Dethroning Nigel McGuinness

[Harthan]

As of right now, Nigel McGuinness has held the Ring of Honor World Championship for 471 days, well over a year and with 3 months added on. His is the second longest ROH title reign, behind Samoa Joe, and he has made, according to my calculations, 33 successful defenses, only 5 less than Bryan Danielson's 38. Furthermore, Nigel's beaten damn near everyone in Ring of Honor there is to beat - every serious world title contender, anyway. Bryan Danielson, Jerry Lynn, Austin Aries, Tyler Black - he's beaten them all. Now, clearly, McGuinness is going to lose the title. But to whom, exactly, is the question. I see 3 potential options, and I think all of them will wind up with a title reign, but the one to beat Nigel is the question.

Jerry Lynn is, of course, a veteran of ECW, well known and loved to the ROH fans, and has a history of Nigel disrespecting him and his accomplishments. He's also lost a title contest to Nigel, but this weekend hit a big roll with victories over Austin Aries and Bryan Danielson. I think it's almost a given at this point that Jerry will wind up ROH World Champion, as a thank you reign more than anything, and also to give credibility to the title (he would be the first man to win the ROH title who had previously held a major world title, i.e., the ECW Championship). He has no guaranteed title match as of yet, and it looks like the following two men are definitely ahead of him. While he's a contender, I think my other two options are more likely to take out Nigel.

Austin Aries is the current #1 Contender, having defeated Tyler Black to win the status, and promptly turning heel by ripping Black apart alongside Jimmy Jacobs, whom he is somewhat teasing an alliance with at this point, but it's unclear. He's not officially in the Age of the Fall yet, but it seems as though that may be the direction they're taking him. At any rate, he was scheduled to fight Nigel on the 17th, but solidified his heel turn by tearing down the fans in his opening promo and refusing to cash in his title shot at such a B-show. He lost both his matches that weekend, but it doesn't seem to have stunted his momentum as he is still the #1 Contender. It's unclear where his title match will be, but one must keep in mind the upcoming Caged Collision PPV taping - if he's concerned about taking his title shot at a b-show, well, there's a PPV for you. I think that he's also an option, but at the moment I see him revitalizing the Age of the Fall in a tag team with Jimmy Jacobs at this particular point in time over being World Champion. His #1 contendership, heel turn, and momentum are all to be considered, but I think my final choice is the guy to take it.

Tyler Black, ladies and gentleman, is on a huge roll over the champion. This weekend, he defeated Nigel cleanly in a non title match and then went to a 45 minute draw in which he was, literally, seconds away from becoming champion. He was, according to my sources, crawling for a pinfall as the somewhat odd 45 minute time limit bell rang. He requested five more minutes, but Nigel, of course, wouldn't give it to him. The situation, of course, screams rematch, and it's undeniable he'll get it at some point as every time Nigel and Tyler get in the ring it's solid gold. He is also the reigning FIP World Champion, throwing even more momentum behind him. He's got a face turn momentum going for him, and I assume his next match has to be the originally scheduled Jimmy Jacobs vs Tyler Black, which if he wins is bound to give him more momentum. All in all, they're booking him as being definitely better than Nigel, but just coming that close to winning. I think when he gets his rematch, he's going to take the championship.

So basically, it's boiling down to momentum and booking for me. Lynn's not got much momentum against Nigel, Austin has some, with his heel turn, but I think he'll wind up a tag champion with Jimmy Jacobs beforehand. Tyler Black, however, has got tons of momentum on Nigel after this weekend, he's gaining strong reaction as a face, and I think he's got to be the man scheduled to take the world championship of Nigel McGuinness.

So what do you think? Lynn, Aries, or Black? Or someone else? Post all your thoughts on who will finally end Nigel's 1 year + title reign.

 

[jmt225]

Part of me died a little inside when Danielson didn't win the title at Rising Above. I was CERTAIN he was going to finally become the first two-time ROH World Champion, but unfortunately... I was wrong.

But, as far as who I think will be the one to dethrone Nigel, there's only one guy that makes sense right now and that's Aries. I do like Aries, but I really hope I'm wrong on this. Aries just doesn't scream "World Champion" to me like Danielson does.

However, if Aries isn't the one who will defeat Nigel, then I think Nigel will go on holding the title for quite some time. No one else just makes sense. Black isn't ready. Jacobs just lost a major feud. Jerry Lynn... I just don't see it, though it would be pretty neat since they're basically building him up like Randy the Ram. And there's really no one else unless they given it to a Japanese wrestler, which I hope to God they don't. Morishima's reign was horrendous, in my opinion, and I don't want to see anything like that ever again.

So, at the end of the day, I see it going to either Aries, or just Nigel holding it for another 6 months to a year while ROH builds someone up to the title like they did with Homicide in 2006.

 

[RawIsRamsey]

It's a simple as this...Nigel will lose the belt when Nigel wants to.

But in all seriousness, I can't see Aries taking the belt. Part of being a champion is also being accepted by your audience, and there is way to much heat on Aries, and we're not talking Orton-type heat, we're talking X-Pac-type heat. People straight HATE Aries (myself included) because the guy is such a prick. Like true-to-life, on-all-the-time prick. So why would the company get behind someone so many people loathe due to his attitude? He's not making any friends with his handling of the Friday shows either. This simply won't happen without a HUGE attitude overhaul...maybe two months of jobbing to Grizzly Redwood or the Ninjas will snap this little bastard out of it.

Tyler Black is an interesting case when it comes to Nigel. We all want to see it, however, we never get what we want. We also wanted AmDrag to dethrone Nigel, and that didn't happen. Tyler also has several legit pinfalls over Nigel, so it's hard to see someone keep the upper hand on a feud like this. Common sense 101 dictates that Nigel will retain when they meet for real for the title.

Lynn is just riding the wave created by The Wrestler. At no point should Lynn even touch the RoH World Title. It's not a skill thing cause, c'mon, it's Jerry Lynn. However, it's just not believable. I just cannot see him taking out Nigel, especially given his age. RoH is all about it's young, homegrown talent. I seriously doubt an over-40 ex-WCW/WWE/ECW/TNA wrestler is going to pluck the belt from the young Nigel.

I see Nigel retaining the title until March. March is when all of RoH's contracts expire and word going around is that Nigel will get scooped up by one of the big two. Hell, Regal has a huge hard-on for Nigel and he's pretty buddy-buddy with the right people, so it's really only a matter of time. But as it stands, RoH still has yet to build up to someone finally dethroning Nigel. Plus, the ONLY man who SHOULD defeat him is Danielson, and that ship has probably sailed.

I say Nigel keeps until he signs, then does the job out to the returning PAUL LONDON in March.

 

[RVDgurl]

This is turning into a very interesting topic. I have to say, that I would have never pictured Nigel having such a long title reign. I was there the night he won it and the crowd went bananas, however just a few months later, they were chanting "boring" and booing him. Nigel's heel turn saved this title reign and I firmly believe that it breathed much needed new life into his character.

With that being said, I do think his reign is coming to an end. However, ROH is doing a tremendous job of keeping us guessing as to who will be the next champ. In my opinion, there are only 3 real options at this point: Austin Aries, Tyler Black and Bryan Danielson. ROH has been pushing all 3 of them pretty hard in the title picture.

Austin Aries is getting new life with his heel turn and is billed as the #1 contender. Yet, in Edison this past weekend he made it clear that he has little interest in fighting McGuiness and he is choosing to keep that title shot in his back pocket. This leads me to believe that Aries may be the least viable of the 3 options. It sounds more like whomever takes the belt from Nigel could be a transition champ who will set up Aries for a very lengthy title reign.

Tyler Black did have a fantastic match this past weekend with Nigel, ending in a draw. The crowd was unbelieveably hot (Edison is normally a very passive crowd) and was begging for 5 more minutes at the end of this one. The entire match favored Black and could very well be looked at as the last step before dethroning the champ. Black is definately the fan's darling at the moment and ROH would not be wrong to belt him. However, ROH historically prides themselves on belting guys who are established in their company. They made an exception for Morishima, so it would not be far fetched for Black to be given a chance as well.

Bryan Danielson may be the best option right now. Ok, so he is absolutely my favorite wrestler since RVD left the business, so I may be a bit skewed on this. But ROH has ever so slowly built the Danielson/McGuiness fued since the night Nigel was crowned champ. In fact during the McGuiness/BLack match in Edison, Danielson played a huge role. Nigel threatened to walk away and take the countout but Danielson came out and forced Nigel back into the ring. Danielson has been ROH's golden boy since it's inception. I think if anyone is going to be the first 2 time champ it will be Danielson.

 

[CCS]

I think they should give the title back to Bryan Danielson. He's their most beloved and best known talent, so it just makes sense to make him their world champion. Nigel has been a great champion but his reign has become a bit stale. He's beat everybody he can beat, and he's had feuds with everyone he can have feuds with. So the time is right for him to drop the title to Danielson. I say build up a match between them and have it climax on Wrestlemania 25 weekend in Texas with Danielson finally regaining the title.

 

[WrestlingHistorian]

Up until the past 7 or 8 months I was really thinking that Aries was going to become the first 2 time World's Champion, but when his train began to loose steam and Danielson began winning key matches and was awarded a shot on the last ROH PPV I was sure it would be Danielson. Needless to say both competitors lost and Nigel is still professional wrestling's World Champion, but as asked in the original post......who's going to finally beat him? Well I am going to answer that question with a question......who CAN beat him? When the belt is on the line Nigel seems to be a different man, he seems to pull out all of the stops and he digg's deep to find whatever it is he need's to find to come out of the bout with the title. It's uncanny, he is without a doubt the best in the world and he has proved it for a year and a half now, he is seriously on the verge of holding it for 2 years and beating Samoa Joe's reign as World's Champion. I am going to say that it will be Danislon eventually, but we may not be looking at this until maybe mid-summer or so. Danielson need's to focus on the new kind of training he has been doing and he needs to implement more of the MMA style moves he has been learning into his arsenal and then he may be ready to face Nigel for the title and come out the winner.

Nigel is really an amazing athlete and a great World's Champion, I am really torn as to weather I want him to actually lose the belt or not.

 

[waylon p]

if nigel drops the title soon, i can see either ares or danielson taking it, but what if it takes a while?

i say it could be anyone. danielson and ares are still obvious contenders, and either one could do the promotion proud as the first two time champ.

but if nigel's reign last a while, it could be tyler black, as so many are predicting.

but wait! isn't adam pierce in charge? if he still runs things at the end of nigel's run, don't be too suprised if it's someone noone could predict....like brent allbright.

 

[WrestlingHistorian]

if nigel drops the title soon, i can see either ares or danielson taking it, but what if it takes a while?

i say it could be anyone. danielson and ares are still obvious contenders, and either one could do the promotion proud as the first two time champ.

but if nigel's reign last a while, it could be tyler black, as so many are predicting.

but wait! isn't adam pierce in charge? if he still runs things at the end of nigel's run, don't be too suprised if it's someone noone could predict....like brent allbright.

Adam Peirce and Brent Albright are not going to come anywhere close to the title, and I fear the same for Aries as he seems content on not being in the title picture for now. I feel ROH needs a two-time World Champion so I would like to see Dragon win it, but I feel it's going to go to Black at this point.

 

[RVDgurl]

I think Nigel will be holding onto the belt for a while. ROH is just establishing themselves on national TV, which means there could potentially be a million new people just being introduced to the product. These new fans need to become familiar with the names and faces of the roster. Right now Nigel is the champ. The changeing of a championship so early in the game just doesn't seem logical at this point. Look for Nigel to surpass Samoa Joe's title reign.

 

[WrestlingHistorian]

I think Nigel will be holding onto the belt for a while. ROH is just establishing themselves on national TV, which means there could potentially be a million new people just being introduced to the product. These new fans need to become familiar with the names and faces of the roster. Right now Nigel is the champ. The changeing of a championship so early in the game just doesn't seem logical at this point. Look for Nigel to surpass Samoa Joe's title reign.

Yeah, the more and more I think about I begin to see Nigel surpassing Joe's reign, I really don't think Black is ready and I don't think ROH want's to do a title change so early in their television deal. Either way, Nigel has a chance to make history as the longest reigning World's Champion in ROH history, that is a huge feather in his cap.

 

[Shocky]

With ROH's new TV deal on it's way, I agree that Nigel is going to be holding onto that title for a while. Yes, HDNet isn't a huge network, and mostpeople might not even have it, but it's still a channel that focuses on MMA and that Audience is what ROH is shooting for.

I myself am getting pumped for the ROH show debuting next week, as I have only watched the shows on youtube. I'm expecting great things from ROH on a 44 inch television as opposed to a 4.4 inch box. I think that keeping Nigel as champion for a while would be perfect. He's a nice semi-recognizable name in the business, and he's got a great look to feed off of.

 

[JasonSensation]

I think Nigel will be holding onto the belt for a while. ROH is just establishing themselves on national TV, which means there could potentially be a million new people just being introduced to the product. These new fans need to become familiar with the names and faces of the roster. Right now Nigel is the champ. The changeing of a championship so early in the game just doesn't seem logical at this point. Look for Nigel to surpass Samoa Joe's title reign.

HA! If you refer back to the Ring of Honor thread, you will see that right around Nigel's one year mark, you milady, stood firm your grounds that Nigel wouldn't surpass Joe's length record or Dragon's defenses record.

Nigel will drop the belt to a wildcard... ROH has always prided itself on being unpredictable. Nobody expected Xavier to beat Low-Ki. Or Aries to beat Joe. Or Gibson to beat Punk. Or even Nigel to beat Morishima (although it was storied and made sense when really looked at). I am going to be the bold one in saying that Lynn, Black, Aries, and Danielson will fall short and Nigel, exhausted and battered from the harsh booking of his close defenses against these four tough challengers will end up losing the belt to someone no one will expect in a match where everything just plain goes wrong for the champ and it isn't necessarily a skill thing as it is a situational thing. It will be someone that we will all drop our jaws to and go "Wow, I wonder what ROH has in store now!" And it will happen in the second or third set of the TV tapings-or the PPV that those tapings build up. To make this threat a little more interesting, who do you think (besides the previously mentioned four and besides Paul London who I know isn't returning to ROH soon as he told me this himself personally) could possibly be that wildcard?

 

[WrestlingHistorian]

HA! If you refer back to the Ring of Honor thread, you will see that right around Nigel's one year mark, you milady, stood firm your grounds that Nigel wouldn't surpass Joe's length record or Dragon's defenses record.

Nigel will drop the belt to a wildcard... ROH has always prided itself on being unpredictable. Nobody expected Xavier to beat Low-Ki. Or Aries to beat Joe. Or Gibson to beat Punk. Or even Nigel to beat Morishima (although it was storied and made sense when really looked at). I am going to be the bold one in saying that Lynn, Black, Aries, and Danielson will fall short and Nigel, exhausted and battered from the harsh booking of his close defenses against these four tough challengers will end up losing the belt to someone no one will expect in a match where everything just plain goes wrong for the champ and it isn't necessarily a skill thing as it is a situational thing. It will be someone that we will all drop our jaws to and go "Wow, I wonder what ROH has in store now!" And it will happen in the second or third set of the TV tapings-or the PPV that those tapings build up. To make this threat a little more interesting, who do you think (besides the previously mentioned four and besides Paul London who I know isn't returning to ROH soon as he told me this himself personally) could possibly be that wildcard?

Bah, Paul London! I don't want this guy anywhere near Professional Wrestling's true World's Championship, I wouldn't mind him in ROH but not in the main event. I am hoping for Danielson or Aries mainly because I want the World's Title to have a two time champion, but I'll be happy if Nigel keeps it for another 6 months or so.

 

[RVDgurl]

HA! If you refer back to the Ring of Honor thread, you will see that right around Nigel's one year mark, you milady, stood firm your grounds that Nigel wouldn't surpass Joe's length record or Dragon's defenses record.

Very true! I never thought that Nigel would have held the belt this long- Although I do believe that if there were no tv deal, Nigel would be passing the torch much sooner. Now, I absolutely believe that ROH has to keep the belt on Nigel for at least another couple of months. It just makes sense.

Nigel will drop the belt to a wildcard... ROH has always prided itself on being unpredictable. Nobody expected Xavier to beat Low-Ki. Or Aries to beat Joe. Or Gibson to beat Punk. Or even Nigel to beat Morishima (although it was storied and made sense when really looked at). I am going to be the bold one in saying that Lynn, Black, Aries, and Danielson will fall short and Nigel, exhausted and battered from the harsh booking of his close defenses against these four tough challengers will end up losing the belt to someone no one will expect in a match where everything just plain goes wrong for the champ and it isn't necessarily a skill thing as it is a situational thing. It will be someone that we will all drop our jaws to and go "Wow, I wonder what ROH has in store now!" And it will happen in the second or third set of the TV tapings-or the PPV that those tapings build up. To make this threat a little more interesting, who do you think (besides the previously mentioned four and besides Paul London who I know isn't returning to ROH soon as he told me this himself personally) could possibly be that wildcard?

A wild card? Maybe. But I wouldn't count on that. I know that ROH has a history of keeping things interesting, but this tv has changed the game. The general public would be confused by Nigel dropping to someone who hasn't been built up as a contender. Right now, Danielson is definately the face of the company. Yes, I love him so I'm biased- but in all fairness he would be the logical choice to carry the belt next.

But who knows who ROH will build up to be a contender over the next few months. It is very possible, as you said, that Aries, Black and/or Danielson may not even be in the title hunt when it comes down to it.

 

[JasonSensation]

It is very possible, as you said, that Aries, Black and/or Danielson may not even be in the title hunt when it comes down to it.

Which is what I love so much about this company. More recently, the lines between mid-card and main event have been a bit bigger, but the talent level still justifies the notion that on any given night, most of the ROH roster could upend the champ in the right situation. I've always been outspoken in saying that I love when every title match is built up. Just like in MMA or boxing, I have never seen a World Title match that isn't treated like a big deal. What every company needs to realize is that their top belt should ALWAYS be the centerpoint of their promotion. Which is why it was always so important to put that title on someone who can handle the pressure of carrying a company to success. Nigel has done such a fantastic job. Just look at what he has overcome. He went from recieving chants of "drop the belt" to "this is awsome". I'm looking forward to seeing what Jay Briscoe does now that they are going to build him up as a singles star. For those that may remember, he started his ROH career in the singles division since, at the time, Mark was not legally allowed to wrestle in Pennsylvania. If you take a look at their singles records, they are chock full of disappointing losses. However, watching Jay's promo on the latest video wire made me want to see him succeed more than ever.