Elite Battle Royal

FromTheSouth

You don't want it with me.
This idea started in the board room. Another staff member said that the best way to demonstrate a proper debate for the n00bs, was to put the old pros in it. He also said we should open inclusion to a vote, and while we did not have the participation I would have liked, here it is.

The following people have been invited.

X
FTS
KB
Sly
IC
Razor
Tastycles
TDigle

This group was elected by bar room vote.

I added the next two, because I can.

Gelgarin
Shadowmancer

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The topic of this debate will be:

Pick one person and defend why that person is the most influential person to the course of human events, during and since their life. I would just like to say that I think we should avoid Jesus in this debate, but if that's your choice, then go with it.

It is open to philosophers whose ideals have set the stage for life as we know it.

It could be a politician whose policies and speeches changed the course of human history.

It could be someone who affected the world positively or negatively. We are looking for whose influence is the starting point for our world, or one whose influence drastically changed society in his own time.

I will not be going first, but let's take a week and battle it out.

ETA: TDigle is out of the country, and Murfish has volunteered to take his place.


This thread will be unstickied next Sunday, and opened to everyone.
 
I have one name for you. He's the innovator of Western Philosophy, the Scientific Method of Inquiry (I extrapolated that name out...I like it better this way), a pioneer of Logic and a man who laughed in the face of the jury meant to condemn him to death. My friends, this man is none other than the great Socrates. Most of what we know about Socrates we glean from Plato's writings, and so some of Socrates' positions are hard to separate from Plato's own. However, most agree that Socrates was real and held the positions that are accredited him. Therefore, let's get at something of substance.


Socrates' Major Contributions:
  1. Scientific Method
  2. Importance of the Soul
  3. True Wisdom
  4. Virtue
  5. Plato --> Aristotle --> Alexander the Great
  6. His Death Was Just Plain Bad Ass

The Scientific Method:

Most know the Scientific Method. We start out with a problem, research, propose a hypothesis, and test said hypothesis. If the hypothesis is supported by your data, report the success. If you can consistently prove your hypothesis correct, then you can use that hypothesis to construct a scientific theory. If you're completely off your rocker and your hypothesis was completely shot down, go back to the drawing board. It's the crux of our scientific breakthroughs throughout the centuries. Our rockets wouldn't go into the sky if Newton hadn't proposed and tested his 3 Laws of Nature. Our scientists couldn't effectively fight viruses if they did not understand and constantly build on the Evolutionary Theory.

What, you may ask, has this to do with Socrates? Well, my dear reader, it has everything to do with Socrates. He was the innovator of what most call the "Socratic Method," in which a problem is broken up into a series of questions. The answers to these questions are the path to the answer you seek. It forces one to look at his approach and answers critically, or else he will arrive at a wrong answer. The "Socratic Method," and the "Scientific Method" share a bond in logic that is impossible to deny.

Importance of the Soul

Socrates, essentially, was the first to argue for the importance of the soul. He argued that the most important thing in life was the soul, and every person should live for his own soul. Material goods, honor amongst man, political responsibilities and familial honor? Socrates argued these goals were inconsequential to the Soul as a whole, the Immortal Being of any man. This, of course, spit in the face of his fellow Athenians. They hated him for it, and he kept teaching his lessons. At least Plato listened, huh?

Another major concept Socrates taught was the Immortality of the Soul. Socrates argued that our soul was immortal, and was repeatedly reborn in new bodies. Basically, a Greek Hindu without the thousands and thousands of gods. With this important ideal, along with the belief that the soul (as made up of the thymos, logos, and eros) was the very essence of Man, Socrates saw no larger or more important goal for Man than to insure it's welfare.

This whole "Immortal Soul" and forgoing material pleasures for the all-important "Welfare of the Soul" sure does sound familiar...sorta like it's taught in all of the major world religions and offshoots.

True Wisdom

Socrates wouldn't be Socrates if he wasn't trying to flip some kind of definition on it's head with a janky definition. The one I'm speaking of? "I know that I do not know." Or, if you wanna go more mainstream with it, "I know that I know nothing." Socrates isn't undercutting his own teachings by claiming he's just speaking out of his ass, as some would probably claim, but rather that real Knowledge, true Wisdom, comes from realizing that you do not know everything. Or, if you want it yet another way, "My knowledge is limited to to an awareness of my own ignorance." Essentially, knowing the limits of your own knowledge is what marks a truly wise man. He also goes on to state that any wrongdoing is merely a consequence of ignorance, in that the perpetrator didn't know any better.

This was started by the Oracle of Delphi in this event:

Chaerephon asked the oracle at Delphi if anyone was wiser than Socrates; the Oracle responded that none was wiser.

Socrates didn't understand, because he did not find himself any smarter than the average person. In fact, he found that he possessed no wisdom whatsoever. He went around, questioning the people in his town of Athens whom would be considered wise. The politicians, the poets, the artists. Socrates found that while they all knew a lot, they in fact knew very little in the grand scheme of things, and were not very wise.

Therefore, while the knowledgeable people of Athens thought themselves wise and were really not, since Socrates thought himself not wise at all he was (quite paradoxically) the wisest man of all. Socrates used this to go around Athens constantly questioning politicians and proving his belief many times over.

This, essentially, is being humble. Wow, Socrates nailing down yet another virtue of the World. Thanks a lot, buddy.

Virtue

Socratic Virtue. Oh boy.

Socrates, in the effort to live for welfare of the soul, argued that people should live with the purpose of self-development. This included building friendships and a sense of community. Socrates believed so much in the idea of community that he did not flee Athens on the eve of his Trial because he could not go against the will of the community.

Socrates goes on to argue that humans possess a set of virtue from birth. He used the fact that grand generals and academics did not produce children of near their caliber. Also;

Virtue was the most valuable of all possessions; the ideal life was spent in search of the Good. Truth lies beneath the shadows of existence, and it is the job of the philosopher to show the rest how little they really know.

A little tooting of his own horn, but still. Virtues, as the ultimate route to the Good and Truth, are the most important part of life and the Soul. Who else but philosophers are there to light the path and ask the questions that help define said journey?

Socrates, in arguing the presence of inborn virtues, led the way for the Nature vs. Nuture argument from centuries before. He also laid the ground work for my own religious outlook on life, a form of evolutionary Deism. God gave us these virtues, and I doubt Socrates would argue such a statement. Finally, Socrates formulated the largest problem faced by people, "What should we live for?" To Socrates, we should live for the Good, and we accomplish that via virtuous actions.

Socrates --> Plato ---> Aristotle ---> Alexander the Great

Socrates influenced Plato greatly, of which there is no doubt. Socrates imparted into Plato many philosophical ideals, and Plato took them to heart. Plato taught Aristotle these very same ideas, and guess who Aristotle was enlisted to teach? Alexander the Great.

The conqueror of how much land? Alexander, the Macedonian King that conquered the entire Persian Empire, the Balkans, and would have gotten India if his troops weren't such bitches? Alexander the Great's cultural effect on the region was felt for centuries. And one could argue that Alexander wouldn't be the man he was if he wasn't taught by Aristotle, whom was taught by Plato...whom was taught by Socrates.

His Death Was Just Plain Bad Ass

Okay. So Socrates was going around and getting people pissed off. He didn't exactly endorse the Greek system of Gods, which made people weary. Then he went around making fools out of the politicians, philosophers, or academics that tried to speak to the public with his infamous paradoxical questions. Simply, people were getting pissed off with Socrates and they wanted him gone.

Being sufficiently pissed off with Socrates, he was charged by the courts of Athens with Heresy and Corrupting the Minds of the Youth. He was confronted with the opportunity to flee; however, he argued:

  1. He believed such a flight would indicate a fear of death, which he believed no true philosopher has.
  2. If he fled Athens his teaching would fare no better in another country as he would continue questioning all he met and undoubtedly incur their displeasure.
  3. Having knowingly agreed to live under the city's laws, he implicitly subjected himself to the possibility of being accused of crimes by its citizens and judged guilty by its jury. To do otherwise would have caused him to break his "social contract" with the state, and so harm the state, an act contrary to Socratic principle.

Socrates stayed put, and faced his accusers in court. During the trial, Socrates used the Socratic Method to make his accusers seen as the hypocrites they are. However, his was still found guilty. He was given one last chance to convince the jury not to sentence him to death. He was asked to supply his own punishment. His response?

He suggests a wage paid by the government and free dinners for the rest of his life instead, to finance the time he spends as Athens' benefactor.

:lmao::lmao: He was a sarcastic jackass to the end. MORE people voted for the death penalty than had voted him guilty, and Socrates was made to drink poison hemlock. Socrates went down like a man, and he went down with his values still intact.

Final Thoughts

Socrates did a lot. He set the foundations for our ideas of the Soul. He set the foundations for the ideas of Virtue and Morality. He gave us the definition of True Wisdom, he gave us the very basis for the Scientific Method. He was the first in a line of philosophers to directly influence the greatest conqueror of Macedonia, Alexander the Great. Not only that, but he gave us the first truly sarcastic ass who died the death of a Man. He went down with his beliefs, and didn't apologize once.

Socrates, the Philosopher of Philosophers, the father of Western thought, and the Most Important Person in the History of Man.
 
I'm going for a bit of an obsucre one here, but I'm right nonetheless. The most influential person in the history of the earth is the British engineer James Watt. This seems like a bizarre thing when you consider that he isn't even a household name, but here's why it is him.

Watt improved the steam engine to a point that it could be actually used. Almost overnight that set the industrial revolution in proper motion, which ultimately led to Britain controlling about 25% of the world, through their empire. The effect the industrial revolution had on the world is unbelievable, and I can't really do justice to it, but here's a few facts.

The railway was invented as a side product of the industrial revolution, as was the ability to tunnel and to mine efficiently. It is the reason why the demand for cotton went up, and the reason why military technology advanced at such a rate.

Without Watt's steam engine, we wouldn't have anything really, at all, pretty much any modern invention you can think of either directly descends from it or the way it is manufactured is, which is frankly, amazing.

I'll say more on the topic later, but look around you, chances are, if anything you can see wasn't invented before 1800, it wouldn't be here without James Watt. If it was invented before 1800, then its probably been improved by something to do with James Watt, and that is why he is the most influential person of all time.
 

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