Airline ends prayer cards with meals

[LSN80]

This isn't a huge story, but it certainly is an interesting one.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/26/alaska-airlines-ends-prayer-cards-on-flights/?hpt=hp_c2

For the past 35 years, Alaska Airlines had been distributing prayer cards with meals. Specifically, the cards were Psalms, examples being " Give Thanks To The Lord, His love endureth Forever", and "I will be glad and rejoice in you, I will sing your praise to your name most high." Meals have only been served in First class since 2006, so only those passengers got cards with their meals. So it was with "careful deliberation" that this decision was made, according to Airlines Spokeswoman Bobbie Egan.

“This difficult decision was not made lightly. We believe it's the right thing to do in order to respect the diverse religious beliefs and cultural attitudes of all our customers and employees.We also know some of you consider the cards to be a tradition that reflects your own spiritual beliefs. At the same time, we've heard from many of you who believe religion is inappropriate on an airplane, and some are offended when we hand out the cards.”

The idea behind the distribution of the cards first came from a former Airlines executive, who felt that it was a way to differentiate themselves from other airlines, and to show the people who flew with them that they cared. It was noted that some people had begun voicing both private complaints and compliments alike regarding the cards, with the complaints outweighing the compliments two to one. Continued Egan on the matter:

“Religious attitudes do vary,and a large percent of residents in markets that we do serve on the West Coast say religion is not important to them.”

Fair enough, and I recognize and believe that the religions of others should be respected. But if the majority of their clientale say religion isn't important to them, then what's the big deal? Isn't this much ado about nothing? If people don't like or care about the card, they could simply throw it away. The cards for some could serve as a source of comfort, or even inspiration, but what is the real downside here in distributing them? Said frequent passenger Kathy Hosford:

““I take the time to read them. It really tells me the airline cares about the people sitting there.”

The decision to end the distribution of the cards was made last fall, and the end of distribution will end on February 1st. About this, Egan said:

“A business that aspires to be diverse and inclusive shouldn't have a religious agenda. Religious beliefs are deeply personal and vary greatly among our customers”

Again, without trampling on the beliefs of others, I feel people could be much more thick-skinned than this. I don't see how this really could trample on the beliefs of others, as the cards could simply be disposed of by those who don't wish to receive them. Most Psalms Ive read in my day have been simply things of inspiration, not preaching of heavy beliefs. So I have a hard time grasping as to why the Airline received 242 complaints, with 141 compliments. I respect the airlines decision, but I really don't see the big deal here. I know it's a relatively minor story, but it's one of those grey areas regarding religion at the same time.

Do you think the airline made the right decision here?

Would you be personally offended if you received such a card on an airline? Would you be glad to receive it? Or would you simply not care one way or another?

Any other thoughts?

 

[H33LTurn]

Since I'm Christian I wouldnt mind receiving one, it would come across as caring imo. But I do understand that others have a right to their religious beliefs and therefore the airline did the right decision although anyone who didnt like the card could've just thrown it out. I doubt it would ever cause a huge uproar but why waste money making the cards if they're going to be discarded of anyway?

 

[klunderbunker]

I'm with LSN: this is much ado about nothing. The cards were served with dinner and if you don't want them, put them under your plate and wait for it to be taken away. If a little card probably the size of a playing card with a few words written on it offends you, I'd probably suggest you're a very uptight person that takes things far too seriously.

Totally changing gears, Penn Jillette (of the comedy/magic team Penn and Teller) is a very publicly known atheist. He's made it very clear that he does not believe in the existence of God. His fans have given him Bibles over the years and he takes it as a nice gesture. They believe something that he doesn't and they care about him enough to try to do something that they feel is a nice gesture. The people aren't trying to be rude and shove their beliefs down his throats. They're trying to be nice to him. He accepts them and while he doesn't read them, he isn't rude about it.

That's the way this should be handled. Don't take it as an outrage. Take it as a nice gesture and if you disagree with it, don't make some big complaint about it. It's a card with about 15 words on it that took about 5 seconds for you to read. If your life is so high strung that something like that is offensive to you, I'd suggest a vacation and a change in lifestyle because that can't be good for your health. Sorry for offending you by offering a suggestion to keep you alive in case that's somehow offensive too.

 

[SavageTaker]

The bottom line here is that people are too sensitive and too worried about their little rights being violated because of something like this. Is receiving a "prayer card," during your flight really that big of a deal? Simply put, it's not. If you don't like it then have some manners and say either thanks and put it to the side or just say no thank you. But you don’t need to make a big deal about it. It seems like people want to make a fuss about anything nowadays and quite frankly, it’s getting to be extremely annoying. People are too sensitive about their rights being violated. Either they have nothing better to do with their lives or they are just too stupid to realize that no one really cares.

I’m not a religious person at all and this doesn’t bother me. They are a private business and they have the right to do whatever they want as long as it’s not breaking any laws. Was it the smartest decision they could make? Speaking from a business stand point, if it bothered the majority of their customers and most of them were willing to switch airlines, then yes it was the best decision. But like I mentioned, I’m not religious and if I was offered a “prayer card,” I would’ve followed exactly what I preached, just say no thanks or thanks but put it to the side and not let it bother me. It’s one thing if they’re just handing me a piece of paper and another if they’re trying to push their beliefs on me. If it was the latter then yes, it would be a problem but because that’s not the case it’s not a problem.

 

[SalvIsWin]

I voted opposed/offended. I think LSN, SavageTaker, & KB are missing the point why people would complain though. If I received a prayer card, I wouldn't be offended, I would probably just roll my eyes and put it away, but I am opposed to them being handed out. Receiving a prayer card if you're a Christian or a Jew is fine because it applies to you, if you're any other religion or not religious, then it doesn't. What would Christians say if an airline decided to hand out Atheist cards? Can you imagine the average American if they flew on an airplane and received a card that said, 'Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the World"? I don't want my airline choosing a religion, I'm comfortable with just the flight. I feel like they're showing favoritism by having a Christian & Hebrew card and not from any other religions or Atheism. To even further illustrate that's why I don't like it, if they wanted to hand out a card with a little phrase from all of the religions and Atheism, go for it - it's a waste IMO, but go ahead.

Now I'll reply a bit to what others have said.

Fair enough, and I recognize and believe that the religions of others should be respected. But if the majority of their clientale say religion isn't important to them, then what's the big deal? Isn't this much ado about nothing? If people don't like or care about the card, they could simply throw it away. The cards for some could serve as a source of comfort, or even inspiration, but what is the real downside here in distributing them?

Favoritism in my opinion. I'm not Christian or Jew, I don't want a Christian card just like I would assume a Christian doesn't want an Atheism card with their meal.

That's the way this should be handled. Don't take it as an outrage. Take it as a nice gesture and if you disagree with it, don't make some big complaint about it. It's a card with about 15 words on it that took about 5 seconds for you to read. If your life is so high strung that something like that is offensive to you, I'd suggest a vacation and a change in lifestyle because that can't be good for your health. Sorry for offending you by offering a suggestion to keep you alive in case that's somehow offensive too.

I don't see why there's an assumption that the people who complained must have been really hurt or damaged in some way by the experience. I'm opposed to it, and I'm not outraged, I just don't like it. If someone asked me (like this thread is doing) I would tell them the same thing, I don't like it because why have a Psalms quote and not a Atheism quote? Why choose one and not the other?

I’m not a religious person at all and this doesn’t bother me. They are a private business and they have the right to do whatever they want as long as it’s not breaking any laws. Was it the smartest decision they could make? Speaking from a business stand point, if it bothered the majority of their customers and most of them were willing to switch airlines, then yes it was the best decision. But like I mentioned, I’m not religious and if I was offered a “prayer card,” I would’ve followed exactly what I preached, just say no thanks or thanks but put it to the side and not let it bother me. It’s one thing if they’re just handing me a piece of paper and another if they’re trying to push their beliefs on me. If it was the latter then yes, it would be a problem but because that’s not the case it’s not a problem.

It's a private business and it's their right to hand out the card, it's also a persons right to have an opinion about it and want to complain if they want to. No one is suggesting new legislation to make sure this doesn't happen again, people are just saying they didn't like it - and I'm sure the airline is happy to receive those complaints because LSN said the complaints outnumbered the compliments 2:1.

 

[SavageTaker]

I voted opposed/offended. I think LSN, SavageTaker, & KB are missing the point why people would complain though.

Trust me; I don’t think I’m missing the point at all. There’s really not much to miss. An airline decided to hand out “prayer cards,” and people got upset so now they’re discontinuing them. I know exactly why people got upset and complained: because most people need something to whine about regardless of whether it’s that big of a deal or not. That’s just the way a ton of Americans tend to be.

It's a private business and it's their right to hand out the card, it's also a persons right to have an opinion about it and want to complain if they want to. No one is suggesting new legislation to make sure this doesn't happen again, people are just saying they didn't like it - and I'm sure the airline is happy to receive those complaints because LSN said the complaints outnumbered the compliments 2:1.

I never said it isn’t their right to have an opinion and complain. However, I can also express my thoughts and feelings and I think people are getting butthurt over nothing. If something like this really bothers you enough then I think there are deeper problems and you need to grow some thick skin. Is receiving one of these cards really going to affect you that much? Is it going to make your flight any less pleasant?

 

[SalvIsWin]

Trust me; I don’t think I’m missing the point at all. There’s really not much to miss. An airline decided to hand out “prayer cards,” and people got upset so now they’re discontinuing them. I know exactly why people got upset and complained: because most people need something to whine about regardless of whether it’s that big of a deal or not. That’s just the way a ton of Americans tend to be.

You said in your first post that it's just a prayer card, big deal, just put it away. I don't think anyone would argue that it's not easily ignored or that you can't just put it away, what I am saying is that it's besides the point. Ignoring for a moment that it's not a big deal, why have a Christian & Hebrew prose and not an Islamic one? Why not just have some general well wishes? The prayer cards being a big deal or not is another issue entirely.

I never said it isn’t their right to have an opinion and complain. However, I can also express my thoughts and feelings and I think people are getting butthurt over nothing. If something like this really bothers you enough then I think there are deeper problems and you need to grow some thick skin. Is receiving one of these cards really going to affect you that much? Is it going to make your flight any less pleasant?

Where do you get from my post that I'm really bothered, or that I'm really affected by this? Because I'm replying? I could ask you why it really bothers you that they discontinued the cards, does it really affect you that much that they discontinued the cards? Saying it's not a big deal so who cares is a stupid argument because I could say the same thing to you, why care if people complained and they're not handing them out anymore? It's a pointless discussion to have.

Is my overall flight going to be significantly less pleasant because of a prayer card? No. Is your day going to be significantly less pleasant because a prayer card was discontinued? See we can keep talking about something that's besides the point, or we can actually talk about the actual issue (small, medium, large - whatever) which is: If I'm not Christian, I think it's entirely logical to not want a Christian prayer card. Am I going to freak the fuck out if I get one? No. Do I really care that much that I got one? No. Regardless of how minuscule of an inconvenience or unwant the prayer card is, the point is that 66% of their passengers didn't want the card.

You three are saying that the prayer card is so insignificant that it shouldn't even be worth complaining about, and that's a valid point. What I am saying is that if you ignore the fact that it's really not a big deal so why even complain about it (which I don't agree with, but whatever) and just discuss the issue on its merits, than I can totally see why a non-Christian/non-Hebrew wouldn't want a Christian/Hebrew prayer card. I wouldn't expect a Christian to want an Atheism card either, they're not an Atheist, why do they want it? LSN asked, what's the downside to receiving it? The downside is that I don't want it. I don't want to read a prayer, if I did I would have a brought a bible.

All three of you have insinuated or said outright that the people who complain about this stuff must have been deeply offended, too worried about their rights, or thin-skinned. I don't think I am any of those, yet I don't want a prayer card. I'm handed a small prayer card that I don't want, I am lightly inconvenienced by it, I say I don't want to receive them on a plain - that seems like a perfectly logical set of events. I'm comfortable giving my opinion on something that is related to me in a small, medium, or large way - why is that so bad?

 

[SavageTaker]

You said in your first post that it's just a prayer card, big deal, just put it away. I don't think anyone would argue that it's not easily ignored or that you can't just put it away, what I am saying is that it's besides the point. Ignoring for a moment that it's not a big deal, why have a Christian & Hebrew prose and not an Islamic one? Why not just have some general well wishes? The prayer cards being a big deal or not is another issue entirely.

Just maybe, making an Islamic prose didn’t come to the mind of the people making the cards. Or maybe they’d hope people would realize that Allah = God so it’s not a problem what name they’re using when referring to a god. I don’t know quite honestly, but I don’t think these people had an agenda that set out to isolate certain religions for whatever reasons.

Where do you get from my post that I'm really bothered, or that I'm really affected by this? Because I'm replying?

I wasn’t really targeting that towards you. I was making the statement in a general sense, I guess I should probably have clarified that it wasn’t aimed at you specifically.

I could ask you why it really bothers you that they discontinued the cards, does it really affect you that much that they discontinued the cards? Saying it's not a big deal so who cares is a stupid argument because I could say the same thing to you, why care if people complained and they're not handing them out anymore? It's a pointless discussion to have.

You could ask that, but I wouldn’t respond to a statement that I never made. If you were to go back and read my post you’d actually realize that I supported the discontinuation of the cards if it was a good business move for the airline because people were flocking elsewhere or if they were meant to push certain beliefs on people which I don’t think either was the case here.

I really don’t think it’s a stupid argument because it really shouldn’t be a big deal but people are making it just that.

Is my overall flight going to be significantly less pleasant because of a prayer card? No. Is your day going to be significantly less pleasant because a prayer card was discontinued? See we can keep talking about something that's besides the point, or we can actually talk about the actual issue (small, medium, large - whatever) which is: If I'm not Christian, I think it's entirely logical to not want a Christian prayer card. Am I going to freak the fuck out if I get one? No. Do I really care that much that I got one? No. Regardless of how minuscule of an inconvenience or unwant the prayer card is, the point is that 66% of their passengers didn't want the card.

Okay, good for them. Can’t they just decline those cards and move on with their day? Really, its things like this that bothers me about people. They’ll take the smallest things and enlarge them and for what reason? Like I said earlier, I think people are being oversensitive and it really sucks that people have to change the way things are just to please others when it could all have been easily resolved in other ways.

 

[SalvIsWin]

Okay, good for them. Can’t they just decline those cards and move on with their day? Really, its things like this that bothers me about people. They’ll take the smallest things and enlarge them and for what reason? Like I said earlier, I think people are being oversensitive and it really sucks that people have to change the way things are just to please others when it could all have been easily resolved in other ways.

OK this is where we primarily disagree. I really don't think this has happened. We don't really know much about how this entire situation unfolded. It's entirely possible that people received a comment card at the end of their flight and they were asked about the prayer card: Did you enjoy it? Would you like to receive it in the future? Shit like that. Most people casually answered, no, I'd rather not receive it if given the option, and then the airline said, OK most people don't want it, let's get rid of them. Maybe that's how this entire situation went down, maybe not, but I really doubt there was a big campaign about how it's such an outrage and how peoples flights were ruined due to the prayer card. If that were the case, I'd be saying that I agree in principle that there shouldn't be a prayer card, but that the scope of the campaign was ridiculous in comparison to the size of the issue, but that's not what has happened.

 

[SavageTaker]

OK this is where we primarily disagree. I really don't think this has happened. We don't really know much about how this entire situation unfolded. It's entirely possible that people received a comment card at the end of their flight and they were asked about the prayer card: Did you enjoy it? Would you like to receive it in the future? Shit like that. Most people casually answered, no, I'd rather not receive it if given the option, and then the airline said, OK most people don't want it, let's get rid of them. Maybe that's how this entire situation went down, maybe not, but I really doubt there was a big campaign about how it's such an outrage and how peoples flights were ruined due to the prayer card. If that were the case, I'd be saying that I agree in principle that there shouldn't be a prayer card, but that the scope of the campaign was ridiculous in comparison to the size of the issue, but that's not what has happened.

Again, I was speaking in a general sense because that really is what bothers me in general when it comes to issues like this and many more. But you’re right, we don’t know exactly how it all went down but someone had to make enough of a fuss about it because it did end up on the news or at least CNN’s website. If no deal was made out of this then we wouldn’t be discussing this now and it would just be an afterthought to many people which isn’t the case here.

 

[Davi323]

Do you think the airline made the right decision here?

As a Christian, I appreciate any time someone attempts to spread the gospel, especially in such a non-confrontational, passive way. Even I don't particularly care for the in-your-face style of evangelism. Yet, I find myself torn here. If the messages were overtly Christian, with specific references to Jesus Christ, I think it probably was the right decision to make, at least for the sake of their business. If they were getting complaints at a 2:1 ratio, that could significantly alter their business.

However, if they are more of the generic Old Testament stuff, more along the lines of the specific examples LSN used, where it says God but not Christ, I don't think the prayer cards are nearly as big a deal. Both the Jews and Christians alike use the Old Testament, and Muslims accept the Old Testament as the Word of Allah, even though they claim it has been slowly corrupted over time. The Old Testament is going to be less controversial for most people than using verses from the New Testament.

Would you be personally offended if you received such a card on an airline? Would you be glad to receive it? Or would you simply not care one way or another?

I would not be offended in the slightest, I would actually be one of the ones complimenting the airline for it. Even if it wasn't Judeo-Christian based, how hard is it to simply ignore it? You only need to be offended when you CHOOSE to be offended.

 

[Harthan]

As a hard atheist, I'd be a little annoyed by receiving a prayer card, but I probably wouldn't make a huge deal out of it. I'd be dissatisfied and if someone asked me to review my flight and describe what was good, what was bad, etc., etc., I would probably note this as something I wasn't happy about. It's about the expectation of my ability to go into a public place and not have religion thrown at me. I can understand and appreciate the sentiment behind it - they're trying to be nice - but it would still be mildly offensive nonetheless. It comes down to a disrespect of others belief systems - well intentioned or not, the disrespect is there.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Meals have only been served in First class since 2006, so only those passengers got cards with their meals

Well, sure. I think it's well understood that people who fly coach are too cheap to merit eternal salvation, anyway.

Personally, I wouldn't care one way or the other, and I voted that way. Let 'em hand me the card, I can disregard it, read it, or throw it away.....my choice...... and I don't feel compelled to justify what I do to the passenger next to me if he/she wants an explanation.

What would Christians say if an airline decided to hand out Atheist cards? Can you imagine the average American if they flew on an airplane and received a card that said, 'Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the World"?

Good point, no? I would imagine there would be plenty of complaints if cards like that were put in the hands of non-Atheists or members of the Christian/Judeo faction. But why? If those folks get their innings, aren't the non-believers and practitioners of other faiths entitled to theirs, too?

Maybe Tim Tebow can tell us.

 

[SD619]

I wouldn't be offended by it. I would probably just read it and leave it at that. There is not much reason for people to cause much uproar about it as they are just giving the passengers a piece of text to read, not forcing them to adapt Christianity.

I am neither a Christian nor Jewish, but reading such a prayer card would not bother me. Ultimately, all religions do have the same basic morals and values.

 

[Loveless]

Would you be personally offended if you received such a card on an airline? Would you be glad to receive it? Or would you simply not care one way or another?

I'd be offended but before I get onto that, switch it around for a moment and imagine an airline was handing out atheist cards.

My stance religion has always been the same. Keep it to yourself.
The moment you try to bring it into my life it's an attempt to challenge or invalidate my agnostic/atheist philosophy. Religion is an insult to the non-religious, an assumed moral superiority based on not a damn thing and I just won't accept that kind of judgment from anyone. Keep it to yourself or be prepared for me to rip it to shreds.
After years of being tolerant of people trying to challenge me on this, I've now run out of patience and will treat this challenge in much the same way I deal with door to door salesman trying to sell me shit I didn't ask for.