Found a wormhole in the WWE Universe!!

[Navi]

You don't have to look far to see the term "indy darlings" used to describe wrestlers like Owens, Zayn, Cesaro and others. You know some of the better wrestlers on the roster today.

What I don't understand is why do fans dislike them so much? They put on great matches, come in with experience, some have a ready made fan base and basically skip basic training. What does it matter where a wrestler learns to hone their craft, why should it bother fans so much? Whether they come from TNA, ROH, NJPW or anywhere else shouldn't the fact that they are now WWE superstars be enough?

Well obviously not for some fans. I see a lot of comments that they are ruining wrestling, turning it into a circus some would say, and only home grown WWE talent should be allowed in a WWE ring. I think that kind of thinking if allowed to happen will eventually destroy this business.

Over the last few years the WWE has shown an unwillingness to actually grow their own talent, and now we are a the point where it the "indy darlings" all left tomorrow, the roster wouldn't really look like much. Let's face it Kane, Big Show, Mark Henry to name three are in the twilight of their careers. Taker wrestles one or two matches a year if we're lucky. Orton already has a part time contract in place and Cena looks to be headed that way also. With a rumoured second series of American Grit in the works, he'll be off again for awhile.

Some fans would rather the WWE say goodbye to Rollins, Cesaro, Ambrose, Owens, Zayn, Nakamura, Balor, Gallows, Anderson, Harper and AJ Styles. So who does that leave us with, Reigns, Corbin, Ziggler, Stardust, Wyatt, Crews, Miz, Uso's, Dudley's, Sheamus and very few others. Do we really want to watch a 3 hour RAW with just what's left? I know I don't. Three hours of Reigns against Sheamus and Corbin against Ziggler each week is enough to turn me off RAW for good.

But some think that the WWE would be better off, I don't agree with their thinking. To me the WWE is building for the future, and they don't have a lot of time, so they are bringing in the best that they can to keep the ship afloat. A company can't progress if it stagnates and progression is halted. The WWE doesn't have the time to grow a roster, they have wasted the time they did have.

Thoughts?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

As long as a wrestler has the ability, I don't care if he/she honed his/her craft in New Japan, ROH, TNA, WWE or his/her mom & dad's basement.

Being a brand mark is going to leave you with extremely limited options and it holds true for every company out there or that will ever be out there in that they're not going to be able to create "homegrown" talent at will that'll carry the company. There's hardly such a thing as 100% homegrown talent because almost everyone begins their journey elsewhere.

Now, a lot of fans behave as though WWE is the only wrestling company that matters and it's not difficult to see why they have that perspective in some ways. WWE is synonymous with pro wrestling in the minds of most US citizens; even if they've never watched wrestling in their lives, they know about WWE and WWE is by far & away the most successful wrestling company in the world. I know that there are some who want to play bullshit word games and say that WWE is "sports entertainment" rather than "pro wrestling" as a means of justifying their dislike but it doesn't take an especially high IQ to see through such a smokescreen. Without WWE, the pro wrestling world as we know it would essentially come to an end because if a wrestling company with almost $700 million in revenue can't make it, then nobody else can. However, just because a wrestler gains exposure in other companies first means next to nothing to me and I think the same goes for most fans. You think most of New Japan's audience cared that AJ Styles was originally a star in American based companies like ROH and TNA? For that matter, do you think most WWE audiences care, because I don't and I think that's fairly obvious when you look at the receptions Styles has had upon coming to WWE. If a wrestler has the goods, I don't care if they're a product of the WWE Performance Center, ROH, New Japan, TNA or the smallest indy companies out there.

 

[Headman]

What fans are you talking about? I don't know anybody who wants to get rid of these guys. It's actually quite the opposite. It seems like anyone who wasn't already a name on the indy scene gets crapped on by the snarky "smart" marks which in turn causes the wrestlers they do like to be labeled as "indy darlings". I will be the first to say, I think Cesaro is boring as F$(@#, but I don't think they should get rid of him. I don't make thread after thread bashing the guy like people do with Cena or Reigns. As far as I can tell AJ Styles, Gallows and Anderson and most of the NXT guys get over pretty well with most fans these days.

 

[Charismatic Enigma]

I think you've got it backwards.

The hardcore fans tend to not respect people that came through the WWE system because they feel they haven't cut their teeth. They didn't work the indies, get paid in hotdogs, drive 500 miles for $50 to wrestle in front of 10 people, etc. Basically they skipped the line. Also, most of them just aren't very competent wrestlers. Even with the Performance Center and the best coaching, nothing can replicate the experience of going out there and doing it night after night in front of a variety of crowds. This is why someone like Kevin Owens is an absolute master of his craft, because through over a decade of trial and error he's figured out how to maximize every second of screen time and play to the crowd with subtlety.

 

[Kizzani]

You don't have to look far to see the term "indy darlings" used to describe wrestlers like Owens, Zayn, Cesaro and others. You know some of the better wrestlers on the roster today.

I guess I don't look hard enough, honestly the first time I have ever heard that term, it must be some smarky little internet fan with nothing better to do but make stupid labels. I even searched the term "Indy Darlings" guess what just actors, no mention of wrestling.

What I don't understand is why do fans dislike them so much? They put on great matches, come in with experience, some have a ready made fan base and basically skip basic training. What does it matter where a wrestler learns to hone their craft, why should it bother fans so much? Whether they come from TNA, ROH, NJPW or anywhere else shouldn't the fact that they are now WWE superstars be enough?

They dislike them because they have a choice and an opinion as is their right, just like you have the choice and opinion to like them for what they did elsewhere.
They don't always put on great matches, Ambrose v Lesnar was subpar. Aj Styles v Jericho was good, but in no way was each one Great.
It bothers the fans because they are outsiders in the eyes of he WWE loyalist, I am sure there are a few WCW loyalist and hope for some WCW guy to get on top, or TNA loyalist who still watches WWE since it is far superior ( I watched impact recently and the Botchfest of the Knockouts was so bad I had to watch the women's match from Mania to remind myself not everyone has got it)
Personally I can't wait to see Bobby Rhoode compete on the WWE Main roster, but I understand how WWE fans can be so off put by new players coming in. You grow fond of a guy to have his pushed aside for some guy you might've never heard of. Not All wrestling fans follow the Indies or any thing outside the WWE, narrow minded sure, but no my place to judge.

Being a WWE Superstar is not enough. Other companies don't travel the world putting on shows, they stay close to 1 general location and there is little travel. ROH travels in the upper midwest so it seems, I am not a huge fan so I don't follow.

Some fans would rather the WWE say goodbye to Rollins, Cesaro, Ambrose, Owens, Zayn, Nakamura, Balor, Gallows, Anderson, Harper and AJ Styles. So who does that leave us with, Reigns, Corbin, Ziggler, Stardust, Wyatt, Crews, Miz, Uso's, Dudley's, Sheamus and very few others. Do we really want to watch a 3 hour RAW with just what's left? I know I don't. Three hours of Reigns against Sheamus and Corbin against Ziggler each week is enough to turn me off RAW for good.

The wwe roster is 70 people strong well 62 now that they trimmed the fat. You named 10 and very few others. 52? is very few....Okay well here we are back to opinions.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

Yes, some people have the opinion that Indy stars don't belong, Some people had the opinion Hitler was right also....One was already proven wrong, now it is just time to prove the rest wrong. This is no different then when WWE bought out WCW contracts and pulled all those guys over and 1 by 1 the trimmed the fat until a few greats remained. So this is nothing new, same shit different generation.

So what are my thoughts on your thoughts about other's people right to have an opinion....You are no better than they are. They have an opinion, if they don't want to jump on the Rollins wagon with me, That is fine I will save them a seat. Back in the 80's I couldn't get people to join me on the Sexy boy bandwagon either....funny how 20 years later those same clowns mark out to my boy whenever the music hits. HBK from day 1

However it doesn't always work out. I was on the MIz bandwagon ever since THE MIZ THE MIZ THE MIZ, was seen on Real World. It was stupid, it was dumb it was THE MIZ and I still own Mizfit T-shirt pre-WWE.
Oh it gets worst
Huge fan of Papa Shango...ouch didn't see that flop.
My brother and I were huge Max Moon marks...again Konan did far better
Tatanka was great and like any undefeated streak.
But the One that hurt the most,because he was such a good guy outside of wrestling was Juvi. Juventud Guerrero was just off the chain and I never really got over WCW taking his mask and ruining it all. Which is why when they went under I cheered and smiled with joy Karma mother F***ers.

But see these were just my opinion and who I attached onto. I hated Stone Cold from day one and look how huge he got, I still loath him to this day, many reason was his feuds with HBK. Again these are just 1 man's opinions.

 

[Navi]

What fans are you talking about? I don't know anybody who wants to get rid of these guys. It's actually quite the opposite. It seems like anyone who wasn't already a name on the indy scene gets crapped on by the snarky "smart" marks which in turn causes the wrestlers they do like to be labeled as "indy darlings". I will be the first to say, I think Cesaro is boring as F$(@#, but I don't think they should get rid of him. I don't make thread after thread bashing the guy like people do with Cena or Reigns. As far as I can tell AJ Styles, Gallows and Anderson and most of the NXT guys get over pretty well with most fans these days.

If you ever read the stories on the main page and look at the comments section, they are full of fans who don't like wrestlers from other promotions. Especially if it's a story about Reigns. These well I call them fans because they do visit a wrestling site, and why would you if you weren't a fan, think that the roster is full of wrestlers from other promotions who are bringing the roster down.

That's the fans I'm talking about. Not the posters here who go out of their way to make concise and thoughtful posts. There isn't more like a hit and run style, and it's bullshit.

 

[yourdamnluck]

Everybody has a few detractors even 'Jesus'.
You should not read too much into that. Just listen to the reaction Cesaro, KO, Zayn, Ambrose and Rollins (when he's back) get. Without these guys the WWE will close down. I believe majority of fans want to see these guys a lot more than they want to see sheamus and reigns (Not that they are so aweful).
KO is the hottest and most talented heel and Ambrose is probably the hottest face.
KO and Zayn feud is going to be legen.. wait for it....

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Personally I don't really care where they get their wrestlers, unless they don't want to learn the wwe style of wrestling then I got a problem. These indy stars are great workhorse that can go and put on great matches in the mid card and upper mid card so why go against it.

Anyway back in the territory days they use to do that all the. Most of the guys on wwe rosters where guys from other companies and nobody complains back then.

 

[Navi]

Personally I don't really care where they get their wrestlers, unless they don't want to learn the wwe style of wrestling then I got a problem. These indy stars are great workhorse that can go and put on great matches in the mid card and upper mid card so why go against it.

Anyway back in the territory days they use to do that all the. Most of the guys on wwe rosters where guys from other companies and nobody complains back then.

I just have one or two questions for you, and with all due respect, this is kind of what I'm talking about in my OP.

Just what exactly is the "WWE style of wrestling"? I think it would take more than just for example a Kevin Owens time to pick up the WWE style. Yes he's been around for the better part of over a decade, but it would be hard for someone like him to sort of forget everything he's learned over the years. I would hope that the WWE instead of trying to change him, would incorporate some of their teachings into methods he already knows.

And from the way you phrase it, guys from other promotions, indy guys are okay to work the mid card and upper mid card but not really attain a higher status. So in other words use them to anchor the roster, but don't give them a title shot.

In my eyes they are all WWE superstars. If I've misconstrued anything you've said then I apologize in advance, it's early in the morning here and I haven't had my first cup of coffee yet.

 

[OYDK]

Are you perhaps thinking of one particular member of the LD's around here with this thread? I know I am.

Anyway, the easy answer to this question is that some people are just marks for the WWE. It seems like those types of fans take it as some sort of slight when an indy guy comes in and gets praised right off the bat without putting in the "right amount of work". Ironic, I know.

Than again, there are some fans that probably don't like the direction the business is heading in and choose to express their anger by attacking those who they believe to be the source of it all, flippy wrestlers and their fans. There are always two sides here, and as bad as the fans we're talking about right now are, there are way more on the other side of the coin. The ones who shit on WWE talent like Elias Samson, Corbin, Strowman, etc. simply for not working through the indy scene.

This is basically what wrestling has come to now. Hipsters and meta-hipsters clashing over who's the best at not conforming. Because non-conformity is cool.

 

[Navi]

Are you perhaps thinking of one particular member of the LD's around here with this thread? I know I am.

Anyway, the easy answer to this question is that some people are just marks for the WWE. It seems like those types of fans take it as some sort of slight when an indy guy comes in and gets praised right off the bat without putting in the "right amount of work". Ironic, I know.

Than again, there are some fans that probably don't like the direction the business is heading in and choose to express their anger by attacking those who they believe to be the source of it all, flippy wrestlers and their fans. There are always two sides here, and as bad as the fans we're talking about right now are, there are way more on the other side of the coin. The ones who shit on WWE talent like Elias Samson, Corbin, Strowman, etc. simply for not working through the indy scene.

This is basically what wrestling has come to now. Hipsters and meta-hipsters clashing over who's the best at not conforming. Because non-conformity is cool.

Actually no, I didn't even think about the LD threads at all. I see it all the time from posters in the comments section on the main page.

And realistically once a wrestler, no matter where they come from signs with the WWE, they are WWE superstars. A recent example would be Nakamura. Now that he's in NXT and more than likely will hit the main roster within a year or so, does it matter that he came from NJPW. To me he's now a WWE superstar and shouldn't be crapped on because he didn't start in WWE development but just went through for awhile. But they will crap on him.

Like I said before this is a business that is always changing. You aren't going to have the old guard around all the time. These guys put their time in and deserve to retire with dignity after years of entertaining us. My God the last thing I want to see is a roster full of Ric Flair's. Progression is everything and new talent brings in new ideas and growth, some fans though don't want that to happen. As for the flippy stuff, it's been around forever. Isn't that was the cruiserweight division was all about, so the excuse that "Oh he's from ROH, and does flippy stuff" doesn't wash. Rey Mysterio and Kalisto made themselves famous by doing it.

The only time I see wrestlers like Corbin and Strowman being shit on are by people who say they are too green in the ring. Maybe that's the problem, you bring guys like Nakamura, Cesaro, Balor, Bryan in who obviously know their way around a ring. They've been doing this stuff for years. Then you have Strowman and Corbin who still have to learn a lot. Really who better for them to learn off, someone who knows the craft. Once they learn they will be better for it also.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

I don't care where the wrestler came from. If he's good, he's good. If he's not, he's not. It doesn't matter. Owens, Zayn, Cesaro, Rollins, and others are very talented, but so are Cena, Orton, Wyatt, Sheamus, and Miz. Talent is the deciding factor for me not whether or not someone came from the indies.

 

[dsotm5150]

Everybody has their own opinion of what makes a good performer, some think it's the character, some think it's their in ring ability. I like the trend towards the focus being on the in ring ability but the character development still needs to be there.