Brett Favre: Where Do You Rank Him?

[X]

Disco.

Big Ben or Tony Romo?


Some Xfear Classics(Before the choke)

Why are you being such a dick? Did you just log on today and say "Hey, I think I'll be a complete and total asshole today because someone doesn't agree with me?"

My opinion has changed. Get over it, what does it matter to you? People can change their opinions, is that some kind of crime now?

Christ, you're starting to remind me of Big Ace.

Go ask any fucking person who has EVER played Pro Football, and ask them if they'd rather have a few great statistical seasons, or win a Super Bowl. Ever single fucking one would say the Super Bowl. Thats why this game is played. Stats mean jackshit if you don't win when it counts.

No shit there are 16 games before the playoffs, but guess what, none of those games mean a thing once the playoffs start. I hate the Giants, but guess what? They're the best team in the NFL. Why? Because they won when it counted. Are you seriously trying to argue with me that winning the Super Bowl doesn't mean you're the best team? THATS WHAT A FUCKING CHAMPIONSHIP GAME IS FOR.

I'm sorry that the world doesn't agree with you. But what does the fact that the Pats lost in the Super Bowl have to do with my opinion on Ben? Or Romo? We beat both of those teams, whipped both your Cowboys and Brian's Steelers like they were fucking pee-wee teams. My opinion began to change on Ben the day of the Monday Night Football game between the Steelers and Dolphins, where the field was almost all mud. The guys tough as nails, a lot tougher then pretty boy Romo.

Its my opinion. Get over it. No need to be so stubborn about it.

This is my last post relating to the Romo-Ben argument. It's just getting old, and I'm on the verge of flaming.

 

[Slyfox696]

you got to be kidding me? You can not say he has been more successful than Joe Montana, and a couple others.

We're talking greatest, not most rings. There's a major difference.

Favre owns every major passing record, is the only player in NFL history to be named MVP three times, he's appeared in two Super Bowls and has won 1. The only thing Montana has the advantage on Favre about is Super Bowl titles won. And considering both have won a Super Bowl, the difference in them isn't that great, especially considering that a football team has 22 starters.

Here's the way I see it. Whoever has won the most super bowls is the best player.

So, Robert Horry is a better basketball player than Michael Jordan?

When brett has an opportunity to set another record, or help his team win a game and give the spotlight to someone else, he will pick setting the record. to me that's very shallow.

What are you talking about? When has this ever applied.

 

[Slyfox696]

the only true measuring stick that people can make a case that brett is the best is the fact that he holds all the major records right now.

Well, that and he's the only player in history to win three MVPs. And the fact he set all those records with talent that wasn't half as good as what Montana or Aikman ever had. And, he still won one more Superbowl than Dan Marino.

 

[Moon Knight]

Well, that and he's the only player in history to win three MVPs. And the fact he set all those records with talent that wasn't half as good as what Montana or Aikman ever had. And, he still won one more Superbowl than Dan Marino.

He also lost one and never got back. Montana won 4 was the MVP in 3 and never threw an INT. Of course Brady won 3 super bowls with less than what Favre had. IMO.

 

[Slyfox696]

He also lost one and never got back. Montana won 4 was the MVP in 3 and never threw an INT.

So, best of all-time is decided by 1 game?

Favre has been to the promised land. He's a winner.

Of course Brady won 3 super bowls with less than what Favre had. IMO.

Hmm...I don't know. That'd be a thinker.

But, Brady hasn't had the career Favre has had yet, so he's not in the running...yet.

 

[Lil Wes]

Why are you being such a dick? Did you just log on today and say "Hey, I think I'll be a complete and total asshole today because someone doesn't agree with me?"

No just showing your hypocrisy

My opinion has changed. Get over it, what does it matter to you? People can change their opinions, is that some kind of crime now?

Not really but it's funny when you used word for word what I've been saying to you for a day or two now before and now Ben suddenly gets a contract after a good season, you switch you opinion. Ben did nothing better than Romo from that time last year..

Christ, you're starting to remind me of Big Ace.

I don't care.

Go ask any fucking person who has EVER played Pro Football, and ask them if they'd rather have a few great statistical seasons, or win a Super Bowl.

Stats along with the right peices to solve the puzzle will win the Super Bowl.

Ever single fucking one would say the Super Bowl. Thats why this game is played. Stats mean jackshit if you don't win when it counts.

Yes they do. That's how you rank overall play. FROM WHAT IS FUCKING DONE ON THE GODDAMN FIELD.

No shit there are 16 games before the playoffs, but guess what, none of those games mean a thing once the playoffs start.

Yes they do. That's why we have the HOF, MVP awards, and are currently talking about Brett Favre and where he ranks all time. Sure during the playoffs it means nothing to the team and the fans but once the playoffs are all over, you look back upon what was done the previous season and build off it.

Duh.

I hate the Giants, but guess what? They're the best team in the NFL.

That's bullshit. They aren't the best the Pats are, they added Moss which is what saved them.

Why? Because they won when it counted.

True but they are not the overall better team going into the season. That was last year, a whole new season has started and going into the Pats are the team to beat since coming off an 18-1, keeping Moss, and breaking numerous records and having an ok defense.

Are you seriously trying to argue with me that winning the Super Bowl doesn't mean you're the best team?

Yes.

Because give me 10 games and I guarantee you the Pats win 7 or 8 of them.

After the Super Bowl and playoffs are over, they mean jackshit, now it's time to build off of that starting in March and make it back to the championship game again. THATS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF AN OFFSEASON.

HATS WHAT A FUCKING CHAMPIONSHIP GAME IS FOR.

Just because they won it doesn't exactly mean they are the best team coming in.

If that's the case.

Boston would be the best team coming into the MLB season. Are they? No. The Angels look better and are more of a favorite. Closer that others.

Spurs won the NBA title. Were they the favorite coming into this season? No. Celtics were.

Colts won the Super Bowl last year. Were they the favorite coming into this season? Nope. Cheatriots were.

^^

I'm sorry that the world doesn't agree with you.

LOL. Why should they agree with you. Mr Only Playoffs matter. If that was the case let's take the 12 best teams on paper and let them play a playoff each year instead of a regular season.

But what does the fact that the Pats lost in the Super Bowl have to do with my opinion on Ben? Or Romo?

Sarcasm.

We beat both of those teams, whipped both your Cowboys and Brian's Steelers like they were fucking pee-wee teams.

Yep.

My opinion began to change on Ben the day of the Monday Night Football game between the Steelers and Dolphins,

Terrible game to base any opinion off of anyone or team on.

That field was ridiculous. I even chose to watch RAW....FUCKING RAW...over that game.

here the field was almost all mud. The guys tough as nails, a lot tougher then pretty boy Romo.

Someone hasn't seen the Bills, Lions, Eagles, Giants 1 and 2, Redskins and a few more games.

Bills mainly. Still bounces back after mistakes and numerous hits and wins the game for em'.

Its my opinion. Get over it. No need to be so stubborn about it.

Fair enough. I'm not being stubborn. I posted what you had previously said, that was great points.

This is my last post relating to the Romo-Ben argument. It's just getting old, and I'm on the verge of flaming.

Toodles.

 

[BooCocky]

We're talking greatest, not most rings. There's a major difference.

Favre owns every major passing record, is the only player in NFL history to be named MVP three times, he's appeared in two Super Bowls and has won 1. The only thing Montana has the advantage on Favre about is Super Bowl titles won. And considering both have won a Super Bowl, the difference in them isn't that great, especially considering that a football team has 22 starters.So, Robert Horry is a better basketball player than Michael Jordan?

So people like Joe Montana and John Elway take a back seat just because Favre holds all major passing records? When Favre has played 257 games to Montana's 192? When Joe Montana is ranked top five in basically all major passing records? When he and Elway have won more superbowls and are highly ranked in all major passing categories.

 

[BooCocky]

Not really but it's funny when you used word for word what I've been saying to you for a day or two now before and now Ben suddenly gets a contract after a good season, you switch you opinion. Ben did nothing better than Romo from that time last year..

besides lead his team to ten wins, while having one of the worst offensive lines in all of professional football. If i can recall Ben also had a higher QB rating, and he had a higher completion percentage.

Go ask any fucking person who has EVER played Pro Football, and ask them if they'd rather have a few great statistical seasons, or win a Super Bowl. Ever single fucking one would say the Super Bowl. Thats why this game is played. Stats mean jackshit if you don't win when it counts

Dan Marino said he would give up basically all his records for a ring. He said the records are great but you play for the ring.

He said that or something similar on the nfl today show

 

[Moon Knight]

So, best of all-time is decided by 1 game?

The best ever come thru when their teams need them and put up great numbers win or lose. Montana just stepped up better.

Favre has been to the promised land. He's a winner.

So is Elway, Aikman, Montana, Bradshaw and Brady.

Hmm...I don't know. That'd be a thinker.

Brady didn't have that much around him, not any great WR or even a great running game. In fact the Pats didn't even dominate any of those teams. I wouldn't call people like Givens and Branch great. Compare the 2 teams side by side, the Pats weren't as good as made out to be...Brady was and is.

But, Brady hasn't had the career Favre has had yet, so he's not in the running...yet.

I think he is, in less years he has won more super bowls and broke records. Thru this point in Brady's career I would put him in the top 10 atleast least top 15.

 

[Slyfox696]

So people like Joe Montana and John Elway take a back seat just because Favre holds all major passing records? When Favre has played 257 games to Montana's 192? When Joe Montana is ranked top five in basically all major passing records? When he and Elway have won more superbowls and are highly ranked in all major passing categories.

And Favre won his Superbowl, won more MVPs than Montana or Elway and IS the record holder of all major passing categories.

I mean, is it Favre's fault Montana wasn't as tough as he was?


And, Elway? Are you kidding me? Everyone knows Elway was a shell of his former self when he won those two titles. Giving Elway credit for those titles is like giving Dilfer credit for winning the Baltimore's title. If Elway isn't the best player on his own team at the time, how can you use that as an argument?

As far as Montana, if Favre had half of Montana's talent he would have won more Superbowls as well. You go down the list, and at almost every offensive position and many defensive postitions, the 49ers outclass the Packers in 1996.

The best ever come thru when their teams need them and put up great numbers win or lose. Montana just stepped up better.

He also had a hell of a lot of better players to throw to. Jerry Rice or Antonio Freeman...who do you take? Hand off to Roger Craig or Edgar Bennett...who do you take? Seriously.

So is Elway, Aikman, Montana, Bradshaw and Brady.

I agree. So how do we break that tie? How about pure numbers? Who has better numbers than Favre? Who has more MVPs than Favre?

Answer: No one.

Brady didn't have that much around him, not any great WR or even a great running game. In fact the Pats didn't even dominate any of those teams. I wouldn't call people like Givens and Branch great. Compare the 2 teams side by side, the Pats weren't as good as made out to be...Brady was and is.

Branch and Givens are no worse than Freeman or Brooks. And I'd say the Patriots defense was better than the Packers.

I think he is, in less years he has won more super bowls and broke records. Thru this point in Brady's career I would put him in the top 10 atleast least top 15.

I'd put him in the Top 10. But, we're not talking Top 10, we're talking best ever.

 

[Shocky]

So people like Joe Montana and John Elway take a back seat just because Favre holds all major passing records? When Favre has played 257 games to Montana's 192? When Joe Montana is ranked top five in basically all major passing records? When he and Elway have won more superbowls and are highly ranked in all major passing categories.

But you simply can't throw out the longevity of Favre either. The 257 games is an amazing accomplishment in it's own right. Plus Favre probably played in the most environmentally challenging environment in the NFL with the frozen Tundra. That's certainly not to discredit Montana or Elway, they both played in some shit as well with the wind of the Bay and the Snow at Mile High. You also have to consider to, especially with Montana, he had fucking Jerry Rice, the person that many experts call the greatest Player ever, not just WR. It's the old question, how many Super Bowls would Montana have one without Rice?

 

[BooCocky]

And Favre won his Superbowl, won more MVPs than Montana or Elway and IS the record holder of all major passing categories.

I mean, is it Favre's fault Montana wasn't as tough as he was?


And, Elway? Are you kidding me? Everyone knows Elway was a shell of his former self when he won those two titles. Giving Elway credit for those titles is like giving Dilfer credit for winning the Baltimore's title. If Elway isn't the best player on his own team at the time, how can you use that as an argument?

What? Are you kidding me? Elway had one of his best years in 1997. Statistically and everything. He also had a solid year in 1998. His leadership, and heart is what kept his team going. When his heart wasn't their he hung it up.

But you simply can't throw out the longevity of Favre either. The 257 games is an amazing accomplishment in it's own right. Plus Favre probably played in the most environmentally challenging environment in the NFL with the frozen Tundra. That's certainly not to discredit Montana or Elway, they both played in some shit as well with the wind of the Bay and the Snow at Mile High. You also have to consider to, especially with Montana, he had fucking Jerry Rice, the person that many experts call the greatest Player ever, not just WR. It's the old question, how many Super Bowls would Montana have one without Rice?

Hey Michael Jordan had Rodman and Pippen, Bradshaw had Stallworth, Swann, Bleier, Harris. its the talent you play with on both sides of the football, and Favre has had talent like Elway, and Montana.

thats like saying if Dan Marino had a running game, he would have destroyed the 80's and basically the 90's.

In a game of winning thats what you look at. Montana has 4 rings, and is statistically in top 3-5 in every major passing category. When the game is on the line, you give me Joe Montana and we're scoring a gw touchdown.

 

[Lil Wes]

Ok so this seems to be a big discussion on the boards, TV and me and Brian had a chat on MSN talking about where we would rank QB's. So the choices are really top 3, top 5 and top 10.

No matter what I think Favre stays in the top 10 after all he accomplished from being the best statisically QB ever to winning the Super Bowl. I do think he's a bit overrated by many as I'd place guys like Elway, Montana, Staubach and others before him depending on how far back you go. As Graham, Baugh, Unitas and others can also be put up there. I still say he's a top 10 QB no doubt. Just not more since the list should be based as all time.

This thread is basically for alots of banter and discussion. Carry on.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'm a bit torn on this, and I could see anywhere from top 3 to top 10, depending on how you choose to rate quarterbacks. To me, it's mainly about the impact you have on them game. Number one for me is Joe Montana, as winning four titles, and making it look as easy as he did are too much to pass up. The others i'd put above Favre are Elway, Otto Graham, and Johnny Unitas. Overall there's not a lot favre never did, so while I wouldn't call him the best, I'd say he's the most complete. #5 on my all-time list.

 

[Slyfox696]

What? Are you kidding me? Elway had one of his best years in 1997. Statistically and everything. He also had a solid year in 1998. His leadership, and heart is what kept his team going. When his heart wasn't their he hung it up.

Are you kidding me with that nonsense?

HE WASN'T EVEN THE FIRST OPTION ON THE TEAM! That went to TD, Terrell Davis. Who was MVP of the league the years Elway won? Favre was in 1997, and TD was in 1998.

When you're not even the best player on your own team, your Superbowl victories aren't really a good argument.

Hey Michael Jordan had Rodman and Pippen, Bradshaw had Stallworth, Swann, Bleier, Harris. its the talent you play with on both sides of the football, and Favre has had talent like Elway, and Montana.

When?

When did Favre have his Terrell Davis? When did he have his Schlereth, Zimmerman, and Nalen? When did his Shannon Sharpe come through? When did Favre get to hand the ball of to Roger Craig or Tom Rathman? When did he throw passes to Jerry Rice?

When did Favre have the talent Elway and Montana did on their Superbowl teams?

In a game of winning thats what you look at. Montana has 4 rings, and is statistically in top 3-5 in every major passing category. When the game is on the line, you give me Joe Montana and we're scoring a gw touchdown.

Great. Basketball is a game of winning, and Robert Horry is a better basketball player than Michael Jordan. Because he won 7 championships and Jordan only won 6. B.J. Armstrong is a better player than John Stockton. Luc Longley was a better center than Patrick Ewing.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that?

 

[BooCocky]

Are you kidding me with that nonsense?

HE WASN'T EVEN THE FIRST OPTION ON THE TEAM! That went to TD, Terrell Davis. Who was MVP of the league the years Elway won? Favre was in 1997, and TD was in 1998.

alright, 1997, John Elway, a 37 year old QB, throws for 27 Touchdowns, them most he has ever thrown in in his entire career. that year was with the best years of his prime, and he also threw 22 TD's in 1998 when he only started 12 games. His interception percentage was at the lowest of his career(1997). Are you seriously trying to tell me, Elway wasn't a contributor on his teams? Thats ridiculous and you know it.

When you're not even the best player on your own team, your Superbowl victories aren't really a good argument.

He was a pro bowler, and an all pro in 1997, you have to be kidding me. He was also a pro bowler in 1998. He was SB 33's MVP. hmm, he wasn't the best on that team

 

[Lil Wes]

Why is Xfear getting credit for my thread when his post to start it isn't even about the topic? Someone should delete that post at least.

I'm a bit torn on this, and I could see anywhere from top 3 to top 10, depending on how you choose to rate quarterbacks. To me, it's mainly about the impact you have on them game. Number one for me is Joe Montana, as winning four titles, and making it look as easy as he did are too much to pass up. The others i'd put above Favre are Elway, Otto Graham, and Johnny Unitas. Overall there's not a lot favre never did, so while I wouldn't call him the best, I'd say he's the most complete. #5 on my all-time list.

See I agree here. Alot of people seem to forget about the older QB's like Baugh, Tarkenton. Unitas etc.. because of the era they played in. All of them were so dominate in that time it's unbelieveable. Otto had like a record of 105-17 or something like that. Numerous MVP awards and pro bowl selections. These guys get singled out nowadays because the game is so much different.

 

[klunderbunker]

Otto went to I think 6 nfl championship games, and 10 title games in the ten years he was a pro qb. Granted his passing stats are nothing compared to todays, but it was a running game back then. For his time, Graham was the most dominant at his position period. 10 straight title games, no matter what league or era is phenomenal.

 

[Slyfox696]

alright, 1997, John Elway, a 37 year old QB, throws for 27 Touchdowns, them most he has ever thrown in in his entire career. that year was with the best years of his prime, and he also threw 22 TD's in 1998 when he only started 12 games. His interception percentage was at the lowest of his career(1997). Are you seriously trying to tell me, Elway wasn't a contributor on his teams? Thats ridiculous and you know it.

He wasn't even the best player on his team. THAT'S what I'm telling you.

He was a pro bowler, and an all pro in 1997, you have to be kidding me. He was also a pro bowler in 1998. He was SB 33's MVP. hmm, he wasn't the best on that team

Two words: Terrell Davis.

I mean, TD ran for 1700 yards in 1997, and over 2000 yards in 1998. Terrell Davis was the best player in the NFL, and you're trying to tell me he wasn't the best on his team?

 

[BooCocky]

He wasn't even the best player on his team. THAT'S what I'm telling you.

and you have nothing to back that up. Hey Terry Bradshaw had some stellar years, but you can give the credit to Franco Harris ... Aikmen had some good years, but give the credit to Irvin, and Smith.

Two words: Terrell Davis.

thats great. I shall applaud him.

I mean, TD ran for 1700 yards in 1997, and over 2000 yards in 1998. Terrell Davis was the best player in the NFL, and you're trying to tell me he wasn't the best on his team?

It's always great to have a good running back, but Elway was a key piece to his team both of those years, he was an all pro QB at 37, and was a pro bowler both years, by putting up some of his best numbers in years. Basically best year since 1995 or 1993,

 

[Slyfox696]

and you have nothing to back that up.

You mean besides TD's 1700 and 2000 yard years, the latter of which he was named the NFL's MVP?

It's always great to have a good running back, but Elway was a key piece to his team both of those years, he was an all pro QB at 37, and was a pro bowler both years, by putting up some of his best numbers in years. Basically best year since 1995 or 1993,

Key piece does not equal best player. Dennis Rodman was a key piece to the Bulls last three championships, but I wouldn't call him the best player, would you?

Point blank, Elway and Montana had more help than Favre ever did. Whether it be Dwight Clark, Jerrry Rice, Roger Craig, Terrell Davis, 3 All-Pro offensive lineman, Shannon Sharpe....Favre had none of that.

And he still is the first and only three time MVP, and holds all major passing records.

 

[Lil Wes]

See I dont get you Sly. You claim Davis was better and Elway wasn't the Elway of old when he won those 2 super bowls. He had some of his best years in 97/98 and were really no different from the years he had in his prime if you look at it.

 

[BooCocky]

You mean besides TD's 1700 and 2000 yard years, the latter of which he was named the NFL's MVP?

alright, fair enough, Elway had 27 touchdowns, and 3500 yds passing. Pro Bowler, and an all pro.

Key piece does not equal best player. Dennis Rodman was a key piece to the Bulls last three championships, but I wouldn't call him the best player, would you?

no i wouldn't call him the best, but Elway was a soon to be hall of famer, executing the offense, on the best team in the NFL. You take away Elway, and they're crap for the most part. and one of the reasons why Denver has a good line is because of the zone blocking scheme in which they execute.

Point blank, Elway and Montana had more help than Favre ever did. Whether it be Dwight Clark, Jerrry Rice, Roger Craig, Terrell Davis, 3 All-Pro offensive lineman, Shannon Sharpe....Favre had none of that.

hey, Favre could have benefitted from having Reggie White on the other side of the ball.

When Favre won the SB in 1997, he had 2 other pro bowlers on offense, and he had 3 on defense, and in 1996, he had pro bowlers and all pro players, so he did play with some talent. so don't give me that

 

[Slyfox696]

See I dont get you Sly. You claim Davis was better and Elway wasn't the Elway of old when he won those 2 super bowls. He had some of his best years in 97/98 and were really no different from the years he had in his prime if you look at it.

While I disagree that Elway was as good at the end as he was in his prime, answer me this question.

If Elway was just as good in 97/98 as he was in 92/93, then what was the difference in him winning those Super Bowls, and getting blown out in those Super Bowls?

Answer? The talent around him. When the talent around him got better, then Elway won his titles. When Elway had a team much more talented than what Favre ever had, THAT was when he won his Super Bowl.

 

[X]

...Why would someone start this thread with that particuliar post of mine which has nothing to do with Brett Favre?

Anyways, on the topic of Brett Favre, I'm torn. Sly gives good arguments, and Favre does own alot of records, but to me Favre will never be the best QB of all time for one simple reason; mistakes. He just made too damn many of 'em towards the end of his career. He had a great season last year to go out on, and don't get me wrong, I completely respect Favre. The guy is one of the all time greats.

But I just can't put him in that number one spot.

Here's what my Top 5 would look like:

1. Elway
2. Montana
3. Marino
4. Favre

And the fifth spot would be a tie because I can't put Young, Aikman, or Brady out.