Tributaltion Machine
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Edge-number1 fan said:
People though the same thing about WWE buying WCW AND ECW.
Hogan claims Kurt Angle threatened Vince to release him or....
- Thread starter Mad Metal
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People though the same thing about WWE buying WCW AND ECW.
Kasey
Connoiseur of the MILF
The Three I's? The most important one of these is intelligence. Angle displayed it when he stopped letting Vince dick around with his life and decided to be proactive with his career instead of waiting around for Vince to get a clue that he's sitting on one of the biggest talents the business has ever seen. After Vince screwed Bret he sugar-coated and bullshitted all over. The fact is that he tried to bend Hart over the couch career-wise, and once he tried, it backfired and Hart beat the piss out of him as a result. What's even funnier is that Shane O'Mac had to watch daddy take a couple on the chin. What ECW did the first time was working, until Vince stole away their network slot and had the company shitcanned almost overnight as a result. ECW wasn't doing horribly, but was in fact in the same type of position that TNA is in right now. Vince just used his stroke to pull the rug out from underneath. What happens with Vince's new "ECW" is reduced workrate capacity and the product being a watered-down, banal attempt at milking a dead brand that should've stayed dead. Sure, there are flashes of brilliance every third show, but it's still a pale comparison to the legit rendition of the franchise.BRandonkin said:
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Edge-number1 fan
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but to say Vince is gonna by TNA is impossable since TNA is still part own by NWA and by Pure enegry both
Let me just start off by saying... Who cares what Hogan said... I grew up on that guy and was a Hulk-A-Manaic... He was never a good wrestler but he wasn't a bad one.. He had the look, the chrisma, and the right amounbt of skill to make him the most popular wrestler of all time and that was becasue the WWE knew how to market him in the beginning. Even after he left WWE/F he was still huge in WCW and re-invented himself with the nWo, and then he left wrestling and we all know he came back to WWE for awhile and all that but the one thing about Hogan is he knows how to market himself! See he goes on Bubba The Love Sponges Show and says all this stuff! Why... Simple, he was promoteing his SHOW, and his daughters ALBUM! See he started saying this a I know people out there told there buddies to tune in and listen blah blah and now look at us we are talking about it. Why? Simple, controversy creates cash, Hogan got listened to, promoted his show, and promoted his daughter 'nuff said... Hogan could be lying and if was he was but he accomplished what he wanted and he got listened to.
Now onto Angle... I met this guy before. My step-dad was a huge WWE fan and he was terminally ill with brian cancer for 5 years before he died. Well we had a family friend who wrote the WWE a letter to see if they could do anything for him becasue he was on his last leg... His sight was going, he was losing his ability to talk slowly, and he could no longer walk without help. Well one saturday morning 2 weeks before he died the phone rang at 8 AM... Who was it? Kurt Angle (this was also during a heel run) he called and talked to my step-dad for 30 minutes and at the end of the conversation saying that when the WWE came in 2 weeks there would be 5 tickets waiting for us and we could go backstage to meet him.. Well before this happened my step-dad passed away and never got to meet Angle. But we still went and Angle was a class act, he gave us the shirt off his back and signed it, he signed a book and sat around and talked to us for about an hour and even cried some. He told my mom if we ever need anything to give him a call and she had his cell phone number. It has been 5 years since then and his number has changed but it was the thought that counted and what that man did.. He took time out of his schedule to help other and be a great person! To me Kurt Angle is not the kind of man who would threaten to commit suicide to get out of a contaract, when he used to use the Three I's.. Intensity...Integrity...and Intellgence he as a person is all three, and this would be out of chracter for him to do that. Plus, this guy needs to wrestle a lighter schedule he has his first child on the way and he has numerous injuries and such from amatuer wrestling and pro wrestling that will never heel and who can blame him for wanting to leave WWE, they wrestled him every night and in TNA he won't have to do that and when he isn't taping or doing a house show TNA does every now and then he can go home be the family man he wants to be. So forget what Hogan says, Angle did what was best for his future of his family.
Now onto Angle... I met this guy before. My step-dad was a huge WWE fan and he was terminally ill with brian cancer for 5 years before he died. Well we had a family friend who wrote the WWE a letter to see if they could do anything for him becasue he was on his last leg... His sight was going, he was losing his ability to talk slowly, and he could no longer walk without help. Well one saturday morning 2 weeks before he died the phone rang at 8 AM... Who was it? Kurt Angle (this was also during a heel run) he called and talked to my step-dad for 30 minutes and at the end of the conversation saying that when the WWE came in 2 weeks there would be 5 tickets waiting for us and we could go backstage to meet him.. Well before this happened my step-dad passed away and never got to meet Angle. But we still went and Angle was a class act, he gave us the shirt off his back and signed it, he signed a book and sat around and talked to us for about an hour and even cried some. He told my mom if we ever need anything to give him a call and she had his cell phone number. It has been 5 years since then and his number has changed but it was the thought that counted and what that man did.. He took time out of his schedule to help other and be a great person! To me Kurt Angle is not the kind of man who would threaten to commit suicide to get out of a contaract, when he used to use the Three I's.. Intensity...Integrity...and Intellgence he as a person is all three, and this would be out of chracter for him to do that. Plus, this guy needs to wrestle a lighter schedule he has his first child on the way and he has numerous injuries and such from amatuer wrestling and pro wrestling that will never heel and who can blame him for wanting to leave WWE, they wrestled him every night and in TNA he won't have to do that and when he isn't taping or doing a house show TNA does every now and then he can go home be the family man he wants to be. So forget what Hogan says, Angle did what was best for his future of his family.
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INFERNO
Guest
This could be true. Kurt seemed really bad to me before he left and it is a possibility
AussieHobo
Getting Noticed By Management
Are you serious? Angle was misused? LMFAO, I laugh at your stupidness! For fucksake he was World champion, he was set to win the ECW World title, dude how can you call that misused. TNA are the ones misusing talent at the moment, they have a fucken WCW Legend, who IS WAY past his time as champion when they could be using Styles, Daniels, Joe which TNA have amde but isntead there using superstars that WWE, ECW and WCW made! Angle was NEVER misused while he was in the WWE, NEVER, and I agree with the one of the psoters above, several weeks/months after the release, Angle was saying great things about WWE, but now hes saying bullshit, Angle bit the hand that fed him.
Angle was a great wrestler, and one of my favourite wrestlers, but when he started saying all this shit, I lost LOTS of respect for him and TNA. Will TNA be the future, at the rate they are going, they will be the past.
Angle was a great wrestler, and one of my favourite wrestlers, but when he started saying all this shit, I lost LOTS of respect for him and TNA. Will TNA be the future, at the rate they are going, they will be the past.
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Edge-number1 fan
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AussieHobo said:
LOL you mark are so funny Kurt was never set to win the ECW world title Hell he was never suppose to be on ECW and TNA is it misusing talent they building Joe styles and other wrestling there a different John cena begin WWE champion and edge not that misusing talent.
Angle is a great wrestler if you should lose any respect it should to Vince for give Kurt the pain killers for Killing his wrestler by have them Work EVERY day and most of all for have Cena as champ
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PauLwaLL
Guest
Ok.. The only thing that made some sence in what you just said was "marking out" The rest was all gibberish.. Kurt Angle was supposed to win the ECW Title before they started having problems with him, his injuries, and his addiction to pain killers.
Vince didnt give Kurt pain killers.. That just proves how much knowledge you actually have.. Angle was perscribed to them from previous injuries and aches and pains and developed his addiction by himself..
Vince doesnt have all his workers work everyday.. Thats why there is three different shows, so its a easier work schedule.. Research before you try to make something up and make it seem real.
Kasey
Connoiseur of the MILF
He was a stopgap champion on an aimless show. He was only brought in because he was the only credible heavyweight that could've brought the belt any respect at a moment's notice. Benoit was still on the shelf, and Book was still fishing for a gimmick (and still should be). Batista got hurt so they shipped Angle next door to be the fill-in workhorse. He was used in directionless feuds that pretty much were going nowhere when he was on Raw because Cena couldn't get over if they paid the key male demographic to cheer for him and their storyline was a bust as a result. They should've taken the cue and turned Cena heel and Angle face but you'd have to draw the current creative team a schematic for them to get anything related to wrestling. He was set to win the ECW title. Fantastic. It's like being the smartest kid with down syndrome. The ECW title hasn't had any serious credibility since Rhino wore it. Like I've said in numerous other posts, they sent him there because they knew Angle hated ECW and he loathes that style of working. What a way to use your best worker properly. I'd rather watch an old Jarret or an old Sting sport a world title than a slightly young Batista or a green John Cena, or a boring and usless 500 lb. mistake dragging the name of ECW through the gutter.AussieHobo said:
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Edge-number1 fan
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PauLwaLL said:
You should talk
Everyone knows Vince has been Given wrestler Illgeal drugs For years and ever heard of House show infact there Raw houseshow going on right now Hell there still over in Japan.
Dude do som Research on your own
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Edge-number1 fan
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Kasey said:
I think RVD beat the Big show by dragging the name of ECW through the gutter. and King Booker is better then Booker T everything eles you hit on the spot
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PauLwaLL
Guest
Are you serious? The only illegal drug Vince ever gave out were steroids, not anything else... And I dont know what else your trying to say there? Who was talkin about house shows and Japan?
How long has ECW been around now? 3-4 months? They jus started the show back up.. You cant judge a title after only being brought back for such a short time.. Besides the ECW Title is the only title in the WWE with atleast some presitige as of right now..
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Edge-number1 fan
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PauLwaLL said:
Im saying wrestler (ecw Raw and smackdown have House show everyday infact Raw and smackdown Just got done have their over in Japan)
Kasey
Connoiseur of the MILF
I guess it's all in what you like, but RVD has lost a step since his prime days because he's spent the last several years festering in the WWE style of working. The great majority of the guys he had worked with in the last few years couldn't do chain wrestling if their lives depended on it. Big Show is so pointless and useless except for his El Gigante circus factor. ECW could've been rebuilt on the strength of solid workers and great matches. Vince could've imported international stars and hired qualified indy workers (the one good thing he did was secure CM Punk) and show everyone the true meaning of wrestling. Instead he sent people from his other shows down to ECW to try to "elevate" the product. King Bookah ain't shit anymore. His offense is a couple of notches slower these days and he's not half as high impact as he was from 2003 and before. I was the biggest proponent of Book since 1996, but it sickens me to no end to watch him come down to the ring with his current gimmick wrestling stale matches, and also having to see more of his annoying-ass wife. Any credibility Booker had with me is gone. Randy Savage called from 1990 and wants his "Macho King" gimmick back.Edge-number1 fan said:
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Edge-number1 fan
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Kasey said:
yeah but you can that about RVD too mean here a guy who does drug speed down a high way and blame it on Vince and treat people like crap in the court room mean at least king booker macths arent stale it the people like RVD and Batista and Cena who are.
Mean hell even Tazz and Joe styles had say they wish RVD was fire from WWE for making the ECW brand a joke
Kurt Angle was NEVER misused...the put the title on the man and let him run with it...kurt angle likes to be in constant spotlight that is his problem..hhh is not in the title status right now he UNDERSTANDS how the business works....kurt left cuz he wasnt main eventing like he use to...he took it the wrong way...i love how he can say all these good things when he is released then as soon as he starts signing with tna he badmouths the company that gave him his start...THE COMPANY that made kurt angle who he is today otherwise no one would give a damn about kurt angle...it was reported many times how kurt angle never complained about his injuries and kept them to himself...there is his problem kurt angle has to big of an EGO and too much pride to admit that he is a human...as far as the illegal drug incident...vince never forced drugs into anyone...they are human beings and all have mind and the concept of choice...they could easily say no and if vince fired them they could easily sue his ass for doing so....get over it people kurt angle refused to play the game because he wanted to be constantly on top...TNA is an ok brand but they have YEARS if even that to compare to what wwe has and created....i doubt they will pass wwe EVER...wwe has put a mark into history with their business...they have bought out companies and destoryed others their is no comparing to them...they are at their peek dnt compare TNA which includes old superstars from past brands to the currency of wwe....TNA is dumb for putting a world title on a veteran who is way past his prim look at stings body the man is OLD....
Kasey
Connoiseur of the MILF
It's not some great new development that RVD has been a supporter of weed since his early ECW days. I mean, they guy had a spread in High Times magazine. This was one of the initial reasons Vince wouldn't sign him to a contract in 1997. He didn't like his attitude, and he didn't think RVD's pot addiction would mesh well. This was why RVD was almost a WCW signee.Edge-number1 fan said:
Booker's matches are stale compared to his previous years. His speed and power are down a few notches and his creativity and spot-calling are a shell of what they were even as little as three years ago. Booker was elevated from WCW's midcard because he was drawing more consistent pops in non-title matches than the champions were getting in the main events back in the late nineties. Book's heat for the most part these days is because his gimmick sucks and irritates people, and his wife is so annoying and unnecessary it hurts. She's like the black Deborah McMichael. Great to look at, nauseating to listen to. People actually gave a rat's ass back when Book was just himself on the mic and was strictly into kicking ass and taking names. I pray he returns to his non-Sharmel, non-King roots before his last couple of good years are completely flushed down the shitter.
I love Taz and Styles, but they're also puppets of Vince, now. Watching them sidestep the Hammerstein crowd's sheer disgust of Batista and the Big Show's wrestling blunders was sickening. The old Styles would never shy away from speaking the truth about a match or an angle. They must pay them a lot to bullshit the TV audience into thinking they're actually watching good wrestling. Most of the time, though, they're lying through their teeth about it, because with the exception of a few matches here and there, they're championing complete shit. This is why I take their opinions with an enormous grain of salt.
Kasey
Connoiseur of the MILF
Please, spare me. HHH's angle with DX was nothing more than an easy gimmie face turn which apparently worked like a charm on you. They did nothing more than play the nostalgia card on all the DX marks because that's the only way they could convincingly undo four years of repetitous heel work HHH did. He'll probably be fighting for the belt at the next Wrestlemania and he'll be around long enough to eclipse Flair's World Title record. The fact that you can't see this is indicative of exactly how much of WWE's B.S. that you're willing to swallow. Even though HHH is out of the title picture, he was still main-eventing PPV's so don't think he's selflessly relegated himself to the midcard or some crap like that. He has the top spot in the company whenver he wants because he's schlepping daddy's little girl.ErkBono23 said:
As for the drugs, sure that is pretty much Angle's mistake because he took the damn things. However, Vince has a well-documented history for giving the boys medication that sure as hell isn't over-the-counter stuff if you get my drift, and I wouldn't put it past that serpent to overwork his talent whenever it suits his needs. I'd believe Angle's stories over McMahon's. After all, he doesn't have a twenty-plus year history of shady business practice and shitting all over talent (Montreal, anyone?). And which main-eventer doesn't want to be on top of the company? It's the prime motivator for getting into the business. It's why Shawn Michaels cried like a baby when he won his first WWF title. It's funny how everybody gets pissed off because Angle spoke his mind after WWE tried to bury him with that text message garbage.
As for WWF buying out companies, they were already in a financial umblicus with ECW before that company went tits up, so Vince didn't really buy anything, rather he absorbed another failure (like the WBF and XFL). WCW was sold because Time Warner avoided wrestling like the plague, didn't want to spend money to rebuild it, and wanted that company out of its collective pocket fast. In addition, Eric Bischoff's buyers (who were guaranteed the sale) backed out at the eleventh hour because they couldn't lock in a TV deal, so McMahon swooped in and snatched the table scraps.
Newsflash, slick, but WWE's rosters are full of recycled talent that was from WCW. Benoit, Flair, HHH, Booker T, William Regal, Rey Mysterio, Dave Taylor, Big Slow are a few of the talents to be frequenting WWE programming and with the exception of a handful of them, they all need to retire worse than Sting does.
Kasey said:
IMO, this sounds like an anti-WWE mark post. But I mean come on, you're just looking at the past or off-air Paul L. who plays Triple H. DX sells and it shows. They're selling/drawing stronger than anybody since The Rock's major push. And that's along time. Who cares if Triple H wanted the title to himself in the past? When was the last time he held a title? Since WrestleMania 21. Who's pushing Triple H/DX to main event? The fans. The whole entire crowd is flooded with DX signs, more signs than we'd see for Stone Cold in the old days. I mean come on, you have to admit DX can be funny and are entertaining, that's if you have a sence of humor and take professional wrestling for what it truely is, nothing more than entertainment (ROH, TNA, WWE, it's all entertainment). But you just had to mention "DX marks" as if being a mark for DX is a bad thing. If we wouldn't mark for anything, pro wrestling would be pointless and as boring as hell, so I find it bias.
Vince with a well-documented history of providing drugs? This sounds like an anti-Vince bias post that's mis-told. He HAD a history of providing steroids to his wrestlers, according to what we know, prior to his roids trial in 1993. I could beleive Angle's words, but why say beleive his words over Vince's? Vince didn't say anything other than he can't blame Angle for going to TNA to make a living and to feed his family. But says who Angle comitted no wrongs? Obviously, according to what I know, had absolutely no knowledge or knew anything about pro wrestling prior to 1996. Later on, Angle expected to be the next Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin. That's always too much to ask for. It's not as easy as trying extremely hard with your body to look impressive. If it was just about performing in the ring to win you something barely anybody at all accomplished, win 5 heavyweight titles, then Shelton would be a mutli-time champion. But in all reality, Kurt Angle's rise started in the wrong time. He was no material in late 1999/2000/2001 to be pushed as somebody who qualifies to be in the league of Austin/Rock. But in 2003 - present, it was too late. He was taking pain killers. He drugged his own self up. He then got off them, and was too hurt to continue for that major push he wanted. He won the World title, but he got injured (2005) but he denyed that he was hurt. He was put in ECW for a more steady work schedule for him, but he wanted to work more in RAW or SD!. He failed a drug testing, and was suspended. He returned, and got injured imediately and refused to take time off for his injury, so WWE had to suspend him. Angle was starving for a spotlight and tired of being off TV due to injuries and drugs, so he wanted to go somewhere nobody would get too personal and he could do whatever he wanted.
But when it comes to WCW/ECW/WWE/Vince, I agree with you. However, I don't think Sting should retire just yet. Sting is getting old, no doubt. But he has some things that TNA's modern roster lacks, and that's class, charecter and charisma. Yes, TNA's roster is charismatic, but in reality, you have to be and look "diffrent" to sell when it comes to being "famous" to the public that makes people say hay, he doesn't look like just another kid with a Abercrombie body with a plain attire, he's a diffrent charecter in every way that's more known for being "diffrent".
Kasey
Connoiseur of the MILF
Ratings haven't shot through the stratusphere since they've come back. So please do make it sound like some Attitude era rennaissance, because it sure as hell isn't. The fans don't push anything. McMahon does. This is the reason he's interjected himself into yet another angle when he should've left it alone at Austin vs. McMahon. Like I've told others, Cena is their next solution to the problem that is their heavyweight division. When it finally hits the creative team that he's a dud, they'll be slapping the belt right back around Paul. Except this time, he'll be the screaming babyface they're looking for. I don't see the point in regurgitating a gimmick that should've been left alone in the first place. The same goes for the last couple of NWO restarts I had to sit through. Watching Michaels and Hunter tag is fine, but watching Levesque crack in jokes about how he porked Stephanie and then seeing Michaels doing the "stairs" routine? Just as retarted as the TNA Jackass bit. The gimmick doesn't remotely fit Michaels' character anymore and it shows. It's worse than watching Pat Boone try to be a metalhead. A parody on a parody is not only sad, but pathetic. It's almost as bad as the new "ECW." Michaels and Hunter don't need this anymore than McMahon needs to main event. This is the writers running out of ideas and spending too many hours watching old WWF tapes.MadMetal said:
Why do you think they spent the better part of the last decade side-stepping shows in Oregon? Posterity maybe? Oregon state law governs pro wrestling as an actual sport and drug tests are mandatory. WWF and WCW never held PPV's in Oregon as well because you can't book a main eventer who is a juicer there.MadMetal said:
Pillman and Bulldog were both under the umbrella of the WWE when they kicked the bucket, and that was well after the trial, and we all know they didn't die of old age.
Angle was put into ECW as a way to dump him somewhere directionless because he wasn't part of their newfound entertainment plan. Do I have to draw a schametic so everyone understands HE HATED ECW FROM THE GET-GO? He wanted to kick ass and be a wrestler first on one of the big shows and get the same sort of respect a lot of the other perennial greats received, but they wanted an "entertainer." This is why Batista and Cena both have a spot near the top and are being shuffled into other entertainment mediums, even though they collectively have the workrate of a pushbroom. Angle isn't about "crossover" success. He's into wrestling. I don't really think WWE had to "suspend" him from anything after he tore his crotch up through his abdomen working with Van Dam. He was barely able to walk, let alone work. The average torn groin muscle immobilizes you. One that was as severe as Angle's can leave a grown man moving around on a walker. HHH was given everything on a silver platter when it's easily apparent he's been yoked on enhancers since 1998. That all falls under the banner of the "wellness plan" horseshit McMahon supposedly instated. Who knows, maybe Kurt should've porked Stephanie and he'd be in the spot he wanted by now. He probably could've kept popping pills, too.
PhenomenalStyles
Dark Match Winner
Kasey said:
Kasey
Connoiseur of the MILF
If Vince wanted to make money, he would've stuck with plan A. Plan A didn't involve aiming the product towards kids, but rather teens and adults as they are the ones who were shitting out cash left and right in the late nineties for the Attitude era. The ratings also reflected that as well. He simply went back to playing it safe once he was the only game in town. This is my big gripe with the DX angle. DX was created on the premise of pushing the buttons of conservatives and pissing old schoolers like Bret Hart off. The new one is just a slapstick routine by two aging workers who are too old to do the damn thing with any kind of realism or dignity, for that matter.PhenomenalStyles said:
The boss being beat up thing has been bled to death, and not just by Vince. It was already old when he and Austin started their first go-round, because Bischoff had already beat them to it with the NWO and having numerous WCW faces kick his ass. It's not that I don't want something that those with feeble attention spans can appreciate, because I believe in a big American wrestling company there has to be a middle ground. My big issue is that Vince hasn't been able to find that for a long time and I think this latest attempt is the most ass-backwards method of trying to do so. The Attitude Era was successful because they pushed main-eventers with workrate for the most part, and the storylines were solid for the most part.
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