Hall of Fame Round Two

JGlass

Unregistered User
The time has come again for us to induct another legend of professional wrestling into WrestleZone's prestigious Hall of Fame. In the last round we saw Shawn Michaels come back from a deficit to edge out Terry Funk by a single vote, beating both the Funkster and Bret "The Hitman" Hart in the process.

The field is wide open this round, as Bret Hart and Terry Funk will be sitting an obligatory round out, so we have room for three new nominations! Use this thread to discuss who you'd like to see in the running. The committee that determines the nominees would like if we chose somewhat modern stars... think 70s onwards. This round could contain anyone, from Dusty Rhodes to The Rock to Yokozuna to Eddie Guerrero. Let us know who YOU want to see in this round and get ready to vote! We had a great turn out last time, let's see if we can replicate that success!

We'll be looking to post the nominees and the voting in two weeks.
 
Let this round be one of cruserweights and high-flyers:
Rey Mysterio: 2 time WHC champion and 1 time WWE Champion, deserves to be in the running.
Eddie Guerrero: One time WWE Champion, would have been more if it weren't for his death.
Ricky Steamboat: One of the greatest in-ring workers, ever and proved he still has it last year.
 
Sorry if I get bashed or bad rep or marks against me by the mods for criticizing them. But why do they want to only consider more modern guys? Wrestlers from the '70s on? Amongst our first 6 inductees, we have 1 old school wrestler (Lou Thesz), and the rest are modern wrestlers (Hogan, Flair, Andre, Stone Cold, HBK). It is ridiculously imbalanced as far as modern era wrestlers in the HOF compared to old school wrestlers as it is right now. And the committee wants to dismiss any wrestlers from before the 1970's to induct more modern wrestlers?

Are we really on the path to having Yokozuna, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio and Randy Orton in the HOF before legends like Bruno Sammartino, Gorgeous George, Verne Gagne, and Buddy Rogers? Not to mention really old school wrestlers who created professional wrestling as we know it. People like Frank Gotch, Ed "Strangler" Lewis, and Jim Londos?

To quote the Miz...."Really? Really? Really!!??"

Is it because they feel older wrestlers being in the running will hurt the level of participation for the Hall of Fame? If that's the case, that's a real shame. Very disappointing :disappointed:
 
But if anyone before 1970 is out of the running, these would probably be my top 5 choices (I'll go from 1970-2000. I absolutely refuse to even consider anyone that has only come to prominence in the last decade, as that is way too soon from a chronological standpoint to already have them in the HOF).


Bruno Sammartino

Even though he was around before 1970, he was still champion from 70-71, and then had another four year reign as WWWF champion from 1973-1977. He was still maybe the biggest draw in pro wrestling at the time, so he was still in his prime. He had some of the best matches of his career during the 1970's and beyond against the likes of Pedro Morales, Killer Kowalski, Stan Hansen, and Larry Zbyskzo. He was the star that put the biggest wrestling promotion in history on the map. It's a joke to not have Bruno Sammartino in the HOF (even this early on). Let's get him in already!!!!!


Harley Race

Other than Ric Flair and Lou Thesz, he is probably the greatest NWA Champion of all time. He was probably the greatest worker of the 1970's and put people like Ric Flair and Dusty Rhodes on the map. He had countless matches across the world, ensured that the NWA Championship was still the most prestigious title in wrestling despite the growing popularity of the WWWF in the '70s through his class, toughness and amazing level of quality to his matches. Harley Race is one of the most beloved and respected wrestlers in the history of the business. If we're going with an NWA champion post-1970, with Flair already in, Harley Race is clearly the top choice here.


Antonio Inoki

The biggest star in the history of Japanese pro wrestling, he is a cultural icon over there (much bigger than Hogan or Rock are here in America). He was the founder of perhaps the 2nd most successful pro wrestling organization in the last 40 years (New Japan Pro Wrestling), and put wrestling in the national spotlight with his match with Muhammad Ali in 1976. If Rikidozan cannot be inducted because he's "too old school," Inoki should clearly be the front-runner for Japanese pro wrestling.


Macho Man Randy Savage

Even though there are other bigger stars that predated him, Macho Man is such a huge name and such an absolute pro that he deserves to be in the HOF. If Shawn Michaels and Stone Cold Steve Austin got inducted this early on, there's no reason Macho Man shouldn't either. He was along with Piper, Hogan, and Andre, the biggest star in the WWF during the 1980's, and he was by far the best worker in that decade. No one came close to touching him (except Steamboat and later on Curt Hennig and Bret Hart). I'd be cool with Macho Man making it, and unless he was up against Bruno Sammartino, I would probably vote for Macho Man over anybody (unless pre 1970 wrestlers were in the running)


The Undertaker

Other than Andre the Giant, the greatest big man wrestler of all-time (yep, better than Vader), he set an entirely new standard for giant wrestlers in their workrate and ability in the ring. Not to mention few wrestlers have had the longevity (in being a top run-main eventer) that he has (only Lou Thesz, Bruno Sammartino, Verne Gagne, Ric Flair, Nick Bockwinkel, and Shawn Michaels come to mind). With Stone Cold and Shawn Michaels in the HOF, and Bret Hart out of the running until the next round, Taker is obviously the next mainstay 1990's WWF superstar to be considered (he should go in over Rock due to him being around 6 years prior, for chronological reasons).


Other Post-1970 Wrestlers I strongly considered putting in my top five choices...

Jack Brisco, Dory Funk Jr., Giant Baba, Jumbo Tsurtu, Tiger Mask, Bob Backlund, Superstar Billy Graham, Jerry Lawler, Stan Hansen, Bruiser Brody, Nick Bockwinkel, Dusty Rhodes, Jimmy Snuka, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Ricky Steamboat, Ted Dibiase, Sting, The Rock, Mick Foley
 
As the man who singlehandedly propelled pro wrestling to a global form of entertainment, I do feel that Vince McMahon deserves to go into the WZ HOF more than any other superstar. However I do feel that if he is included in the polls, there might not be much of a debate as to who should get in. In such a case I feel his should be a special inclusion, maybe at a later stage.

Apart from Vince, there are a lot of guys who are equally deserving of an HOF induction but there isn't really anyone who stands out to me. As such I am going with those guys that, in my opinion, would generate the maximum amount of discussion. My choices are:

Antonio Inoki: As dd23beatlesfan1 mentioned, Inoki is the Hogan of Japanese wrestling and he also put wrestling into the natonal spotlight with his match versus Ali. I can see a lot of Puro fans pushing for this and including him could ensure a good debate.

The Rock: We all know the specifics about The Rock like that he was a great draw and is one of the best ever on the mic and so on. However I am mainly interested in how he measures up against Terry Funk. People are pushing Terry Funk's longlevity as his biggest strength but Rock is someone who could claim to have accomplished more than Funk despite having not wrestled even a quarter times as long as Funk. That might not be true but I can assure you that a lot of people feel that way.

John Cena: The biggest draw of the present generation and a superstar who generates debate with almost everything he does. I can see half the WZF'ers tearing their hair out on just seeing Cena on the nomination list. So why not include him and see what transpires?

Macho Man Randy Savage: The second biggest draw of his company during his time and a guy who many people believe deserves the tagline of Mr WrestleMania over even HBK. Hogan, Warrior and Ric Flair, three of the hottest superstars of the late 80's and early 90's had important and career altering bouts with this man. Also to a lot of people who believed that he should have gotten into the WWE Hall of Fame in his lifetime, this might be a chance to set things straight.

Sting: A guy who was a huge draw in two distinctly different times and in two distinctly different gimmicks, Sting is a guy who should not be ignored. He is still a much talked about wrestler despite having never wrestled in the WWE and it his perhaps his stance towards the WWE that makes him even greater in the eyes of some fans. There are lots of WCW and TNA fans on this forum and this would certainly pique their interest.

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On a slightly unrelated note JGlass, X and I were talking the other day about having a WZ HOF for pro wrestling matches, in the same manner in which we have one for performers. I just wanted to know what you think of it.
 
Haha this thread is funny cause I'm pretty sure the "committee" already knows who is going to be on the polls. Actually, I'd pretty much guarentee at this point in time. However, for the sake of discussion here is who I suspect will be nominated and why.

Vincent Kennedy McMahon. He's officially "retired" and or not a major player on any company. :rolleyes: (JGlass you'd recall said argument.) However, this guy is why we even have a wrestling business and due to him retiring officially recently I could easily see him winning the polls. I think that he has done so much and deserves a Hall of Fame induction.

Rock The most electrifying man in show biz was a draw was someone who got people interested and was a major player in wrestling. He was a good wrestler and overall was a very good draw. Plus he was very well liked but the forum members...

Undertaker his streak propels him to HOF status. Considering he is less prominent then Ric Flair I think he would be allowed to enter the HOF. Good career good gimmick he's in.
 
Since nobody else here is going to champion a completely average contemporary figure, I will. Everybody loves what CM Punk is doing right now. But before dissatisfied indy star CM Punk ever raised an X'd fist against the soul crushing status quo, there was Rob Van Dam.

Van Dam proudly flew his indy colors under the WWE banner. And while there were indy stars who should have been big like Taz and Raven who arrived on the mainstream stage before my boy, nobody broke through like Rob. My man caught on to the point where him and his indy roots couldn't be ignored. He championed an alternative. He championed his unique look, his unique wrestling, his unique charisma, and his unique mic skills. While WWE was desperately looking for the next bodybuilder to force into that Hulk Hogan cookie cutter, Rob Van Dam was quietly stealing shows and winning hearts on the undercard and being overlooked for his efforts. And when the time came, Van Dam let everybody know what he thought of the sports entertainment game. He wasn't Steve Austin or DX -- He was Rob Van Dam. Where Austin and DX were the fabric of the company, Van Dam was a real rebel, the kind that frightens the forces of monotony. Everything you love about CM Punk and Daniel Bryan was done first by Rob Van Dam. Don't let the fact that he never got the ball stop you from recognizing how significant he was.

rvdwwechamp_51284.jpg
 
I think Bruno Sammartino needs to at least be one of the 3 guys up for consideration. I have no doubt he'd probably lose it to someone else, but people need to be a bit more educated about him. He was the major draw of the late 60's and 70's, he sold out Madison Square Garden more than anyone, and not to mention he is the longest reigning WWE/F Champion in history.

I think his resume speaks for itself.
 
I would argue that Undertaker should be up for consideration.

The Deadman has done it all over 20 years in the WWE, and the astonishing this is that he has been a main eventer for literally all that time. Something like that is very rare, and even today when Undertaker makes a rare appearance, he WILL be the main event.

The most iconic gimmick in wrestling history, which looks horrible on paper but was turned into something special through Mark Calloway's immense talent, The Undertaker has been a dominant force for 2 decades, beating anyone infront of him, amassing 7 World Title reigns, 6 spells as Tag Team champion, and an unrivalled 19-0 streak at Wrestlemania, which has made him one of the most popular wrestlers in not just the WWE, but the history of the business.

Consistently the most over wrestler on the card, 'Taker has always been smart enough to know when his character needed updating, and we have seen him play an evil satanic minister, a more human red neck biker, the more traditional funeral home Undertaker in his debut, and the Dead Man character he is today. He is always a face now, but has been a fantastic and evil heel several times over the years. His entrance music is iconic, his ring entrance is probably the greatest of all time.

Undertaker has been the originator in many matches, being part of the first (and many since) Hell In A Cell match, inferno matches, casket matches, last ride matches, buried alive matches, the list goes on. The Dead Man character allowed Calloway so much creativity in the type of matches he could participate and create, always giving the fans something different.

Great feuds over the years with the likes of Mankind, Shawn Michaels, Edge, Vince McMahon, Randy Orton and of course his storyline brother Kane have captivated WWE audiences for years. While limited in his ability to cut promos as the Dead Man character (he was far better in that sense has the Bad Ass), 'Taker's mind games and ability to get inside the head of his opponents is a big reason why the fans love him so much and why he has had the success he has achieved.

From being able to make the transition from his debut (where the WWE was very child orientated and cheesy), to adapt his character to remain a headliner and a huge draw throughout the Attitude Era and then to still be a megastar today, capable of pulling out a show-stealing match at any time, Undertaker is a phenomenon. He should be in the Hall of Fame.
 
What logical justification can there be for active exclusion of the men that made wrestling what it is today? Of course, I am referring to the Gorgeous George's, Frank Gotch's, William Muldoon's, etc, the guys that it would seem logical to include in any hall of fame---at least any legitimate hall---regardless of their level of obscurity to the common fan.

If we acknowledge Hulk Hogan as deserving, in spite of his glaring overall flaws in wrestling ability and character, than is it not logical to acknowledge Gorgeous George as hall worthy? Because I gaurantee you, if we had not a Gorgeous George, we would not have an atmosphere in professional wrestling that would support Hulk Hogan, or whatever random modern wrestler that is up for selection.

My intent isn't to be critical of the hall's selection process, but if the mods are just now suddenly altering the criteria of what ultimately makes a wrestler inductible, then it naturally follows that those of us that care about supporting a real bonafide hall be given some insight into exactly what prompted this about face.

But whatever the reason, here's hoping the staff doesn't expect me to nominate someone like The Rock over George or Sammartino or Londos or especially Gotch on the mere supposition that our current fan base is more knowledgeable about Rock, because that doesn't even sound logical. If that is now the expectation, then consider me excluded from the nomination process.
 
I look at this and see more of a "Who would you pick if you were starting a wrestling company?" mentality then that of "Who belongs in the Hall of Fame?" So many wrestlers who are still in the prime of their career, or wrestling full-time, have been bantered around. I have no problems with the likes of Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, and Steve Austin being in, because while all 3 are still "on-screen" characters, the latter two no longer wrestle and Flair does only once or twice a year. So why we would we induct a John Cena, Rey Mysterio, and Randy Orton in the here and now when they haven't had a beginning, middle, and end of their careers yet and are full-time wrestlers, or worse, wrestlers with no passion for and but a few significant achievements in the wrestling business they're still involved in weekly such as an RVD?

I have no issue with the Rock being nominated, as he hasn't wrestled since 2004. I have little issue as well with nominations for Undertaker or Sting, since we've essentially seen the beginning, middle, and end of their careers and remain relevant despite both being part-timers/special attractions at this point. The problem with nominating current day stars is that our recent memories are generally not only individualized, but also personalized. We look on past stars with nothing more then nostalgia, a past that really didn’t exist, which replaces clarity. When we seperate the greats from the past with finished careers from the stars of the here and now, rather then mixing them together, we're able to see things much more clearly and objectively. In other words, we consider the entire body of work, not just the wrestler who we enjoy most in the here and now that has yet to even approach the twilight of their career.

The man Id like to nominate here is Mil Mascaras(Aaron Rodriguez). The "Man of a Thousand Masks" is easily the most popular and important crossover star from Mexico of all-time. Miscaras was the first Mexican to win the IWA(International Wrestling Association, U.S.) Championship, the first time a wrestler born in Mexico had won an American title and headlined their promotion. Mascaras began his career in 1965 and won the title in 1976. Not only did this pave the wayfor other foreign wrestlers to have success in the United States, his persona held the fledging IWA together while he was there. It was because of his popularity that he paved the way for the luchadors to follow to have the success they did, truly making him a pioneer. Mascaras won the first of his titles in 1967, and won his last one in 1991, holding it until 1994. That's 27 years between his first title reign and the end of his last. Not only was he a pioneer, but his longevity and success during has been matched by few.


Mascaras was able to open the door and become such a pioneer because of his lucha libre style. While in Mexico, he utilized the traditional mat-based approach that was the standard of the time. But when he branched out to the United States and Japan, he relied more on his high flying moves and counters of lucha libre, introducing moves such as the plancha and the top rope suicide dive to American and Japanese fans alike. Love him or hate him(and many felt the latter), he paved the way for wrestlers such as Jushin Liger, Ultimo Dragon, the Great Sasake, Rey Mysterio and most recently, his nephew Alberto Del Rio. I would argue that without Mascaras, none of these wrestlers would have achieved the levels of success they did, or at all. All 5 men, amongst many others, cite Mascaras as their primary influence.

During Mascaras' time with the WWF, he was one of the biggest draws in the history of the company. Bruno Sanmaartino is often noted for his success at selling out MSG, but Mascaras did the same many times during the late 70's and early 80's, specifically while feuding with then champion Superstar Billy Graham. He also was the first masked man to be able to wear his at MSG, as a ban implemented there was lifted solely for him. Other notable feuds Mascaras had within the WWF were with Ken Patera, Harley Race, Ivan Koloff, Nick Bockwinkle, "Classy" Freddie Blassie, and Dory Funk Jr, most of whom are WWE Hall of Famers.

When you break it down, it's hard to find someone who holds a candle to Mil Mascaras. Ive read Foley and Jericho's books where they've discussed Mil's difficulty to work with. Both cited his unwillingness to sell their moves, job to anyone, or listen to suggestions. But if we were use such criteria other then wrestling ability against other performers, we'ld have to disqualify Hogan, Flair, and Austin from the first 5 for similar reasons.

Mascaras holds every criteria needed to garner a nomination here. He was the first crossover superstar from Mexico to the US and Japan, both in terms of being a draw and a pioneer in terms of style. His drawing ability was second to few, selling out not only MSG, but arenas all over the world. An exemption was made to the MSG mask ban just to accomodate him, because he was that great a star. He paved the way and was the biggest influence on some of the greatest foreign wrestlers of all-time, and his longevity and championship resume across it is astounding. And I havent even touched on his successful film career in Mexico, in which he starred or appeared in over 50 movies to this date. "The Man of A Thousand Faces" deserves the nomination here.
 
the king of kings,triple H because he has been in the company since 1995.next i think mick foley because he has done quiet a lot in the company.
 
Got to be The Undertaker. One of the biggest phenomenons ever to hit professional wrestling, this man transcends sports entertainment. There's people who've never even watched wrestling who know who The Undertaker is. His entrances are always awe-inspiring (I never believed all the commentary quotes about his entrance being "chilling" until I experienced it in person in 2004... hairs shoot off the back of your neck and hit the guy behind you in the face.) his persona is unrivalled for sheer power in a gimmick (He barely needs to get on the microphone at all, and yet is still a hugely charismatic star for me), and plus, Mark Calloway's ability to pull off two completely personas under the same character (The Deadman style Undertaker we currently see/he debuted with, and The American Bad-Ass that hung around for a few years.) Multiple world championship reigns, almost unrivalled drawing power, and of course, The Streak. He's the man who made Mick Foley famous, the man without whom Hell In A Cell wouldn't have ever reached the heights it once did, the man who retired The Heartbreak Kid, Shawn Michaels... In short, a man who deserves the Hall Of Fame.
 
Mitsuharu Misawa: He is highly influential on wrestlers around the world. Throughout the 90's he was involved in at least 15 matches that received 5 star ratings from Dave Meltzer. He's one of the definitive Japanese wrestling legends. He put on stellar matches until his untimely passing.

Mil Mascaras: He is possibly the most important lucha libre wrestler in the history of the sport. He helped popularize it and was very influential on future lucha stars. He spread the influence of lucha libre beyond Mexico as well by touring the United States and Japan rather extensively.
 

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