Icon Vs. Icon: Sting Vs. HBK

[Monkey_Mania]

There has been a lot of discussion lately on whether HBK is better or Sting is better. While HBK is an Icon he just pales in comparison to Sting. Whether it be crowd reactions or drawing ability. Sting is better than Shawn Michaels. Sting was by far the most popular star of the early 90's right up until Austin and Goldberg got white hot. He toppled Hulk Hogan in a fued that was one of the best I've ever seen. Even if it did culminate in a match that should have been ten times better. A 9 time WCW champion when the belt meant something. And he battled Flair in many classic encounters. Sting is The Man, The Myth, The Legend, and an ICON.


For right now I will leave it at that. Lets have some good discussion and debate here guys.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'm going to have to go with the Stinger. Don't get me wrong at all, I could watch Shawn go all day, but Sting to me was something special. Without knowning any numbers at all, Sting seemed like a bigger draw to me than anyone other than Flair in pre-Hogan WCW. During his times on top, Sting had some of the greatest rivalries ever in WCW. Michaels has had his rivalries, but it always seemed that he was a transitional champion save for his first title reign. He's been a great worker his entire career and the fact that he's still going strong today is a testamnet to him. I still have to go with Sting here though. Athletically, charismatically, physically they're equal, their resumes are among the best of all time, but Sting always seemed like the bigger draw, so I'll have to go with him.

 

[FOTH 3:16]

I would have to say both of them but in different categories.

Sting wins in the category of biggest draw/money maker.Sting was a promoter's dream becvause he got a big pop every time he showed up in the arena.He had good buyrates and draws all the time.He was a tremendous draw and made a lotta money for WCW.

HBK has the better in-ring ability.He is one of the best in-ring workers ever.Even though there are others better than him in-ring,Shawn can still put on a great show and knows more moves than many,if not all,of the superstars on the WWE roster active today.

But because I am more attracted to in-ring ability than draw or money-making,HBK gets my vote.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Shawn is better than Sting, in every way. I can't think of one way in which people can argue Sting was a better wrestler than Shawn Michaels apart from their own entertainment views.

Sting is a good wrestler, no one will deny that. However comparing him to Shawn Michaels, in all categories isn't right. Shawn is a better athlete, a bigger draw, and more entertaining. He has something special, which has meant in the 16 years he's been wrestling fans have not got bored of him.

He's wrestled in some of the biggest matches, and has done things few others have. He beat Undertaker in a Hell in the cell match for a start, that match in itself should be called "the Undertaker". As well as winning the first ever Elimiation Chamber. Shawn has so much he could easily be remembered for, and will always be remembered as one of the greatest.

Sting on the other hand is nothing compared to him. As I said above, he is good but he's also overrated. He isn't one of the best their ever was. Shawn is.

 

[Shocky]

I like both, but I take Sting in this one. Sting was the number one guy in the number two promotion, but still kept WCW credible with his presence. Sting was a dream come true for WCW. They were looking for a flamboyant, charismatic star to call there own, and they got a guy that looked like the Warrior but could wrestle.

Shawn Michaels is amazing. His original Sexy Boy heel run from 92-95 was probably his best work, in my opinion, but he was fan fucking tastic. But Michaels simply didn't work as a young face. Michaels played a fantastic heel in DX and as the Sexy Boy, but is very so-so as a face.

I think a potential feud of Sexy Boy Michaels and the Surfer Sting would have been amazing. When it comes down to it, who would have been the bigger star if the roles were reversed.

Shawn Michaels, in my opinion, would have been lost in the endless amount of mid card talent that WCW had. Michaels would never have broken out of that mid card scene. WCW would have been a death trap for Shawn Michaels.

Sting on the other hand would have been a mega star in WWE. I whole heartedly believe that. He has great match capability, charisma, mic skill, and a unique look that would have kept him over for a long time. Sting has managed to become one of the biggest names in the history of the business, all that without the help of Vince McMahon. I think Shawn Michaels fans make him out to be a bigger name then what he actually is. Michaels is great, but I don't think his legacy will be that of Stings.

 

[BooCocky]

People that say Shawn is the best there is is full of crap imo. Sting could draw, something HBK couldnt do real well. Sting sold merchandise and was good at it. I believe he was second behind SCSA in merchandise sales for many years.

Sting helped WCW stay afloat, and was really good at what he does. Sting was charismatic, was a good worker, and a real well talker. IMO he played both heel and face real well. HBK was never really good at that.

Because drawing fans to the arena is the most important thing in professional wrestling, i give the edge to Sting.

 

[mattitude2007]

Going to have to go with Sting for all the reasons stated already. Basically a mix of star power at his peak and being a solid worker (even to this day).

HOWEVER....because Sting never worked with Vince he might be harder to remember for relatively newer fans who are more familiar with the WWE than they were of WCW.

Though if Sting did work with Vince after WCW went under I have no doubt that Sting would have been on top. Basically the whole WCW audience would have followed him.

Sting > HBK.

 

[Saiquan]

People that say Shawn is the best there is is full of crap imo. Sting could draw, something HBK couldnt do real well. Sting sold merchandise and was good at it. I believe he was second behind SCSA in merchandise sales for many years.

Sting helped WCW stay afloat, and was really good at what he does. Sting was charismatic, was a good worker, and a real well talker. IMO he played both heel and face real well. HBK was never really good at that.

Because drawing fans to the arena is the most important thing in professional wrestling, i give the edge to Sting.

While you said Sting won the WCW title in front of 5000 people at superbrawl while HBK won in front of 18,853 people at Mania 12. Shawn was drawing 16,000 strong at arena's while Sting was wrestling in front of 7,000 maybe 10,000 people.

In that case i would have to go with Shawn. While Sting is a hell of a wrestler Shawn has got an edge over him.

Starrcade 1997-17,500 people : Sting vs Hogan. This was an alright match but Sting couldn't carry Hogan for crap

Summerslam 2005-18,156 people: Shawn vs Hogan. It wasn't shawns best match but it sure as hell was Hogans best match. Plus Starrcade is suppose to be wrestlemania. Shouldn't they draw more.

 

[Kyphael]

Considering Sting is a Crow rip-off/wannabe, I'll go with Shawn Michaels, a character/performer who has had substance as a person, and developed as a wrestler, in and out of the ring. Sting bores me, he's bland and his in-ring work is nowhere near the level of Shawn Michaels'. Sure, I won't deny his success and intensity, but his gimmick has never appealed to me, much like his in-ring work. I think the only reason people want this match so bad is because they're two of the biggest stars from the 90's to never meet, since Sting is the only WCW home-grown talent to never sign with the WWE. In a way, it was smart by Sting, had he signed years ago, he might have become as irrelevant as Goldberg and Scott Steiner now are, so there's still that mystique to the character.

 

[Slim Pickns]

I would have to say both of them but in different categories.

Sting wins in the category of biggest draw/money maker.Sting was a promoter's dream becvause he got a big pop every time he showed up in the arena.

HBK has the better in-ring ability.He is one of the best in-ring workers ever.

I hate this argument and all HBK fans use it. He couldn't draw but he has such great "in ring ability" that it makes him better than all those who drew more than him. By in ring ability it, you mean he can wrestle a technical match and through in a few high flying moves. You know who could do that and draw huge numbers? I'll tell you, his name is Bret Hart, and for some reason, most one here hate him.

Summerslam 2005-18,156 people: Shawn vs Hogan. It wasn't shawns best match but it sure as hell was Hogans best match. Plus Starrcade is suppose to be wrestlemania. Shouldn't they draw more.

Actually, I hate this statement more than the other one. I have heard this statement so many times and its still just as barf inducing. Summerslam vs HBK was not Hogan's best match. It was a pretty good one (and I'll give HBK credit too) but it wasn't his best. Hogan vs Savage was far superior, as were his matches with Warrior, Slaughter, and any tag match with Savage. Hulk Hogan had more charisma in his pinky than HBK has total.

Its hard to say who's the bigger ICON because niether one stepped in each others territory. I'd have to say Sting simply because outside the internet, HBK isn't nearly as big as people seem to think he is.

 

[Davi323]

I am going to go with Shawn Michaels, for one simple reason. Durability. When HBK gets injured, and he comes back, he comes back better than ever...when Sting got hurt, he came back a shell of his former self. Ever wonder why "Crow" Sting wore the body suit, when previously, he went completely shirtless? Because Steve Borden didn't have the same commitment to rehab as HBK does, and came back out of shape, and needed to hide his belly. You never had to worry about Shawn Michaels ever being out of shape. Even with a busted knee, a broken back, he still gave wrestling his all...You can't say that about Sting. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy...but, Being known as Mr. Starrcade isn't quite the same as being Mr. Wrestlemania.

 

[Trumike]

I am going to take Shawn Michaels on this one. Now Sting is a true icon in the history of this business. He is a multiple time champion. He has always drawn huge pops in arenas. But so does Shawn Michaels. He is a better wrestler. He never had to wrestle using the same exact moves in every single match. He made a better heel and was just as loved as a fan favorite. Sting is being talked about as being one of the reasons WCW was around so long. Without the NWO starting and Sting and Hogan having that feud, WCW would have folded long before it did. That was with Sting as the number 1 guy. In the WWE Michaels has feuded with all the top stars and stayed near the top to this day. He can still put on great matches. Shawn is better.

 

[Slim Pickns]

I am going to go with Shawn Michaels, for one simple reason. Durability. When HBK gets injured, and he comes back, he comes back better than ever...when Sting got hurt, he came back a shell of his former self. Ever wonder why "Crow" Sting wore the body suit, when previously, he went completely shirtless? Because Steve Borden didn't have the same commitment to rehab as HBK does, and came back out of shape, and needed to hide his belly. You never had to worry about Shawn Michaels ever being out of shape. Even with a busted knee, a broken back, he still gave wrestling his all...You can't say that about Sting. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy...but, Being known as Mr. Starrcade isn't quite the same as being Mr. Wrestlemania.

I'm calling BS on this one as well. Sting had a far better physique than HBK, just because he didn't keep his 270 pound frame his whole career doesn't mean he came back out of shape, he was just slimmer. The attire change came with the character. Stings speed and agility nearly matches HBK's while HBK's power doesn't come anywhere near the Stinger's. I fail to see where Sting "didn't give his all." Just because Michaels was constantly injured and making a comeback, doesn't mean he has more heart than the ones who didn't get injured.

Shawn dubbed himself Mr Wrestlemania, if the fans had there choice, it would be Hogan. Hogan single handedly sold the first eight Wrestlemania's (one could argue Savage and Flair sold 8) as the main event. It never mattered who he faced, the fans flocked to see him. Even at Mania IV with the title tournament he was advertised with Andre as the big attraction. No matter who the WWF tried to put in his place (Flair, Savage, Warrior) Hogan somehow found his way into the spotlight at Mania.

 

[mattropolis]

i don't really agree with the argument that HBK is some kind of technical master and this puts him over Sting. But regardless of wrestling ability the question was about "icon" and it's certainly Sting. The biggest star not to work under the tyrant, TNA might have some crrrrazy ideas but they're just calling it like it is when they call him the icon.
But slight point loss for bias granted as i really really hate shawn michaels.

 

[Slim Pickns]

I am going to take Shawn Michaels on this one. Now Sting is a true icon in the history of this business. He is a multiple time champion. He has always drawn huge pops in arenas. But so does Shawn Michaels. He is a better wrestler. He never had to wrestle using the same exact moves in every single match. He made a better heel and was just as loved as a fan favorite. Sting is being talked about as being one of the reasons WCW was around so long. Without the NWO starting and Sting and Hogan having that feud, WCW would have folded long before it did. That was with Sting as the number 1 guy. In the WWE Michaels has feuded with all the top stars and stayed near the top to this day. He can still put on great matches. Shawn is better.

Another scewed HBK stat. The WWF was on its death bed with HBK as the lead man in 96. WWF ratings were at there lowest and didn't come back up until (oh no kilqsters) Bret Hart came back and fueded with Austin. With that in mind, were any of HBK's title reigns good? To my knowledge they were all lackluster.

Sting had great title runs in the early and late 90's. His title feud with Hogan was huge even after the first match ending was botched to hell and back. Sting was also always willing to put the belt on the next big guy coming up or back on the same heel he took it from if it meant the right thing for the company. Shawn has forfeited more titles than anyone ever because he was never willing to put anyone over.

 

[jtbsoon2b]

I'm calling BS on this one as well. Sting had a far better physique than HBK, just because he didn't keep his 270 pound frame his whole career doesn't mean he came back out of shape, he was just slimmer. The attire change came with the character. Stings speed and agility nearly matches HBK's while HBK's power doesn't come anywhere near the Stinger's. I fail to see where Sting "didn't give his all." Just because Michaels was constantly injured and making a comeback, doesn't mean he has more heart than the ones who didn't get injured.

Shawn dubbed himself Mr Wrestlemania, if the fans had there choice, it would be Hogan. Hogan single handedly sold the first eight Wrestlemania's (one could argue Savage and Flair sold 8) as the main event. It never mattered who he faced, the fans flocked to see him. Even at Mania IV with the title tournament he was advertised with Andre as the big attraction. No matter who the WWF tried to put in his place (Flair, Savage, Warrior) Hogan somehow found his way into the spotlight at Mania.

Can you really argue about HBK being Mr. Wrestlemaina
the man has had more Match of the Year contests (and top 3 runner-up) than Sting has EVER had!!!
If you are going simply by drawing in numbers than HBK is still THE MAN
Look at Royal Rumble (I believe it was '95 but dont quote me on that) the WWE sold-out the frickin' Alamo Dome for a ppv OTHER THAN WrestleMaina
can Sting say that
(and dont even try to say he sold-out the Georgia Dome for Nitro, that was ALL Goldberg and the fact it was in Atlanta (where WCW operated))


HBK IS A WRESTLING GOD!!!!!!!!

 

[Slim Pickns]

Can you really argue about HBK being Mr. Wrestlemaina

I already did.

the man has had more Match of the Year contests (and top 3 runner-up) than Sting has EVER had!!!

Another one of my biggest gripes on this forum. People quote PWI when pointing out Shawn's match of the year canidates, then debunk the publishing when it names Bret Hart the fourth best pro wrestler of all time behind only Andre, Hogan, and Flair. Make up your mind. If you are going to use it as an argument for HBK having multiple MOTY canidates, then you have to admit that Bret Hart is better overall because PWI says so. Point being Sting not having PWI match of the year means nothing.

If you are going simply by drawing in numbers than HBK is still THE MAN
Look at Royal Rumble (I believe it was '95 but dont quote me on that) the WWE sold-out the frickin' Alamo Dome for a ppv OTHER THAN WrestleMaina
can Sting say that
(and dont even try to say he sold-out the Georgia Dome for Nitro, that was ALL Goldberg and the fact it was in Atlanta (where WCW operated))

The Royal Rumble always sells out, always, no matter who is there. Its one of the WWE's biggest PPV's. That argument is null and void. Sting has filled plenty of areans. I do like how you are only using one example and one stadium to prove Michaels drawing power, when Michaels was the worst drawing WWF champion not named Diesel. The WWF was falling apart under his reign because he couldn't draw crowds.

HBK IS A WRESTLING GOD!!!!!!!!

Only on internet forums.

 

[Shocky]

Ironically, did it ever cross your mind that Sting was drawing in WCW because he was feuding with the likes of established mega stars such as Hogan and Flair?

Yet when HBK was given the ball to run on his own in 1996, it was the lowest drawing and lowest rated period in the history of the show??? Sting didn't have to wrestle for an entire year, and was still a bigger star then Shawn Michaels during 1997.

When push came to shove, once again when HBK was champion in 1997 after he screwed Bret, the build up for Hogan vs. Sting nearly crippled and put the WWE out of business, all while Shawn Michaels was the man in charge.

Sting is a career main eventer and a legit person to be named the franchise of a major company. Shawn Michaels has had one, count them, one good run as the man in a company, and it failed miserably. Shawn Michaels is damn good, but he's nothing more then a career upper mid card wrestler.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Royal Rumble 95 was in the sun dome, in Tampa Florida, which has a capacity of roughly 16,000. The one that was held in the Alamo Dome featured HBK Vs Phsyco Sid for the world title. San Antonio is HBK's hometown. If the ROYAL RUMBLE cant sell out with the hometown boy going for the gold. the WWE is in a sad state. That proves nothing of any kind of drawing ability from HBK, and is a fairly ridiculous example.

 

[dmill]

did sting ever draw 80,000 like shawn and cena. Anyone who says Shawn isn't top 1 through 3 of all time doesn't know what there looking at. Sting was biggest draw when he wasn't even wrestling and he when he came back to the ring all the hype was gone and the story died very quickly because let's face it no main event star in WCW at that time could work other than Flair because of ablility or choice(Hogan, Hall, Nash, Goldberg, Piper, Macho, and Sting. Also Sting could never be a heel and when they tried he bombed.

 

[Shocky]

did sting ever draw 80,000 like shawn and cena. Anyone who says Shawn isn't top 1 through 3 of all time doesn't know what there looking at. Sting was biggest draw when he wasn't even wrestling and he when he came back to the ring all the hype was gone and the story died very quickly because let's face it no main event star in WCW at that time could work other than Flair because of ablility or choice(Hogan, Hall, Nash, Goldberg, Piper, Macho, and Sting. Also Sting could never be a heel and when they tried he bombed.

And how the hell do you give credit to the draw at Mania 23 to Cena and Michaels. Since WM 19, it's impossible to give just one match credit for drawing because there are, lets count, two world champions in the company, and no one knows what the main event of the show is going to be from year to year. To give credit to Cena and Michaels is ridiculous, when as much credit can be given to Batista and the Undertaker, or you know, that match that was hyped all throughout the media with Trump and McMahon, and Austin involved. Giving credit to Michaels is just pure blind fanboyism.

 

[dmill]

was that not the main event of the show? being hyped on the flagship program of WWE. Whatever belt is on RAW is the main belt and the main championship of the company. obviously there are other factors going into creating as much buzz as possible but Wrestlemania is about one on one for the WWE Title and that fued was the best I've seen from HBK in a while and that match brought Cena to higher level than ever before

 

[Shocky]

So with that logic, would the Undertaker and Edge be given credit for attracting 75,000 people to this years Wrestlemania? It wasn't the Raw Championship, and it was being hyped on the flagship show, yet it was still the main event of professional wrestling.

Wrestling took a turn about 6 years ago, and Wrestlemania sells itself, regardless of who is main eventing it. To give credit to any one guy, or one match since Wrestlemania 19 simpy can't be done. Wrestlemania sells itself at this point, not the wrestlers.

 

[Slim Pickns]

did sting ever draw 80,000 like shawn and cena. Anyone who says Shawn isn't top 1 through 3 of all time doesn't know what there looking at. Sting was biggest draw when he wasn't even wrestling and he when he came back to the ring all the hype was gone and the story died very quickly because let's face it no main event star in WCW at that time could work other than Flair because of ablility or choice(Hogan, Hall, Nash, Goldberg, Piper, Macho, and Sting. Also Sting could never be a heel and when they tried he bombed.

Let me guess, the night where Shawn carried Cena to a great match? Yeah, we've heard all the BS before. Bottom Line is it was at Wrestlemania and the match featured the top draw in the company, John Cena. Also, on the card was the heavily hyped Vince vs Trump which was called the biggest drawing match of the year. To give all the credit to Michaels is criminal. I suppose you think everyone bought Mania 23 because they knew Shawn would put on a five star match according to PWI. The only reason people believe HBK is the best ever is because a few WWE DVD's told them so.

Sting didn't get over as a heel not because he can't play one, he didn't get over because at that point in his career, the fans flat out refused to boo him. They were emotionally invested in the Sting character and it was their way of telling WCW that they did not want him as a heel. It was pretty amazing to witness while it happened.

 

[dmill]

I suppose you think everyone bought Mania 23 because they knew Shawn would put on a five star match according to PWI.


Yeah that is why I bought it, and it delivered in every way. Let me know when Sting had a 4 or 5 star match with someone other than proven workers with a good in ring reputation.