General WWE Complaining & PG Rating Thread

[666_The_Game_666]

well vince has done alot of stuff in the past i guess people will think that his biggest mistake is making WWE go PG well that aint the biggest it was buying out his own comeption i mean buying out the company which made you go out and make yours better is just stupid and what did Vince do with WCW nothing if he didnt buy it WWE could of done some more stuff for a bit longer

 

[gers09]

tna is getting much better but it will take years until they become a challenge

your right it is getting better and i for one hope it does become a challenge for them and i hope it soon i think it the only way wwe will get better it will have to or tna will take over

 

[mcflyboy]

There are three things that come to my mind. I'm not sure if they rate up there in "biggest mistake" territory, but they are things that it if they had been or become fixed, might have made a better overall product. So here are the three, in no particular order

1. Vince's belief that he's funny and his desire to interject ridiculous, immature (and often toilet-based) humor into the programs. His recent rant and yelling about the name "enos" is a good example, as is covering the spirit squad with feces, donald trump vs. rosie, JR's colonoscopy, etc. I'm not saying that humor in the shows is a bad thing, but Vince has a habit of taking it too far and leaving a bad taste in your mouth.

2. Vince's preference for large, powerful buff guys. He hasn't really gotten over that since the 80s. It seems like there have been a lot of wasted opportunities of very talented individuals who had been banished to tag team, cruiserweight, or jobber duties over the years. Granted, the push for the powerful is not as blatant as it used to be, but it has resulted in squandered opportunities.

3. Vince yelling into the headsets of announcers. It's been stated on this site that in general, former announcers have stated that they don't like it. You can almost always tell when they are repeating something that Vince told them to say. Or you can tell when they are being forced to laugh at something they don't really find funny, but vince told them to (for example, recent hysterical laughing by the announcers at the antics of "santina"). Why not let them be themselves, develop their own style and personalities on their own? And why does Vince have to scream at them? I think a large part of what helps in watching the television programs is listening to the announcers, and turning them into vince clones doesn't seem to serve any purpose.

 

[GIMH]

I would agree with the post that cited the Invasion angle. That was something we had all really wanted for a good five years, and it was so underwhelming. Yeah, some of it wasn't his fault because of the contractual situations, but it just wound up as another McMahon feud. I loved it when Shane 'bought' WCW from under his nose, and when the 'Alliance' initially formed it was gold, one of the great Raw moments from history. From there onwards though, they messed it up too much. Too many WWF wrestlers going across to the alliance, it was basically just one big faces v heels feud. Look at the deciding match at Survivor Series, the alliance team consisted of Booker T, RVD, Shane0Mac, Austin & Angle. So you basically had two WCW/ECW wrestlers in what was supposed to be the big showdown.

It is a shame that he couldn't continue WCW programming, I read that if he hadn't botched the XFL that networks might have been more willing to give Vince a go with WCW. But basically they didn't trust him with any non-WWF products at the time, because of the likes of XFL, WBF etc

 

[shankdc231]

i think vince's biggest mistake is letting stephanie becoming head of the creative team. she is the mom of two young children, so she is going to run things through a mother of a young childs p.o.v. because that is just normal parent instinct. i mean she seemed to be down with all the great ideas till she popped out a few i.e. stephanie vs. vince back in 2003 or her and the undertaker kid napping

 

[jayp_1984]

His biggest mistake was putting Stephanie in charge, plain and simple. Buying WCW wasn't a mistake, that should have been a HUGE storyline. An actual WWE vs. WCW fued was what every pro wrestling fan wanted and should have been bigger than the NWO. Sure, they didn't have all the top WCW stars at first, but eventually they signed most of them and new WCW guys showing up all the time could have kept the storyline going for a long time.

i couldnt agree more!!!

its the equivalent to saturday night live putting tina fey in charge. one move that almost single handily killed whatever good was going on. you know things are awful when they are talking about canceling snl, lets hope that the similar fate doesn't happen to the wwe.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I was one that thought for some time now that Stephanie was the problem. However, my opinion of that changed with the buildup to this year's Mania. After what we saw from Vince leading up to Wrestlemania, I am convinced more than ever, that Stephanie is actually powerless, and that Vince is the one really in charge of the Creative Team. I think Vince dictates every single thing he wants from Creative and everything you see on TV is his doing. Not Stephanie's.

Reportedly, Stephanie is actually a fan of the Hogan Era of wrestling, and every thing we see on TV today, is not reflective of the Hogan Era at all.

So pretty much, I think Stephanie has a title, and a title only as EVP of Creative. Essentially, I see Vince dictating to her down to the last detail, every single thing you see on TV today.

With that being said, I don't think Stephanie is the problem. I think Vince is the problem, and his absolute stranglehold over the Creative team. For a Chairman of the Board of a company, I see this as problematic, and think he is entirely too involved in this one facet of the company.

 

[Harthan]

You know, honestly, I'd go with the career destruction and release of Muhammad Hassan.

Muhammad Hassan was becoming one of the best foreign heels, even, I daresay, one of the best heels, period, ever. He was hated like a bastard, which is to be expected, considering the attitude toward terrorists and his huge anti-America attitude. Yeah, it's a form of cheap heat, but damn it, he did it well. Furthermore, he had a fantastic look and was very strong in the ring. He was a fantastic midcard talent and, at the time of his release, just begging to be unleashed on the main event.

The angle that caused his eventual demise was actually fantastic. Terrorists attacking and beating down the Undertaker, a beloved face, was just golden. Copani came out and looked like a legit main event beast, and he was about to step into the limelight.

This, of course, is where things went wrong.

At the same time this aired, the London bombings had just occurred, and with this fresh in mind, a terrorist attack occurs on entertainment TV. This, of course, led to a media backlash, and UPN saying that wanted to downplay Hassan. This led to Hassan's defeat at the hands of the Undertaker, and his effective burying. Had Hassan won that match, he'd have challenged Batista for the world's title...and who knows what would have happened. I think it's entirely possible that Hassan would have won the World Heavyweight Championship.

This was handled poorly in a number of respects, and there's several ways this could have been used to the advantage of Hassan, or at least done no harm to him.

Option #1 is using the negative attention as a wave to even bigger heat. If UPN had any balls, or Vince had the balls to tell UPN to stuff it and do things his way (which he almost certainly had the pull to do), they could have used this to turn Hassan into a humongous heel. Come out and shit all over the victims of the London bombings, say he was thankful they were all dead, that they deserved to burn in infidel hell, etc., etc. It would have been enormous heat, on an unprecedented level. It could have shot Hassan straight to the top.

Option #2 occurs if UPN really won't have any of it, and won't let Hassan on the show. Alright, so be it. Move him to Raw. It would have hurt his momentum, sure, but I guarantee he could have recovered. Here's how I would have set it up - start a midcard feud on Raw that involves a "Loser Leaves Raw" match, and when the loser leaves, Raw demands someone from SmackDown to make up for the loss. SmackDown sends over Hassan, glad to be rid of him. This of course leads to the problem of the Undertaker vs Hassan match, but it could have been ended easily with a DQ finish on Hassan's part, with him looking like a dominant heel, but Taker actually winning. Then, he goes to Raw, and gets things done over there, he was more than capable.

No, instead, Vince acted like a bitch and caved to UPN. He destroyed Hassan's career, and lost a man who could potentially have become one of the best heels ever, and who could still be around to this day, bringing excitement to a stale main event scene.

So, while Vince has made a number of mistakes, I'd have to rank this at very near the top. It's just so mind boggling that Vince could have allowed a talent like Hassan to slip through his fingers like that, without doing a damn thing to stop it.

 

[twig973]

It would have to be completely eliminating his competition, WCW. Vince does his absolute best under pressure and when he's backed into a corner. It's part of the reason why the WWE has become a little stale because the lack of competition.

 

[King Patrick Star]

I don’t think Vince’s biggest mistake was buying WCW. I think his biggest mistake was what he did with it afterwards. If he did the Invasion angle the right way, instead of just putting his Federation over Extreme World Championship Wrestling, his biggest mistake could have been his biggest accomplishments. Yes the Brand Extension was basically his only resort after this, but he should have kept it separate with a few cross branded storylines. The formation of the WCW / ECW merger, plus the all out Federation vs. Alliance war, plus the aftermath could have been better had Vince thought about everyone else. Raw vs. Smackdown “featuring” ECW is okay, but WWE vs. WCW vs. ECW would have been better. I think that we could be enjoying WWE on Mondays, ECW on Tuesdays, and WCW on Fridays much more than what it is now, WWE on Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays. Oh well. It is what it is and it’s better than nothing, right??

 

[RH23]

I think his biggest mistake is his ego. As others have said, he thinks he knows what wrestling fans want even though he has no clue. He delivers a shitty product that is so predictable with the same guys always in the main event. All he needs to do is to ask a bunch of wrestling fans what they want to see.

Buying WCW was not a mistake for Vince, it showed that he was the premier booker in pro wrestling. For fans though, it was a mistake because since he has no competition, he doesn't to put so much effort into the product.

 

[Age of Orton]

I believe Vince's biggest mistake was allowing Triple H to have so much backstage swing,
If you look at what Triple H has done in the past it's clear the business is a little be messed up due to Triple H, and among them feuds have been hampered in case he lost his spot.

That said Triple H has done a lot of good stuff for the product as well, but I just believe him being in control somewhat kind of messed stuff up.

Back in 2002 once the Undisputed belt went to SD only Vince thought they could make the IC Title the RAW's version of the world title, but Triple H didn't want that so the World HW Title was brought in, and merged with the IC Title.
Triple H wouldn't put RVD over in a match which sucked as they had good chemistry in the ring but HHH should of made RVD look a million dollars and done the job for him, same with Kane as well.
Then came the 11 month title run, sure HBK held the belt for 3 weeks defending it once against RVD but apart from that HHH dominated the main event scene on RAW when Goldberg was brought in, HHH even went as far as to beat Goldberg when he was injured then to wait a month for Goldberg to beat him, when it made sense for HHH to do the job at Summer slam, then in 2004 when he made Benoit look awesome, along with HBK, he (HHH) gets himself in the main event of a PPV while the world champion is demoted to mid card? come on that just doesn't fly, then to beat Orton when Orton took the title off Benoit just made Benoit look weak and Orton to.
The last few years HHH seems to have mellowed out a little but last year he could of put the belt on Jeff Hardy rather then prolong the wait for Jeff, tho that could of been Vince doing it.

Also buying WCW, at the time I said to my buddies WWE will go down now as they're is no competition for them and they'll produce crap known we'll either watch it or quit watching wrestling.

Also back in 2002 when Vince decided to get rid of the Hardcore/European titles mergering them up with the IC Title, only to merger that up with the old WCW title that was hand given, I know these are petty mistakes I'm point out but IMO I believe they hurt the company form a fans perceptive, but in general I think to many people having stroke and not putting the younger talent over.

 

[Paradox100]

I think his biggest mistake, was losing touch with the fans. What the fans wanted, what the fans wanted to see. It seems like Vince doesn't give a damn about us long time viewers, he is going to the young crowd, which sucks. When I started watching ten years, it was the exact opposite. It was SEX, SEX, Violence, SEX! I do miss that time of wrestling, Triple H slipping a mickey into Stephanie's drink. Getting married to her, it was gold. Now, we see these gay feuds, that no one care's about.

Vince has lost the passion for the business, he wants to make his later years, as profitable as he can. Seriously, does he think people give a damn about Vickie? Yet they fire actual talent. It's sad, and disgusting. People said earlier in this post, Vince is just being Vince. I think this is Vince, not being Vince. Quite Frankly.

 

[DeadMan5000]

I can't stand it anymore. I find it really cheap that you can cash in the breifcase after a match. So unfair. I can't stand how people like CM Punk. I find him to be so boring and a shit champion. Al because of that briefcase, he has won 2 world titles! Does creative not believe that he could put a fair match on to win a title?

The MITB is such a cheap way to win a championship. Its meaningless.
Discuss

 

[TSG]

I diasagree. I think that money in the bank is a good way too push an upcoming star. It also adds a certain thing to the undercard at Mania', a sort of excitement, something that hasn't been seen at Mania since the TLC days. It also adds an element of surprise once a year. You never know when it's gonna happen, and when it does, it shocks you, but most importantly, entertains you, like it's meant to do. But I don't think a person should be able to win it twice, like C.M. Punk. I think it should be used to push an upcoming star each year, not give a person multiple oppurtunities at a title, wether they're a big draw, or you messed up booking them the first time. But overall, it's a good concept and usually exciting match.

 

[Coco]

I think your disgust is exactly what they will be looking for when the man goes heel and goes heel strong. No doubt about it, they knew the kind of shit people would be saying when he cashed in like this again after he got booed at Wrestlemania. I think it's great that they're not waiting for this "fans turning on Punk" thing to go on too long and force their hand. They're making the right move here, and MITB was an important part of that. This is a great night and a great glimpse at one of the top heels of the next few years.

If you want to talk cheap title wins again and again, Edge is your man. The problem isn't as deep for Punk as the man is booked to look like he can overcome the odds for real. The lifetime MITB stuff has ruined Edge, but it hasn't ruined Punk yet.

 

[FromTheSouth]

I can't stand it anymore. I find it really cheap that you can cash in the breifcase after a match. So unfair. I can't stand how people like CM Punk. I find him to be so boring and a shit champion. Al because of that briefcase, he has won 2 world titles! Does creative not believe that he could put a fair match on to win a title?

The MITB is such a cheap way to win a championship. Its meaningless.
Discuss

Dude he retained the title in fair matches last year. He won title matches as champion.

MitB is better for a heel to win, but you can't have a heel win it every year.

In this instance, it is going to make a great heel turn. CM Punk has been winning me over slowly, and I think that as a heel, everything will come full circle for him.

Don't hate on MitB because you don't like Punk. Tell Edge that his titles are meaningless. He won the first ones through money in the bank, and has gone on to be a surefire hall of famer.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

I can't stand it anymore. I find it really cheap that you can cash in the breifcase after a match. So unfair.

The rules state the holder can cash it in whenever he wants. Right after a grueling match is part of when ever

I can't stand how people like CM Punk. I find him to be so boring and a shit champion.

and i find him to be entertaining and a good champion. Yay i have an opinion too.

Al because of that briefcase, he has won 2 world titles! Does creative not believe that he could put a fair match on to win a title?

So has Edge but I don't hear you bitching about him. That briefcase launched his Main Event Career. Without it Edge would not be where he is today Also it would have been the start of RVD in the Main Event as well

The MITB is such a cheap way to win a championship. Its meaningless.

How is it meaningless? It has launched 3 superstars into the Main Event one of which is perhaps the best heel right now in the WWE, 2 of which have won multiple titles using the MITB case.


There is nothing wrong with MITB you're just complaining because CM punk is World Champion

 

[Hacksaw Highway]

Plus, it provided us with two great swerves tonight. Nobody thought Jeff would win, but he did. Swerve one. Then, out of the blue, Punk wins the belt. Swerve two. It keeps fans on their toes, it's a great storyline way for somebody like Punk to win the belt.

 

[Tenta]

I can't stand it anymore. I find it really cheap that you can cash in the breifcase after a match.

It's part of the rules. If WWE had any bones with it, they would amend the rules. It really doesn't matter that much. The only complaint I have is that it gets a bit predictable, but even then, you aren't sure when someone will cash it, so it's not completely predictable.

Raise your hand if you expected Punk to cash it tonight....

Exactly as I thought.

So unfair. I can't stand how people like CM Punk. I find him to be so boring and a shit champion.

And when you possess the body of Vince McMahon and take over his mortal soul, then you can choose what happens in the WWE world. If McMahon fund Punk boring, he'd never get a shot in WWE.

Al because of that briefcase, he has won 2 world titles! Does creative not believe that he could put a fair match on to win a title?

Hi There!

Edge has won his titles through the same tool. Does that make him less of a champion in your eyes at all?

The MITB is such a cheap way to win a championship. Its meaningless.

The fact that a championship changes hands shows it's anything but meaningless. Get yourself a dictionary.

Discuss

........... Deadman? Is that you? Weren't you banished?

And if it's not Deadman..... You're going down the wrong road. You never want me to associate your posts with his.

 

[finneycom1]

I thought about posting this same thread tonight, but only with a little less disgust. Unfortunately, I didnt get to watch the PPV tonight, but I just read the results.

This is yet another subject where I am torn. On one hand you have the MITB rules which states that they can challenge for the strap at any time. Great concept that provides fans with the element of surprise and excitement that otherwise has been lacking recently. Also, WWE has gotten pretty creative with the way the MITB winners cash in the briefcase. Storyline-wise, I have been pretty satisfied with the surprise cash-ins.

On the other hand, I am not a huge fan of CM Punks and if they were to let him cash it in tonight, which they did, I would have preferred that Edge beat Hardy in the match. This would have set up a nice little feud between Punk and Edge that they missed out on last year when Punk beat Edge for the strap then Edge immediately went to Smackdown. Punk couldve beat Edge and they could have either had a feud or the other option being, let Edge go to Raw.

 

[Black Snow]

From a storyline purpose people have to remember what it takes to get the title shot. You have to beat seven other people in a ladder match and there's only one chance a year to earn said title shot. Heck, you also need to win a match just to get into the eight-man ladder match. There are a lot of hurdles just to get a title shot.

On top of that, it's now a known commodity that MitB is in play. It's up to a champion to make sure they have eyes in the back of their heads and that they have enough energy left after a title match to fend off the MitB winner if need be. It's not like an authority figure just handed out the title match on a whim. Edge and Jeff Hardy both knew that if they won the match there was always a chance Punk would appear.

Also, Punk had a match. He wasn't sitting in the back for three hours watching the PPV and sipping a Pepsi.

Like someone else mentioned, Punk did take the title from Edge last year in a cheap fashion. But in that very same night he defended the title against JBL and pinned him. He beat the man again at Summerslam. The way a person wins a title is one match. What they do after that is what defines a title reign and how good someone is as champion.

If Punk cheats every time he defends the title or ducks challengers then by all means label him a lame, cheap champion. But if he defends it whenever someone wants a shot like he did in his all too brief reign last year then it's totally unfair to label him like that.

There's a difference between not liking Punk and labeling him a weak champion. I don't like John Cena. I find him boring and dull both in the ring and on the mic. Yet I have no problem admitting that when he holds the title he's usually a strong champion.

 

[Hayles]

All around I think MITB has just lost its luster. I dont know about CM Punk, his last reign was just sad, and there are ideas of a heel turn. I think its about time that WWE had a MITB winner lose the match. As it is right now, everytime the MITB holders music hits, there is a 5 second shock factor. After that, its nothing but predictability.

 

[The Infant Finite]

Personally, I love the way it played out. Oddly enough, I laid this scenario out in a post a week o two ago, i'm kinda shocked to it come to fruition.
I think this was the perfect way to begin Punks heel turn and Jeff is definately the right guy for his first championship feud, as I have a feeling Edge will be holding the WWE title sooner rather than later, given what is going on with batista's injury.


As for your disdain for the MITB concept, I would strongly suggest you are in the vast minority there as it is nice to have SOME concept in today's era that isn't entirely predictable. I think creative may just learn there lesson from Punk's first title reign and propell him into a feud with a quality preformer, rather than the practically worthless outside of the microphone, JBL. Hardy, whether he leaves or not, will do a lot more good towards making Punk a credible champ, and his victory over Umaga didnt hurt either.


For the first time ever, I am more excited to see what transpires tuesday night rather than Monday. Even though I will still tune in tomorrow just to see where they go from Batista if indeed his injury is legitamite.
I hope they don't go the forseeable route of throwingthe title back onto orton as it will render what happened in they're match tonight irrelevant, but I kind of expect it. In the back of my mind, I'm hoping Edge sneaks his way in the door but I doubt it.

 

[Sparky]

I bet you enjoyed the hardcore championship. where they could challenge for it at anytime.

the money in the bank, is like a reward. your in a ladder match with 8 people, its hard enough to beat one person, let alone 7. It makes it interesting and gets people talking. how many PPV's, times on raw or smackdown did you think, "CM Punk is going to cash his case in"? i bet you it was more then once. It gets people thinking all the time. and its very rarly expected when it does happen.

I was joking around with my little brother, he was jumping up and down happy that Jeff had won, I said to him that there was still 8 minutes left, and that CM Punk was going to come out. but i didn't really think it was going to happen.

Keep the money in the bank case, it adds a bit of spice to the WWE.