Ziggler vs Kingston 2/3 falls

[yeerandee]

after watching the ziggler vs kingston 2 out of 3 falls match on raw, dont you think that kingston won 2 of the 3 falls and should be the us champion again?

i am no fan of kingston and really like ziggler a lot, but the sitpulations for the match are the winner of 2 falls wins. kingston won 2 of the 3 falls. 1 by pin and 1 by dq. they technically had 3 separate matches in 1. if they go by the logic they used on raw then if a person has a disqualification fall in an iron man match then it would be over? or if ziggler got disqualified during the first or second fall would the match be over?

so do you think it made sense that ziggler got disqualified for the whole match or do you think that kingston should be the champ now after winning 2 of the 3 falls?

 

[Cena's #1 In My Heart]

You make a good point... (can't add much more than that lol)

But umm.. the match was really good and I like what I'm seeing out of Kofi Kingston and Dolph Ziggler.. that match is getting them a bit of a push I'd say... they are where R-Truth and John Morrison were last year I'd say. Which is good for them, because R-Truth and Morrison are nearing the top.

 

[RkoMachine]

totally agree! i was actually expecting the GM to ring in and award the title to Kingston (which woulda totally pissed me off cuz i love Ziggler) But i guess WWE thinks we're all stupid. I mean come on what was tonight even about? our votes didnt matter! it shoulda just been a normal 3 hour RAW instead of them throwing on some fake gimmic that only an idiot would believe is actually real

 

[Johnny Scumm]

Technically, no.
Kingston may have gotten a clean pinfall over Dolph Ziggler in the match, however, the deciding moment in the match was when Ziggler was disqualified and the match thrown out in Kingston's name. If Ziggler was disqualified in the 2nd Fall, which decided the match, he would retain the Title nonetheless.

 

[FanSince99]

I just think the WWE just tripped over its own feet with that ending tonight. Kingston should have one the title because Ziggler got DQ'd thus giving Kofi the last "decision".

For example remember when the Undertaker returned at Judgement Day 2000 in the middle of the Iron Man match between HHH and The Rock. Undertaker chockslamed HHH thus giving HHH a "decision" and making the final score 3-2.

But aside from that it was a great match just mistake on booking I think. I even think King was confused by the ending at least he sounded like he was.

 

[dxparza]

Funny thing is, I just finished watching the match and was about to start a thread when it hit me, "I have no idea how to create a thread, maybe someone has already started on about the topic."

I totally agree, Kofi should technically be the US champ right now. He did win two out of the 3 falls and should be crowned the champ. I was expecting the GM to chime in and say something but nope. All this means is Kofi gets another shot next week or at the next PPV..

 

[Jeffnumber1fan09]

Thats a very very good point but Michael Cole did state that the title can only change hands on pinfall or submission so techniqually Ziggler is still the rightful US champion but i am sure we will see these 2 face off again

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Not really. I've heard some people talking today saying that a no DQ rule is automatically in place in these sorts of matches. I don't recall that at all. I think a no DQ is in effect for triple threat matches but not all 2 out of 3 falls matches have such a stipulation.

Since Kofi did win the 3rd fall by DQ, he didn't win the title. It can be somewhat confusing when you take into effect that commentators seem to indicate that the winner of 2 falls wins a title, no matter how exactly they might win a fall. Off the top of my head, I can't remember a time when I saw someone win the final fall via DQ.

At any rate, I enjoyed the match and it probably means we'll see them in at least one more match.

 

[TheChampionOfTheWorld]

I was just watching Raw on my DVR and saw this match. I really think that Kofi should be the United States Champion. I put it like this, what if Kofi would have got the DQ as his first fall and then pinned Ziggler for #2, he would have been US Champion. I do understand why they did the finish the way they did. It lets Ziggler keep the title and continue the fued. I just didn't like the finish of the match.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

If it was one a piece, the last match is similar to a normal singles match, and as we know a Championship can't change hands on disqualification, therefore the United States Champion is indeed Dolph Ziggler and not Kofi Kingston.

Although I imagine Kingston will get another chance.

 

[@smarkmouth]

Interesting. I think the announcers should clarify the rules. I've seen the third fall go to a DQ (Corre vs Show/Kane/Santino/Kingston on Smackdown after WM) but not when a title was on the line.

I think it would have been an interesting debate had Kofi won the first fall by DQ, then cleanly wins the second fall. Would Kofi be the champion? Or would the first fall render the win null and void?

This was a situation where the announcers needed to clarify the rules, and they didn't have to go into much detail either. Simply calling the last fall something like 'Sudden Death' would have sufficed.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

No.

This is a similar misconception to the theory that there are No DQ's or Countouts in multi-man matches. (3-ways, 4-ways, etc) I seem to recall a Triple Threat between Raven, Saturn & Kanyon in which Saturn and Kanyon were both counted out and Raven won; even though it was a Triple Threat.

The reason why this is hard for some people to understand is because most of the time you don't get a screwjob type of finish in a 2 outta 3 falls match. Typically it goes straight through with pins or submissions. The reason this one ended the way it did, was likely to continue a storyline/program between the two.

Kingston won 2 out of the 3 falls, but they each tied for pinfalls - with Kingston getting the upper hand in victory via a DQ. And as every rule has ever stated in the history of Pro Wrestling; "A Championship can not change hands on a countout or disqualification". (unless otherwise previously indicated) So, what does this do? It allows Kingston to remain one of, if not the #1 contender for the Championship - but keeps the belt on Dolph Ziggler beyond that of a single day. (He's had enough short reigns this year, hasn't he?)

The real question I think a lot of people would have brain aneurysms over would be if Kingston would've won the 1st of his 2 falls, via a DQ. If Ziggler would've just taken the Championship and clocked Kingston in the head the moment the bell rang, would the match become irrelevant and stopped immediately, or would Kingston go up by 1 and they'd proceed into match #2 with Ziggler in a sudden death setting? Obviously if the same rules apply, you'd be lead to believe any DQ at any point of the match would've lead to it stopping.. so why'd Ziggler wait as long as he did before ending it the way he did? EH, eh?

 

[mancpenguin]

I think it would have made a great finish had Ziggler walked down the ramp holding the belt only to be told that due to the DQ his has not only lost the match but also the title. Either way I'm sure there's a few more matches before this feud is done.

 

[NWannabe]

It should, but it won't because of loopholes that are subjectively activated. No big loss, and since this was on SD last year, maybe Kofi can move up near the ME?