Come Back Rock
Dark Match Jobber
How bout The Rock. In 2003, he was the best heel. he was a highly entertainment superstar when he fought against Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold, and Goldberg. not to metion the fact he carried all of those matches.
Best Heel Ever
- Thread starter Monkey_Mania
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Woah, woah, WOAH. How the HELL did the Rock carry those matches in any way shape or form?
All three of those matches were carried by BOTH men, with the exclusion of the Goldberg match because that match was absolute garbage and one of the worst I have ever seen. But against Hogan, both times, perfectly carried by both men, and against Austin, perfectly carried by both men.
May I ask your reasoning behind your idea that Rock carried those matches?
All three of those matches were carried by BOTH men, with the exclusion of the Goldberg match because that match was absolute garbage and one of the worst I have ever seen. But against Hogan, both times, perfectly carried by both men, and against Austin, perfectly carried by both men.
May I ask your reasoning behind your idea that Rock carried those matches?
Come Back Rock
Dark Match Jobber
The Rock is a pure athlete. In 2003, The Rock was 30 years old and in the best shape of his career.
At the 2003 No Way Out , Hulk Hogan had seen better matches in his day. when The Rock fought Hulk Hogan, Hogan was doing a piss poor job of making the match memorable (like Wrestlemania 18). when the rock fought Hulk Hogan in 2003 Hogan had no olfence of defence. The Rock just whipped his 53 year old ass all over the mat.
However when the rock fought Stone cold at WM19 that was an awesome match. But lets face it, Stone Cold is a wash up bum who at what time could carried a match. But after Wm18 his heart or body wasnt into it anymore.
LAST Goldberg. Enough F**king said. Goldberg sucks. He had 2 moves during Backlash of 2003.....Spear/Jackhamer. That match made The Rock look so weak. If it wasnt for The Rock having fun with the crowd and really selling Goldberg's 2 olfensive moves that would of been the biggest hype match disapointment ever. (except Lensar/Goldberg Wrestlemania 20)
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At the 2003 No Way Out , Hulk Hogan had seen better matches in his day. when The Rock fought Hulk Hogan, Hogan was doing a piss poor job of making the match memorable (like Wrestlemania 18). when the rock fought Hulk Hogan in 2003 Hogan had no olfence of defence. The Rock just whipped his 53 year old ass all over the mat.
However when the rock fought Stone cold at WM19 that was an awesome match. But lets face it, Stone Cold is a wash up bum who at what time could carried a match. But after Wm18 his heart or body wasnt into it anymore.
LAST Goldberg. Enough F**king said. Goldberg sucks. He had 2 moves during Backlash of 2003.....Spear/Jackhamer. That match made The Rock look so weak. If it wasnt for The Rock having fun with the crowd and really selling Goldberg's 2 olfensive moves that would of been the biggest hype match disapointment ever. (except Lensar/Goldberg Wrestlemania 20)
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I can understand where you might come from on the Hogan and Goldberg, but I have to disagree strongly with the Austin comment.
Austin is a washed up bum? Since when? Austin could get in the ring tomorrow and still be great, he's a legend of this business, and his match with The Rock required BOTH men to carry each other, or else it never would've worked. That was their third WM match, and the only one that Rock one, and it wouldn't have worked without Austin's selling, jobbing, and fantastic moves.
Anyways, thats all I'm going to say on the topic.
Austin is a washed up bum? Since when? Austin could get in the ring tomorrow and still be great, he's a legend of this business, and his match with The Rock required BOTH men to carry each other, or else it never would've worked. That was their third WM match, and the only one that Rock one, and it wouldn't have worked without Austin's selling, jobbing, and fantastic moves.
Anyways, thats all I'm going to say on the topic.
Come Back Rock
Dark Match Jobber
Dont get me wrong. I put my middle finger in the air and open a 6 pack of beer whenever i know stonecold is going to be on the square-footed-circle. And all 3 of his matches with the Rock were classics.
However, if you were to watch all the Rock/Austin matches you will become aware that The Rock carried their match @ WM19
Oh. P.S. If Stone Cold were to come back and PERFORM in the WWE, he would become another old bum just trying to make more money like Hulk Hogan and match would totally suck.
However, if you were to watch all the Rock/Austin matches you will become aware that The Rock carried their match @ WM19
Oh. P.S. If Stone Cold were to come back and PERFORM in the WWE, he would become another old bum just trying to make more money like Hulk Hogan and match would totally suck.
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dj420
Guest
best heel ever wow hhmmm Flair was a bigger name back in the day so you would think he was the baddest heel in the horsemen but I think TULLY BLANCHARD was the real bad ass. I would say him the crowd really hated that guy. Check out the Horsemen promos on youtube they cheer and half way cheer for everybody until Tully spoke then it was like oh hell no booooooo!!! I hated that guy at age 4 or 5 now that I look back I loved him.
But yeah Edge is the man right now though
But yeah Edge is the man right now though
IrishCanadian25
Going on 10 years with WrestleZone
I still am coming under a bit of fire for my choice, so please allow me a moment to reiterate my reasoning, especially for the gentleman whose bag was stolen by Snoop. We are not debating the best heel "wrestler" because if we were, it wouldn't be much of a debate past Ric Flair. We are debating the best "HEEL" plain and simple. A heel is anyone who ellicits negative emotions, and for my money, few did that better than Yokozuna. The Intrepid Bodyslam challenge was an event that today would fall flat on its face. Yokozuna wasn't supposed to be able to do much in the way of "moves" but his seeming indestructability and contempt for America (through his mouthpeice Mr. Fuji) made people genuinely care about watching him beaten.
The poster above me named "Tarp" brings up the German angle played by Baron von Raske, and he adds creedence to my point whether he wanted to or not. It's cultural, not athletic. WWE is a morality play, always has been, and while fans today have gotten wise to the whole "good vs evil" plotline, before kayfabe was obliterated the Yokozuna character was the best heel for the dollar.
I also did not grow up in Flair's heyday, so I cannot speak beyond what I saw from him from 1991 on, aside from what I read in his book and what I saw on the horseman DVD, both of which make me respect him more, not loathe him.
The idea that HHH is the best heel ever is a valid one, but I place him 4th. (Yoko, Slaughter, Flair, HHH). People flocked to NYC to see Yoko get slammed, Slaughter got death threats, Flair started riots, and HHH frustrated millions (as a HUGE Jericho groupie I understand the Penn State Massacre that HHH pulled.) But I stand by my point - Yoko = #1. Can someone create a poll for this and bring it to a vote?
The poster above me named "Tarp" brings up the German angle played by Baron von Raske, and he adds creedence to my point whether he wanted to or not. It's cultural, not athletic. WWE is a morality play, always has been, and while fans today have gotten wise to the whole "good vs evil" plotline, before kayfabe was obliterated the Yokozuna character was the best heel for the dollar.
I also did not grow up in Flair's heyday, so I cannot speak beyond what I saw from him from 1991 on, aside from what I read in his book and what I saw on the horseman DVD, both of which make me respect him more, not loathe him.
The idea that HHH is the best heel ever is a valid one, but I place him 4th. (Yoko, Slaughter, Flair, HHH). People flocked to NYC to see Yoko get slammed, Slaughter got death threats, Flair started riots, and HHH frustrated millions (as a HUGE Jericho groupie I understand the Penn State Massacre that HHH pulled.) But I stand by my point - Yoko = #1. Can someone create a poll for this and bring it to a vote?
metrulz1987
New Member
Def. Triple H
Cracker5000
Great Khali Mark
I can't believe that hardly anyone has mentioned Ted Dibiase. He was a real bastard (kayfabe). He knew how to piss people off by flashing his cash, kicking a basketball away from RVD when he was a kid or just with that evil laugh.
u all will have 2 excuse me because i started watching wrestling in the late '90s. but im doin my research on youtube lol for old school matches cuz i dont know alot about old school wrestling. well i have alot of choices. HHH(ALWAYZ LOL) Shawn Michaels('92 or '93-'94, DX '97 especially after he screwed Bret) The Rock(Corporate Champ, and Sellout '03) Austin(Invasion angle) Chris Jericho('99,'01,'02,'03) Muhammed Hassan even though i hated him he still had more heat then Triple H did dat the time. Kurt Angle like the other person said he could beat anyone without having to use a weapon or any outside interference Edge(when he was with Christian in '00-'01, then in '05 with the real-life love triangle with Hardy and Lita, then '06 when he invaded Cena's house b4 Summerslam and assulted his dad even though it was fake his ass still got heat 4 it). Randy Orton(Evolution '02-'04, then in '05 with the whole Undertaker angle) Brock Lesner(from his beginning in '02, then he became the monster heel in the summer of '03-Wrestlemania 20 i was scared that he would actually kill someone in the ring. the man was scary) then every kid's favorite wrestler John Cena(in early '03-late '03. if i remember right it was before that Survivor Series when the people started cheering him. the "thug" gimmick that was pure perfection. Vince should make a few changes.) Shane McMahon(Corporate-Ministry, McMahon-Helmsley Regime/Era then in '06 with the whole DX/McMahon angle) imo he is the future Vince. its just sumthing he's missing. in the words of J.R. "The Demon Seed", The Air Parrot to the McMahon Empire", and one of my favorites "The Flesh and Blood of Satan's Role Model" lol J.R. is the best
and last but not least. yes u guessed it "The Chairman of the Board" VINCENT KENNEDY McMAHON. in the words of J.R. lol "Satan's Role Model" and my favorite of all-time "He will no doubt host a hostile take over in Hell when he gets there" lol-SummerSlam '06. Vince has all of the arrogance in the world. He tried to start his own damn religion "McMahonism" lol. but i could go on and on about what he's done(the man's done ALOT) but im just gonna shorten it up and say that HE IS PURE GOLD
and last but not least. yes u guessed it "The Chairman of the Board" VINCENT KENNEDY McMAHON. in the words of J.R. lol "Satan's Role Model" and my favorite of all-time "He will no doubt host a hostile take over in Hell when he gets there" lol-SummerSlam '06. Vince has all of the arrogance in the world. He tried to start his own damn religion "McMahonism" lol. but i could go on and on about what he's done(the man's done ALOT) but im just gonna shorten it up and say that HE IS PURE GOLD
TheOneBigWill
[This Space for Rent]
I'm not sure if anyone has said him or not, cause I didn't go entirely through the 7 pages.. but.. in my opinion, the best heel was Muhammad Hassan. Hands completely down, the guy had so much heat, they had to ultimately release him. He couldn't even be repackaged into anything other than the character he played.
rockofhysteria
Occasional Pre-Show
My pick for best Heel is Vince Mcmahon cause he has done so much both in front of the cameras and behind the scenes to piss off fans that I can't see anyone in the business as a bigger heel than Vince.
Two come to mind as the greatest heel ever.
The Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase. His gimmick was just so perfect for wrestling. Everything about it was incredible. I think he was one of the greatest of his time. I miss his whole image. I think the WWE should bring him back some how as the leader of the new Million Dollar Team. Then again stables don't work as well anymore, look at Survivor Series. It's dead.
The next greatest heel was also the greatest face of all time. Hollywood Hogan.
Who was a better bad guy than Hogan?? Nobody. He was the best good guy AND the best bad guy in wrestling history. EVERYBODY hated him. Except me of course. I was all about the NWO. Especially Hogan's NWO. Even when it split with the Wolfpac, I represented NWO Hollywood for life. What is better than Hogan leading the most hated group in wrestling. Spray painting people in the eyes (flair), spray painting peoples bad hips after beating them to a pulp (piper), spray painting peoples bald heads (goldberg). Cheating to win. He was legitimately the greatest wrestler the world has ever seen. Maybe not technical wrestler or talent wise. But what he did for wrestling both as a good guy and bad guy is something you just can't replicate.
Hogan
The Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase. His gimmick was just so perfect for wrestling. Everything about it was incredible. I think he was one of the greatest of his time. I miss his whole image. I think the WWE should bring him back some how as the leader of the new Million Dollar Team. Then again stables don't work as well anymore, look at Survivor Series. It's dead.
The next greatest heel was also the greatest face of all time. Hollywood Hogan.
Who was a better bad guy than Hogan?? Nobody. He was the best good guy AND the best bad guy in wrestling history. EVERYBODY hated him. Except me of course. I was all about the NWO. Especially Hogan's NWO. Even when it split with the Wolfpac, I represented NWO Hollywood for life. What is better than Hogan leading the most hated group in wrestling. Spray painting people in the eyes (flair), spray painting peoples bad hips after beating them to a pulp (piper), spray painting peoples bald heads (goldberg). Cheating to win. He was legitimately the greatest wrestler the world has ever seen. Maybe not technical wrestler or talent wise. But what he did for wrestling both as a good guy and bad guy is something you just can't replicate.
Hogan
Holy crap. I could not think of a better explanation. I remember watching Hogan go to the nWo. He drew so much heat. People were throwing things in the ring and you could barely hear the audio if you were watching on TV. I watched in horror and swore at the television as a child in front of my mother... thats how much that moment pissed me off.
Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase is another extremely obvious choice. The Basketball incident sums it up perfectly. The man was an arrogant asshole who bought his way through everything and that is one thing that many people cannot stand.
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damianolson
Guest
I would say guys like savage, bichoff, rick rude, earthquake, adrian adonis, killer kowolski, mr fugi, the qubeckers, vader, goldust, roddy piper, capt. lou, I know my spelling sux but i hated all these dudes at one point in time
The Sheik. Nobody else has ever come close. He invented and perfected almost everything all those others do today. Only the Sheik could turn Abdullah the Butcher and Freddie Blassie into babyfaces.
Lots of really good heels, though. Rick Rude, Flair, of course, Gorgeous George, Dibiase, Killer Kowalski, Maurice Vachon until he turned face, and a host of great managers (Red Berry, Creachman, the Wizard).
Plus some heels who were just too classy to be really hated -- Bockwinkel, Gene Kiniski, Pampero Firpo. Sky Low Low. Sweet Daddy Siki. Muta.
Lots of really good heels, though. Rick Rude, Flair, of course, Gorgeous George, Dibiase, Killer Kowalski, Maurice Vachon until he turned face, and a host of great managers (Red Berry, Creachman, the Wizard).
Plus some heels who were just too classy to be really hated -- Bockwinkel, Gene Kiniski, Pampero Firpo. Sky Low Low. Sweet Daddy Siki. Muta.
the best heels in my opinion were Bret Hart in USA and Shawn Michaels in Canada during the 1997 Hart Foundation days. Two interviews stand out in my mind by Michaels as the loudest i have ever heard a crowd boo.... Halifax on July 20, 1997 (On Youtube) and of course his Montreal interview back in 2005. On the flipside the family values segment that Bret did was a very close third, i though someone might kill him there too lol. Ahh... I still worship him though.
I still, to this day, believe that the Montreal Screw Job was a hoax. I think it was carefully orchestrated and was extremely planned. There are too many coincidences that happened.
If you ever watch "Wrestling with Shadows" the Bret Hart documentary from around 1997 or 98...you will sit back and watch very skeptically. Bret Hart's documentary camera's were coincidentially and perfectly everywhere they should have been. Bret Hart purposely and "coincidentially" wears a wire on him before the meeting of the Survivor Series match against Shawn Michaels. During the aftermath, Bret Hart's wife (in an outrage) is yelling at everyone in the back locker room and then starts yelling at Triple H but doesn't call him by his real name...in which if you are seriously pissed off...you would....she calls him "Hunter"...which is just not believable.
What do you guys think? I think it was carefully staged and a whole lot of BS to compete with the already dominant WCW and NWO gimmicks of that time. WWF was falling into the crapper at the time and was struggling for material...this apparently was the best they could come up with.
- Hogan
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xDeaddreams
Guest
Edge/Mr Kennedy - As of right now, these two are the strongest and most entertaining heels in my opinion.
Lee
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No it's Supermod!
I'm going to go with a slightly different option...
I see HHH, Hogan, Y2J, Edge, Flair, The Rock, Austin, Angle, Bret Hart, HBK and even McMahon. But all of them have had a very successful face run as well.
I'm going to go for a team of people who after this gimmick as heels were utterly destroyed. I'm going with the Right To Censor. Every member of that stable were destroyed afterwards, either leaving WWE or stuck in a jobber role. Val Venis, The Goodfather, Bull Buchanan, Ivory, The Cat and Steven Richards. And never have I seen a group so hated, I mean come on who wants to like a team who ban boobs? And the heat they got after Chyna's injury to her neck, my goodness.
JUst thought I'd throw a random team out there, it's for your own good!
I see HHH, Hogan, Y2J, Edge, Flair, The Rock, Austin, Angle, Bret Hart, HBK and even McMahon. But all of them have had a very successful face run as well.
I'm going to go for a team of people who after this gimmick as heels were utterly destroyed. I'm going with the Right To Censor. Every member of that stable were destroyed afterwards, either leaving WWE or stuck in a jobber role. Val Venis, The Goodfather, Bull Buchanan, Ivory, The Cat and Steven Richards. And never have I seen a group so hated, I mean come on who wants to like a team who ban boobs? And the heat they got after Chyna's injury to her neck, my goodness.
JUst thought I'd throw a random team out there, it's for your own good!
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luisd14
Guest
the best heel is mr.kennedy and mr.machmahon
R
RKO is d best
Guest
The best heel ever is Randy Orton. No doubt about it. Although wouldn't you guys really want to see randy to turn tweener. I think he would be amazin facing the likes of edge on smackdown for the W/H title, as they never really started a proper fued with each other after Rated RKO split up.
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