Big Summerslam test for Bray Wyatt

[No Count Pup]

Bray Wyatt has had boring matches with John Cena, Chris Jericho, and Kane. To have a dull match with Cena, the franchise, is not a good sign. To have a match go flat with Jericho, a charismatic workhorse, is a red flag. To have a listless Ring of Fire match with Kane is telling.

In two of three matches with Cena, the matches arguably didn't even reach the three star level. The same goes for Kane. Three stars is debatable for the Jericho match, but it lacked sizzle. This is a problem.

Sure, I won't take away from his quality matches with Daniel Bryan at the Royal Rumble and with Cena (in Bray's third attempt) at Payback. And his matches against the Shield, in a protected setting, were excellent. But has Bray Wyatt proven that he can put on consistently high quality matches with main event talent? Does he bring out the best in his opponents. The answer is a resounding no.

SummerSlam this year will say a lot about Bray Wyatt. If he can't put on a three to four star match with Jericho on their second PPV attempt, I will seriously question Bray's viability as a main eventer. He's been in the WWE system for five years. The comparisons between Wyatt and Mankind are mentioned here or there, but are specious at best. Foley was compelling on the mic and in the ring. Look at his first 12 months in WWE. He was knocking it out of the park when he locked up with Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker, and Rocky Maivia. Granted, those were legendary opponents. But Mankind didn't need to be carried in any of those matches! In fact, he was HBK's best opponent during his title reign, and Taker's best opponent of 1996!

Bray needs to work on his in ring craft. If his match with Jericho flops, I hope he takes a hiatus from one-on-one matches and goes more into six man tags. What are your thoughts? Can Bray go in the ring? Does he have something to prove in the Jericho match? Should he re-tool if the match flops?

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Not sure what matches you were watching, but we weren't watching the same ones.

There is no way that Bray is dull in the ring, his matches with Cena brought a lot of good stuff out of John as well as him raising his game. What you are calling boring is actually a different style that is more psycological than based on high spots or 5 moves of doom.

He is in the same situation Taker was, not Foley. Taker took several years to grow into the main eventer. For may years he was like Wyatt, it was only when he started getting put with Bret, Austin et al that he learned quickly and became the legend we know him as. Jericho and Bray are telling a story, just as Cena and Bray did... he will win at Summerslam but not as you might expect. But not everyone is going to be "workrate, workrate,workrate"... Bray is going to be slower, more methodical in the ring cos the character works that way...

 

[Slick21]

I don't think a few slow matches or spot mishaps he made with Jericho in the ring isn't something to panic over his current status. Bray has already proved that he's great worker in the ring. His absences from wrestling matches on TV might be bit a of a nuisance and is something they might want to keep on deck, but other than that, it's really nothing too serious. His work ethic makes up for everything.

 

[laodaron]

Not sure what matches you were watching, but we weren't watching the same ones.

There is no way that Bray is dull in the ring, his matches with Cena brought a lot of good stuff out of John as well as him raising his game. What you are calling boring is actually a different style that is more psycological than based on high spots or 5 moves of doom.

He is in the same situation Taker was, not Foley. Taker took several years to grow into the main eventer. For may years he was like Wyatt, it was only when he started getting put with Bret, Austin et al that he learned quickly and became the legend we know him as. Jericho and Bray are telling a story, just as Cena and Bray did... he will win at Summerslam but not as you might expect. But not everyone is going to be "workrate, workrate,workrate"... Bray is going to be slower, more methodical in the ring cos the character works that way...

Yeah, sorry, not buying it.

He's just not that good in the ring. His presence is very noticeable, but his actual in ring skill is severely lacking. His match against Jericho cemented that fact. He's caught in that terrible spot where his gimmick is main event, but his talent just isn't there yet.

And comparing Bray to either Taker or Mick is a disrespect to both of them, much like comparing either one of them at age 27 or 28 to Bruiser Brody or something. The comparison is undeserved and premature at best.

 

[Degenerate88]

Not sure what matches you were watching, but we weren't watching the same ones.

How dare you speak for me, or anyone else when you say "we". Bray Wyatt IS boring and bland. You marks gotta hop off of the guys lap. He's yet to do anything entertaining. Cena couldn't make him look good. Jericho can't. Bryan couldn't. It's none of their faults, it all comes down to Wyatt. He's a mid-carder for life.

 

[CyberPunk]

Bray Wyatt has had boring matches with John Cena, Chris Jericho, and Kane. To have a dull match with Cena, the franchise, is not a good sign. To have a match go flat with Jericho, a charismatic workhorse, is a red flag. To have a listless Ring of Fire match with Kane is telling.

In two of three matches with Cena, the matches arguably didn't even reach the three star level. The same goes for Kane. Three stars is debatable for the Jericho match, but it lacked sizzle. This is a problem.

Sure, I won't take away from his quality matches with Daniel Bryan at the Royal Rumble and with Cena (in Bray's third attempt) at Payback. And his matches against the Shield, in a protected setting, were excellent. But has Bray Wyatt proven that he can put on consistently high quality matches with main event talent? Does he bring out the best in his opponents. The answer is a resounding no.

SummerSlam this year will say a lot about Bray Wyatt. If he can't put on a three to four star match with Jericho on their second PPV attempt, I will seriously question Bray's viability as a main eventer. He's been in the WWE system for five years. The comparisons between Wyatt and Mankind are mentioned here or there, but are specious at best. Foley was compelling on the mic and in the ring. Look at his first 12 months in WWE. He was knocking it out of the park when he locked up with Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker, and Rocky Maivia. Granted, those were legendary opponents. But Mankind didn't need to be carried in any of those matches! In fact, he was HBK's best opponent during his title reign, and Taker's best opponent of 1996!

Bray needs to work on his in ring craft. If his match with Jericho flops, I hope he takes a hiatus from one-on-one matches and goes more into six man tags. What are your thoughts? Can Bray go in the ring? Does he have something to prove in the Jericho match? Should he re-tool if the match flops?

Bray has a very different pace. I am yet to find a match which was completely boring. The only match I can say was not very interesting was his match against Cena at Extreme Rules (a lot of it has to go to how the match was overbooked). He has delivered good to great matches against Bryan, Cena and Jericho.

It also boils down to what pace entertains you. As much as I like a fast paced match, I also love psychologically engaging match. His match against Cena at Mania was perfect example of that. I don't think this particular match against Jericho would really halt or fast track his push. He's doing fine. His character has to have a slow methodical pace when he controls a match. If you're expecting top rope hurricanranas or missile drop kicks or a spotfest, be prepared to be disappointed.

 

[No Count Pup]

Not sure what matches you were watching, but we weren't watching the same ones.

There is no way that Bray is dull in the ring, his matches with Cena brought a lot of good stuff out of John as well as him raising his game. What you are calling boring is actually a different style that is more psycological than based on high spots or 5 moves of doom.

Sure Bray is slow, methodical, and psychological. But that doesn't mean he has to be dull.

He's got the gimmick of a lifetime, but he's got the limitations of Husky Harris.

I'm not looking for him to become the next Bret Hart or Kurt Angle. I wouldn't want to see him become the next Mankind. I'm just hoping there's a Bray Wyatt 2.0, a wrestler who can bring some sizzle to the main events. I believe SummerSlam will way a lot about who he is as an in-ring competitor.

 

[laodaron]

Bray has a very different pace. I am yet to find a match which was completely boring. The only match I can say was not very interesting was his match against Cena at Extreme Rules (a lot of it has to go to how the match was overbooked). He has delivered good to great matches against Bryan, Cena and Jericho.

It also boils down to what pace entertains you. As much as I like a fast paced match, I also love psychologically engaging match. His match against Cena at Mania was perfect example of that. I don't think this particular match against Jericho would really halt or fast track his push. He's doing fine. His character has to have a slow methodical pace when he controls a match. If you're expecting top rope hurricanranas or missile drop kicks or a spotfest, be prepared to be disappointed.

Let's be really honest for a second. None of his matches with Cena were that good, and Cena is known for his ability to pull the best possible matched out of his opponents. Jericho's match with him was actually just bad. You can try and blame Jericho for that, but Chris Jericho is an icon, also known for being able to squeeze the maximum out of someone in the ring. The evidence is there, but Wyatt fans keep ignoring it. He's not good in the ring.

Also, it is entirely plausible to have a steady paced match, loaded with psychology, that isn't a plodding mood killer.

 

[CyberPunk]

Let's be really honest for a second. None of his matches with Cena were that good, and Cena is known for his ability to pull the best possible matched out of his opponents. Jericho's match with him was actually just bad. You can try and blame Jericho for that, but Chris Jericho is an icon, also known for being able to squeeze the maximum out of someone in the ring. The evidence is there, but Wyatt fans keep ignoring it. He's not good in the ring.

Also, it is entirely plausible to have a steady paced match, loaded with psychology, that isn't a plodding mood killer.

I am being really honest. In your opinion his matches with Cena were "not that" good. In my opinion, they were. His match with Jericho was not a 'great' match, but it was good. His matches will have slower pace compared to others because there is lot of theatrics and taunting involved. Plus they definitely would've wanted to preserve a better match for Summerslam. May be they'll add some stipulation as well.

I never said that a fast paced match cannot be psychological. However, in Bray's matches you'll not get that kind of pace. His character dictates a slower pace.

I am not saying you have to like his matches. I am just saying that I don't have the same opinion as yours about what makes a good match.

 

[laodaron]

Right, but my opinion generally follows the wrestling critic's opinion. For instance, Cena v. Punk in 2011 was a 5 star match. I would agree. Cena v. Wyatt in 2014 were all bad except LMS, which was carried almost exclusively by Cena, and even that would have BARELY popped a 3 star in the same system.

I'm not saying that you can't like watching Bray Wyatt in the ring. What I'm saying is that by every single metric that is used in judging wrestling matches, he's not that good in the ring. His gimmick is main event level. His talent is not.

Just so we're clear, plenty of very famous talents were not very good in the ring, and they operated on a much different level. Ultimate Warrior. Hogan. Andre. There are plenty more in the modern age, too. Not being that good in the ring is not cause for losing a push or disappearing. I'm only trying to keep the conversation on what's real, though, not on made up metrics.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Tell me one 5 star match Taker had after his debut until after Mabel crushed his orbital bone. They didn't exist because he was limited as a worker at that point and working with monsters who were more limited, It was only after the injury they realized they had to go a different direction with him. The moment he started working with the likes of Bret and Austin he improved exponentially and in a very short space of time. The ability was there but if you're fed a diet of monsters then you're not growing as a worker... once he faced the proper guys he was learning at a rate far beyond what anyone could expect... That's Taker's "gift" and it's very often missed and misrepresented that he was this "legend" all along, he wasn't...

Bray is in a similar position and the hope is he will learn in a similar way to Taker, that is why they are putting him with the guys they are. Cena helped him learn how to handle a main event match and the pressure, Bryan how to tell a great story within the gimmick and now Jericho is there to help him with the mechanics of a great feud and hopefully a better match. Remember who this guys dad is, he's not some roob with no clue... he KNOWS how to wrestle, but he has a bodyshape etc that doesn't allow for him to be the "cookie cutter" work rate guy we've gotten used to... his pace is going to be slower, more based on spots and taunts and he will improve... but your issue is the same as WWE's... you want it NOW... not at the appropriate rate... has to be now, if he's not doing it NOW then he's failing cos you need him to be this great main eventer NOW...

The guy has been on the roster barely a year, a wrestler less than 5... Taker had been wrestling 10 years when he got to that point in 96 where he became the "super sponge" of wrestling knowledge or rather was given that chance. Even when Taker began to main event for the title more in 96/97 he wasn't winning all the time and was still not this "legend" people refer to... it was only after that period that he actually showed the experience learned and thus was able to quickly pass it to Kane.

You cannot judge Wyatt yet in the ring... enough people are enjoying him and disagreeing with your hipster negativity to say that he is doing fine... instead of focusing on what you feel isn't right, focus on what is and give the kid time to actually benefit from the experience his gaining in these feuds... It's not Jericho's job to have 5 star matches with Bray now... it's his job to help him grow as a worker and as a heel so that when they do the next feud with them in a while it IS 5 star and that Bray IS a 5 star heel for the future... not the next Chris Jericho in the ring cos they got a bunch of em...

You don't like his pace or taunts... tough, they're among the best out there... you tell me there isn't money when Rocky goes for the People's Elbow only to see Bray has raised into the Spiderwalk pose for example... not everyone has to be a bump machine or a stellar flyer or even a great brawler... he's a bigger guy, let him be a bigger guy...

To paint this as a make or break test is out and out ridiculous... It's part of Bray's education and path, nothing more... stop expecting it NOW NOW NOW and it will come in it's natural time... look how long it's taken Cody to seem effortless like he currently does with Stardust...

 

[laodaron]

Tell me one 5 star match Taker had after his debut until after Mabel crushed his orbital bone. They didn't exist because he was limited as a worker at that point and working with monsters who were more limited, It was only after the injury they realized they had to go a different direction with him. The moment he started working with the likes of Bret and Austin he improved exponentially and in a very short space of time. The ability was there but if you're fed a diet of monsters then you're not growing as a worker... once he faced the proper guys he was learning at a rate far beyond what anyone could expect... That's Taker's "gift" and it's very often missed and misrepresented that he was this "legend" all along, he wasn't...

The Undertaker had one 5-Star match in his career. A Hell in a Cell v. Shawn Michaels. He then had three 4.75 star matches: 2009, 2010, and 2012. But let's get past that for a second. The Undertaker, probably the most iconic wrestler to make it through the AE, the RAE, and now the Modern Era, is in a league of his own. To even insinuate that Bray Wyatt is anywhere near the career of the Undertaker is straight up dishonest.

But that's not even the point. From the moment he debuted at Survivor Series, he was considered a top level worker. It was exactly a year later that he was a heel and he took the title from Hogan. He feuded with Jake Roberts, Macho Man, Warrior, and Hogan in that time.

Bray is in a similar position and the hope is he will learn in a similar way to Taker, that is why they are putting him with the guys they are. Cena helped him learn how to handle a main event match and the pressure, Bryan how to tell a great story within the gimmick and now Jericho is there to help him with the mechanics of a great feud and hopefully a better match. Remember who this guys dad is, he's not some roob with no clue... he KNOWS how to wrestle, but he has a bodyshape etc that doesn't allow for him to be the "cookie cutter" work rate guy we've gotten used to... his pace is going to be slower, more based on spots and taunts and he will improve... but your issue is the same as WWE's... you want it NOW... not at the appropriate rate... has to be now, if he's not doing it NOW then he's failing cos you need him to be this great main eventer NOW...

No, he's no where near the level. He's been handed extra chances because of who his dad is, that's about it. Hell, Bo is a much more entertaining heel.

His body shape isn't the problem. Bubba Ray Dudley is one of the great wrestlers of all time. Mark Henry will be in the HoF. It's not the body shape, it's the actual in ring talent that's lacking.

The guy has been on the roster barely a year, a wrestler less than 5... Taker had been wrestling 10 years when he got to that point in 96 where he became the "super sponge" of wrestling knowledge or rather was given that chance. Even when Taker began to main event for the title more in 96/97 he wasn't winning all the time and was still not this "legend" people refer to... it was only after that period that he actually showed the experience learned and thus was able to quickly pass it to Kane.

Um, Bray Wyatt has been wrestling for over 5 years now. He debuted at FCW in 2009. So, if you're going to say that the Undertaker had been in wrestling for 10 years, Bray has been in for 5. But, like I said, within the Undertaker's very first year, he feuded with every single major player in the WWE. So, in those respects, the Undertaker and Bray are similar. Given every chance to get over in the first year. The Undertaker did it. It's yet to be seen what Bray is going to do.

You cannot judge Wyatt yet in the ring... enough people are enjoying him and disagreeing with your hipster negativity to say that he is doing fine... instead of focusing on what you feel isn't right, focus on what is and give the kid time to actually benefit from the experience his gaining in these feuds... It's not Jericho's job to have 5 star matches with Bray now... it's his job to help him grow as a worker and as a heel so that when they do the next feud with them in a while it IS 5 star and that Bray IS a 5 star heel for the future... not the next Chris Jericho in the ring cos they got a bunch of em...

Hipster negativity? Sorry, it's the Bray FANS that are the hipsters, and cheering the bad guy cause he's different, man.

I'm the biggest mark for pure professional wrestling. Good guy v. bad guy. A heavy hitting brawl. No spots necessary. I don't need high flying, maybe a single cross-body from the top rope, but that's it. Otherwise, I want to see a great wrestling match.

Unfortunately, Bray can't offer that yet. I'm not saying he won't ever, or that it's not possible. I'm saying that he spent more time on the gimmick than he did on learning ring mechanics.

You don't like his pace or taunts... tough, they're among the best out there... you tell me there isn't money when Rocky goes for the People's Elbow only to see Bray has raised into the Spiderwalk pose for example... not everyone has to be a bump machine or a stellar flyer or even a great brawler... he's a bigger guy, let him be a bigger guy...

The spider thing is dumb, and so is singing He's got the Whole World. We all know that. But, saying "If you SMELLLLELELELELELELELLLLL waht the Rock...is cooking..." is also dumb, so that argument is flawed from the start.

To paint this as a make or break test is out and out ridiculous... It's part of Bray's education and path, nothing more... stop expecting it NOW NOW NOW and it will come in it's natural time... look how long it's taken Cody to seem effortless like he currently does with Stardust...

So, after how many poor matches that Bray wrestles are fans of professional wrestling and the WWE allowed to decide that Bray Wyatt isn't that good? What number would you like to institute as the required amount of subpar matches with 4 and 5 star performers we are forced to watch before we're allowed our own opinions?

Also, Cody has been praised by fans and critics for how good he's always been. Matter of fact, Legacy was pretty huge for a while. The Stardust thing is new, and it took him about 2 or 3 matches on Raw to get it down.

 

[Navi]

Personally I don't care about how many stars a match gets. And would venture to say that some of my favourites didn't even make 1 star, but it's each to his own.

I was a fan of Bray Wyatt, he's gold on the mic, but am finding him kind of boring in the ring now. And really getting sick and tired of the shenanigans from the other two interfering all the time. I know they're supposed to but when you have to have two matches just to keep them away from ringside, that's pretty ridiculous. Just have HHH come out and say, they are banned.

Still think that Harper is the stand out of the group, and a much better wrestler than Wyatt any day of the week. For a big guy, he's fantastic.

 

[laodaron]

Still think that Harper is the stand out of the group, and a much better wrestler than Wyatt any day of the week. For a big guy, he's fantastic.

I agree with this completely, and almost said it earlier. This guy can really go. I don't know if they could clean him up for a singles career, but man, I enjoy watching him in the ring. As far as I'm concerned, that's what in ring psychology is supposed to look like.

 

[No Count Pup]

So, after how many poor matches that Bray wrestles are fans of professional wrestling and the WWE allowed to decide that Bray Wyatt isn't that good? What number would you like to institute as the required amount of subpar matches with 4 and 5 star performers we are forced to watch before we're allowed our own opinions?

Bingo. I think there is enough body of work to determine that Bray Wyatt's matches aren't up to par. I don't understand why he is so protected by the IWC.

I would imagine he's a likable and humble person backstage. But the bottom line is his matches are boring. He would do well to take a page out of Luke Harper's book. Not to say that Harper is a savant, but I find that his matches have a better flow and are more entertaining than Bray's.

 

[laodaron]

To be clear and to be fair, I believe that Bray Wyatt has a long term main event career in front of him. But as the consumer, it appears that he is currently not prepared to give us that level of entertainment, yet.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The Undertaker had one 5-Star match in his career. A Hell in a Cell v. Shawn Michaels. He then had three 4.75 star matches: 2009, 2010, and 2012. But let's get past that for a second. The Undertaker, probably the most iconic wrestler to make it through the AE, the RAE, and now the Modern Era, is in a league of his own. To even insinuate that Bray Wyatt is anywhere near the career of the Undertaker is straight up dishonest.

But that's not even the point. From the moment he debuted at Survivor Series, he was considered a top level worker. It was exactly a year later that he was a heel and he took the title from Hogan. He feuded with Jake Roberts, Macho Man, Warrior, and Hogan in that time.


No, he's no where near the level. He's been handed extra chances because of who his dad is, that's about it. Hell, Bo is a much more entertaining heel.

His body shape isn't the problem. Bubba Ray Dudley is one of the great wrestlers of all time. Mark Henry will be in the HoF. It's not the body shape, it's the actual in ring talent that's lacking.


Um, Bray Wyatt has been wrestling for over 5 years now. He debuted at FCW in 2009. So, if you're going to say that the Undertaker had been in wrestling for 10 years, Bray has been in for 5. But, like I said, within the Undertaker's very first year, he feuded with every single major player in the WWE. So, in those respects, the Undertaker and Bray are similar. Given every chance to get over in the first year. The Undertaker did it. It's yet to be seen what Bray is going to do.


Hipster negativity? Sorry, it's the Bray FANS that are the hipsters, and cheering the bad guy cause he's different, man.

I'm the biggest mark for pure professional wrestling. Good guy v. bad guy. A heavy hitting brawl. No spots necessary. I don't need high flying, maybe a single cross-body from the top rope, but that's it. Otherwise, I want to see a great wrestling match.

Unfortunately, Bray can't offer that yet. I'm not saying he won't ever, or that it's not possible. I'm saying that he spent more time on the gimmick than he did on learning ring mechanics.


The spider thing is dumb, and so is singing He's got the Whole World. We all know that. But, saying "If you SMELLLLELELELELELELELLLLL waht the Rock...is cooking..." is also dumb, so that argument is flawed from the start.



So, after how many poor matches that Bray wrestles are fans of professional wrestling and the WWE allowed to decide that Bray Wyatt isn't that good? What number would you like to institute as the required amount of subpar matches with 4 and 5 star performers we are forced to watch before we're allowed our own opinions?

Also, Cody has been praised by fans and critics for how good he's always been. Matter of fact, Legacy was pretty huge for a while. The Stardust thing is new, and it took him about 2 or 3 matches on Raw to get it down.

No No No...

Mark Calloway did not debut his career in 1990 as The Undertaker. He had a career that spanned Texas, Memphis and NWA/WCW before he signed with Vince, he was about a 5 year veteran when he debuted at Survivor Series. Exactly where Bray is about now. He was Texas Red, Mean Mark, part of the Skyscapers managed by Teddy fricking Long before he walked the aisle with Brother love that first time. He DID NOT just walk into the WWE totally green, but he was also NOT anywhere near a polished worker, just a unique one, which is Bray right now.

Undertaker didn't feud with "every top player" in that first or even 6 years, certainly not on TV. They fed him Rhodes on the road and then Snuka, didn't even use him at Summerslam 1991 and then had him beat and job to Hogan in days... not cleanly either and he didn't get the title again until 1997. Did he even get a title match? Oh yeah, the one with Yoko and 12 guys beating him into the coffin.

Get over this imaginary "legendary early career" Mark Calloway had, he didn't have it until they changed him up 10 years after World Class.

He wasn't used seriously in WWE as a main eventer title wise, he was an attraction for the first major part of his run. He wasn't working with the top guys, he was working Kamala, Giant Gonzales, Brian Lee and Mabel at those first Summerslams... Those were nowhere near the top guys, my point with him is had they done that and had him v Bret, Shawn etc in 1993-94 he would have improved anyway and sooner cos that was his skill to learn from opponents quickly.

It would have been easy to use Bray the same way but they are resisting that and spending appropriate time to make sure he succeeds over time. Their "must hit now" guy is Reigns seemingly, but they need guys for him to have those epic feuds with in a year, 18 months time...that's what they are setting Wyatt up to be.

Look at it this way, if Reigns was to seriously be the new Hogan, that means he is going to need serious challengers. Wyatt doesn't fit anyone else from that first era but size wise the closest would be Big Bossman who had a solid feud with Hogan as part of the Twin Towers.

You don't like Wyatt, we get it. You don't have to... but he's not going anywhere and he will get many more chances because what he does bring to the table is unique, exciting and enjoyed by the majority. Don't like it, head to the concession stand but you'll probably miss the main event... stick with your El Torito match if you'd prefer.

 

[laodaron]

Mark Calloway debuted in 1984, and Windham Rotunda debuted in 2009. Earlier you claimed that in 1996, the Undertaker had 10 years experience, but that currently, Bray Wyatt only has 1. You were wrong. What's the point of that anyway? Cena only had a few years, but Stone Cold took almost a decade to get to his levels.

The actual history, you're just going to keep your opinion on that, even though the evidence is there that says the opposite. Also, not being used on PPVs back then was normal and part of it unless your name was Hogan.

From almost the minute he debuted in the WWF, The Undertaker was main event. There were a few years in the middle where they didn't know who to put him with, I'll grant you that, but that's hardly relevant when discussing Bray Wyatt.

Also, I've made it abundantly clear that I DO like Bray Wyatt. I think that he's going to be a big star one day. I just realize that he needed more time in developmental to learn some in ring technical skill, of which he currently has minimal amounts.

 

[Brushfire]

To be clear and to be fair, I believe that Bray Wyatt has a long term main event career in front of him. But as the consumer, it appears that he is currently not prepared to give us that level of entertainment, yet.

Which is perfectly fine in by book considering he is only 27 (I think?). I'm willing to give him a few more years before I write him off as "boring" and start demanding 3*+ matches, personally.

 

[laodaron]

Which is perfectly fine in by book considering he is only 27 (I think?). I'm willing to give him a few more years before I write him off as "boring" and start demanding 3*+ matches, personally.

But since he's being pushed as a Main Eventer/Upper Mid Carder, it's fair judgement. If he was fighting Ziggler, I wouldn't have anything to say, and I'd be happy with the product. But, instead, his last 4 matches were Cena, Cena, Cena, Jericho, and out of that, not a single 3 star? That's difficult to accept.

 

[No Count Pup]

Which is perfectly fine in by book considering he is only 27 (I think?). I'm willing to give him a few more years before I write him off as "boring" and start demanding 3*+ matches, personally.

Scrutiny comes with the territory. He faced the franchise at a landmark WrestleMania. In his PPV debut match, he faced Kane in his trademark match. He has stepped in the ring with Daniel Bryan and Chris Jericho. He was placed in the MITB closing match. When you tangle with main eventers, you are subject to the highest scrutiny.

Bray Wyatt is not a lost cause. But he's got a long way to go. At the present time, he is not a main event worthy. Bray may need to take a few steps back before he can move forward.

 

[Aquaman6686]

Bray Wyatt has had boring matches with John Cena, Chris Jericho, and Kane. To have a dull match with Cena, the franchise, is not a good sign. To have a match go flat with Jericho, a charismatic workhorse, is a red flag. To have a listless Ring of Fire match with Kane is telling.

In two of three matches with Cena, the matches arguably didn't even reach the three star level. The same goes for Kane. Three stars is debatable for the Jericho match, but it lacked sizzle. This is a problem.

Sure, I won't take away from his quality matches with Daniel Bryan at the Royal Rumble and with Cena (in Bray's third attempt) at Payback. And his matches against the Shield, in a protected setting, were excellent. But has Bray Wyatt proven that he can put on consistently high quality matches with main event talent? Does he bring out the best in his opponents. The answer is a resounding no.

SummerSlam this year will say a lot about Bray Wyatt. If he can't put on a three to four star match with Jericho on their second PPV attempt, I will seriously question Bray's viability as a main eventer. He's been in the WWE system for five years. The comparisons between Wyatt and Mankind are mentioned here or there, but are specious at best. Foley was compelling on the mic and in the ring. Look at his first 12 months in WWE. He was knocking it out of the park when he locked up with Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker, and Rocky Maivia. Granted, those were legendary opponents. But Mankind didn't need to be carried in any of those matches! In fact, he was HBK's best opponent during his title reign, and Taker's best opponent of 1996!

Bray needs to work on his in ring craft. If his match with Jericho flops, I hope he takes a hiatus from one-on-one matches and goes more into six man tags. What are your thoughts? Can Bray go in the ring? Does he have something to prove in the Jericho match? Should he re-tool if the match flops?

Bray Wyatt is not and will never be a main event caliber performer. He's a midcarder for life. He simply doesn't have the skills to be a top superstar. His in-ring skills are sorely lacking, and his promos are repetitive and boring. The fans have already started to tire of him. He's the same thing as Ryback - just because you have one or two pieces of the puzzle, doesn't mean you have what it takes to be a main event talent. Wyatt's time feuding with top stars should come to an end after his feud with Jericho, and he should settle firmly into the midcard.

 

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Bray will do fine. hes great and both him and Jericho held back at payback, but they will go all out, and pull off a good match i think.

 

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I think he's legit. I expect his match with Jericho at Summerslam to be one of the best matches of the night.

He should bring it at Summerslam. Jericho hadn't been active in over a year prior to Battleground so I'd give them the benefit of the doubt they still have to work on their chemistry.

If their match at Summerslam is a dud, Wyatt just need to spend time in the mid card, putting on quality matches.

 

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Bray Wyatt has had boring matches with John Cena, Chris Jericho, and Kane. To have a dull match with Cena, the franchise, is not a good sign. To have a match go flat with Jericho, a charismatic workhorse, is a red flag. To have a listless Ring of Fire match with Kane is telling.

Guys like Daniel Bryan and Dolph Ziggler are okay on the mic. They can get a crowd behind them, but if you put both of them together in a promo battle, it's pretty dull. So instead, you put them in the ring with guys like The Miz and Bray Wyatt, who are great on the mic, and can elevate these guys promo skills just by being with them.

But there's an implicit bargain that those guys have to help Miz and Wyatt in the ring. You can't expect Miz to carry some rookie to a great match. But if you put Miz with Jericho, Bryan or Ziggler, you'll see him make some magic. That's because there are some guys who are meant to be ring generals, and others who bring other things to the table.

You're not supposed to expect Kane, Bray, Miz, or Big Show to put on great matches. If they had a horrible match, it's because they were either booked against each other, or the ring general let them down.

Chris Jericho most definitely let Bray Wyatt down, the same way he let down Fandango last year. Remember that awful botched finish at WrestleMania? Jericho is in spectacular shape for his age, but he's definitely not in his prime. Sure, he's had spectacular matches with CM Punk, Dolph Ziggler and Daniel Bryan, but those are other ring generals. He's slowly transitioning to the other role of the guy who is great at promos and getting people to care about a feud, but needs some help carrying the match. That's not a criticism. He's still a highlight of the show even when not at 100%. Plus, he can still pull a good match out of Miz, so he definitely still has a lot of it in him.

But that being said, you can't blame Bray Wyatt if their match at SummerSlam is a dud. You can't expect Bray to put on 5-star matches when put with Kane and John Cena, and apparently not even Chris Jericho. But you saw what happened at Royal Rumble. He went in there with the best pound-for-pound wrestler in WWE, and he came out with a 4-star classic.

Bray can only go so far as Chris Jericho will take him. The ball is in Jericho's court. I just hope that Bray's next feud is with guys like Dolph Ziggler and Sheamus who could definitely help Bray put on another great match on par with his great promo skills.