A Lost Art Form

[klunderbunker]

In the world of wrestling, something has been lost to history that in my eyes is a shame. The thing that has been lost is the manager. Anymore, you so rarely see a manager that actually does anything. Typically, it's some pointless diva that will move on in a short amount of time and then fade away into nothing at all.

Managers are a different sort entirely. Men like Slick, Mr. Fuji, Freddie Blassie, and the two greatest of all, Bobby Heenan and Jimmy Hart were such huge parts to their wrestlers' matches that it's a shame that such characters are no longer portrayed.

In this decade, I can recall one true manager stepping up and filling in this mold that has been forgotten, and that man was just released: Armando Estrada. This man was the epitome of what a manager is supposed to be. He was the voice of a dominant wrestler and looked pretty bad other than that. The segment was led in by him, but he stepped aside to let the real talent come in.

Now what I'm wondering is why have these great characters all but disappeared from the wrestling landscape? To me, it is because of the idea that everyone has to be a "real" person when they wrestle. Characters are dying out rapidly and these athletes are becoming nothing more than people in tights wrestling. We've all made the joke about heels should have a mouthpiece manager in jest, but honestly why not? It can work, especially with a dominant wrestler.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Good points made here.There used to be some true maniacs running around ringside as the match was going on. In addition to the men you named, I add Captain Lou Albano and The Grand Wizard. You never knew what they were going to pull while their wrestler was taking care of business inside the ring.

I thought that Ric Flair might become a manager after his retirement. Can you imagine the trouble he could have stirred up? It's a shame that he's (allegedly) in bad shape financially and has to spend his time making personal appearances to pay his debts. I'll bet he would rather be at ringside, managing
wrestlers and occasionally getting physically involved. Hopefully, it will happen someday.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Sometimes, that veteran wrestler with the right look and feel can make a fantastic manager. Look at how much more real and fearsome Harley Race made Big Van Vader look. Race's experience made Vader truly legit. What a scary team.

I've always said that I'd like to see Tully Blanchard come back and manager somobody young and able. Tully was a mic wizard, and he learned the art from JJ Dillon, who was a phemoninal manager. Tully could take someone younger and not too big, and teach him to be a heel superstar.

 

[Father:_Polley]

I think the lack of managers in wrestling today is underpinned by this one fact. We don't want a middle aged man at ringside when we can have a slim, busty blonde bent over the side of the ring, barely in her top.

Note, this is not my view, this is the apparent view of anyone in booking. Charlie Haas is bland, give him Jackie Gayda as a valet. Test and Albert can't get over... Trish, put on a push up bra and get out there.

There's no skill behind that style of 'management'. It's cheap, sexual marketing - 'Cheer for me, you get to see boobies'. Ok, sure it works to a point, but there's no skill behind it. The likes of Heenan and Hart, they were able to mould themselves to the guy they were managing and know exactly how to push him towards the crowd to get the desired response.

With the loss of the only two real managers in wrestling today in James Mitchell and Armando Estrada, you lost the additional players in a feud. The men who could motivate their charges and propel them towards greatness.

To me, it says a lot when with Estrada and Mitchell, Umaga and Abyss respectively were main event players. Without them, they lacked a dimension to their character that the 'evil genius' character of the manager brought to the game.

To me, I think the gift of the manager was that they actually drew the heat, and the wrestler fed of it by association, and it was that made the successful pairing.

 

[8thwotwATG]

Kudos to Mustang Sally for bringing up the names of The late great Grand Wizard and, of course, the greatest heel manager of all time, Capt. Lou Albano. Just imagine how much less effective a team like the Moondogs would have been without the presence of the manic, rambling, totally insane persona of Capt. Lou at ringside. The Moondogs wouldn't have been over to nearly the degree that they were without Albano.

 

[Slyfox696]

One of the biggest death blows to the manager has been the evolution of the General Manager. Before, the "manager" was responsible for getting his clients matches, title shots, money for matches, favorable treatment etc., at least in storyline purposes. But, if matches are made by a GM, title shots are made by a GM, what's the point of having and paying a manager? A manager was simply a sports agent in wrestling, and since that aspect of wrestling has disappeared, the need for a manager has dwindled.

In the current booking scheme, almost everything is done by live interview. Back when managers were prevalent many scenes were pre-recorded, and in interview rooms, so a manager could play a bigger part. But now, where so much of the story takes place inside the ring in front of a live audience, it's a little silly for a 5'10" 180 pound man do all the boasting for a 6'4" 250 pound man. It kills the "larger than life" illusion, when done in front of a live audience.

When you combine those factors with the fact that wrestling is on EVERY week now, and every wrestler is on camera ever week, it just makes sense that the manager would fade, as there really is no reason (storyline or otherwise) reason to have him anymore.

 

[Gutter Phenomenon]

I do miss them as well. I always loved when I was a kid seeing Paul Bearer lead The UnderTaker to the ring. Although, there are still two manages in WWE, that I know of:

Ranjin Signh:
I think now that Khali is turning face, Singh has been doing quite a good job as his wing man. Albeit, it's pretty much all kiss cam crap, which I'm all set with.

Tony Atlas:
If he and Mark Henry were on either Raw or SD! I think Atlas would be much more appreciated. He has the good heel manager tactics; of encouraging Henry to keep laying it on his opponents.

I also just wanted to list some of the wrestlers I think could really benefit from a manager:

JBL:
Could have a some business exec with him that would get involved in his matches.

MVP:
With his losing streak still going, a motivational type guy would be good for him. Could help him get off the streak, and then get things going towards a title shot.

Maryse:
I know it seems crazy, but hear it out. Give her a boy toy type figure. Someone that she can just boss around, but he doesn't care. It would help accentuate her "Sexiest of the sexy" motif. I also think it would give her more face time, which wouldn't hurt the diva division.

 

[NSL]

In the world of wrestling, something has been lost to history that in my eyes is a shame. The thing that has been lost is the manager.

Damn you, KB...After our conversation in the OCW thread the other night, I was planning on startig this thread tonight...

I agree that the manager is a lost art form in today's wrestling, and it's not just the WWE. TNA is lacking as well...

Some managers that I haven't already seen discussed are Paul Bearer, Bill Alfonso, and Jim Cornette. Valets are also a lost art form. There's Lita, Cherry, Miss Elizbaeth, Francine, Dawn Marie, Beulah, Jillian (with JBL), Sherri Martel, Sable, Sunny, and Luna Vachon.

Managers and valets add an extra level of depth to a feud, by shooting exciting promos, interfereing in matches, or helping to sell the match, by slamming on the ring, and screaming "Get up!", and keeping the crowd in the match. The closest things we have now are Tony Atlas, Sharmell, Hornswoggle, Glamarella, and Kip James. Definitelty a far cry from what we've seen in the past.

There a lot of "good" wrestlers, that could be "great", and main eventing, if only they had the right manager to go with them. The Undertaker was helped by the presence of Paul Bearer, and Jimmy Hart could sell any wrestler he managed.

I've said in other threads, that Umaga is the perfect candidate for a manager, and could have a string of great feuds if they gave him someone like Armando again. Abyss would also be best served with having a manager again. If WWE keeps Miz and Morrison together for a while longer, they would be great having a valet with them...Someone like Maryse, possibly.

I also think that if either company is going to bring back the valets or managers, they need to start with the mid-cards, and work with the people that will be managing, just like they would with the wrestlers themselves. It's not supposed to be an easy job, and they need to make sure the job "works" again, before they introduce it into the main event...

 

[Gutter Phenomenon]

Umaga definitely needs a manager again (I mentioned that in the Umaga thread).

And I also like the idea of Maryse joing Miz & Morrison. She would be the perfect fit for a valet. If she gained some mic skills, that team would definitely have the potential to cut some of the best promos. And it would also make for some great Dirt Sheet moments IMO.

But as I said in my previous post on this, Maryse having a "manager" herself would be quite intriguing. I think Jamie Noble would be a good fit. He portrays that mentality of being whipped, and Maryse could keep him around and he would occasionally interfere in her matches, and help her get a higher status among the divas.

 

[The Big Gunnzbowski]

The sad thing is, the necessity for a manager has dwindled if not almost entirely disappeared. If you look back at the last 10 years, managers have just really become too predictable. They come to the ring, they interfere, they become singles competitors. The need for a manager has evolved with the fans. We don't give a shit anymore! We know if someone is coming to the ring with a wrestler, they're going to distract, interfere, or ruin some other aspect of the match. A manager really just take away from the match, which in this day and age, is NOT good for anybody involved. It's hard enough anymore to put on an "original" show... Managers/Valets ALWAYS end up becoming active wrestlers... why bother anymore? They're obsolete!

 

[Gutter Phenomenon]

I disagree with managers taking away from a match. If a heel has a manager that you know will try to interfere, you then want to see if the face can win against even more odds.

And like I've said, some wrestlers are really aided by managers. Albeit, they usually are used more as translators, but, you have Ranjin Singh for Khali, and Estrada when he was with Umaga. If those wrestlers didn't have them in the corner, they would just be another non talking monster heel.

 

[The Big Gunnzbowski]

I disagree with managers taking away from a match. If a heel has a manager that you know will try to interfere, you then want to see if the face can win against even more odds.

And like I've said, some wrestlers are really aided by managers. Albeit, they usually are used more as translators, but, you have Ranjin Singh for Khali, and Estrada when he was with Umaga. If those wrestlers didn't have them in the corner, they would just be another non talking monster heel.

I will agree with you on that front... sometimes though, it just gets to the point where you see a manager/valet walking to the ring and just *Sigh* because you KNOW what's going to happen... It gets lame and stale really fast...

 

[2012isbs]

I think the manager was ditched mainly because they were veiwed as unnecesarry, I can only think of a couple current managers/valets in TNA/WWE: Cute Kip with the Beautiful People, Alcia Fox with DJ Gabriel, Jacqueline with Beer Money Inc., Tony Atlas with Mark Henry, Ranjin Singh with Khali, Ezeikel with TBK and Hornswoggle with Finlay.But let's face it only 3 of those managers are actually serioius I find Ironic though that 2 are on the suposed ground breaking show TNA those two being of any use areCute Kip for actually doing things to help his clients and not being eye candy and the second Jacqueline for being a some what important to Beer Money Inc. feuds. Big Zeke gets it because he is helping TBK win by doing what managers do.
The others are eye candy (Alicia Fox), just for comedy (Hornswoggle) or on the wrong brand (Tony Atlas), Singh's not on here becuase recently all he's done is make me throw up by having Khali kiss 1's and 2's on the scale of hotness.
Managers one and only true purpose is to get the "entertainer" they're managing get over especially if their client is a heel. All the managers of old Bobby Heenan, Jim Cornette, Jimmy Hart, etc. were good at they're job and it showed. WWE and TNA bring back the managers now.

 

[Gutter Phenomenon]

I think WWE is actually trying to bring back the managers. Starting with MNM(Melina). They do a good job of giving monster heels managers that work(Khali/Singh, Henry/Atlas). I would agree that Henry/Atlas are on the wrong brand. I think they would be better fitted on RAW. Aside from Kane, there's not too much potential for monster heels. Another person I could see possibly benefiting from the manager translator would be Kozlov. Give him some stern looking, suit wearing, Russian guy that carries the Russian flag. It would give Kozlov more heat, which is never a bad thing for a heel. And with Khali turning face, it would give a good feud between two monsters with managers. And in the old days, I remember managers having good moments on the outside during matches.

And this just came to mind as a feasible option. If Morrison ever goes back to singles, pair him with Maryse. They could have a lot of similarities of HBK/Sherri, which led to good feuds with Savage.

 

[NSL]

And this just came to mind as a feasible option. If Morrison ever goes back to singles, pair him with Maryse. They could have a lot of similarities of HBK/Sherri, which led to good feuds with Savage.

I've already mentioned that Maryse should be the valet for Miz/Morrison. I like Morrison as a singles wrestler, but I'm still hoping against hope that they try to revive the tag division, and if they're going to do it, they need Miz and Morrison together.

They'd be a powerful group, always in contention for their respective titles, and they'd have the "it" factor. They ooze charisma, they have the look, and they can all put on one hell of a match. I don't see any other tag team that can pull off having a manager right now.

If they are going to use another tag team to have a manager, they'd be best served to make Umaga and Manu the new Headhsrinkers, and make Sim Snuka act as a manager...

 

[Gutter Phenomenon]

I'm aware that you mention Miz and Morrison, and I agreed with you. I said that it would make for some good Dirt Sheet material and such. I was just talking about how it could work with just Morrison/Maryse as well.

However, the Headshrinkers idea is pretty good too. I don't think Sim would be too good of a manager though. I think he's too much of a wrestler and not a good enough promoter. But, if you have a stable of Umaga/Manu/Sim, I think Estrada would make a great manager for those three, and they could definitely be powerful in the tag division. And it would give Raw a good feud opp between Headshrinkers and Miz/Morrison. Although Miz/Morrison would have to go either Tweener or face for the feud to be effective.

 

[NSL]

If they re-form the Headshrinkers, I would mark out at a possible match between Umaga/Manu and Rhodes/DiBiase. I love old school wrestling, and hopefully the match would live up to what their relatives could have done in a match like that.

I don't think Sim would be a great manager, but at least we could believe him doing most of the talking for a team like that, and he has the odd-one-out build of the three. If they put him in FCW, and let him work on his mic skills, and develop a comfort zone as a manager, it would work rather well to see him as a manager in WWE. It's not like he'd be managing a singles wrestler, or anyone at HHH's or HBK's level.

 

[Milkyway!]

The need for a manager isnt a need nor a want by any means. Managers are too predictable these days. Come out, say something (That the superstar should be saying himself) interfer, the interferance costing the oposing opponet the match, or the contriversal way of costing his own "employee" the match. Jimmy Hart was a good manager, in a time at which managers were needed, because everyone else had one, without one you were a sitting duck, it was a way to "even the odds." WWE allready needs to cut down on a talent, a manager would just be another person to pay in a time, at which managers arnt needed.

 

[pyrusane]

We saw a true manager return a few years ago when Paul E. introduced Brock Lesnar to the world, and it worked wonderfully. Paul E. was always one of my favorite managers (meaning I hated everything about him, so he did his job well). He served his purpose, he was an excellent mouthpiece for Brock in the beginning, because lets face it, Lesnar wasn't exactly a genius on the stick. And when it finally came time for the two to go their separate ways, who didn't enjoy watching Brock tell Heyman to "Shut up!!!" in the middle of a sentence?

One guy that I think could be an excellent manager today is none other than JBL. The man is pure gold on the mic, he can get physical if he needs to, and it would make good storyline sense as well. He likes to make investments, why not invest in the career of a young up and comer? I think he would be perfect in the corner of a guy like MVP; not only is he managing his career, he is also helping him manage all of that "money" in his contract. And best of all...we don't have to see his man-boobs anymore.

This also leads to a storyline opportunity that hasn't really been used much in years...I remember when Bam Bam Bigelow was set to debut in the WWF, they aired vignettes for weeks with all of the managers vying for his services. The only storyline like that I remember seeing in recent history was when Robert Roode was interviewing candidates to be his new manager. But if done properly, it can give a huge push to a new talent before they ever even make their first appearance. If all of these managers are falling over each other to sign this guy, then he must be the "next big thing", right?

 

[The Big Gunnzbowski]

If they re-form the Headshrinkers, I would mark out at a possible match between Umaga/Manu and Rhodes/DiBiase. I love old school wrestling, and hopefully the match would live up to what their relatives could have done in a match like that.

I don't think Sim would be a great manager, but at least we could believe him doing most of the talking for a team like that, and he has the odd-one-out build of the three. If they put him in FCW, and let him work on his mic skills, and develop a comfort zone as a manager, it would work rather well to see him as a manager in WWE. It's not like he'd be managing a singles wrestler, or anyone at HHH's or HBK's level.

You mean to tell me that you'd mark out for a team consisting of a very educated, wild haired Samoan who speaks eloquently and a gibberish screaming Samoan? It'd be like pinky and the brain...with LOTS of hair...

Ok, I definitely see the appeal now... BRING IT ON!! But Sim isn't Samoan, he's Indonesian...isn't he?