6 Final Fantasy VII -v - Super Smash Bros Brawl 123
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Wow, really? This is a final round caliber match, NOT a first round match. Oh well. I'll fully support FF7 here because it's one of my favorite games. As much as I love Brawl, it's not anywhere near as good as the RPG juggernaut of Final Fantasy 7. FF7 has better characters (the FF7 cast could defeat the Brawl cast anyday), better music (not a single bad track in FF7), cutscenes that were unfathomable for its time, and the innovative materia system. Brawl is loads of fun but it didn't have the gargantuan impact in the gaming world that Final Fantasy 7 had.
Go on, prove me wrong. I dare you. Or do the right thing and vote for Final Fantasy 7.
Go on, prove me wrong. I dare you. Or do the right thing and vote for Final Fantasy 7.
Wade's Public Transit Bomb
Championship Contender
I've played through FF7 a handful of times. So, I don't hate the game. I just think people over fucking blow how good the game actually is. Most of the party members are worthless and two are even optional. The story just has a bunch of twists and turns filled with crude humor and forced dramaz. They spent all that time teasing something between the pink chick and Cloud only for her to die?
The materia system just seems like a waste because you either can't afford it or tough luck if you didn't find it. That and it takes a really large number of battles before any of them have some redeemable use.
Not gonna get on the graphics because that wouldn't be fair.. But they could've done more to the characters than being what the Miis would look like in Wii Sports: Colorful tater tots.
Now Super Smash Brothers Brawl is a game for everyone, not just Nintendo fan boys. It is relatively (loose term) to play. There is enough options when it comes to game play that you won't easily get bored if you don't have anyone to play with. This includes different game modes and seemingly a million trophies and other achievements to get. The character selection is immense and, for the most part, doesn't feel like they just cloned one model 10 or 15 times. Same with the fighting areas.
The materia system just seems like a waste because you either can't afford it or tough luck if you didn't find it. That and it takes a really large number of battles before any of them have some redeemable use.
Not gonna get on the graphics because that wouldn't be fair.. But they could've done more to the characters than being what the Miis would look like in Wii Sports: Colorful tater tots.
Now Super Smash Brothers Brawl is a game for everyone, not just Nintendo fan boys. It is relatively (loose term) to play. There is enough options when it comes to game play that you won't easily get bored if you don't have anyone to play with. This includes different game modes and seemingly a million trophies and other achievements to get. The character selection is immense and, for the most part, doesn't feel like they just cloned one model 10 or 15 times. Same with the fighting areas.
You've played through it a few times despite it taking around 60 hours to finish and you can still only remember her as the "Pink chick"? I'm calling bullshit on this.
I'm keeping my essay length post for later but this is the easiest choice. In one corner you've got a game that takes at least 2 months to finish, an epic story that broke the mould in terms of fleshing out characters, various mini-games, an entire world to travel across and the coolest, most iconic villain in gaming history. Final Fantasy VII goes beyond defining what an RPG can be into changing the very landscape of what games themselves can be.
Or you could just vote for fucking Smash Brothers which had none of that stuff. You sicken me
I'm keeping my essay length post for later but this is the easiest choice. In one corner you've got a game that takes at least 2 months to finish, an epic story that broke the mould in terms of fleshing out characters, various mini-games, an entire world to travel across and the coolest, most iconic villain in gaming history. Final Fantasy VII goes beyond defining what an RPG can be into changing the very landscape of what games themselves can be.
Or you could just vote for fucking Smash Brothers which had none of that stuff. You sicken me
Brawl wasn't the best of three games in my opinion. Melee blew it out of the water at least for me. FF7 is arguably the best of the Final Fantasy series which consists of 20+games. That's saying something. Brawl has one thing over FF7 which is multiplayer and that's to be expected. It was made to be played with others. FF7 has everything you can want in a game and more. Add the best villain in video game history and it blows Brawl away.
Oh my god how is this tied at 6-6. Final Fantasy VII is the greatest game ever and nothing from the Wii shouldn't be even compared in the same sentence to it. Final Fantasy VII had amazing characters, amazing character development, great story, it looked stunning which in 1997 was not the norm. Smash Bros has the same fighting style we've seen time and time before from far better games.
TheKingHustla
The Man Who Saw R-Truth Beat Cena!
Well, thinking back to when I first got my hands on a playstation controller, the first game I ever touched was a demo. That demo, was a game by a company I never heard of, and a series that i never knew existed. It was number 7, and I thought to myself, numbers 6 thru 1 must have sucked if I never heard of them. My older brother said he couldn't stand the demo, so I gave it a try. I enjoyed it from day 1. The next week, I ran out and bought every final fantasy game that I could possibly afford with my saved up funds, and with a little help from my big bro. Ever since then, I've been hooked. Many people criticise the game now, but most of those people never experienced the game when it actually came out. There was nothing anything remotely like this on the game market. And sure, it has lost some of its appeal now if people are experiencing it for the first time, but it's still a great game.
SSBB was good, but it wasn't mind blowingly good. It wouldn't win a tournament of games featuring Luigi, so I don't see how it could win here. I enjoyed it, and Snake and Sonic and the likes were great additions, but FF7, while not the best FF, is one of my tops.
SSBB was good, but it wasn't mind blowingly good. It wouldn't win a tournament of games featuring Luigi, so I don't see how it could win here. I enjoyed it, and Snake and Sonic and the likes were great additions, but FF7, while not the best FF, is one of my tops.
This is very tough for me. I've played SSBB alot in my day, and I've had a ton of fun doing so. Both online and with friends. FF7, I've played a few times, but I can't seem to get through it. Maybe my attention span just isn't wwhat it used to be, but if I had to pick a game to play tonight, it'd be Brawl.
HOWEVER, even I can't deny that FF7 is one of the best games of all time, and it would be an insult for it to leave the tourny this early. So I vote FF7.
HOWEVER, even I can't deny that FF7 is one of the best games of all time, and it would be an insult for it to leave the tourny this early. So I vote FF7.
Lee
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No it's Supermod!
This is why I'm voting Brawl.
How fucking narrow minded are you? Seriously. The fighting style of said game we'd seen in two games before hand. It's a unique way of winning as opposed to the usual get rid of health bar.
Then to say no game on the wii deserves to be in the same sentance is just blind fanboyism. Seriously grow the fuck up.
EDIT: Just to add onto something Dagger said:
Better cast of characters? Take the Nintend allstars + Snake + Sonic plus a few others in cameo roles. They're not better characters.
Better Music? Nobuo Uematsu wishes he could get anywhere near Konji Kondo. Brawl has most of Nintendos massive array of great music, in orchestral form. That's a better sound track.
And what's with the better bad guy? Name the best three Video game baddies of all time and Bowser and Ganondorf will come into it. Which game are they in? That's riiiiiiiiight!
FFVII is a great game but the blind hate spewing from the camp was annoying last time, please don't let it manifest this time.
No. Every character had their use, even Cait Sith. Every single playable character has a large fan following. The optional two Yuffie and Vincent not only became popular but also went on to become the standard every other optional character were measured against.
The story made sense. Go back and replay it, you'll see just how much better it is than Brawl. Also, do some research. Aeris has a name, and deserves better than you mentioning her as "the pink chick". Her death was THE iconic spoiler of all spoilers. It helped make Sephiroth one of if not THE best villain ever.
No it wasn't. It made nearly anything possible. 4xCut + Slash All, for example. Mime, all of the summons, master magic.... endless possibilities. Also the "large number of battles for them to be of any use" is called levelling up. Every RPG has it.
Really? Not this again. If NES games can make it through this tournament without people whining about the graphics, then so can FF7. Do NOT base Brawl being better upon graphics. That's the worst argument I've ever heard.
So Brawl is better due to the trophies and multiplayer possibilities? Hardly. FF7 had such a gargantuan impact on gaming, it made RPG's mainstream and provided a fantastic game in the process. It was said to be quite possibly the greatest game ever made and it deserves the win here because it's better than Brawl in every possible way except for multiplayer gameplay.
Characters are just a means to a story. FF VII has a story, SSBB doesn't and wastes the characters.
Do people buy the SSBB soundtrack? Do they attend orchestral concerts for it's music? Because they do with FF VII.
ROFL don't be comparing those 1 dimensional villains to the icon. Sephiroth is the bar by which all other villains are measured against when it comes to character development, design and difficulty.
It's a necessary counterpoint to the bitterness it's subjected to. For example I question whether Eboney has even played the game judging by her comments.
Two words: Subspace Emissary. Subspace Emissary was the cooperative story mode that was first introduced in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. It's full of as many twists and turns as any other story-driven video game, and features some quite funny and entertaining bits as well, along with some great action. You are completely incorrect in saying that SSBB has no story.
Yes. I went to PLAY! A Video Game Symphony Orchestra Live just a few weeks ago. They played ONE song from Final Fantasy VII (One Winged Angel). They played multiple by Koji Kondo (Mario, Zelda) as well as songs from Metal Gear Solid and Sonic The Hedgehog. You're wrong again.
Nah he's just the guy with the long hair. Come on, have you ever played a Zelda game? Ganondorf is hardly two-dimensional. Give Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time a playthrough, why don't you?
The villains in SSBB are interesting as well. The Ancient Minister in particular undergoes a LOT of character development and has very good motives for why he does what he does.
Wrong. Again.
Look. I love Final Fantasy VII as much as the next guy, but don't come in here spouting falsehoods like a douchebag. You want to talk up a game, talk up a game, but don't outright lie about the other.
Lee
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No it's Supermod!
I think Doc said everything I needed to there. The music is performed at video game Live! and other such VG orchestra's, the sountrack sells well, the characters are quite in depth but of course you don't even realise there's a full blown 1 player platformer mode let alone have played it.
The Ancient Minister is something else and the subspace is a great level.
Plus the Brawl main theme was composed buy Uematsu. Kondo did the rest (with the Nintendo team).
The Ancient Minister is something else and the subspace is a great level.
Plus the Brawl main theme was composed buy Uematsu. Kondo did the rest (with the Nintendo team).
Wade's Public Transit Bomb
Championship Contender
I don't know the if EVERY character has a "large fan following," but I do know you aren't making sense when you say Vincent and Yuffie became a standard or something.
So.. Whiny butt hurt guy leads a group of people to stop another whiny butt hurt guy. Sounds like a lot of Final Fantasy games tbh.
Shouldn't me calling her a pink tater tot be indicative to how little I thought she matter in the long run? She dies fairly early in the game and the only one that seemed to care afterwards was.. You guessed it, whiny and butt hurt.
Long hair and a long sword makes you cool I guess. And there's the long black trench coat; Nothing says "bad ass" like a long black trench coat. Sephiroth was just another FF character that would model other FF characters in future (much like a lot of the other FF7 characters.)
Having a limit number of times you could use the abilities is endless possibilities?
Hey, there are some NES games with some fine graphics.
I just think the game didn't make good use out of the platform at the time. Sorry, but the characters did look like colorful tater tots on a flat, 2D world.
Having an impact =/= the greatest thing since direct deposit.
FF7 is a classic, but let's not kid ourselves. FF10 is better and the best game in the series.
What other RPG's are out there where EVERY single playable character is widely remembered years after its release, each with their own set of fanboys? Even Cait Sith has a following. Yuffie and Vincent did become a standard for something, they are the standard that secret characters are to live up to and have been ever since FF7 came out.
Sounds more like the RPG stereotype, as made famous by none other than Final Fantasy 7.
She didn't matter? Clearly further proof you needed to do more research. Aeris (or the pink tater tot that dies, as you called her) is CRUCIAL to the plot. Spoiler tag below. Also.... they were all saddened by her death. Avenging Aeris became the second half of why they were out to kill Sephiroth.
She summons Holy. In the ending Holy comes to stop Sephiroth's Meteor from destroying the world. Had she not summoned it before she died, the heroes victory would have meant nothing.
Exactly. These characters became standards by which others would be measured, and will be for years to come. This game was a once in a lifetime event that might never be replicated. The cast and villain were developed perfectly like no other gane before or after (except perhaps Tales of Symphonia).
The game made fine use of the platform, adding the "need" for cinema cut-scenes in RPG's from that moment onward. They were nice extras before FF7, now games are looked down upon for NOT including them. Add that to FF7's resume in terms of impact.
FFX is good but by no means better than FF7. Had this been FFX up against Brawl then I would be supporting Brawl, but it isn't and therefore I'm not. Final Fantasy 7 deserves to go on here and you have yet to prove me wrong because all you did was complain about the story and cited the standards it set as reasons you don't like it. Sorry bro but FF7's the better game here.
The Holy One
What's really good?
This was a tough decision for me as I've played and loved both games, but in the end I had to go with Brawl. Brawl to me was the best in the Smash Bros. series. It took the gameplay and made it even better with the additions of Final Smashes, Assist Trophies, and other items. The stages and characters were greatly improved upon as it doesn't get much better than fighting in the Mushroom Kingdom as it sides scroll like in Super Mario Bros. Final Fantasy VII is a great game but I preferred X and XII over it just like I prefer Brawl over it now.
Wade's Public Transit Bomb
Championship Contender
I think all you have talked about has been the 'impact' of 7. I get it. Okay. But is that really the reason it should be considered "the greatest of all time"? There are games in the franchise with better battle systems, a more extensive story, and flat out better character dynamics.
Nostalgia; I get because I am a wrestling fan. However, it doesn't change the fact that not everything stands the test of time. I don't think FF7 is one of those games that can say it does stand the test of time.
It's unfair to compare characters in the way I think you're implying. Super Smash Bros. Brawl for example has something like 35 characters, and they all come their own franchises. There's been a lot of Mario, Samus, Metal Gear etc games. If we were to compare FF to Metal Gear alone that would be an interesting debate. The game however is Brawl vs FF 7 - not every game the characters have been in. Brawl's story was thin, it wasn't thought provoking, complex, or have any of the virtues I would require a great story to have.
If you compare the villains based on the game we are talking about and exclude their franchise, this isn't even close.
It's paper thin though Doc.
But we're not debating Wind Waker and Ocarina. If you can just include every game that a character has even been in, then you would just need this game to account for ~35 franchises.
There is a story, it's a lie to say their isn't, but can you really compare if you exclude the franchises that the characters come from?
TheKingHustla
The Man Who Saw R-Truth Beat Cena!
A great debate on both sides supporting two great games.
When 7 was made, the length, the engaging and complex story, and the overall quality of the game was revolutionary. The day I bought it and noticed that it was multiple disc, I thought the other discs were music or something else gimmicky, but it was actually the game. The story kept me involved and wanting to kill people that stood in my way of finding out if Cloud was real or not! Some of the characters were outright annoying, if not pointless, but all in all, they still were memorable, even if for the wrong reasons (I'm talking about you stupid as thief chick! I hate you!)
Brawl on the other hand, was huge in cast number and when thought of in star power, it is unmatched by any game out, ever. The characters in this game, although, like Salv stated they come from their own franchise, where some of the biggest names in gaming history. Period. The story was a nice way to see those characters blend together and give it some sort of reason, although rather thin by todays standards. The multiplayer ability of this game (although wii online sucks) made it super valuable in replayability and made up for the thin story.
The biggest thing that swayed my vote for 7, is that, atleast in my eyes, 7 stood on it's own, and slingshotted the franchise into the stratusphere, bringing the games before it, and after it along for the ride. Many of us, especially me, never heard of 1 thru 6 until 7. Brawl, on the flip side, I feel stands on the shoulders of it's predecessors and the franchises that they come from and just had to hold up it's hands to reach the stratusphere. They are both great and wonderful games, with great and wonderful characters, music, and gameplay. One can even argue that ff7 shaped the RPG landscape that we see today and in the future, while Brawl didn't really change Fighting games.
When 7 was made, the length, the engaging and complex story, and the overall quality of the game was revolutionary. The day I bought it and noticed that it was multiple disc, I thought the other discs were music or something else gimmicky, but it was actually the game. The story kept me involved and wanting to kill people that stood in my way of finding out if Cloud was real or not! Some of the characters were outright annoying, if not pointless, but all in all, they still were memorable, even if for the wrong reasons (I'm talking about you stupid as thief chick! I hate you!)
Brawl on the other hand, was huge in cast number and when thought of in star power, it is unmatched by any game out, ever. The characters in this game, although, like Salv stated they come from their own franchise, where some of the biggest names in gaming history. Period. The story was a nice way to see those characters blend together and give it some sort of reason, although rather thin by todays standards. The multiplayer ability of this game (although wii online sucks) made it super valuable in replayability and made up for the thin story.
The biggest thing that swayed my vote for 7, is that, atleast in my eyes, 7 stood on it's own, and slingshotted the franchise into the stratusphere, bringing the games before it, and after it along for the ride. Many of us, especially me, never heard of 1 thru 6 until 7. Brawl, on the flip side, I feel stands on the shoulders of it's predecessors and the franchises that they come from and just had to hold up it's hands to reach the stratusphere. They are both great and wonderful games, with great and wonderful characters, music, and gameplay. One can even argue that ff7 shaped the RPG landscape that we see today and in the future, while Brawl didn't really change Fighting games.
FF7 is in my opinion the greatest game ever. I'm well within my right to say that NO Wii game should be compared to it. In fact there's very few games on other consoles that should be compared to it. It is that good. Is it fanboyism to vote for a game you think is the best ever? not at all and I'm sure when Ocarina Of Time comes you'll go out of your way to push that.
My point is that in my opinion the Wii has done absolutely nothing to produce a game anywhere near as good as Final Fantasy VII. That's my opinion and if that's fanboyism then so be it.
But at the end of the day it's still a fighting game, like we've seen before from Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat etc. It follows the same premise as those games and a different way of finishing a fight doesn't change that. Final Fantasy VII was unique as not many people had played a game like this before, it was something that people had never seen before. If you've played any beat em up then you've played Brawl.
Again what a load of crap. You're voting Brawl against the far superior game because people love Final Fantasy VII and think it's a great game?
Bollocks you're voting Brawl because it's Nintendo.
I'll grow up when you take your cock out of Nintendos arse.
Fuck's sake.
You're making me regret voting for Final Fantasy VII. How in the hell can you say that we've seen SSBB's fighting system a million times, and then claim that Final Fantasy VII was unique? Final Fantasy VII followed the usual Final Fantasy formula of getting into random battles and walking around a world map. I'm not knocking it - It's a tried-and-true system and it worked in VII's case, but you can't seriously claim it was unique when every fucking RPG had that sort of gameplay.
Praise its story. Praise its impact and popularity. But don't try to sit here and claim that its gameplay was something people had never seen before.
Because to me Final Fantasy VII was unique. In my school nobody had seen anything like this before, we'd never played 1-6 before and didn't even know what other RPG's were around that time. When I say unique I mean when it was released on the PS everybody was talking about it. People had never seen a game do a story like VII did, or develop characters like VII did. People had never seen a game look as beautiful as VII did. That's what made it unique. Yes it followed a general formula as you say but it was other things about the game that made it unique.
Smooth Sexual Chocolate
Grapefruits of Wrath
So much bullshit being spewed from Final Fantasy fan boys. Melee is where it's at with SSB' but like Lee, I voted for Brawl based on the sheer blindness coming from the other side of this debate.
FF isn't the end all be all in the world of RPG's, sure it may have an extremely loyal fanbase, a fanbase that's border line stalker status imo. You shit still smells while playing FF, just like any other game.
Personally I'm not a fan of either game here, I feel Brawl dumbed down the SSB series, and I've never been a fan of FF, so even though I feel SSBB ruined an amazing franchise I'll still be voting for it based on the extreme blinded douchery coming from the FF camp.
FF isn't the end all be all in the world of RPG's, sure it may have an extremely loyal fanbase, a fanbase that's border line stalker status imo. You shit still smells while playing FF, just like any other game.
Personally I'm not a fan of either game here, I feel Brawl dumbed down the SSB series, and I've never been a fan of FF, so even though I feel SSBB ruined an amazing franchise I'll still be voting for it based on the extreme blinded douchery coming from the FF camp.
I think we're going to have to give eachother lee-way on our answers because we're all biased in some way, and we can't all be video-game historians. For example, Leed's Guy said he never played FF 1 - 6, so if FF 7 was your first RPG experience (which it was for a lot of people), then you likely view it in much higher regard than someone who had played previous games in the franchise. So should Leed's Guy opinion not count for anything because of that? Where do you draw the line? It's difficult to say.
Look if you bring the hate you're going to get it back. It's disgusting that people are voting against FF VII because of the love it's getting, I mean how fucking childish is that. You can be damn sure that if people started voting against Ocarina of Time for the same reason it'd cause no end of trouble either. Drop the bullshit "anti-voting" before it spreads to other votes.
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