delirious1
Dark Match Winner
he left because he admired paul heyman and was arguing with smackdowns head writer
ECW's Future In Jeopardy?
- Thread starter Shining Wizard
- Start date
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he left because he admired paul heyman and was arguing with smackdowns head writer
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hbk_rocks02
Guest
it is in jeopardy in my opinion because the cm punk push is now as good as gone and rvd is pretty much gone they cant put on a decent title match i mean test vs. lashley at the royal rumble suckedd ecw is extreme now its not i hope it ends but they keep some of the wrestlers and split them between shows
ExtremeIronChef
Hey Yo!
This farce has to end. Either that or Vince needs to get on his knees and beg for Heyman's forgiveness and hand it all over to him. If Vince can't see the logic behind the E in ECW, then he needs to just f**k off and end it.
Send RVD, Sabu, Little Guido, Dreamer and Sandman to Smackdown. Send Punk to RAW and fire Test, Lashley and the other useless rejects.
Send RVD, Sabu, Little Guido, Dreamer and Sandman to Smackdown. Send Punk to RAW and fire Test, Lashley and the other useless rejects.
Kasey
Connoiseur of the MILF
^Us intelligent ones can dream. However, it's likely that there will be nothing of the sort. Instead we'll get another handful of matches between Lashley and Test that will really "solidify" ECW's place in history. I hope that Paul E. and a handful of others head to another company (ROH, CZW, TNA) to come back and bite WWE in the ass for pissing away the opportunity of a lifetime.
Smokeydogg7
Dark Match Winner
i dont see why vince dont listen to the fans give them what they want and if ratings continue to tank it wont matter because their going to tank anyway if they keep going in the path their on now
if a heyman ran ecw fails then shut it down and never listen to the fans again
vince needs to relax and allow different people to run the 3 brands for a few months if you pick the right people it will work wonders plus vince needs a vacation i saw after wrestlemania he gets raw to bischoff (if he wants it) ecw to heyman and smackdown to somebody and let the gms choose their writers and shit and then finally let the brands compete for real who cares if ecw gets bigger then raw or w/e it's all under the wwe banner and it all brings in money to vince and hey to get the brands wanting to outdo the other brands offer some kind of bonus for being the top rated show of the week
wwe needs a shakeup like that but it wont happen
if a heyman ran ecw fails then shut it down and never listen to the fans again
vince needs to relax and allow different people to run the 3 brands for a few months if you pick the right people it will work wonders plus vince needs a vacation i saw after wrestlemania he gets raw to bischoff (if he wants it) ecw to heyman and smackdown to somebody and let the gms choose their writers and shit and then finally let the brands compete for real who cares if ecw gets bigger then raw or w/e it's all under the wwe banner and it all brings in money to vince and hey to get the brands wanting to outdo the other brands offer some kind of bonus for being the top rated show of the week
wwe needs a shakeup like that but it wont happen
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rhcp22
Guest
So if the world champion in YOUR wrestling promotion got caught and arrested you would just let him keep his dual championship belts and pretend like nothing ever happened?!? Dude he could have got FIRED. Instead he got SUSPENDED. Who the fuck cares if the wrestlers are juicing? How many of them are getting caught driving around in possession of them and getting arrested?!? Here's what you don't get: This has nothing to do with using drugs. This has to do with getting ARRESTED while they're in your possession. Do you not see the difference? If you're out walking in a park stoned off your tree and a cop sees you he'll probably tell you to go home (at the most). If you're driving around stoned and you have dope on you he's going to arrest you!!! this isn't rocket science!!
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rooneysmalls
Guest
i hope they DO last until the end of the year so i can see ecw december to dismember 2007 in charlotte, nc
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CowboyFromHell
Guest
Whether it is steroids or pot, it is a misdemeanor either way. Who the hell cares? It's not like they were caught ass raping a gang of midgets, they smoked pot for christsakes. Letting political bullshit ruin your company is ridiculous. This is grown up time boys and girls, move out of your parents basements. Imagine if the NFL handled their business this way. They let the courts do their job and set the punishment. Nine (9) Cincinatti Bengals were arrested this season. They all have jobs and at most were suspended a game. Jamal Lewis (Baltimore Ravens, RB, prior to the 2005 season) got caught in a cocaine deal via cell phone, did jail time, was suspended 4 games and has played ever since, forgotten news. This is why we have a judicial system, they hand out the punishment. These gentlemen are entertainers not social workers or kindergarten teachers. All I am trying to say is big boy companies don't let a misdemeanor drug offense ruin their company.
Kasey
Connoiseur of the MILF
Drugs are drugs, the difference being as long as someone doesn't get caught Vince don't care...AND NEVER HAS. He only weeds them out when somebody dies (as in Eddie's case for about ten minutes) or when he was put on trial (promptly dumping and juicing wrestlers in the late summer/fall of 1992 like Bulldog). No shit it's not rocket science. Vince also had Kurt Angle's crazy ass "rehab" on the road even though he was chock-full of Somas and had massive neck issues. They could've piss-tested RVD from the get go and nipped the problem in the bud right off the bat back in 2001. THEY DIDN'T. Instead they just sweep the problems under the rug and keep allowing the shit to go down instead of making a serious effort to curb the addictions of the talent. Only when the authorities become involved or someone dies do they even begin to give a shit, and that usually lasts for about ten minutes so the PR department can make them look good. The fact was that RVD was speeding on the way to a show and had the bad luck of the draw, however I'd love to see what happened if authorities cleaned out the lockers or gym bags of some of the WWE elite to see exactly what kind of illegal anabolic goodies are floating around in there. Both problems would equal jail time. In the eyes of the law, it's no different. As for who the fuck cares if the wrestlers are juicing? Do a google search on the lasting effects some of the wrestlers have had. I love watching the show, but if it takes someone sacrificing their lifespan to look bigger, forget it. I'd prefer to see Eddie still alive and a little lighter in the ass, then to see him put on the twenty pounds he did years back and end up gone. Look at Dynamite Kid. No leg. Davey Boy is no longer alive because they didn't do any sort of "wellness" probe on his extracurricular activities, but that kind of stuff never really makes it out in the open, does it?
So what you are saying is that it doesn't matter what drugs are being used, as long as the wrestlers don't get caught. This is not very intelligent reasoning. Let me tell you something YOU don't understand: the consequences of possession of marijuana (in RVD's case) culminated in a summary citation. In other words, it was no different then getting a traffic ticket for speeding or sliding through a stop sign. If your world champion got a citation for speeding are you going to strip him of the belt and punish him for 9 months? Probably not. So maybe you need to start to look at the situation with a little more logic.
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CoolerThanMostHere
Guest
If anyone wants to accomplish a drug free atmosphere then the problems that lead to it need to be handled first. These wrestlers get no health plans, are worked into the ground, told to wrestle even though they are in pain, and put through thr inger for years. They use drugs to keep them going, to numb the pain, to simply forget the hell they are going through every day. It's just like the old movie industry and the way they supplied drugs to their stars to keep them going through exhaustion. That is what leads to addiction, that and an industry that simply doesn't care. These men are meat, commodities. Run them into the ground and then replace them with a cheap alternative. Without a union, rules, or any sort of enforcement this will never change.
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Suzymbc
Guest
Okay, I feel like I am living in some alternate universe here. I can't even believe that anyone who knows anything about the history of ECW and the WWE could honestly say that RVD and Sabu's drug use is responsible for the ECW brand's problems. What really blows my mind is that someone really believes that Test is not on steroids. I suppose his boiling acne is simply a result of a late on-set of puberty....please!!! Vince McMahon and his corporate machine are responsible for everything that you see wrong with ECW every Tuesday night. Vince's brands sucked long before RVD and Sabu got arrested, so try a different excuse. If Vince is so concerned about his wrestlers and the image that they portray to "his" audience, then he should have known about their drug use long before they ever got arrested. This would have been discovered during a "wellness check". And if Vince says he tests every single one of his wrestlers for drug usage, then we know it must be true. He would never lie! And, I have a problem with any wrestler being repremanded for months for receiving a what amounts to a fine, when Vince puts a man on national television every week who is the poster child for steroid use. Vince's morality is a little unclear to me....he doesn't condone drug use, but steroids are okay. The "old ECW" was too violent and offensive for a broad audience, but everyone loves to see a ******ed guy named Eugene make an ass of himself on RAW. I mean, who doesn't like to see a ****** get beat up? That is great fun for kids and adults alike, and who really cares about handicapped people anyway? At least Eugene never smoked pot! Way to go Vince...you moral son of a bitch.
Kasey
Connoiseur of the MILF
You hit the nail right on the head. As much as I love the business, it's beyond obvious that these people are treated like cattle...and as long as the show can go on, they don't give a $hit edgewise about what kind of personal demons someone may be fighting. Hell, Jake Roberts was just freshly clean and discovered Jesus in 1996 when McMahon forced him back out onto the road where he knew full well Jake had MAJOR issues with substance abuse, amongst other things. Even back in his first tenure, Jake was looped on coke for few years straight and he was still getting solid bookings when you can see how red his snout was during his promos from all the snorting he was doing. And this is just one example. These guys do need to unionize. The fact that they aren't is disgusting.
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rhcp22
Guest
Look, you guys are acting like I think this is fair. I'm just giving you the facts. If RVD hadn't been arrested, he may have stayed world champ for longer. The Big Show probably would have eventually won the title, but RVD wouldn't have been in the dog house so to speak, thus his current situation would probably be better. I apologize for making ill-thought comments about steroids but you have to know that its just a part of the business. Always has been, probably always will be. Its tragic, because the fact of the matter is some people abuse it and their bodies just can't handle it. I'm surprised Scott Steiner and Vince Mcmahon are still alive.
As for RVDgurl, where are you getting your facts? RVD and Sabu were arrested, plain and simple. They got out of jail when the posted bail. This isn't like a traffic ticket. This isn't a moral debate about drugs this is just simply common sense. Your champion gets arrested and is being suspended.. WTF do you do? No I'm honestly asking you. What would you do instead in this situation?
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CowboyFromHell
Guest
Actually it is like a traffic ticket. According to Lordsofpain.net, RVD paid a $100 fine. I didn't come to a complete stop a a stop sign last week and my fine was $100.50 (no accident, no one else even around, except a cop). So in the eyes of our justice system not coming to a complete stop is a more serious offense than having 18 grams (not a lot) of pot. Yes, he did post bond and was summoned to court and this is not a moral debate on the ills of drug abuse. He didn't even get cited for driving under the influence. I can't and won't answer for RVD_Gurl but what I would do and what a lot of employers do in this situation is get the individual help. You suspend him for an arbitrary time and send him to rehab (yes, people do go there for marijuana use). But Vince doesn't care about people, he cares about the bottom line and what makes him look good or in this case bad. You don't stick a crowd favorite in the dog house for a year and Show Test-Lashley 3 events in a row. And just as steroids is part of the business so is other drug use. We can't be naive to this. They are athletes who work and travel damn near every night, they (like other sports athletes) cheat on their wives, drink and do drugs.
I followed the arrest very closely and the all the sources that I read stated that RVD and Sabu both paid fines- if that info is incorrect, then I would agree that it's different than a traffic ticket. IF that info is indeed correct, then it's the same plain and simple. In the eyes of the law, the disposition of the case is what matters, not necessarily the crime. YOu asked me what I would do? Well, if Vince McMahon wants to go above and beyond the courts and imposed sanctions, I don't have a problem with that (if he is going to apply it to everyone). Was is wrong to give RVD a 30 days suspension- no. I don't disagree with the suspension and if McMahon felt it was necessary to strip both titles, then so be it. What is frustrating to me is that this incident happened in July and RVD is still being punished for it. He recieved fines from the court, a 30 day suspension with no pay and was stripped of 2 titles. When does it end? He came back from the suspension and was even more over with the crowd and he has worked his ass. The day his suspension was lifted the punishment should have ended.
The whole point behind this arguement is that WWECW is not failing because RVD got caught with a little weed. Hell, old school ECW fans would think it's funny- that's why they sold the RVD 4:20 T-shirts!!
You have to understand how bad the situation could have become. It made the WWE look bad, especially since the story leaked out into the media. The WWE would have been in serious scunity if they just let the situation blow over. It's going to take a long time for RVD to get back in good graces with Vince. RVD and Sabu are lucky that they didn't get fired for this. What would do if your champion was caught breaking the law? That's the point, RVD broke the law. I don't give a damn about RVD's "overness." Please enough with the "It's just a little weed" excuse. He did the crime, and he has to do the time. As a matter of fact RVD's stupidity is still STILL affecting the company today.
I think you're moral views on weed are getting in the way of the truth. "He did the crime and has to do the time"- what the hell is this? The courts did not give him any time (and believe it or not, the court system is a higher power than Vince McMahon). In fact, RVD wasn't even charged with a criminal offense. It was a summary citation. So he paid the $100 fine. End of story. He did his time. Do you people understand the difference between a criminal charge and a citation? I am so sick of hearing "RVD broke the law". Have any of you guys ever gotten a speeding ticket (or some other summary citation) and gotten repremanded at work because it made your company look bad? I would be willing to bet the answer is no. So spare me the "he broke the law" bullshit.
That's the truth, he did break the law. Has he even apologized to Vince about it? RVD put himself in that situation. I do understand the difference between a criminal charge and a citation. He still had to go to court. The story still broke by the media. It was a bad situation, and thank god for RVD's sake it could have been an even worse situation. It was a situation that the WWE had no choice, but to punish RVD. RVD got a slap on the wrist compared to how some mid-carders or no names would have gotten. The WWE couldn't sweep this situation under the rug even if they wanted too. RVD has to work his way into getting the position he had before July 2. RVD dropped the ball, he clearly dropped the ball. If you are representing the company as their champion, under NO circumstances that you are a wrestler to put yourself in a situation like that NEVER.
Man I told all you that ECW would be dead "by this time next year" which was back in November. But no one believed me because Sci-Fi supposedly signed ECW for 2 years or something to that effect.
The fact is ECW was doomed from the beginning because it was neutered from the start of its extreme feeling, then on top of that in little time it went from nearly all ECW originals to being stocked to the gills with WWE 2nd stringers and now what do we have? ALL 2nd stringers with a few TNA rejects and Balls Mahoney.
I can see why Vinny Mac stripped RVD of the gold I mean the guy did get caught with a half bag + 3 joints and that was the beginning of the end for him and Sabu.
But the fact of the matter is without the ability to be extreme these ECW originals were exposed for being simply spot freaks or else extreme freaks meaning all of their offense depended on a certain weapon for example The Sandman is absolutely nothing without the ability to cane someone and wheres his damned smokes!? I mean the guy has to smoke a square on the way through the crowd. And where's Balls' chair?! He is the chair swinging freak dammit now he looks like the Slim Fastin freak with no moves besides the "Balls Ballls Balls Balls WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOA Balls punch combo"
Sabu everyone knows absolutely needs to use tables and without the chair he cannot do half of his greatest moves!
It just sucks they got reduced to this. I mean ECW on TNN was still extreme albeit less extreme but it was still a really great show. WHY the hell did they have to change the format. I mean these guys used to do this crap every single night full speed extreme and they turned out alright.
Maybe I just don't see the big picture but I hope that ECW isn't gonna be remembered as it is now because that is just sickening.
The fact is ECW was doomed from the beginning because it was neutered from the start of its extreme feeling, then on top of that in little time it went from nearly all ECW originals to being stocked to the gills with WWE 2nd stringers and now what do we have? ALL 2nd stringers with a few TNA rejects and Balls Mahoney.
I can see why Vinny Mac stripped RVD of the gold I mean the guy did get caught with a half bag + 3 joints and that was the beginning of the end for him and Sabu.
But the fact of the matter is without the ability to be extreme these ECW originals were exposed for being simply spot freaks or else extreme freaks meaning all of their offense depended on a certain weapon for example The Sandman is absolutely nothing without the ability to cane someone and wheres his damned smokes!? I mean the guy has to smoke a square on the way through the crowd. And where's Balls' chair?! He is the chair swinging freak dammit now he looks like the Slim Fastin freak with no moves besides the "Balls Ballls Balls Balls WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOA Balls punch combo"
Sabu everyone knows absolutely needs to use tables and without the chair he cannot do half of his greatest moves!
It just sucks they got reduced to this. I mean ECW on TNN was still extreme albeit less extreme but it was still a really great show. WHY the hell did they have to change the format. I mean these guys used to do this crap every single night full speed extreme and they turned out alright.
Maybe I just don't see the big picture but I hope that ECW isn't gonna be remembered as it is now because that is just sickening.
I think when ECW first returned it was actuall better than RAW& SD! things went from sugar to shit when RVD& SABU got busted.
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CowboyFromHell
Guest
Dude, it was not a bad situation as wrestling arrests are just a sidebar on the news, mainstream America views wrestling and their fans (myself included) as more of a carnival act than anything. Michael Vick gets arrested, that is big time news. Shawne Merriman flunks a drug test, 4 game suspension, that's it. He still played in the playoffs and made the pro bowl. A WWE wrestler gets busted for having 18 grams of pot, it's a joke. No one cares but wrestling fans. And if it's a popular wrestler we don't even care. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with a suspension and taking the belts for a little, he wasn't going to have them forevever anyway. If he was doing heroin or meth, than I'd be concerned as he would need professional help. And to say you don't put yourself in that situation, I am fairly confident that the people running (and ruining)things over at WWE knew he smoked pot before (1) hiring him many years ago and (2) giving him the belts and the spotlight.
You know, it's funny how some of you guys think this situation was so bad because the media got a hold of it. And RVD and Sabu deserve to be punished because it made the WWE look bad. Here's a question that one of you guys can answer for me: Did Steve Austin ever get punish for his runs in with the law when he beat up his wife? Now, in my opinion, beating up one's wife is a hell of alot worse than getting caught with a few joints (just my opinion). Did Steve Austin make the WWE look bad? Was he suspended and stripped of titles, etc.? It is obvious that we all are not going to agree on whether or not the punishment fits for RVD. I would be happy to keep going back and forth for days about this- and if you want to do that, just open a new thread.
The question here, is simply this: "Is ECW's future in jeopardy because of how much it sucks?". My point is that the new ECW sucks and the future is in jeopardy because of these 3 things: 1. the wrestlers McMahon chooses to put in his ECW are not a good fit for it, 2. the storylines are weak at best and never get played out, and 3. all the wrestlers are extremely limited to what moves they can use. And I can't find any connection between these 3 things and the fact that RVD and Sabu smoke pot.
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