Are Jericho's title reigns underrated?

[Ferbian]

First off I'd like to apologize if this thread has been made before, couldn't really find anything about it, and I apologize too if I posted it in the wrong forum section, but I figured this was the most fitting place to post it in.

So anyway..

Lets look at the statics.

Jericho has been a 6 time World Heavyweight Champion, and combined his reigns has only lasted 186 days. (15 days as WCW champion, one reign not lasting any days considering it was declared defunct, 98 days as WWE (undisputed) champion, and currently 73 days as World Heavyweight Champion, counting ofcourse, and lets say Edge beats jericho at wrestlemania, making his reign lasting about 103 days if I got it right)

He has reigned for 318 days as Intercontinential Champion, now I know what you're thinking, that's long, even thou it's 9 reigns, but considering 7 of his reigns has lasted below 40 days each, thats not exactly very long if you ask me.

He has reigned 1 days as European Champion, need I say more?

He had a single reign as Hardcore Champion that lasted 0 days, now that's nothing big really considering like 80-90% of the reigns lasted less than 1 day..

he Reigned one time as WWE Tag Team Champion (well 2 really, but his reign as champion didn't really become vacated or anything during the time he was searching for a new partner after Edge got injured), lasted 168 days with Big show, actually also being his longest reign with a title.. ever, only supporting my idea that his reigns has been underrated as hell.

And last, he has had 4 reigns as World Tag Team Champion, lasting 267 days, but as mentioned above, he held the WWE Tag Team Championship for 168 days, making 3 of his World Tag Team reigns lasting 99 days, one only lasting 8 days (with The Rock).

Now that we've looked at the statistics, lets get some personal opinions into play.

Personally I think Jericho's reigns are underrated alot considering the fact that he's helped WWE alot, really working solid at forming new talent, he has really had some great matches with numerous people, and he has been very over with the crowd as the good guy Y2J, and a great heel as the bad guy Chris Jericho, even as the bad guy version of Y2j.
And I really think Jericho of all people deserves some longer title reigns because of that, and because to me Jericho is what a heel champion should be like, he's cocky (refering to his Promo this monday where he bragged about going to Wrestlemania) and he brings pride to the titles (if you ask me).

Sure he has held numerous titles, he's a 6 time World Champion, which is more than the average wrestler can brag about, and he is already Hall of Fame bound.

So let me hear your opinion, do you think Chris Jericho's title reigns in WWE has been underrated, appropriate or overrated, and why?

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I'm going to separate this into two categories: his midcard reigns and his world title reigns.

His midcard reigns were rated correctly in my opinion because they set out what they intended to do- put somebody over. I can't be bothered to list his midcard reigns so I will put two of his recent ones. He had a great match with Shelton Benjamin at Taboo Tuesday in 2004 and put Benjamin over. Benjamin was hot at that time and it was the right thing to let him get the Intercontinental Championship. That was the best point of Benjamin's career and him winning the title furthered that. Fast forward to last year when he and Mysterio had a series of great matches. Those matches raised the prestige of the IC title and made it a title worth fighting for instead of being a sidenote in matches (i.e. HHH vs. Flair). So I think that Jericho's midcard reigns were rated correctly.

Now on to this world title reigns. I'll say that they are overrated and I'm not going to focus on what happened during his reigns because I've discussed that in great detail in the past. I'm going to focus on what happened after the reigns.

I don't know if it is Jericho's fault but you see a difference between when he is champion and when wrestlers like Cena, HHH, and Orton are champions. When Cena, HHH, and Orton lose world titles, you best believe that they will be in the title hunt soon after. That seems not to be the case with Jericho. I'm not going to talk about his WCW Championship reign but his undisputed one.

I questioned why Jericho was made the first undisputed champion when it would have been plausible to have Rock and Stone Cold fight to unify the titles since they were both champions but that's neither here nor there. After Jericho lost to HHH at Wrestlemania 18, he basically was shoved back to the midcard feuding with a rookie by the name of John Cena and even losing to him on occasion. His reign starting at Unforgiven 2008 would end a month or so later at Cyber Sunday to Batista and for whatever reason won it back eight days later.

He would lose that title to Cena at Survivor Series and got a rematch with him at Armageddon but after that, the Rourke situation followed with led to Jericho fighting two broken down men and Steamboat at Wrestlemania.

My point is that after each Jericho world title reign, he seems to be relegated to the midcard soon thereafter. I guess that could be a sign that Jericho can step in that role if you need him but how much does it affect his legacy that he does not have staying power as champion that a HHH or a Cena has. That is why his world title reigns are overrated in my opinion but his midcard reigns are rated correctly.

 

[Ferbian]

First off Jerry, the part about the Intercontinential title match against Rey Mysterio could've been great even if Jericho was allowed to retain, which he didn't, all thou it would've ment Rey Mysterio lost his mask, it could've been booked otherwise so that Rey wouldn't loose the match, and Jericho could've remained champion, hence furthering a title reigns prestige rather than furthering the fact that the title gained the estimation of being worth fighting for, even thou it just changed hands once more (after 21 days of reign, which I believe has been a highly complained matter about the world titles because it changed hands that quickly, but why shouldn't the Intercontinential title be allowed the same complaining rants?)

Secondly, I would've figured the reason why Jericho wasn't in the title hunt after loosing the Undisputed Championship was because obviously WWE was fighting hard to put the title on as many as bloody possible in the shortest period of time (I believe it nearly changed hands by every PPV afterwards, with a few exceptions perhaps).

And something tells me Triple H would've become the first Undisputed Champion had he not been out for an injury, and the reason why Stone Cold or The Rock had not become the champions was because they already had a distinquished background as champions, giving the title to Jericho freshened up the main event picture.

And personally as I don't see the best solution in ever bumping him down to the mid card again, considering he could've easily had some better reigns, or atleast one longer title reign that didn't have him loosing the title quickly after he gained it (with 1-2 PPV's in between) and I think it's a slight mistake the fact as you mentioned, he does not have the staying power as a champion, because I think giving Jericho a staying position in the main event, atleast for a longer while, would be a good thing for the business, taking into consideration the fact that he does quite a good job at elevating talent, giving him a main event position would allow him to elevate the younger people like Kofi Kingston, John Morrison, R-truth etc. into the main event picture we'd obviously like to see them in.

Edit (This is to the first phrase of text, about the IC title match): Even thou Jericho went on to feud with numerous tag teams, and hold the title for a fair long time (thank god.... erh.. I mean Vince) which also did something for the business of talent, I still remain at the thought that Jericho could've done so much more to the Intercontinential title rather than the tag team titles, even thou he did give Big Show a purpose, but obviously The Miz is doing a good job at filling that spot now, so something tells me someone else could've easily filled that spot alongside Edge at the start, and then in the end Big Show.

And perhaps Jericho couldn't have had the awesome matches with Dolph Ziggler that Rey had, but I have a thought that they could've been quite good anyway, or give the championship fights to John Morrison, so we don't need the heel VS heel situation, even thou that could push Jericho into a "Tweener" position, giving him more possibilities to fight, basicly anyone.

 

[Dan E. Inferno]

Well, I'm just going to talk about his world title reigns and I have to agree with LJL in saying that his title reigns are overrated, if anything.

The main reason I look at them as overrated is because the fact that he is a six time champion implies he is a great world champion. Whenever Jericho is in the ring, the commentators will mention Jericho's six title reigns as if that's all they need to say to describe how good the guy is. However, Jericho is just not considered serious world title material by WWE like Cena, HHH, Orton and Undertaker are. For the record, that's just how I see his status in WWE. Personally, I'd love to have seen Jericho with a lenghtly world title reign. In my opinion, none of his title reigns were anything special and, like you mentioned ferbian, they were mostly transitional.

Like LJL said, he is seen as someone who can step up and compete for or even win the world title, but not as someone who can keep that title and run with it. I'm not sure whether this is because of his smaller frame compared to the wrestlers I previously mentioned or whether they just see him as Mr Reliable, as in someone who can bounce between mid card and main event and do a good job regardless. Another possibility is maybe they don't think Jericho can draw like Cena or HHH, and they'd probably be right.

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter why Jericho isn't considered a permanent main eventer by WWE. The fact is that his title reigns are kept incredibly short and booked strangely and therefore they can't possibly be seen as underrated. It's similar to Edge, who has had nine incredibly short title reigns. The reigns themeselves can't be rated too highly as they mostly lasted four weeks max. However, Edge's reigns are taken more seriously by me because he is ALWAYS in the hunt for the world title and has been consistently for four years. Jericho moves up and down the card so often, often putting other wrestlers over. This makes him a great worker but not a great world champion. Therefore, his world title reigns have to be considered, in my opinion, overrated.

 

[TKO 3:16]

I think jericho is one of the best in the buisness to day at what he does. He is great on the mic and his in ring skills are main event status. But, to say that all of his title reigns were "underrated" is pushing it a little. I can think of plenty more superstars with underrated title reigns, how bout, mankind, bobby lashley, kurt angle, booker t, hell I'd even say that when batista is champ his reigns are underrated. That's just my opinion of course.
But I do not think jericho's were underrated. He is the CURRENT champ, and he is doing just fine and we all know he"s there. He has been with almost every title reign he had. He was over with the fans and they loved him as Y2J, and now they hate him as the egomanichial tyrant he is. He is a world class athlete and and a great story teller in the ring. Deffinatley far from "underrated" in any sense of the word IMO

 

[classicviolence]

Without a doubt. No Question OP.

Look at when Jericho finally "won the big one" by defeating the Rock for the WCW title. He was built as the champion that got lucky over the Rock. Then onto Vengance 01, where he defeated Rock and Austin with out side help. Yes it solidified him as the Undisputed Champion (1st one in over 50 years at that time) but still made him look weak.

Then from there we go to Rumble 02. Jericho's biggest title match ever. That match was to prove to everyone that he could hang with guys like Rocky and have a solid championship match that a great heel act can perform.

Then from Rumble 02-WMX8 he looked very weak and ready to drop the belt to HHH. He won the WHC Championship Scramble at Unforgiven 08 outta no where. Title defenses against Punk and HBK worked miracles for his heel persona, only to job the belt to Batista via screwjob finish at the last Cyber Sunday.

He regained the belt during RAW's 800th special but by then we all knew Cena was on the verge of coming back and taking the strap. Now we have Jericho winning the SD! Chamber on Sunday only to be a placeholder champion for Edge.

I honestly think that Jericho needs to retain, for his future as a credible world champion. Yeah he has big title wins over guys like Austin, Rock, Taker and Batista but some solid big event wins would do wonders for him. More so than a WM26 Edge win would do.

 

[Ferbian]

TKO: First off I didn't say every title reign he ever had was underrated, considering I by far would not consider his tag team title reign as underrated because it actually had length and added credibility to Jericho and The Big Show as "the team" (if you ask me)

And Classic: True, they didn't build him as a very strong champion, or someone who could hang with the big guys, especially not against Triple H at Wrestlemania, but that is exactly why I think the reigns were underrated and not overrated.
And yes I do agree Jericho needs to win at Wrestlemania 26, and it's basicly also what I hope to happen, now I like Edge, I really do, but I don't feel like seeing Jericho, who I like better, to loose a title so shortly once more.

 

[ThePh3nomonal1]

Chris Jericho is a sure fire hall of famer, a multiple time World Heavyweight Champion and The First Ever Undisputed Champion, but he has never really had the look of a champion. I remember his whole rock star gimmick and i thought MIDCARDER then he had his whole goldy locks hair gimmick MIDCARDER the only time i D CHAMP was when he returned. He was the returning star. The former World Champion. More importantly he was over. But ever since he went to trunks I havent quite seen midcarder but i havent seen world champion either. But to answer your question I agree Y2Js title reigns have been quite underated especially since the brand split because there was always something more interesting going on with the other world champion or when he was undisputed champion if i remember correctly was the changing point when all the former ECW and WCW guys started showing up and Y2J was just holding the title until HH to the H returned. Also if anyone actually remembers the match booker t nailed Stone Cold with the belt and dragged Y2J over him so even when he won the Undisputed title he was putting over booker t big time setting up for a stone cold rivalry.
My opinion.

 

[enriquewarrior]

jericho was undisputed champ for 4 months. he is a main eventer he is just so great at being a main eventer, tag team and mid card intercontinental champ that he can do them all.
there are stars that stay in the main event too long, and those who are taken off for too long. i think they should move up the ranks. hbk, big show and rey need another world title reign.
i think jericho should have a lenghty title reign. the feud with edge should continue with edge and jericho exchanging the title atleast till summerslam, that way jericho will be more credible.
batista will be gone to raw, taker will be off for a while, punk and rey will be feuding. so this feud should continue. until the draft when who knows who will come to sd.

 

[mreastbay]

To me there is only one J2Y title run that mattered. That would be the undisputed title run he had after beating The ROck and Austin in one night. He held that belt for quite a few months, before (of course who didnt see THIS coming) sucombing to HHH at WM.

That was before his current one. Now i know, he didnt win the belt by himself, but it really doesnt matter how you win in the Elimination Chamber, just that you do. Plus with this title reign, it sets up one of the few "Dream Matches" the WWE hasnt tapped in to yet for a WM match, that being a match with Edge. And he brings that belt into Wrestlemania, which, by itself speaks volumes.
Other than that he just seems to come across as the guys they give it to before the next guy gets it (IE CmPunk, and Jeff Hardy), with one major exception. That exception keeps him from being over-rated with his title reigns....but Underrated? No F'n Way.

The 7 (ithink) Intercontinental Championships are more impressive to me....mostly cuz their is only one of them, and the level of competition that belt had, couldve been argued more fierce than the WWE World Championship at the time.

 

[akathelaw]

I col be wrong but I imagine Jericho likes the flexibility of being a part of the midcard and occasionally holding the top title. Jericho tends to work smarter feuds and smart feuds aren't always the best thing for the top card. HBK knows that the main event scene can often get overcrowded and Jericho probably sees this as well. A good rivalry and heated story is what the midcard needs and Jericho happens to be one of the best. The Intercontinental title is my personal favorite so I appreciate his many reigns. Glad to see Jericho back on top, and his match with Daniel Bryan was incredibly memorable.

 

[Torres_Liverpools_No.9]

People can bang on all they want about the length of Jericho's title reigns, the simple fact is as genuine wrestling fans we know how good he is and what his career actually deserves. His legacy will be 9 IC titles and 6 (so far) World titles. Now yes it is rather annoying that the likes of Cena and Batista have as many World titles as him and 1000 times less wrestling and entertainment ability but myself as a wrestling and HUGE Chris Jericho fan I don't lose sleep over the length of his title reigns and whether they are overrated or underrated, to me it is just good to see the belt on him and it proves that he can be used and trusted at any time to carry the show and hand it to the next big name or build up the next new name. I do like the subject of this thread but I think if HHH hadn't been banging Steph then it would be redundant as he wouldn't have been a short term, first undisputed champion, we would have been talking about his epic reign as the first undisputed champion amd subsequent reigns after.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

People can bang on all they want about the length of Jericho's title reigns, the simple fact is as genuine wrestling fans we know how good he is and what his career actually deserves. His legacy will be 9 IC titles and 6 (so far) World titles. Now yes it is rather annoying that the likes of Cena and Batista have as many World titles as him and 1000 times less wrestling and entertainment ability but myself as a wrestling and HUGE Chris Jericho fan I don't lose sleep over the length of his title reigns and whether they are overrated or underrated, to me it is just good to see the belt on him and it proves that he can be used and trusted at any time to carry the show and hand it to the next big name or build up the next new name. I do like the subject of this thread but I think if HHH hadn't been banging Steph then it would be redundant as he wouldn't have been a short term, first undisputed champion, we would have been talking about his epic reign as the first undisputed champion amd subsequent reigns after.

Don't bring up that shit about HHH banging Stephanie because it has no relevance to this discussion whatsoever. Matter of the fact is that Jericho has built up very few wrestlers when he lost titles. Benjamin was hot before Jericho and was hot after Jericho. HHH, Batista, and Cena were established when Jericho lost to them so that doesn't do him any favors. He hasn't carried RAW or Smackdown any. While Mysterio and Jericho were feuding over a midcard title, Punk and Hardy were having the feud of the year. So Jericho isn't a great champion as everybody thinks he is.

 

[sukhbirsl]

i think jericho is underrated................to an extent.
he is a 6 time world champion, and yes he doesnt usually hold titles for very long.
he also has held the intercontinental title a record nine times. Im saddened by this because jericho is such a great worker, and is given a midcard title. and also most wrestlers hold titles for around 100 days. jericho held the intercontinental title 9 times and has not even held in for a combined year.
So jericho has made history in the wwe by holding a midcard title 9 times, but should be holding more main titles for a longer time. So like I said he's overrated to an extent

 

[The_Killswitch]

Wow some people here have mixed reactions over Jericho and holding a title.
I personally think Jericho has had his best title reigns in the las two years. Yes Hes the first undisputed champion but he wasnt considered as a solid main event candidate then.

His last three reigns as world champion have been with Jericho in the best character of his career.
He has taken his character and overhauled it since the Post Flair send off.
I think his last reign was very underrated ,and to have Cena come back and win the strap off Jericho on his first match back was a big upset.

 

[sevastra82]

I always thought Jericho was a very unique performer when it came to his title reigns. He is one of the very few wrestlers (in recent memory) that can be given the belt, lose it, go back to midcard and then give it back again without losing ANY credibility as a performer. I find that fascinating that no matter what they do with him, his credibility remains intact.

Now, I do feel like Jericho should be granted a lengthy title run. Nobody (outside of HBK) is better in the WWE right now in terms of mic skills, performing, etc. And though Jericho doesnt need a lengthy run to "build his character", I do think he deserves it at least. I expect him to actually win at Wrestlemania.

 

[Spaceman Spif]

Jericho's title reigns are overrated, not underrated. He has been used as a transitional champion mainly. A man with whom to pass the title on to guys with more drawing power. Don't get me wrong, Jericho is a great athelete and has some drawing power, but his reigns is they had lasted longer would have been terrible. He's better suited for his role as gets the title, holds it for a little bit, then passes it on to a more proper champion. He'll always be the top of the mid-card or the bottom/middle of the main-event.

 

[Paragon of Virtue]

Like LJL said, he is seen as someone who can step up and compete for or even win the world title, but not as someone who can keep that title and run with it. I'm not sure whether this is because of his smaller frame compared to the wrestlers I previously mentioned or whether they just see him as Mr Reliable, as in someone who can bounce between mid card and main event and do a good job regardless. Another possibility is maybe they don't think Jericho can draw like Cena or HHH, and they'd probably be right.

It's not because Chris Jericho couldn't draw like Cena or HHH. Chris Jericho is a top wrestler star, and everyone gets into his character. I've always said the simple reason for Chris Jericho not staying in the World title picture is that he is WWE's cheap way of putting people over. Anytime Chris Jericho loses, it really doesn't even matter who it is, it doesn't effect Jericho's credibility. WWE likes Jericho at the position that he's surrounded by the tag, mid-card, and world title. Wherever they need him, he could help fill that position. Because of Jericho's high credibility always being intact, WWE likes to take advantage of that. Not too long ago, Jericho has gotten pinned by JTG and R-Truth, but it did absolutely NOTHING to drop his credibility in any way. I say that Jericho is WWE's cheap way of getting people over because he is like some kind of safety card, when they need a highly credible popular wrestler to put someone over, they can always count on Jericho because those losses do not effect him. He can lose to funaki one week and win the World title the next and still look pretty credible, and WWE abuses him for that.

Otherwise, if WWE really wanted him as a top star like HHH and Cena, they really could. How could one think that Jericho's high leveled charisma as Y2J wouldn't be highly over with the fans? Jericho is definately of the best(to me THE best) on the mic, so the crowd would easily love him as his once portrayed Y2J face character, being just as over as Cena and HHH. Around 2003 when he was face Y2J, he was already over a lot with the fans. I think he could definately have reached Cena level, but the problem was he wasn't booked as so. Jericho would win the World title, but drop it soon after. In the first few months of Cena's first WWE title reign, I would say he was about equally as over as Jericho. Because Cena was booked to retain his title for a long period of time, the casual fans loved that he was so good and was a fighting champion. Just think, if Jericho was his fun loving Y2J character as World champion, and was beating everyone to have a lengthy reign, he could EASILY been a huge fan favorite. But they didn't do that.

 

[Ferbian]

Having read through all the comments made over the past few days, I'd first of all like to thank everybody for their opinion.

I see many of you are talking about the world champion parts and him not being able to draw properly to stay in the main event picture as a lasting champion, but I'd also like to remind people that's not the main purpose of this thread, considering I also talked about the fact that he for example held the European title for only 1 day, which I personally think, it being a mid-card title and he held it around a time where he was incredibly over, atleast in his Y2J face periods, also considering that time he went as far as to "win" his first world championship, only to have Triple H force Earl Hebner to reverse the decision, and as far as I remember, the crowd went crazy over him winning it, so something leaves me thinking, wouldn't that mean he had drawing power? or had the popularity to atleast gain a proper push like the one Kofi Kingston got, with a nice long reign as United States champion, mainly because the crowd loved him.

Now I know Jericho has bounced alot back and forth as a heel and a face so ofcourse he wouldn't be incredibly over and loved by the whole WWE fanbase all the time, but we can't deny that he can draw heat, not like Vickie Guerrero, noone can draw heat like Vickie, but still.

And I believe someone commented about the fact that the crowd went absolutely wild and he had an actual main event feel to him when he made his return in 2007, that also leaves me asking, why didn't they retaliate on his success right there? I mean afterall the crowd loved him right there, and now I don't exactly have anything to base on the fact that Jericho's return ment that he could actually draw at that point, but I do believe that WWE has retaliated on people being over with the live crowd rather than the fact that people tuned in to watch him, as far as I heard people such as Shawn Michaels being champion there's some talks that he didn't draw very good, yet he held the title rather long didn't he?

Edit (to the last part): And yes I know Shawn probably draws very well now.

 

[DBSmith]

It seems like everyone is a 7-, 8-, or 9- time world champion these days but no one eys sees the bigger picture. Add up all of the days these guys have held the titles and they don't compare to the 5-time title reigns of Bret Hart or especially Hulk Hogan. That's why I feel that everyone's title reigns these days, including Chris Jericho's, are OVERrated.

 

[Rikkia]

It seems like everyone is a 7-, 8-, or 9- time world champion these days but no one eys sees the bigger picture. Add up all of the days these guys have held the titles and they don't compare to the 5-time title reigns of Bret Hart or especially Hulk Hogan. That's why I feel that everyone's title reigns these days, including Chris Jericho's, are OVERrated.

I agree with you on this point the wwe championship belts don't mean as much today as they did back then. The title reigns of champions like Cena or Batista will never compare
to those of Hitman,Savage,Hogan, Michaels and Perfect who might have only held the title 2-3 times in their entire careers, yet it meant more to us and thw wrestling business when they did it. The constant winners who hold it maybe 9 times or more sure they might have, but it's meant less and less every time. The top belts are passed between the same few wrestlers every time and change hands so often that by the time the pay-per-views come around you don't care whose champion anymore.

And thats the reason their title reigns seem so overrated. Where people actually deserving like Chris Jericho (though I am a huge fan) are transition champions filling a place until someone better comes along to replace them. Jericho wouldn't seem so overrated if it weren't for this but his title reigns have been small in measure of exposure afterwards and they have never really gained him a consistent top spot to be a lasting champion.

 

[Joehaha]

i dont think the original poster actualy means underated? i dont think hes trying to say jerichos title reigns were awesome and not appreciated...i think he means that jerichos reigns were too short and that jericho should have been giving more time with the title...sort of saying jerichos ability to run with the gold is underated maybe? i dunno. but its safe to say jerichos world title reigns havent been anything special...which is a shame.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I think it says more that Chris has not had 10 reigns yet, but the ones he had have always been the highest profile and the wins memorable... guys like Cena, Edge and Trips have had more reigns, but the moments winning were not always classic...

When Jericho has had the belt, he has been used as a heel champ should be... holding on to the belt or regaining it out of seemingly nowhere... making the chase all the more thrilling...

I think this year is Jericho's "mania moment", a reward for his hard work... of the heels he is most likely to walk out a champion... and I wouldn't be shocked if a face turn begins right away.