In defense of cheating?

[LSN80]

A co-worker of mine has raised an interesting argument for it, I must say. I know we've discussed both cheating and open marriages here before, but this is a different take on it. Being that she's allowed me to share her story, I'll attempt to relay it as best I can.

*Sonya* is a 56 year old woman who has been working with me for a year and a half now. She and her husband have been married for 30 years, and have 3 children together. They're as happy as they've ever been, she insists. The kicker? Sonya's husband has been having an affair for the past six months.

Two years ago, Sonya lost all interest in sex. She intimated to me that she's still attracted to her husband, finding him handsome and fit. It's just that she is no longer stimulated in that way, and the two of them haven't had sex in over a year. After several late nights out, being unable to reach him, Sonya had her husband followed. Much to her relief, she told me, he's only having an affair. She gave me an analogy of playing pool. Her husband is an avid player, she told me, yet she herself hates it. So her husband plays with other people. So being that she has no interest in sex, why shouldn't her husband be able to engage with other people, she argues?

The problem I had with the first analogy, I told her, was that pool is not engaging physically or intimately with other people. She proceeded to present me with a second analogy. Twice a week, Sonya gets a full body massage. It's a physical need for her, a form of release. It's not something her husband does for her, it's something she has done independent of him. To her, her husband having sex with someone else is the same. It's a physical need of his, and since she's unable/unwilling to provide it for him, she has no problem with him getting his needs met elsewhere. Further attempts of mine to argue were futile, as she just smiled at me as if to say, 'You'll understand when you're my age.' And perhaps I will, but as of now, I do not.

Let's look at this from two different angles:

If your spouse/significant other no longer had interest in sex, and gave you permission to have sex with someone else, would you?

If you lost interest in sex, could you give your spouse/significant other permission to have sex with someone else? Would it be selfish not to?

Sonya further intimated to me that her husband doesn't know that she knows he's having an affair. Also, she hasn't given him her overt blessing to have one, as they've never had a discussion about it. She doesn't want to rock the boat, she says, as she and her husband are happier then they've ever been. They haven't fought about sex since he's started having an affair, and they're the best of friends. Personally, I couldn't be happy in a relationship with deception hanging over it, but Sonya's content. She doesn't discuss every aspect of her life with her husband, so why should he?

If you were Sonya(being uninterested in sex but otherwise satisfied in your relationship), would you confront your significant other on the knowledge that they're having an affair?

Former NBA player Andre Kirilenko presents an interesting case study, which I'm sure many of you are aware of. His wife, former pop star Masha Lapatova, has given Kirilenko permission to have sex with another woman once a year. Calling it his 'allowance', Lapatova has given Kirileno a free pass, no strings attached. Kirilenko claims that he is 'appreciative' of his wife's offer, but has yet to take her up on it. Her rationale for it? She explained it to ESPN the Magazine:

"What's forbidden is always desirable. And athletes, particularly men, are susceptible to all the things they are offered. "It's the same way raising children - If I tell my child, 'No pizza, no pizza, no pizza,' what does he want more than anything? Pizza."

What I've bolded is essentially the heart of the matter for me. While Lapatova went on to explain that this isn't an open marriage or an affair because she's giving permission, she's also still putting restrictions on Kirilenko. Using her analogy, he's only allowed 'one piece of pizza'. What if he decides he wants a second slice, or even the whole pie? It's still forbidden, isn't it? I understand that European culture is different from the North American one, but to me, it's a slippery slope of temptation.

Could you imagine having an arrangement the way Kirilenko and Lapatova do? What problems could you imagine arising in such a scenario?

And just for the heck of it:

If your spouse significant other gave you permission to sleep with one celebrity, who would it be?

Id go with Olivia Wilde myself.

Feel free to answer all of the questions, or none of them. I've opened up several scenarios here, so discuss them as you like.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Hey, a topic we (probably) won't fall out over!

If your spouse/significant other no longer had interest in sex, and gave you permission to have sex with someone else, would you?

Possibly, but not in an affair sort of way. If I loved my partner, I would be wary of forming a relationship that might compromise it. So I suppose that would leave two options - one night stands (easier said than done) or prostitutes... both of which would raise questions of their own about myself.

If you lost interest in sex, could you give your spouse/significant other permission to have sex with someone else? Would it be selfish not to?

Again, this is speculation but I have to say that I don't know if I could love someone which sounds hypocritical given my response to the first question but there is an emotional link to do with sex. Definitely not with the same partner.

If you were Sonya(being uninterested in sex but otherwise satisfied in your relationship), would you confront your significant other on the knowledge that they're having an affair?

Definitely. If there is an emotional connection to the affair then throw in deception and that emotion intensifies. Whatever the consequences, at the very least, I'd need to know the level of the relationship between her and her lover (just sex or more).

Could you imagine having an arrangement the way Kirilenko and Lapatova do? What problems could you imagine arising in such a scenario?

I'd have to say no because all addictions begin with just one piece and peoples levels of restraint lessen with every addition piece.

If your spouse significant other gave you permission to sleep with one celebrity, who would it be?

Ah, the "Friend's" celebrity pass (although they went with 5 on the card to increase the chances of meeting). In no particular order...

• Kirsten Dunst
• Drew Barrymore
• Christina Ricci
• Emma Bunton
• Leann Rimes

 

[klunderbunker]

As many of you know, I've never done drugs, smoked or had alcohol of any sort. They're things I've been presented with offers for in the past, but I've never taken up any of those offers. Now I'm trying to lose weight to improve my health, which is primarily being done by eating less bad foods and exercising more. How do I go about doing this? Just don't do things I know I shouldn't. It's the same idea here.

I have a girlfriend who I love very much. She lives 3000 miles away from me and unfortunately I only get to see her for about two months every year. Obviously, there are a few things I'd like to do with her more often than I get to. That being said, I'm not about to go out and find someone else to fill in the time with, and for one main reason: it's not her.

I don't want to go out and cheat on my girlfriend because it wouldn't be the same. Yeah it would feel good for a bit, but there wouldn't be any emotional connection to any of these people, which is the best part of the whole thing. It's the mentality of a quick fix instead of looking for something more meaningful.

Let's look at a real life example in the form of my dad (who oddly enough is married to a woman named Sonya). This is his fifth marriage, and from what I can tell the previous four all ended from affairs. These affairs have cost him money from divorce settlements, the acceptance of his family, any sort of trust and/or respect from his son, and a lot of time in his life. This would all be because he can't handle his physical desires.

At the end of the day, when you say I Do to someone, it's saying they're the only person you say you do to. This mentality of "well if they're happy then so be it" is a big reason why marriage becomes more and more worthless every day. What's the point in the Sonia in the original example being married anymore? Economic? It's certainly not intimacy, and I fail to see how you can claim to be completely in love with someone while sleeping with someone else on the side.

As for the questions:

1. No. She may be fine with it now, but that very well may change. Also i couldn't live with that kind of guilt.

2. I wouldn't, and yeah it would be a bit selfish. If you have no desire to, at the end of the day your partner, as in someone who in theory is equal to you in the relationship, still is interested in intimacy. As part of a marriage, it's one of your responsibilities to make sure the other is satisfied in that area. Help them out like you're supposed to and quit thinking about just yourself.

3. Absolutely.

4. As far as "what's forbidden is always desireable", yes it is. However, there's a difference between raising children and dealing with adults. It's the "the devil made me do it" argument. In other words, for some reason this person can't be held responsible for their own actions, despite the vast majority of people being held responsible. Use some self-control instead of just doing what feels good.

5. Aside from many others, how does she know it's just once a year?

6. That's a very good question.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Answers to questions:

1) It's a possibility but I would never engage in an affair. The most I would do is go see a prostitute. If I have physical needs that my wife can no longer meet then I would only seek sex as a commodity, if at all.

2) It depends on what stage our marriage is in. If we are currently raising kids then there's no way in hell I'd give my blessing. If she came and talked to me about it, we had an empty nest, and we were nearing old age, I'd probably give my consent to do so (assuming I'm not physically able to perform my duties as a husband anymore).

3) Yes I would and this is the part where I think Sonya is full of shit on being OK with her husband's philandering. Her refusing to further discuss the issue with you just shows how vulnerable she is (both physically and emotionally) and that she doesn't want to be alone. If Sonya and her husband had a good, respectful marriage he wouldn't have been afraid to share his intentions of seeking sexual satisfaction outside of their union. It's deception and there's no argument that can right that wrong.

4) As long as we had no kids in the house and no major financial ties to each other, I'd consider it. My wife is the reason why I'm graduating from law school in two weeks and thus the reason while we'll be living quite comfortably for the rest of out lives. In addition to footing the bill for me to go to law school, she's supported me financially, emotionally, and physically for the past three years. She has worked 80-100 hours a week for the past three years just to make sure I didn't have to work when school was in session. I cannot put a price on what she's done for me and I will be eternally grateful to her for giving me an opportunity and now a life that I could only have dreamed of three years ago. Under the circumstances I have just described I don't see how any man could not give their wife a hall pass if they asked for one.

5) I wouldn't even take up the offer with permission AND active encouragement.

 

[Dagger Dias]

If your spouse/significant other no longer had interest in sex, and gave you permission to have sex with someone else, would you?

No. If I was told I had permission to have sex with someone else, I'd turn down the idea. When I chose to marry, I chose to never be with anyone else again until death do us part. An affair or even a one night stand that you have permission to do is still a violation of the marriage commitment in my opinion. Now, for those who are in a serious relationship but not married.... It's a little different, but during my dating days before I got married I'd still feel like I was being unfaithful even if I had permission. So, I would say no.

If you lost interest in sex, could you give your spouse/significant other permission to have sex with someone else? Would it be selfish not to?

Assuming I did, for whatever reason, lose interest in sex.... I'd never give my spouse (or signficant other during my dating days) permission to have sex with someone else. Ever. I'd consider the route of simply being friends with them instead rather than be in a relationship. If I didn't want to be intimate with them, then why be with them as more than friends? A relationship without sexual intimacy isn't really much more than a friendship to me, unless one or both of the two in the relationship is/are abstaining by choice. That's a whole other topic though.

If you were Sonya(being uninterested in sex but otherwise satisfied in your relationship), would you confront your significant other on the knowledge that they're having an affair?

I would confront my signficant other about the affair and most likely split up. Like I said before, if I'm not interested in sex but still satisfied in the relationship then that to me is a friendship. I'd still want to be friends given that I was satisfied with every other aspect of the relationship so clearly I would still want her in my life, but there'd be no reason to be more than friends at that point.

Could you imagine having an arrangement the way Kirilenko and Lapatova do? What problems could you imagine arising in such a scenario?

I would not feel comfortable agreeing to such a scenario in the first place. It risks the "free pass" turning into an affair if either begin to develop feelings for the other and that could destroy the marriage. Sex is meant to be a special act you only share with your significant other. Inviting anyone else in, permission or not, disrupts that bond you share. I made a commitment and intend to honor it. Permission doesn't change anything. That depends on the values of the couple. My religious beliefs and personal values would never allow for permission of sexual encounters with anyone other than my wife or for her to have any with anyone else either. Permission doesn't change anything, it's still infidelity and being unfaithful.

If your spouse significant other gave you permission to sleep with one celebrity, who would it be?

Trish Stratus. My wife could tell me I have permission to have sex with Trish and even encourage me to, but I'd STILL fight the urge with every fiber of my being and say no. I love my wife and after all we have been through I want to remain true to my vows.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Sonya further intimated to me that her husband doesn't know that she knows he's having an affair.

That's the point that blows the whole subject out of the water. Her husband is cheating on her; he's having sex outside marriage without her knowledge (as far as he's concerned). He isn't asking her feelings about it; he's just doing it. It's one thing to have your spouse's permission to have sex outside the marriage, but in this case, her husband is being actively unfaithful to her, for gosh sakes. However, if she's not bothered by it, why should anyone else be? There are all types of "arrangements" between married people that would curl the hair of regular folks. If two people agree on it, it's their business. If one of the spouses is being made a fool of.....but is aware of it and permitting it.....then everyone should leave it alone.

POINT: Consider the analogy mentioned in this topic between having sex out of marriage....and playing pool. In divorce actions, while judges have found adultery sufficient cause to grant a divorce in favor of the aggrieved spouse, I doubt there were many who found "Playing Billiards" a viable cause of action in favor of the spouse suing for divorce.

In the case mentioned here, it seems the wife is trivializing sex, comparing it to a recreational activity like pool. But, if it makes both spouses happy, it's their business.

If your spouse significant other gave you permission to sleep with one celebrity, who would it be?

I have a short list, ranked as follows:

1. Drew McIntyre
2. Drew McIntyre
3. Drew McIntyre

....and, as a dark horse contender: Drew McIntyre

 

[Jack-Hammer]

If your spouse/significant other no longer had interest in sex, and gave you permission to have sex with someone else, would you?

I suppose that I can't say yes or no for 100% certainty as I've never been in such a position. I do think that a potential problem that arises from such allowances is the possibility of the other sexual relationship blossoming into something deeper. Many people don't take into account that other, deeper intimacies can evolve out of a sexual relationship. Just going by what I ASSUME I would feel, I don't believe that I would. When you're with someone that you genuinely love, there are simply far more important elements of a relationship than sex.

If you lost interest in sex, could you give your spouse/significant other permission to have sex with someone else? Would it be selfish not to?

Again, based on what I ASSUME about things as how I might feel, I'd say no. That's especially if we're married. Unfortunately, marriage vows aren't taken seriously by a great many people today, especially when things start to get a little bit rocky. I'm realistic enough to know & acknowledge that things won't always be rosy and that rough patches will pop up. The potential loss of sexual interest, or even the ability to perform sexually due to illness or injury or whatever, is such a thing. For better or worse, in sickness & in health mean something to me and I wouldn't hold anyone to something I myself don't believe in.

If you were Sonya(being uninterested in sex but otherwise satisfied in your relationship), would you confront your significant other on the knowledge that they're having an affair?

Absolutely. If this was something that'd been between my significant other & myself, her having a sexual relationship with another man, and I was okay about it; that'd be one thing. However, the fact that her hubby is keeping it a secret from her obviously indicates that he things he's doing something wrong. After all, say my libido returned and I was willing & able to resume a sexual relationship, I'd want to know about the type of person my significant other was with. I'd want details on that person, or people if there was more than one. If nothing else, I'd want to protect myself. Maybe this other person has been promiscuous and has something. I wouldn't want to catch an STD just because others might be irresponsible.


Could you imagine having an arrangement the way Kirilenko and Lapatova do? What problems could you imagine arising in such a scenario?

In some ways, it sounds like she's being practical. Let's face it, when it comes to running around having affairs, there are no bigger dogs than athletes. Maybe she believes that if he hasn't had sex with other women yet that he simply will give in at some point. Maybe the idea of monogamy for men isn't something that she herself simply doesn't subscribe to. As I said in my first statement, however, the potential problems can arise when a sexual relationship deepens & blossoms into something more. That's when the shit ultimately hits the fan. While it isn't technically an open marriage, it seems like it's half of one. She's basically telling him he can sleep with who he wants as long as its within certain parameters. The thing about open marriages is that the vast majority of them, based on information I've read & heard about on the news, implode because whatever rules have been set up tend to be violated. Part of the attraction some have for open marriages is a sense of freedom, yet that freedom is still constrained by certain rules that you come to agree on. Rules that include maybe not sleeping with someone your spouse doesn't approve of, or meeting someone in secret without telling your spouse. What if her man suddenly takes her up on her offer but does things his own way rather than going by whatever guidelines she implements? Also, what if she herself decides to start seeing other men on the side? Is that something they've discussed? Would he be okay with it? Such arrangements can work in theory and I'm sure they work for some who practice open marriage. It's just that most people simply wind up breaking their own rules for whatever reason, and that's when all hell breaks loose.

 

[Loveless]

Really interesting topic and I'll get to the questions in a moment. It is worth admitting that socially, biologically and in terms of evolution, monogamy isn't a natural state for humans, infact it's quite unnatural when you look at the full picture.

Attraction does lessen with time
Biologically we're programmed to spread the love
Who really wants to fuck someone that looks like your children?

There are a load of others that escape my mind right now. Anyway

If your spouse/significant other no longer had interest in sex, and gave you permission to have sex with someone else, would you?

No, I love my girl and have no interest in anyone else.

If you lost interest in sex, could you give your spouse/significant other permission to have sex with someone else? Would it be selfish not to?

Not only could I, I have done, albeit it strict rules. Not due to a lack of sex drive, it's just things are long-distance at the moment and she has a very high sex drive. She declined my offer repeatedly.

If you were Sonya(being uninterested in sex but otherwise satisfied in your relationship), would you confront your significant other on the knowledge that they're having an affair?

Absolutely, I don't tolerate deception of any kind.

Could you imagine having an arrangement the way Kirilenko and Lapatova do? What problems could you imagine arising in such a scenario?

It's not something we're interested in. If we want someone else we'd just invite them to join us.

If your spouse significant other gave you permission to sleep with one celebrity, who would it be?

Hmm no-one really comes to mind, maybe Anne Hathaway

 

[PsychoBlack]

I may be the youngest person to respond to this and I have quite a different take on this then most of the other posters have stated (or were willing to admit). First of all I know a lot of you will say that this is a double standard and that I'm to young to know anything and all that Jazz. With that being said, I feel that in a relationship a man has the right to have sex with other women as long as he uses protection, but, a woman on the other hand does not have the same right. The reason that I say this is because men have sex because they like the way it feels nothing more nothing less unless it is with a woman that they love and care for then they have sex to satisfy their partner as well as their self. Women have sex because they genuinely like their partner and want to make him feel good. Yes their is the occasional female that will have sex with a random guy just because, however, more often then those same females are usually not in a relationship because most men don't want that type of female as the girl they take home to meet their mother. I do have a girlfriend that I care for deeply, she's in Florida while I'm in Mississippi for college. I have "cheated" on her and I'm sure she knows this but would never ask me about it. I'd never tell her about it either because quite frankly it's not her business, as long as I'm not running around saying that someone else is my girlfriend and I don't bring any STD's back to her she shouldn't have any thing to complain about as long as I treat her with respect and never put another female above her. Other people have told her about my actions in the past however we're both happy so why does what they say matter?

Now on to the questions

If your spouse/significant other no longer had interest in sex, and gave you permission to have sex with someone else, would you?

I think that I pretty much covered this in my opening statement, but just to reiterate, yes I would. I only have four things that I really enjoy doing and those are smoking pot, watching wrestling, working out and having sex. I get into a really gloomy mood when I go without any of these for a sustained period of time (each has a different period of time) I'm not a very fun person to be around when I go without these things and if I didn't take my partner up on these offers I may end up without one.

If you lost interest in sex, could you give your spouse/significant other permission to have sex with someone else? Would it be selfish not to?

I don't know if I would ever lose interest in Sex. It just doesn't seem realistic to me in the foreseeable future so I don't know that I can honestly answer this question.

Sonya further intimated to me that her husband doesn't know that she knows he's having an affair. Also, she hasn't given him her overt blessing to have one, as they've never had a discussion about it. She doesn't want to rock the boat, she says, as she and her husband are happier then they've ever been. They haven't fought about sex since he's started having an affair, and they're the best of friends. Personally, I couldn't be happy in a relationship with deception hanging over it, but Sonya's content. She doesn't discuss every aspect of her life with her husband, so why should he?

If you were Sonya(being uninterested in sex but otherwise satisfied in your relationship), would you confront your significant other on the knowledge that they're having an affair?

If I were Sonya I would think about how her husband would take it. If he was the type of guy to freak out and feel guilty then no, I wouldn't. If you want him to be happy and you know that he will freak out about it why tell him? If he's more of a chilled type of guy then yes she should tell him just so he doesn't feel like he has anything to hide and that the trust in the relationship is there.

What I've bolded is essentially the heart of the matter for me. While Lapatova went on to explain that this isn't an open marriage or an affair because she's giving permission, she's also still putting restrictions on Kirilenko. Using her analogy, he's only allowed 'one piece of pizza'. What if he decides he wants a second slice, or even the whole pie? It's still forbidden, isn't it? I understand that European culture is different from the North American one, but to me, it's a slippery slope of temptation.

Could you imagine having an arrangement the way Kirilenko and Lapatova do? What problems could you imagine arising in such a scenario?

I could see myself doing this further down the road. When I'm older and feel that my wife is all that I need and she presents me an offer like this I'd take it and comply with it. The only problem that could come from it would be if you gave yourself multiple passes instead of the just the one that she gave you.

And just for the heck of it:

If your spouse significant other gave you permission to sleep with one celebrity, who would it be?

Can't pick just one so i've made a list of 5
1. Beyonce
2. Trina
3. Pinkyxxx
4. Sara Jay
5. Kelly Divine

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

If your spouse/significant other no longer had interest in sex, and gave you permission to have sex with someone else, would you?

No, smart man will know that its a trap.

Probably no. There is a lot more in mariage for just sex and after 30 years of mariage i could restrain for my wishes. Do all my needs have to be satisfied? No.

If you lost interest in sex, could you give your spouse/significant other permission to have sex with someone else? Would it be selfish not to?

I would but somehow would be deaply dissapointed if she acctually did it. I am little oldfashioned and dont like "open relationship" things.

Would it be selfish not to? Yes a little, but mariage is about wishes of both partners and not just one. That would be like one partner had the need of cheating and other said that he /she cant do it because then she/he couldnt stand that idea.

If you were Sonya(being uninterested in sex but otherwise satisfied in your relationship), would you confront your significant other on the knowledge that they're having an affair?

Yes by any means. And would seek very good mariage conselor to go.

No point in covering something that you are bothered in relationship if you maybe can fix that.

Could you imagine having an arrangement the way Kirilenko and Lapatova do? What problems could you imagine arising in such a scenario?

No, as i said, i am little oldfashioned...

Problem is that you ought to have both partners agree on that "open" concept. Perhaps thats why she is "former" wife, because even though she agreed she was bothered by fact...

If your spouse significant other gave you permission to sleep with one celebrity, who would it be?

Kelly Brook.

 

[Dilligaf]

Me & my wife Donna have been married for nearly 20 years (this August will be 20 years), we have 2 sons (Darren 18, Wayne 17) we have had many ups & downs like most couples do, but we have drifted apart for many years as we have different interests & the physical part of our marriage has dwindled the last few years to now non-existent.

Also these days I feel that the ONLY reason we are still together is because I have a job and as im the only person in our household that works & she only keeps me around because of my wage packet.

Another point, a few years ago I patched up with my sister after we hadnt spoken in nigh on 15 years after the messy divorce of my parents & my mom threw me out (at the behest of her new boyfreind).

My sister was going through a split with her boyfreind whilst pregnant, my wife opted to adopt my sisters baby until she gotten back on her feet, the adoption agency came around to vet us & Donna tried to lie through the interview saying we were the perfect couple (which we wernt)

The agency asked.....

Do you and wayne do a lot of things together? she replied yes.
Do you and wayne go on nights out together? she replied yes, we go out all the time, to which I replied once in 2 years, if thats all the time then yes its true.

and as I told the truth the adoption failed & my wife was really upset, so she bought a puppy to replace the loss and now the dog is all she thinks about.

But to cut a long story short......

If your spouse/significant other no longer had interest in sex, and gave you permission to have sex with someone else, would you?
Which she has BIG TIME!!!!!, I honestly dont know, as these days if she decides she actually wants sex which is hardly ever, and as we only had sex for the first time this year last week & it was over before it started (to which has been the norm for a long time)

I cant satisfy her, let alone another woman, who would have to be absolutely shit-faced with drink & id probably have to pay her a lot of money too, so again I dont know.

If you lost interest in sex, could you give your spouse/significant other permission to have sex with someone else? Would it be selfish not to?
TBH, I would let her without a doubt & in our nearly 20 year marriage ive never stopped her from doing anything she wants to do, even though I was under her thumb for 18 years having to ask for her permission to do anything.

If your spouse significant other gave you permission to sleep with one celebrity, who would it be?

Amy Dumas or Angelina Jolie