Comparing Kane VS Big Show last week to one in 1999

[Dream]

1999:
[YOUTUBE]ZmZ-HD1NUK0[/YOUTUBE]

2012:
[YOUTUBE]tg88lYTvSY0[/YOUTUBE]

As you can see..they are both on Raw and they are both DQ.

Now, here is my question to those who would like to answer. Who's fault is the enormous DOWNGRADE in quality? The wrestlers due to age? Or WWE's?

If you say age.. maybe it's simply time for these two wrestlers to retire. The match in 2012 was PITIFUL compared to earlier in their careers.

If you saw WWE.. why are they purposely downgrading the competitive action when there are other promotions gaining support?

In my opinion..WWE has purposely downgrade it's product. Now I don't see the PG rating having anything to do with this..I guess it's for safety reasons?

Whether it be the abundance of banned moves, lack of head shots with chars, absolute disappearance of any sort of "bumps"..it's pretty obvious to me. It just sucks, because we will still get a few great matches a year. But looking back on this match, which was probably forgotten by the following week in 1999, it would stand out today IMO.



BTW, I'm sorry if this is in the wrong section or has been discussed before.

 

[Jatkuva]

Kane can still go and put on good matches if need be as we saw in the love rectangle thingy with AJ, Bryan, and punk. The problem is that Big Show is out of shape and compared to then is slower and it just slows down the pace of the match and makes it way less more interesting.

 

[Vincent Michaels]

As you can see..they are both on Raw and they are both DQ.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious.

Now, here is my question to those who would like to answer. Who's fault is the enormous DOWNGRADE in quality? The wrestlers due to age? Or WWE's?

It was hardly a downgrade. Both were brawls with a decent spot here and there until the ending.

If you say age.. maybe it's simply time for these two wrestlers to retire. The match in 2012 was PITIFUL compared to earlier in their careers.

No, they were both decent. The spots were better in 1999 because they were younger, but that's all that was better. The match this year was about 3 minutes shorter too.

If you saw WWE.. why are they purposely downgrading the competitive action when there are other promotions gaining support?

They aren't you idiot. They've gotten older, thus they move slower so they cut the match by a few minutes. It was still the same match, just with less useles brawlng around ringside.

In my opinion..WWE has purposely downgrade it's product. Now I don't see the PG rating having anything to do with this..I guess it's for safety reasons?

Opinions can be wrong. It was cut down because of age, and the fact that they haven't had a good match against eachother in years.

Whether it be the abundance of banned moves, lack of head shots with chars, absolute disappearance of any sort of "bumps"..it's pretty obvious to me. It just sucks, because we will still get a few great matches a year. But looking back on this match, which was probably forgotten by the following week in 1999, it would stand out today IMO.

Actually, since you picked this match out for the comparison, doesn't that mean it did standout back then? And of course it would standout today, because they were both younger, more mobile, and thus able to put on a somewhat better match.

 

[Bernkastel]

If last weeks match between Kane and Big Sow was low quality, and I thought it was pretty good, it was most likely due to the allotted time allowed for the match. It was what? 5 minutes?

Based on what I saw tonight, both Kane and Big Show looked fine; not bad for a seven footer in his mid forties and a near 500 pounder pushing forty. Big Show still moves around as well as he did years ago, and Kane still regularly hits all of his high spots.

Last week Kane actually got a good looking chokeslam off on the Big Show, which is proof enough that the two can still compliment each other quite well.

 

[DDelaware2009]

Dream, I get the point you're trying to make and there is some validity to it - not sure this comparison totally drives it home, but I remember reading as early as 2002/2003 when the Triple H/McMahon relationship really got going that there was going to be a "slowing down of the product" so yes in some ways the matches have decreased in their "intensity"- less big spots, etc. and then the PG stuff - no head shots, no blood, etc.

But if you're looking for a bunch of people to join with you and pine for the Attitude Era, sorry man. Fact is, the wrestlers are performers but also commodities and in some cases need to be protected- selling out for a mid-show RAW match that goes 5 minutes just isn't smart using long-term thinking. Maybe they do that in the indys because those guys are selling-out to make it to the big time, but not in WWE.

That is not a judgment on any federation- WWE, TNA, or any Indy -its just a fact of how things stand at this point. This is what lack of competition does.

Work smarter, not harder, right?

 

[Dream]

If you guys think these two matches were anywhere near the same amount of quality..then I don't know. I 1000000% disagree. The enziguri by Kane alone made the 1999 match more entertaining. (Not to mention the outside brawl where Kane leaped off the railing, the leap from the top rope to the outside, big show flipping over the rail, powerbomb (which is illegal now, isn't it??) through an announcer's table)

Try watching the matches at the same time (with the volume turned down obvi)

If you still think they are just as good as each other..yeah, I don't know. I guess I have a higher standard

 

[Dream]

Dream, I get the point you're trying to make and there is some validity to it - not sure this comparison totally drives it home, but I remember reading as early as 2002/2003 when the Triple H/McMahon relationship really got going that there was going to be a "slowing down of the product" so yes in some ways the matches have decreased in their "intensity"- less big spots, etc. and then the PG stuff - no head shots, no blood, etc.

But if you're looking for a bunch of people to join with you and pine for the Attitude Era, sorry man. Fact is, the wrestlers are performers but also commodities and in some cases need to be protected- selling out for a mid-show RAW match that goes 5 minutes just isn't smart using long-term thinking. Maybe they do that in the indys because those guys are selling-out to make it to the big time, but not in WWE.

That is not a judgment on any federation- WWE, TNA, or any Indy -its just a fact of how things stand at this point. This is what lack of competition does.

Work smarter, not harder, right?

Oh, I'm not saying anything about the attitude era really. I'm just saying it's seemed the matches have slowed down tremendously when in fact, the athletes are bigger/stronger/faster really than ever.

I just don't get why we aren't getting more quality matches. We still get them, just not nearly as often as we used to.

And yeah, I guess.."work smarter, not harder"..but that really sucks for the fan and TBH I believe it's a direct reasoning for the downfall in ratings. There's just not as much "oh shit" moments like there used to be.

Shit.. the biggest thing I remember about growing up watching was the big bumps. Shane McMahon (NOT EVEN A WRESTLER ..) flying 60+ feet to land on the big show. Shit like that, if Vince was willing to let his son do it, why aren't trained professionals doing it?

 

[Bernkastel]

If you guys think these two matches were anywhere near the same amount of quality..then I don't know. I 1000000% disagree. The enziguri by Kane alone made the 1999 match more entertaining. (Not to mention the outside brawl where Kane leaped off the railing, the leap from the top rope to the outside, big show flipping over the rail, powerbomb (which is illegal now, isn't it??) through an announcer's table)

Try watching the matches at the same time (with the volume turned down obvi)

If you still think they are just as good as each other..yeah, I don't know. I guess I have a higher standard

Ah, you're complaining about the moves...

A very simple explanation is that the match in 1999 looks horribly unrealistic by today's standards. The Attitude Era was bloated with matches and spots that didn't make any sense. A heavyweight like Kane or Big show should be doing power moves and relying on strikes to overwhelm an opponent, not throwing enziguri's and dropkicks. It would be like Rey Mysterio body slamming people; it makes no sense.

Matches nowadays feature more limited moves to make matches seem more realistic.

 

[Dream]

Ah, you're complaining about the moves...

A very simple explanation is that the match in 1999 looks horribly unrealistic by today's standards. The Attitude Era was bloated with matches and spots that didn't make any sense. A heavyweight like Kane or Big show should be doing power moves and relying on strikes to overwhelm an opponent, not throwing enziguri's and dropkicks. It would be like Rey Mysterio body slamming people; it makes no sense.

Matches nowadays feature more limited moves to make matches seem more realistic.

Fair enough I suppose. But IMO those movesets were highly more entertaining. And pretty cool to see 'em. Made them actually seem like freak athletes.

 

[mral82]

Who cares about Quality as the best Show vs Kane match happened after they lost their Titles to the Spirit Squad as they put on a Mat Classic which I found surspringly technically awesome. Yes they are getting up in age but what do you expect from 2 guys their age and size a Rey Mysterio vs Juvy match.

 

[Jefferson Starships]

Ah, you're complaining about the moves...

A very simple explanation is that the match in 1999 looks horribly unrealistic by today's standards. The Attitude Era was bloated with matches and spots that didn't make any sense. A heavyweight like Kane or Big show should be doing power moves and relying on strikes to overwhelm an opponent, not throwing enziguri's and dropkicks. It would be like Rey Mysterio body slamming people; it makes no sense.

Matches nowadays feature more limited moves to make matches seem more realistic.

Personally, I think seeing Kane throw an Enziguri was pretty awesome, and I think he still could do it today, but Big Show can't move the way he used to, he's amased too much, well, mass. Big guys doing moves like that isn't unrealistic because they CAN do them and lets face it Rey can't bodyslam Kane or Show. Big guys doing little guys moves adds that little bit more aura to the matches.

I do agree that in the attitude era matches were a bit more high impact move to move without too much storytelling, but frankly I like that sometimes. I love techinical wrestling matches and I like high impact matches like Kane/Show from 99.

 

[lowandmighty]

Yeah there is a vast difference in quality between the two matches thats for sure. I didn't think they did all that bad for their age though and think the downgrade isn't as enormous as its made out by the poster but its definitely there.

Sadly the downgrade isn't the fault of the pg era or banned moves etc or even the fact the match in 99 was win the belt or lose Torrie for kane and big show had the belt to defend so it had motivation for both guys.
The reason for the downgrade is simply the age of the two guys. They're both in their 40's and Kane in the wrong half of his 40's. Big show is also about 100lbs heavier and much slower, Kane isn't as strong as he used to be and becoming frail. I'm sure Kane hurt his knee or something in the most recent encounter and wasn't faking it. Things like that these days could sideline him for good.

In 99 they were close to the age of elite sports people, pushing it a bit but around that age nonetheless. Now they're way over the age of most elite sports players and would have long been retired from sports like athletics, tennis and the various football codes.

We need to remember that wrestlers are athletes too and I think wrestlers wrestle too long. Even John Cena would probably be retired if he played a competitive sport and as much as I love these two guys and even remember when they were only young, sadly they've had their day now.

 

[Buffyx]

I think everyone is missing the major point here that differentiates the two matches.
The Kane vs Big Show match in 1999 was a main event match which makes it very different indeed - you cannot compare a hyped match to a standard mid-card match, there are countless matches you could do that with and it's discuss its decreased quality but what would be the point - it wouldnt realy be a true reflection of quality would it? Also because of the nature of the storyline it needed to be more of a brawl to sell the fact that if Kane lost then Tori would have to spent Christmas with Xpac! If you throw in all the DX, Hunter Hurst Helmsy Regime stuff as well, it makes for better viewing overall. There needed to be bigger spots in this match as not only was it meant to be a challenge for Kane, there was something much higher stake. Lets not forget it was also the 'ending' of special Christmas Raw.

Kane vs Bigshow the other week, was a mid card match, nothing special, they weren't fighting for anything big, and imo these two have fought each other countless times before that it was a little 'samey' and there was not much these two could really do other than drag it out longer. The only thing this match shown, was how 'dominant' the big show has become, nothing more than that - so it was a pointless match.

I think the Big Show is a limited character in the WWE and while Kane can still pull off the high flying moves which is still impressive for a near 7footer at his age - pitting these two agasint each other now was never going to be 'thrilling' or main event standard.

Kane deserves to be booked better - he was so much better in the AJ storyline and could have done so much more with that angle.

 

[DeathClutch]

13 years apart, 1000s of matches and multiple injuries incurred by both, different generations of style of matches it's easy to pick apart the matches.

Personally I didn't catch the NODQ 2012 match but I've followed Kane closely over the last 2 years (especially since MITB 2010) and he's raised his game beyond my expectations and he's looked good in doing so, he's put people over his storylines have been compelling and he's changed his persona he's evolving which has been needed for a while, and I'll go on a limb here, but December 2011-2012 present, Kane has been producing his BEST WORK IN YEARS dating back to the late 90s.

Big show on the other hand, he's one of these guys that fans connect with when he's a good guy, and loathed when he's a heel, but he gets stale so quick WWE need to keep swapping and changing him which kind of hurts the guy, but from October 2011-Now from what I've seen has been some top work from him, he put Henry over when most wouldn't, he put Cody over along with getting his Mania moment, Bryan as well even having a good feud with Cena over all people will moan that Big show/Kane are lacking but watch over the last 8 months and you'll see overall they've produced some awesome work (Kane/Orton @ Mania was one of favourite matches of year thus far) but you can't judge one match (NoDQ2012 match) that they're slowing down considering they've produced some good matches lately.

 

[Nate DaMac]

First of all, you do realize that this was 13 years ago, right? You're posting a video of a match featuring two guys wrestling 13 years ago and complaining that a match featuring the same 2 guys this year isn't as good.

What?

If you guys think these two matches were anywhere near the same amount of quality..then I don't know. I 1000000% disagree. The enziguri by Kane alone made the 1999 match more entertaining. (Not to mention the outside brawl where Kane leaped off the railing, the leap from the top rope to the outside, big show flipping over the rail, powerbomb (which is illegal now, isn't it??) through an announcer's table)

Try watching the matches at the same time (with the volume turned down obvi)

If you still think they are just as good as each other..yeah, I don't know. I guess I have a higher standard

This is where you lose all credibility. You're not a fan of great wrestling, you're a moves mark.

Both of these matches sucked ass to me. The first one was overbooked trash as was the norm in the 90's and the latter involved The Big Show in 2012. I'll pass on either one.

 

[Dream]

If I was a fan of great "wrestling" I would watch real wrestling, not scripted wrestling. That's why it's called PRO wrestling, World Wrestling ENTERTAINMENT.

You guys seem to forget the this era had the highest ratings, in part to the superstars, but also to the action. WWE now lacks this action.

FFS, Kane was knocked down for 10+ minutes from a clothesline. John Cena was down 10+ minutes from being thrown out the ring.

Terrible..SMH. These are freak athletes that are being paid top money. Nearly all independent promotions have better or the same quality matches.

 

[HBsam31]

I have never been a fan of matches the Big Show were in. I just don't like the big man style. I would much rather see Kane in the ring than The Big Show, and in my opinion both matches were not very good. The match that took place 13 years ago will be better just because the two are younger and quicker. It was also a main event match as opposed to a thrown together Raw match. It's not really fair to compare these two matches as so much time has passed between them.