How Does The IWC View The Diva's Division?

[amazing_blue]

Earlier this month, I created a thread here suggesting that the diva's division should be built around Rosa Mendes, and for the most part you guys had negative opinions of Rosa. A recurring theme in the thread were people saying that only women like Kharma, Beth Phoenix and Tamina were worth building the division around. This has led me to make this thread, where I will try to understand the views that you guys hold about this division.

1. Why do people want the diva's division to revolve around serious female wrestling? The last time I checked, the WWE began using the term "diva" during the late '90s to desribe women who were feirce, feisty and sexy. Women like Sable, Ivory, Tori and Jazz had little to do with technical wrestling ability and all to do with attitude. Much like Hell in a Cell, the divas are something that began suffering an identidy crisis when the PG era began.

2. What is the fascination with Kharma? Not to sound sexist, but I thought the point of divas were to give our eyes a break from hulking beasts.

3. Why do so many people in the IWC take a stand against bra & panties matches pudding matches, mud matches and bikini contests? These are the things that had men popping for the divas for many years.

Thanks to anyone who answers these questions and gives their thoughts.

 

[#hamler]

1. Why do people want the diva's division to revolve around serious female wrestling?

Well, wrestling. World Wrestling Entertainment. If there are male wrestlers, why shouldn't there be females?

2. What is the fascination with Kharma?

She's big, scary and not your average diva. When you line up 20 Pepsi cans, and there is one Pepsi 20oz., you're going to notice.

3. Why do so many people in the IWC take a stand against bra & panties matches pudding matches, mud matches and bikini contests?

Again, wrestling. Since the males are given a fair chance to show off their talents in and out of the ring, why shouldn't females?

 

[Defekt]

1. Why do people want the diva's division to revolve around serious female wrestling? The last time I checked, the WWE began using the term "diva" during the late '90s to desribe women who were feirce, feisty and sexy. Women like Sable, Ivory, Tori and Jazz had little to do with technical wrestling ability and all to do with attitude. Much like Hell in a Cell, the divas are something that began suffering an identidy crisis when the PG era began.

I don't think the two have to be mutually exclusive. Look at the TNA Knockouts. Mickie James, Tara, Madison, Gail Kim, etc. They are all gorgeous, but also put on good matches.

2. What is the fascination with Kharma? Not to sound sexist, but I thought the point of divas were to give our eyes a break from hulking beasts.

She's different so she got noticed, same as Chyna did back in the day. The WWE divas all look (and fight) like Playboy models. Kharma looks like someone nobody would mess with.

3. Why do so many people in the IWC take a stand against bra & panties matches pudding matches, mud matches and bikini contests? These are the things that had men popping for the divas for many years.

I don't take a stand against those matches. In fact, I'm a big fan of them. Too bad they've all gone away.

 

[Darkshot77]

1. Why do people want the diva's division to revolve around serious female wrestling?

Why? Because that is what the WWE has designed it for. They have a title, the title is won by wrestling, and not by any other way. If there was not title and nothing for the Divas to wrestle for then it would not have to revolve around wrestling. But when the WWE gives them a prize for winning wrestling matches. That is what it becomes about.

Ultimately the WWE is in the business of entertainment. They way they do that is up to them. If they want a lingerie contest or a swimsuit dance off, fine. People will be entertained. But when they bring two Divas to the ring and ring the bell, they are signifying that a WRESTLING match has started. In a wrestling match, it is the wrestling that should be the focus, not the bodies. Now when 2 divas get into the ring I am not expecting Flair/Steamboat. But I am expecting the match not not be so cringe-worthy that I change the channel. So if they are putting Divas in WRESTLING matches and they are competing for a WRESTING title then wrestling is what it should be all about.

The Problem:
The WWE is pushing women as wrestlers who should not be because they can not entertain in a wrestling match who. There are women on the WWE roster that we know are good at wrestling, Beth, Natalya, Tamina and Eve. But who are constantly in the match The Bellas and Kelly Kelly, who can not entertain in the ring. The WWE has designed a division that is in theory to show beautiful women wrestle. But the women who get pushed are those who only have beauty. The Wrestling part has been lost.

The Solution:
The WWE needs to divide their women, Female wrestlers, and valets. Some women have the talent to be very good looking and good in the ring, case in point Eve Torres. Some women make great eye candy, but are terrible in the ring, they should be used as valets. Rosa Mendes has done her best work as the valet to Primo and Epico. She has received more TV time had has gotten a better reaction than she ever had wrestling. Remember some women do not need to wrestle to become famous. One of the most famous women in the WWE was Miss Elizabeth, who may have never wrestled a match. She never had to. The WWE needs to realize that all some women will be good for; Kelly, Rosa, the Bellas, Alicia Fox, is arm candy. They needs to leave the wrestling to women who can entertain in the ring as wrestlers.

 

[Trill Co$by]

Jazz had little to do with technical wrestling ability and all to do with attitude.

That comment alone makes your post worthless. To claim that JAZZ of all people was not technical in the ring just proves why most of the "IWC" finds women's wrestling a joke. Jazz is without a doubt one of the most technically sound and physically dominant competitors in WWE and wrestling history alike. She's got such a prowess about her that the people who watch her KNOW she's worth the money.

Also, as Darkshot mentioned, in a WRESTLING company where the name of the game is to WRESTLE for the title... it's pretty obvious that the best WRESTLER should be used to build a WRESTLING title, whether they're divas or male stars. Is that saying that WWE has to stop using beautiful women? Not at all. Women CAN be beautiful and great wrestlers. Madison Rayne is one hot tomato and is in my opinion the best in-ring competitor in mainstream wrestling.

Suggesting that the Diva's title be put around the waist of someone as terrible at wrestling as Rosa would just prove that they have no respect for the division. Rosa gets credit where it's do, as a MANAGER. Handing a manager a title is like handing Skip Bayless a quarterback position for any football team.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

1. Why do people want the diva's division to revolve around serious female wrestling? The last time I checked, the WWE began using the term "diva" during the late '90s to desribe women who were feirce, feisty and sexy. Women like Sable, Ivory, Tori and Jazz had little to do with technical wrestling ability and all to do with attitude. Much like Hell in a Cell, the divas are something that began suffering an identidy crisis when the PG era began.

They started using the term "Diva" during around 2003 to 2004 I think. But back to your question, I am not asking for super technical wrestling from the divas cuz, heck, even McMahon does not ask from the male counterparts. However, if a diva has charisma, in ring skills, and/or mic skills she should be one of the top divas to showcase her ability.

Problem with the divas division there is a diffrent standard. Mic Skills, Charisma, and inring skills all take a backstep if you are an affection in Vince's eyes. It's well documentented that Vince McMahon is sort of a "pig" I believe Vince was accused of harrassment in a restaurant and in one of Jim Corrnette's shoot he mentioned how he was obsessed with Sable and how he fantasised in taking off her clothes during meetings.

As a result we have Sable as the Women's Champion reigning her division, and same goes for Trish Stratus (who won her first championship when her matches were awful, she could not cut a promo, but could stand there to look pretty) and Kelly Kelly.

I wouldn't be suprised that they got pushed because Vince has some sexual fantasy over them. Does anyone think that his angle with Linda and having an affair with Trish Stratus was greenlit because Vince does have that fantasy of getting it on with Trish?

Anyways back to my point. In the end there's a double standad women wrestlers in the WWE have to face. A lot of it has to do with how Vince precieves them in terms of their looks and this needs to stop. The less of that its possible we can have the better divas getting pushes.

2. What is the fascination with Kharma? Not to sound sexist, but I thought the point of divas were to give our eyes a break from hulking beasts.

She was a beast in TNA, and its a refreshing take seeing a monster in the diva's division. Plus taking it from a fan's standpoint if we see Eve vs. Brie Bella in a match there's no incentive to cheer for Eve. But you put Eve vs. Kharma in a match, you are going to see fans cheer for the baby face againts a monster heel. It's a classic face vs. monster heel role.

I also would like to challenge some people here. A lot of them do have an obsession with Beth, Kharma, Natalya, and Tamina. While some are indeed good, others like Natlaya has been no better or worse than Eve, Michelle McCool, Gail Kim or the recent divas. I do feel there is a subconcious in fans that if they see a diva who is not your average diva they would automatically say "great wrestler". In reality that is not the case. Great example is Aliosa (that 6ft who was supposed to be in NXT), a lot of people were saying how awsome she is but in reality, based on reports, she's below average in the ring.

3. Why do so many people in the IWC take a stand against bra & panties matches pudding matches, mud matches and bikini contests? These are the things that had men popping for the divas for many years.

Because they are stupid and they aren't even sexy.

It's also deemening to the women, If they are so entertaining why not have Cena vs. The Rock at WM28 be a Pudding Match?

See there you go its humiliating for Cena and The Rock so why should the women have to go through it.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

1. Why do people want the diva's division to revolve around serious female wrestling? The last time I checked, the WWE began using the term "diva" during the late '90s to desribe women who were feirce, feisty and sexy. Women like Sable, Ivory, Tori and Jazz had little to do with technical wrestling ability and all to do with attitude. Much like Hell in a Cell, the divas are something that began suffering an identidy crisis when the PG era began.

We watch WWE to see wrestling. If that means that women have to wrestle that by all means necessary at least make it entertaining. I can give ANYONE regardless of gender the chance to entertain me, sadly most Divas do not.

2. What is the fascination with Kharma? Not to sound sexist, but I thought the point of divas were to give our eyes a break from hulking beasts.

She is far more entertaining to watch than the other Divas.

Her simple presence evokes at least some sort of emotion of feeling out of you. Her in ring performances helps with that as well as she sells the character. I am not in anyway intrigued when Kelly Kelly or Eve walk down the ring because they are uninteresting.

You don't have to be big, you have to be interesting.

3. Why do so many people in the IWC take a stand against bra & panties matches pudding matches, mud matches and bikini contests? These are the things that had men popping for the divas for many years.

Withing 10 seconds of a Google search you can get this, and more cleavage.

Once again this is wrestling, if I wanted to see this stuff even more uncensored than how WWE would do it than refer to what I said above. There is nothing that these matches do except waste time.

In the end I can say that Women's wrestling will always be inferior to men's in importance which is why you see less effort with the Divas.

 

[SlamFan]

Well why do people expect the men's division to revolve around serious male wrestlers? Rosa is great as a manager and pretty & that trio is a great pairing, but building the division around girls who are "attractive" as opposed to the women who can wrestle is a crap idea.
Just because wrestling is a male dominated sport, doesn't mean women cant be taken seriously either. Ivory & Jazz were/are great women's wrestlers, especially compared to a lot of the ladies today.

The fascination with Kharma is that she is different and a good wrestler. It's women like her, Beth, Natalya and Tamina that are different that make the division. Apparently they are not "pretty" like the others, but I think they are gorgeous & would rather watch them then most of the divas on the roster.

Bra & Pantie matches and types like that were brought in when fans didn't take the women seriously...... If the ladies on the roster are up for those matches then good for them.

One of the things that brings the women in wwe down, is that terrible Divas belt. The Divas in fcw have a better belt than the main roster women. A gay butterfly does crap all for the division, as does pushing the "pretty" girls who cant wrestle for crap.

Wwe needs to put their act together & either bring back the Women's champion ship (because why cant the divas have more than one belt?) or start properly using the talented wrestling women.

 

[jungledeano]

Well, I can't answer your questions, but I think I can still answer your thread. I don't watch any of the 'divas' or 'knockouts' wrestling on either promotion. Frankly, because it's not that great. I usually fast forward through, or use the time their on to go and get a drink, etc. I don't mean it in a sexist way, but I just don't find women's wrestling to be as good as men's wrestling. It's by no fault of the women wrestling on the programmes, but it's the lack of care either promotion puts into their women's divisions. I'm just not interested in two minute matches that have no storyline revolving round them.

 

[sephx42]

Youtube matches with Lita, Chyna, Mickie James, Gail Kim, and even outside the WWE, Ms Chif (that chick is amazing, how she's not being developed is beyond me). I grew up with Alundra Blaze and Chyna thinking 'Yeah, these girls can bring it, I can watch this', which was successful enough to make Chyna a believable IC champ.

Why do I hate bra and panties matches and other gimmicky BS? Because I'm not 13 and making the pages of a Victoria's Secret catalog stick together, that's why. If I want T&A, i'll flip over to Skinemax. If I want porn, I have a computer. If I want wrestling, I watch WWE. Those bikini contests are plain stupid, they chew TV time, and you're basically forcing viewers at home to stare at these women as objects until the most over female gets a big pop for showing the most skin, which is then followed by a poorly done brawl.

If the PG era taught us anything, its that ****s have no place in WWE. So why are they now paying models to put on terrible 2-minute matches? The model they had doesn't work, the model they have doesn't work...I can't believe I'm saying this, but maybe if they took a page from TNA they might actually get it right.

 

[Bernkastel]

Not to consistently beat a dead horse or anything, but the concept that some people like to call "wrestling" is the same thing as entertaining in the wrestling business. Women's wrestling has never been a major draw in the pro wrestling world. Moolah proved that her name value, and the name value of her competitors, could not compete with guys like Hogan or Flair.

It wasn't until the women like Sable, Trish, Lita, and Stephanie came onto the scene that women's pro wrestling started to draw big numbers. It was simply because these women were entertaining, and people wanted to see them in some fashion.

To answer the first point, the reason why the Diva's division sucks now is because they lost the two biggest stars they ever had at the same time, and to this day they haven't found anyone adequate enough to replace them. And that brings me to the next point, Kharma.

Kharma is the sole reason why the Knockouts divsion enjoyed the success that it did. Gail Kim is terrible, as evident in pretty much every match she's had excluding Kong. Victoria was the same way when it came to Trish. Mickie James is decent, but she's hardly the same caliber of Trish or Lita, and Kharma is loads more entertaining.

Kharma is fantasic playing her role as a true monster heel, in that she can make any opponent look good, no matter how bad they are. She's the only other person other than Trish to actually get a solid match out of someone as green as Christy Hemme. That speaks volumes to her ability. I really do think that Kharma has the ability to make the Divas divsion relevant once more, to make it stand out the way that Trish and Lita did.

Regarding the third point; the bra and panty, pudding, and sexy matches were the women's division equivalent of the men's hardcore division, which the lackluster male wrestlers completed in because they had to relay on shock value to pop the crowd because they weren't talented to do so on their own. It was the same thing with the women. You rarely saw women like Trish or Lita partaking in those sorts of matches after 2001 unless it served some sort of storyline purpose.

 

[Honkey_Kong]

Earlier this month, I created a thread here suggesting that the diva's division should be built around Rosa Mendes, and for the most part you guys had negative opinions of Rosa. A recurring theme in the thread were people saying that only women like Kharma, Beth Phoenix and Tamina were worth building the division around. This has led me to make this thread, where I will try to understand the views that you guys hold about this division.

1. Why do people want the diva's division to revolve around serious female wrestling? The last time I checked, the WWE began using the term "diva" during the late '90s to desribe women who were feirce, feisty and sexy. Women like Sable, Ivory, Tori and Jazz had little to do with technical wrestling ability and all to do with attitude. Much like Hell in a Cell, the divas are something that began suffering an identidy crisis when the PG era began.

2. What is the fascination with Kharma? Not to sound sexist, but I thought the point of divas were to give our eyes a break from hulking beasts.

3. Why do so many people in the IWC take a stand against bra & panties matches pudding matches, mud matches and bikini contests? These are the things that had men popping for the divas for many years.

Thanks to anyone who answers these questions and gives their thoughts.

I'm Just hoping Vince allows Rosa to one day do Hustler or Penthouse (something raunchier than Playboy)

But seriously, the Women's division in WWE has never really been anything other than a filler. Which is kind of sad because they have more male talent already than they have spots on the shows for. There have been decent workers in the women's division, but nobody cared. Face it, if Trish Stratus looked like Vickie Guerrero, nobody in the IWC would mark out to her at all.

I don't see what the fascination with Kharma is too. Yeah, she's dominant, but she's fat and ugly. When I want women's wrestling, it's not to satisfy my desire to watch wrestling. It's to satisfy my prurient interests. When I see Kharma there, I'm half tempted to go change the channel.

As far as those smarks in the IWC claiming to be against Bra and Pantie matches, my guess is they're either homo or they're trying to pretend to be wrestling purists. Truth be told, their eyeballs were probably glued to the tube hoping to see a titty pop out every bra and panties match there was.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

I don't see what the fascination with Kharma is too. Yeah, she's dominant, but she's fat and ugly. When I want women's wrestling, it's not to satisfy my desire to watch wrestling. It's to satisfy my prurient interests. When I see Kharma there, I'm half tempted to go change the channel.
.

I guess if she is a heel, there's more of an incentive to hate her ... no? Like I said before we need a great heel so we can cheer for the faces. No diffrent from the Diva's. Does Kharma look scary? Of course she does that's the whole point, having a scary dominant heel like Kharma going up againts divas actually make us want to cheer for the faces more.

As far as those smarks in the IWC claiming to be against Bra and Pantie matches, my guess is they're either homo or they're trying to pretend to be wrestling purists. Truth be told, their eyeballs were probably glued to the tube hoping to see a titty pop out every bra and panties match there was.

I am not a wrestling purist ... and i do like hot women. I don't mind seeing them on TV ... heck I enjoy it as well. So you could say I am one of the people here who defends the divas division.

But I hate Bra and Panty matches, sexy and athletic is one thing (most female athletes have that attribute especially watching Tennis) but skanky is something else. It's such a turn off having matches like Bra and Panties or Mud Wresting Matches and kills any athletic or competitive credibility the divas might have.

 

[MrHashasheen]

As far as those smarks in the IWC claiming to be against Bra and Pantie matches, my guess is they're either homo or they're trying to pretend to be wrestling purists. Truth be told, their eyeballs were probably glued to the tube hoping to see a titty pop out every bra and panties match there was.

Are you thirteen years old and not have a connection to the internet? Or do you not understand the concept of porn on the internet? Because people can easily get their fill of tits and ass on the internet, and they know that. So when they get that in in their wrestling, they're irritated. Because they're not there for that, they're there for the story, the action, the wrestling.

 

[Xumer]

1. Why do people want the diva's division to revolve around serious female wrestling?

We watch wrestling because we like wrestling. I don't watch wrestling because I want to see porn, or golf, or tennis or other things that are not wrestling.

2. What is the fascination with Kharma?

We watch wrestling because we like wrestling. I don't watch wrestling because I want to see porn, or golf, or tennis or other things that are not wrestling. Kharma wrestles and can handle herself in the ring.

3. Why do so many people in the IWC take a stand against bra & panties matches pudding matches, mud matches and bikini contests?

We watch wrestling because we like wrestling. I don't watch wrestling because I want to see porn, or golf, or tennis or other things that are not wrestling.


In summary, I watch wrestling because I like to watch wrestling and the bullshit the "diva division" is putting out isn't that so I don't give a damn about it. Yes most guys like nude women but instead of sitting in front of the tv with a hard on hoping for a nipslip that will somehow get past the censors, we just use the internet to find a sure thing. Getting your rocks off by watching a bra and panties match to me is lame and embarrassing.

 

[Foshinzo]

Earlier this month, I created a thread here suggesting that the diva's division should be built around Rosa Mendes, and for the most part you guys had negative opinions of Rosa. A recurring theme in the thread were people saying that only women like Kharma, Beth Phoenix and Tamina were worth building the division around. This has led me to make this thread, where I will try to understand the views that you guys hold about this division.

1. Why do people want the diva's division to revolve around serious female wrestling? The last time I checked, the WWE began using the term "diva" during the late '90s to desribe women who were feirce, feisty and sexy. Women like Sable, Ivory, Tori and Jazz had little to do with technical wrestling ability and all to do with attitude. Much like Hell in a Cell, the divas are something that began suffering an identidy crisis when the PG era began.

2. What is the fascination with Kharma? Not to sound sexist, but I thought the point of divas were to give our eyes a break from hulking beasts.

3. Why do so many people in the IWC take a stand against bra & panties matches pudding matches, mud matches and bikini contests? These are the things that had men popping for the divas for many years.

Thanks to anyone who answers these questions and gives their thoughts.

I'm not trying to start World War 3, or anything, but your opinion is sexist.

The reason many of us hate the Diva's division is that they're basically glorified strippers. They don't have to take their clothes off, but they do have to pretend like they're more than just eye candy.

Women like Sable were the reason my sister-in-law hated my nephew watching wrestling when he was a kid. More than the blood and more than the language, it was the women.

I remember being a kid and seeing Wendi Richter and then Alundra Blayze in the 90s, and I thought that those women could have beaten up the men, and that's the point. I don't want to see women jiggle; I'll just go to the Internet. I want Divas to be like the males: they're tough.

The Divas today are just catty bimbos, and who wants to have to sit through that? At least if you watch the Jerry Springer Show, the catty bimbos are funny. But, the WWE tries to tell us that they're serious athletes and classy gals. That is just annoying. I want to see tough gals actually get in the ring and have a match that's as entertaining as any match a man could put on. It's possible, because I've seen it. Indie shows have great women's matches all of the time, and Alundra Blayze v Bull Nanako was a good rivalry by men's standards.

They can be pretty, sure. Wendi Richter wasn't ugly, nor are a lot of women that are good wrestlers. Serena wasn't ugly, if you can get past her shaved head, nor is Sara Del Rey ugly. Hell, Beth Phoenix and Kharma aren't ugly, in their own ways. I don't need Kelly Kelly to come out and show that she's pretty, because I'd rather have a woman of average appearance come out and put on a good match than anything Kelly does.

That's what makes me mad about it. They let go women like Gail Kim, whatever happened there, but they push the damn Bella Twins. Obviously, all of the women don't have to be Kharma or Beth Phoenix, just as all the males don't have to be say, the Undertaker or Vader. But, I just want to see a Divas match that I can stand to sit through. Botch fests are embarrassing, that goes for the men, too, and I would just like to not be embarrassed to watch wrestling with my wife. The Divas division is really trashy, lame, and annoying, and the WWE treats it less seriously than we do. That's really why I hate the Divas, today.

 

[thebromm]

Why do you want the Divas Division to revolve around serious female wresling?

Um.... this is wrestling.... not the Dallas Cowboys cheerleading competition. I'm not saying a Diva cant be beautiful... I'm saying its not neccesary. Beth Phoenix and Natalie Neidhart are beautiful women who could most likely make any man tap out. Over the years there have been hundreds of great female wrestler that got over because they were good wrestlers. Not because they were cheerleaders that have no business in a wrestling ring. The WWE women used to be a staple. Not a bathroom break. Now its a bathroom break.

What is the fascination with Kharma?

She's a freakin' monster. Just because she's not "beautiful" compared to like Kelly Kelly and ladies like that does not mean she cant run through the barbie doll Divas like she will when she finally does come back. Someone out there obviously thought she was beautiful.... She havin a baby.... Either that or somebody got really really drunk. Point is, beauty has NOTHING to do with skill.

Why does the IWC have a problem with Bra & Panties matches etc.?

Is that even a serious question? I'm not saying I don't like scantily clad women, but not in todays WWE, thats for sure. Hell, I didnt like that crap when they did it the Attitude Era. If I wanted to see half naked women I'd buy a Playboy or browse the internet, not turn on a wrestling show.