gets up dazed and Rey does the 619 and climbs the ladder to grab the briefcase, the underdog wins

 

[Owen 3:16 says I just stole your Slammy!!]

Mysterio and Savage can both fly and they both have speed. Macho is a better brawler then Mysterio. Macho may never had to wrestler on a ladder but it makes no difference because he has the agility. Macho would do anything to win the match. With that, I expect that Randy uses the ladder as a weapon on Mysterio. Savage would target Mysterio's weak legs. This would been a great match.

My vote: Macho Man Randy Savage

 

[Davi323]

I am going to agree with everyone else, but rather than just rehash the common "Savage was quick and agile too" line of thinking, I am going to pick Savage for the OTHER element of ladder matches. The brutality. The using ladders as weapons against your opponent to knock them out part. Randy Savage in his prime was a heel who would have no reservations whatsoever about attempting to injure Rey Mysterio. If he can drive a bell into Steamboat's throat, he certainly wouldn't hesitate to use a ladder as a weapon. Further, Savage showed that he is capable of absorbing a tremendous amount of punishment in a match. Savage would win this because he is going to be more likely to brutalize Rey with the ladder than Rey would be to take out Savage, AND because he would be able to absorb the blows better than Rey would.

Besides...Randy Savage getting the opportunity to deliver a flying elbow drop off of a ladder instead of a turnbuckle? You know that would happen. You know you want to see that.

 

[Uncle Sam]

It's time for another interesting Sam fact! You're getting hard already, aren't you? As far as I can tell - and that's not particularly far at all - Rey Mysterio has only ever competed in a single one-on-one ladder match. He's been in the Money in the Bank ladder match, and he was in a tag team ladder match on an episode of Nitro, but he's only been in the one singles ladder match.

In case you'd forgotten, it was against Eddie Guerrero. They were wrestling for the custody of Rey's son. If that doesn't remind you, I don't know what will. Rey was wearing blue. Charles Robinson was the referee. Yeah? Remember now? Anyway, Rey won.

Rey Mysterio has a 100% record in ladder matches and Randy Savage has never even been in one. Cold, hard statistics. What, you're going to argue with mathematics now?

In actuality, I think Randy Savage would likely win this. Savage is tiers above Mysterio in everything but my personal preferences, and this a is a gimmick which just doesn't tip the scales enough. I don't have a hard time believing that Rey could win this. I don't believe that, when it really comes down to the wire, Rey would. I'll probably give Rey a pity vote - he doesn't deserve to get squashed as hard as he's about to be. If some profound cosmic fart occurs and the two are drawn on votes, you can go ahead and count this as a written vote for Mysterio.

 

[D-Man]

Because it needs to be said. Randy Savage in his prime was far more agile and far more fleet of foot than Rey Mysterio in his prime. Rey Mysterio's prime was in the late 00's, when he was 'roided up, injury prone and not nearly as much of a high flyer as he was in the mid 90s. Randy Savage in his prime was one of the quickest and most agile workers in the world.

Randy Savage in his prime is faster than Mysterio in his. Throw in the fact Savage is one of the greatest all time workers, a bigger draw to the traditional American audience (which is ultimately what the WWE targets) and main-evented during Hogan's two runs, Savage wins this match easily.

There is absolutely no advantage to be held by Mysterio. Unless getting your ass kicked is an advantage...

It's times like this when I wish I could hug Slyfox for not only saying everything that's on my mind, but saying everything that is 150% correct about this matchup. Regardless of the majority of Mysterio's fanbase (who probably weren't even alive to see Savage's innovation in high-flying) they really don't have a leg to stand on here. Randy Savage is easily one of the most agile and crisp professional wrestlers to ever enter the ring. Not only could Savage do anything better than Rey Mysterio, he could do it at 248lbs while Rey was doing it at 175lbs.

This is a no-brainer win for Savage.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I know a lot of you IWC'ers concern yourself with pacing, and how quickly they move around the ring, and how rest holds are bad, bad bad, and other nonsense like that. This is your wet dream.

These wouldn't stop moving for the entire 20 minutes this would last. Rey would hit that second rope more times than you could count, and Savage would match that... hitting the third rope, seeing he's not 3 1/2 feet tall.

You wouldn't get bored, that's for sure. Not even those of you with an attention span under four seconds.

Anyhow, Savage wins. He can't do half the nifty things Mysterio can, but he's twice the bad ass. No ladder matches? Savage isn't Hogan, guys. He can climb a ladder.

Savage wins.

 

[Shocky]

Rey Mysterio was apart of the worst ladder match I have ever watched, therefore he loses on that alone. That Guerrero/Mysterio Ladder match might have been the single most painful ladder match to sit through ever. Just completely terrible.

Randy Savage is just simply better then Mysterio at almost everything, minus wearing a mask. I think Mysterio is great, but his "speed and agility" won't count for shit in this matchup. Savage wins, wins rather easily.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I don't like this implication that Randy Savage can do anything that Rey Mysterio can and better. Is Randy Savage a better wrestler than Rey Mysterio and more significant to the industry? That's the sensible view to take, I can go along with it. But Randy Savage is not all that Rey Mysterio is and then some - that's just ridiculous.

Savage was agile and athletic, but not to the extent that Mysterio was and, an argument could be made, is. Mysterio's offence was and is some of the most innovative, ingenious and spectacular you can find, and he's achieved success and longevity because he can maintain that and sandwich it within a cohesive match and an interesting story. Mysterio even has a niche which is pretty unique to him; drawing in the Hispanic audience for WWE.

Savage was superior to Mysterio. Savage would defeat Mysterio in a ladder match, probably. However, Savage was not superior in every single aspect to Rey Mysterio.

 

[Slyfox696]

Savage was agile and athletic, but not to the extent that Mysterio was and, an argument could be made, is. Mysterio's offence was and is some of the most innovative, ingenious and spectacular you can find, and he's achieved success and longevity because he can maintain that and sandwich it within a cohesive match and an interesting story. Mysterio even has a niche which is pretty unique to him; drawing in the Hispanic audience for WWE.

The problem with your statement here is you are comparing two different eras of Mysterio, when you are only supposed to be looking at Mysterio in his prime. You can't have it both ways. You can't say 1997 Rey Mysterio, with the working ability and accomplishments of 2008 Rey Mysterio.

For the purpose of this tournament, Rey's prime would be after 2005. It was his biggest drawing period, when he won his Royal Rumble and when he won his World Championships. Rey Mysterio after 2005 is not as quick or agile as Savage was in the late 80s, early 90s, which was his prime.

Now, you might try and argue Mysterio's prime was in the mid to late 90s, but if you do, then his accomplishments and drawing aren't even on the same chart as Savage.

So no, Savage is quicker and more agile than Mysterio. And more accomplished. And a bigger name.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Savage is more accomplished than Mysterio, a bigger name than Mysterio and he would more than likely defeat Mysterio in this match. These are givens. I've given them to you since I started posting in this thread:

In actuality, I think Randy Savage would likely win this. Savage is tiers above Mysterio in everything but my personal preferences, and this a is a gimmick which just doesn't tip the scales enough.

I gave them to you again in my second post:

Savage was superior to Mysterio. Savage would defeat Mysterio in a ladder match, probably.

I'm giving them to you now. Take them. Please, take them. I haven't licked them or peed on them or anything. Go ahead.

I wasn't concerned with primes simply because I wasn't trying to make the case for Mysterio winning. However, I'd say one could even make the case for modern day Mysterio being more agile than the Macho Man. He's got a fucked up knee, a fucked up arm, a little bit of a belly, yet I still never saw Randy Savage hit a springboard moonsault, or a baseball slide into a head scissors takedown, or a wheelbarrow bodyscissors. Rey's lost a step in his "old age", but he more than compensates for it with ingenuity and can do much more in the ring than what his detractors might have you believe.

That's not a slight on Macho Man - he was a six foot two American heavyweight, not a five foot six Mexican luchadore. For his size, for any size, he was an incredible athlete and would have no problem scaling a ladder - as he did to paint his shed every summer - to win this match.

 

[Peoples_Champ]

I'm not a Mysterio fan at all, and I won't be voting for him, but I don't think he's getting the respect that he deserves. This match is about resilience, speed, agility and flashy / high-risk spots. Macho Man will win, but Mysterio has an awesome chance and I'm very surprised that more people aren't voting for him.

Obviously most of the people voting here are marking out for Macho and Rey is out of everyone's age demographic, but still, Rey deserves more votes.

That being said, I'm voting Macho.