Extreme Championship Wrestling...was it the catalyst of the Attitude Era?

[Starchild]

I just watched the Rise and Fall of ECW DVD (which by the way is one of the best wrestling dvds I have ever seen and a must watch for any fan) and an interesting topic was brought up.

Paul Heyman claims that WWE and WCW especially raided many of his guys which was partially the reason for the eventual demise of the company. As we know guys like Austin, Foley, Jericho, Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Rey, and the Dudleys who went on to great success in the other promotions got there start in ECW, as well as tons of others who we associate with WCW and/or WWE. We also know that many of these guys played crucial roles in the Monday Night Wars and the Attitude Era, most notably Austin.

Aside from this, Heyman (and many of the ECW originals) contend that ECW pushing the envelope and bringing a new style to North American professional wrestling is what lead to WWE and WCW pushing the envelope, developing new styles, becoming the national phenomenon that they became in the late 90s. Obviously they were the first to implement this hardcore style and even many of the most popular luche libre wrestlers. And with so many guys who went on to fame in WCW and WWE getting their start on the national level in ECW, it made me realize how important that little company started in a bingo hall in Philadelphia really was.

What are your thoughts on these claims? How big of a role did ECW really play in what many call "the best era in wrestling"? Would we have seen some of these guys in the big promotions and would wrestling have gotten as popular then, and be as big as it is now had it not been for the extremists new approach? Is it safe to say that it was ECW..not WWE or WCW...that really launched the Attitude Era?

 

[avi01]

THE catalyst..I don`t know. But one thing for sure, many of things ECW innovated (Sex, Drugs, Violence into wrestling..well pushing the envelope ) was copied by the WWE.
So yes somehow, ECW launched the attitude era but WWE made it perfect...specially with the proper characters (like Stone Cold) and more innovations (Hell in a cell).

IF I`m not mistaken (I may), Vince did admit he copied a lot of ECW ideas.

 

[gunslinger72]

Well..there is little doubt about this. WWE was a clown school with moronic characters (TL Hopper, Doink, Repo-man) and WCW was (in my opinion) more realistic. Stone Cold was a rip off of the Sandman in many ways. Vince never had an original idea in his life. Did he make what ECW did bigger and better? Of course he did...he had the MONEY TO DO IT! What Heyman did was brilliant for its time, but his budget was severely limited. Just look at what he accomplished! I truely miss those days.

 

[RVDgurl]

Depends on who you ask. I would venture to say that Slyfox would be appalled at this thought, however, I would absolutely stress that ECW was the catalyst for the Attitude Era. Personally, I think ECW has been unbelieveably influential in the wrestling industry and is even til this day.

ECW was not the first company to use hardcore wrestling as it's foundation, but they were the first to bring it to the masses. They amped up the sex, drugs and rock and roll and it worked for their fans. Both WWE and WCW took notice of ECW small successes and adopted what they could of their style.

Make no mistake about it, Steve Austin was the biggest star of the Attitude Era and he got his take-no-prisoners, kick-ass, beer-swillin' attitude from his time spend in ECW and adopted some of the Sandman's characteristics into the Stone Cold Gimmick. WWE also developed a hardcore division equipped with a hardcore title.

Each person's perspective will be different on this topic and it has everything to do with whether or not ECW is looked at as a legitimate force in the wrestling world. In RVDgurl's world, ECW sits at the top of the wrestling mountain. ECW changed the way I watch wrestling and solidified my place a wrestling fan. I believe it to be the catalyst for the wrestling explosion of the mid 90's. Yes, my friends, magic did happen in that little bingo hall in South Philly....

 

[Smart Mark]

I really thing ECW was the back bone to the attitude era. It was WWE and WCW noticing that this little promotion in a bingo hall that was nothing compared to both those company's was rapidly gaining momentum, faster than both those company's did. Obviously the two major promotions are going to think "they obviously are doing it right" and try to copy aspects of ECW. Paul Hayman in my opinion was one of the best minds in wrestling. He brought aspects of emotion into wrestling that is seldom seen other than the occasional super corny and unbelievable story lines pitting partner against partner or family member against family member. He knew that something was good even if it wasn't what people are used to. ECW was great because it wasnt just hardcore, it incorporated a ton of different styles of wrestling that you never saw on WWE or WCW that made for a more interesting show. Even now rey mysterios "lucha" style is not the same as a real lucha libre style and cm punk was so great to watch when he first hit WWE because he retained some of that indy style and it was refreshing to see something different, something unordinary, but even he has been repressed to a flat out "WWE style" of wrestling. With out the WWE would never have reached the popularity it did, why do you think Vince gave so much to ECW including air time? He knew his company couldn't be as big with out taking from this little company.

 

[wolfpack22]

Vince and Ted turner both saw the EXTREME diffrence in their product and Paul Heyman so what did they do , they signed a bunch of ECW originals to their companys and started amping up the volume on their individaul shows. The attitude era would have happened eventually, but ECW really made vince and turner take notice.So yes, ECW was the catylist to the Attitude era.

 

[Slyfox696]

The idea that ECW was responsible for the Attitude Era is completely laughable to me. I love the excuses people use for it:

"ECW was EXTREME, and that was Attitude FTW!"

"They saw all the awesome talent ECW had and stole it!"

"ECW had naked ladies before the WWF did, so the WWF ripped them off"


The simple fact of the matter is this. The only people that got ripped off by the Attitude Era was the fans of actual wrestling. Because in the place of actual wrestling, we got to see Jerry Springer between the ropes. It was goofy, and if not for two of the greatest stars of all-time being there at the same time, it would have flopped bigger than Kevin Costner's next movie.

The WWF did NOT take a harder style to their program because of ECW. ECW had been doing the extreme thing for years before the WWF started moving that way. The WWF stole the "pushing the envelope" concept from WCW, not WWF. Once the WWF saw that catering to a more mature audience was successful in WCW, they did the same thing. The only difference was that the WWF was independently own, whereas WCW was owned by a giant conglomerate. WCW had corporate limitations; the only limitations WWF had was what the fans wanted.

Second of all, yes, both WWF and WCW "stole" talent. But, let's get real. How many of those who were "stolen" were really ECW talent? Chris Benoit had been in WCW before he was in ECW, Rey, Juventud and a couple others were promoted by Bischoff and WCW in the "When Worlds Collide" show, which was before ECW had them. WCW had brought in Konnan, as had WWF, before ECW did. Steve Austin was a former midcarder in WCW before ECW. So, who exactly did they "steal"? Mike Awesome? The answer is no one. Ignoring for a moment that the major companies ALWAYS take talent from the mid-level ones (for example, CM Punk from ROH), the fact is that most of the talents that WCW and WWF "stole" had come from their promotions already, or from promotions larger than ECW.


Trying to credit ECW for the Attitude Era is like trying to credit Hitler with World Peace. It just isn't going to happen.

 

[Slyfox696]

Slyfox you're a moron.

And you're flaming. And flaming a moderator. I suggest you watch what you say.

Of course WWE and WCW ripped off ECW.

All right, let's see it.

They saw a very small indy show that was making leaps and bounds like nothing before it.

So, wait, you're telling me the two biggest wrestling companies saw a "very small indy show" that wasn't making any money, and they decided to do things the way they did? How does that make sense?

If you're a "business man" like McMahon and Bitch-off (get it?)

No, please explain it. Obviously, we all don't have the intellect you do.

why wouldn't you steal the best elements from ECW put a bunch more money behind it, and run with it.

Because it was a small indy fed that didn't make any money? Why would you steal ideas from a place that wasn't making money?

Furthermore, it wasn't even "original ECW ideas. The whole concept of ECW was stolen from FMW in Japan.

I do agree however that saying the talent was stolen is stupid. Talent goes where the money is and ECW was basically a farming system for the big 2.

The first thing you've said I agree with.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

One solitary thing cannot be pinned as the "catalyst" of the Attitude Era. Society was in a weird change at that point, where television programming was getting riskier and particularly geared toward young-adult males. You had Jerry Springer where people are getting naked and fighting on general television, you had South Park which was crossing all kinds of lines in terms of adult themes being packaged in a manner that would be attractive for adolescents, and you had girls on MTV like Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera wearing next to nothing and becoming the sexual fantasy of teenagers all over the country.

And for wrestling...well, yeah...there was ECW. There was the nWo. Those both can be traced back to roots in Japan. Both were successful (ECW was in a cult sense), but I think they were successful largely because of the state of popular culture at the time.

 

[ad21k]

The main catalyst of the Attitude era was Eric Bischoff.

His innovation/creativity/crudeness was what sparked change in the WWF.

To say that ECW somehow initiated the attitude era is absurd the wrestlers who joined ECW merely joined to put themselves in the shop window for the big two companies. ECW didn’t train or develop these wrestlers they were trained by the WWF/WCW and then either left, or were fired. ECW didn’t extend beyond a place for wrestlers to sell themselves to the big two companies.

The idea that either WCW or WWF copied ECW's style of wrestling is also stupid. ECW was a amateurish, almost backyard indy fed thats only innovations were using barbed wire and tables to a horribly crude extent, ideas which ECW copied from an even smaller more pathetic indy fed.

 

[sevenwithcheese]

I don't think there is a debate here. Ed Ferrara freely admitted in his shoot that he was a huge ecw fan, and that he borrowed many of the ideas. If I'm not mistaken he actually said himself that ecw played a big part in the attitude era.

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure it out even if you didn't know that.

To anyone who doesn't think ecw influenced the attitude era, please explain why guys like Foley and Austin were signed by the E. Vince didn't sign them when they were released by wcw, but he couldn't jump on them fast enough after a few months in ecw. If he, and when i say Vince i mean his people, weren't watching ecw then how would they have known what they were doing ... or care about it?

... eric bischoff just copied an angle from Japan.

 

[AgeOfOrton]

deifinitely as WWE thought they could pull off all of ECWs extreme stuff and just expect people to think WWE did it first as ECW was just an indy fed but ECW was really popular anyway but WWE thought nobody would notice has ECW wasnt on popular Television stations