Your Choice

[Minor League Brian]

Knowing full well this probably won’t get any sort of response; I’m in a writing mood.

I figure anyone who visits this form is at least a lurker in the bar room, so I’m sure you’ve seen the topic Sam made earlier concerning “love” and the such. The topics been brought up quite a deal lately, with CCS posting constant updates about his “GF” doing…whatever it is its doing, and Will making a topic over break ups in this very forum, and its got me thinking, so I now have 2 questions that I’d like to see your responses too.

First and foremost, which your answer to this can completely kill or over-rule the second question, is do you believe in love, or like Sam and others do you just believe its extreme infatuation?

Second; do you believe love is voluntary? Can you –really- choose who you fall in love with? Or can you just pick and choose, and turn it off on will?

I’ll answer both questions at once, simply because it’s much easier for me to do so.

Personally, I do believe in love. I don’t see how anyone cannot believe in love, I really can’t even fathom it, but as HBK-Aholic (I cannot call you Becca, it feels weird since I don’t know you…) pointed out, that must be how religious people feel talking to Atheists like myself, but I also cannot even begin to understand how someone can sit there and tell me that you can “control” who you love. Doesn’t that just defeat the purpose of what “love” is supposed to be?

The only way I can think to explain it is like…color, or the sun. Its something you never truly notice, but it’s there and in the back of your mind you know it’s their but you’ll never realize how much it meant to you till it’s gone. I think the best analogy I’ve heard for it is that its like glass, unless you look at it from an angle you’ll see right through it every time.

Maybe people, who’re married, like Will, can attest to this, or maybe it’s just me, but I don’t believe you can go everyday of your life, wanting to be with the same person and being with the same person and have it be infatuation. Sure, there are plenty of times where you wish you could hate them, or they’d be gone, but you can’t control it. If it was just that, you’d get tired and bored after a short amount of time, and you’d turn it off and move on to the next one.

It’s been over 2 years, and I’m still not bored. I learn something new everyday, I can (don’t make this dirty, you bastards) look at her every day and still not get tired of her. She’s not the prettiest girl in the world, but the only one I think is truly beautiful. And I say, if my or your own experiences don’t shine through, why would their be so many monuments, so many allusions, and just so many references to simple “infatuation”?

The words been dragged through the mud, it’s been tarnished and used selfishly for personal gain. It’s lost its meaning, and now a day is thrown around like theirs no tomorrow; but I believe the word still holds power. It still has that meaning, that inexplicable meaning that makes it unique to all, but at the same time…we all know what it is. But who knows, maybe I’m wrong; it’s why I’m asking you, what do you think?

(I feel like I butchered this, my bad. lol. I guess I wasn't in a writing mood like I thought.)

 

[HBK-aholic]

Good thread. It's better because you mentioned me in it.

Anyway, I believe in love, and I can't actually think of not believing in it. There's that dream, you fall in love and get married. Right from meeting them, everything should be special, you should want to spend all your time with them, you should want to never want to leave them. You'd do anything for them. That's not attachment, it's love.

I also think you can't help who you fall in love with - it isn't a choice. If it were, so many people would have easier lifes. People don't choose to fall in love with their sisters husband, or someone they can't be with, maybe someone they can't even see. If you chose who you loved, it'd be easy. But it's uncontrollable, something brings the 2 of you together. I believe in soul mates, and I believe everything happens for a reason, love is a big part in that.

 

[Azrael Cain]

I believe in love. I cannot, for the life of me, tell you what it is.

When it comes to it being a choice or something greater, I believe that love is somewhere in-between. If I feel something for someone, like attraction, be it physical or intellectual or spiritual, and do not choose to act upon that feeling, love has no chance to possibly flourish. But if I choose to act, and love flourishes, then it was by choice. That is to say, love itself is not a choice but to love is.

I spent a good half hour trying to come up with a decent answer to this post, an answer that would be "worthy" of supposed reputation thus far, but could not articulate my thoughts enough. All I know is that through the power of love, no matter what kind, anything is possible and I believe in it... and am very much afraid of it and what it can do.

 

[Iscariot]

Ah love, the eternal question.

Now, I'm going to ramble here and possibly lose people, and I might not even answer the question, but I will give my opinion on this as it is a very good subject.

I believe in love, but I don't believe that love in and of itself is mutually exclusive to one person. What I mean by this is that you only really 'love' one person, and the rest is infatuation. There's a thread right below/above this about young love, and I'll be honest, I loved my partner Laura when I was 14. I mean really, my heart still flutters now when I think of her. She was beautiful and her smile really made me melt and all the crap you expect to hear a lovedog puppy say when he has his one and only love.

I loved Sarah when I was 18. Was with her 9 months, was the first person I slept with and we were going to last forever. I obviously couldn't of loved Laura because this, THIS is what love is. Me and Sarah = forever man. She touches me in ways no-one else can and all the crap you expect to hear a lovedog puppy say when he has his one and only love.

I loved Kerry when I was 20. She was 18, she was younger and more outgoing and she made me wanna go out and meet people. She broke me out of my shell and made me so much more exciting. And dear god what she could do in the bedroom made your eyes water. For 2 years she showed me real love, not that thing I had with Sarah. She is the one man, and all the crap you expect to hear a lovedog puppy say when he has his one and only love.

Of course, that's all wrong because I got with Laura #2 at 23 and realised what love REALLY is. She was my best friend through 6yrs previous, and KNEW me. Really knew me, in everyway, and been there before everyone else and after everyone else. Only a best friend like that can POSSIBLY be real love, because you have no hidden history or things she doesn't know about that can ruin it. She is what love is, not that relationship based on sex I had with Kerry. Laura #2 is the real deal, and all the crap you expect to hear a lovedog puppy say when he has his one and only love.

...Irrelevent of course, because I'm currently dating/not dating Tallulah. Who I love, obviously. She is the one I actually want to propose to and marry, that's how much I love this woman. The fear of losing her is more than anything I've ever felt (Hell, it's even affecting my efedding, which I'm sure is annoying Will and Lee more than they care about the relationship lol). So this is real. The other's weren't love.


... Of course they were love. They all were. People keep trying to say there is only one love, and there isn't there really isn't. The fact is, people in general who where their heart on their sleeve find it very easy to fall in and out of love. It isn't always infatuation, although sometimes of course it is. Sometimes people make you feel really special in a way you can't explain. They don't placate your ego, or make you realise you like who you are just because you're with them (although I know alot of people in love will describe that as love). They simply make you enjoy life more, and sometimes you don't know why you can't bear to lose them, you just can't. Maybe love exists because of predetermined nature of mankind, or maybe it exists because we're told about it when we're young constantly and it becomes and indoctrinated behaviour in most of us. But the fact remains it still exists, even at a chemical level, to the point you can't just say it's infactuation. It is something else, it's as much as an addiction as anything. I can honestly see how people can end up on Jerry Springer saying "I love them both" and getting boo'd off the stage. He's a bastard for cheating on them both for sure, but not for loving them both, of course that's possible. People who don't understand that don't understand the nature of love yet.

You don't get to choose who you love, although sometimes you unintentionally help it along. Spending alot of time with a close friend will usually result in a feeling of closeness that you may not get with anyone else, and can easily be a form of love. Whether it advances into more than that is something else, but usually the fact that you're in their company constantly does mean that you will associate them with the times you are happy, and remember them being there for you the times you were down. Is it real love? Probably. I love my best friend Howie because he's there when I need him, and we have some of the best conversations of my life. I really do love the bastard and would cry like a girl if he died or he moved away and never contacted me again. God you can't lie without people like him in your life. But I didn't love him when I met him. I met him at a gaming tournament and the bastard beat me - I wanted to smash his face in the ********ing ****e. But the fact remains things change. Feelings change. If he died I'd have to make a new best friend, and I have no doubt there's probably someone out there who'd make me smile just as much as Howie, but would it be in the exact same way? Who knows.

So, in answer I think yes, love exists and yes, in essence you can inadvertently choose who you love, but I don't think you can love someone simply by viture of being near them 24/7. You need a common spark to flame first.

=I=

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Great thread. Deserves way more credit than what it's gotten.

1. Do I Believe In Love? Simply put, Yes. Love is real, love exists. Its a series of emotions you feel inside, including; warmth, 'butterflies', and general happy feelings toward specific individuals. And its also so much more than those things.

To me, love is something that can drive you crazy just as much as it can make you happy. An old saying "Love is a curse", is never more true than to realize just how powerful the simplicity of the word can be.

To say it's nothing but an over-powerful infatuation is to basically not understand or know that it's actually real and true love. Which then would also spawn the Question; "What is real, true love?" Which there is no definite answer, as everyone feels differently toward different things.

In my opinion, if you believe what you're feeling is nothing more than a more powerful version of infatuation then it's highly likely you haven't felt true love before, or maybe you have and you've lost it. Thus, the new feelings for someone different haven't given you the same full emotions the previous "love" did. And you can't connect on whether or not it could be the start of love, all over again.

From personal experience, I've had 3 definite, passionate, true and real loves. And I've had a couple off-shoots in which I've considered could be love. The difference is in what I felt. I say I've had only 3 definite true loves, because only 3 females from my life have ever affected me by way of literally being everything to me. Making my heart ache, making my emotions go everywhere. And most importantly, making me unable to merely 'move on and getting over it', like I've been able to do with every other "considerable" infatuation/likable love.

Now of course from my first true love, to my most recent, I've been capable of moving on, in some fashion, otherwise I would've never felt I could find another "love". But the part I'm referring to, is I have memories and emotions, what I consider to be pieces of my heart that I won't be able to have back. Those belong to Desiree', Danielle & Erin.

Whereas with infatuation.. it clouds your judgment, your mind and your thoughts. It makes you believe it could be love, when in fact it's just giving you a brief moment of what you want at that time. Two very separate things, indeed.

2. Is Love Voluntary? Honestly, I'd say No. You can't force yourself to love anyone. If its not there, it's not there. To use the term "voluntary" in connection with love, you're basically asking.. can you make yourself love someone. No, you can not. Not to my knowledge, anyways.

Love is a series of emotions, to me, in which it just clicks. You don't force people to be what you want. You don't force specific traits and characteristics into someone else, which helps trigger something inside of you, that in-turn makes you fall in love with them. I know that much, as I've tried to "voluntarily" fall in love with someone.. basically because I merely didn't wish to hurt them otherwise. When in the end, trying to love someone when you really don't.. hurts them worse.

In my opinion, love isn't something that you can make happen. It just does. Unexpectedly most times.

Jumping back to something Brian said about Myself and being married. No, I do not believe I could be here if this was pure infatuation. There are plenty of times Erin & I upset and piss the other off. It happens in all relationships. But the love aspect of that, comes into play and makes you upset in general that it's happened. You come to your senses and realize that life isn't worth fighting over small things, or even most large things. And you find a common ground, because the alternative of fighting to a possible break-up is too much to bare in losing the other person.

Whereas if it were infatuation, a fight of any kind would've ended the happiness you see in the other, and you'd come to realize it isn't worth the good.. to go through all the bad, unless you truly, absolutely love that person.

I know on first-hand basis that it has been incredibly hard for me to see my life without Erin. Despite having moments where its almost happened, and could've literally happened. Yet it never has, never did.. and hopefully never will.

Can you survive without anyone? Yes. Does it still hurt enough to make you wish you were dead? Unfortunately.