WWE Veterans NOT LOSING?

[Saiquan]

I've been listening to people talk about how Triple H never likes to job are put people over. I for one think that if you Say "Hunter your putting Jeff over" he will do it. But it also got me to thinking:"Is Hunter the only person who won't put someone over." Then i began looking and here are a few names:

John Cena: He isn't a veteran but he falls in this category. I heard that Cena is Vinces golden boy and is constantly in Vince's office. He held the WWE title for over a year and was shoved down our throats. So maybe he didn't want to put certain people over?

Shawn Michaels: My favorite wrestler but he stills falls over this category. He has a backsatge reputaion of not putting people over.

The Undertaker: Yea! I said the The Undertaker. he is 16-0 at wrestlemania and is "One of The Boys" Therfore he has alot of backstage power which has been confirmed by Wrestlezone.com

Basically what im saying is should we start cutting Hunter a little slack? Do you think he is the only one who doesn't want to win?

 

[Shawns#1 Fan]

I would somewhat have to agree with you. Those veterans you mentioned hold alot of backstage power. Altohugh i still don't like Triple H it is the fact that He married Vince's daughter that has me skeptical of him. As far as Taker goes i really can't say. Mark does hold alot of backstage power but i think that the whole 16-0 at Mania was Vince and it fits his character.

 

[Bentallica]

...Are you kidding me? Cena, Michaels, and Taker all put over, and they all have recently. Cena's been putting over the likes of Orton, JBL, HHH, Rhodes, and Dibiase since his return at the Rumble. In fact, he's only won twice on PPV this year, so far.

Michaels has been putting over Jericho a lot in recent months. I'm sure he'll win at the end of the angle, but still.

Taker put Edge over a lot this year. He let Edge be the won to take him out at ONS, he sacrificed the title because Vince thought Edge was a better champion than contender.

Sure, these three put over. When they win, it's because that's the spot of their careers they're at. But this year, they've all been putting over.

 

[FromTheSouth]

John Cena: He isn't a veteran but he falls in this category. I heard that Cena is Vinces golden boy and is constantly in Vince's office. He held the WWE title for over a year and was shoved down our throats. So maybe he didn't want to put certain people over?

He put Orton over at Wrestlemania. He put JBL over at the Bash. He is out of the title picture for a moment. I think that his time away from the top is doing him well. His pop on Raw tonight was huge. He was even well received in Batista's hometown last week.

Shawn Michaels: My favorite wrestler but he stills falls over this category. He has a backsatge reputaion of not putting people over.

He put Jeff Hardy over clean earlier this year. He is making Jericho look like a badass, and has been for months now. He is at home selling an injury. He allowed himself to have the match stopped on account of bloodloss. When Stone Cold did this for Bret Hart, it helped them both tremendously.

The Undertaker: Yea! I said the The Undertaker. he is 16-0 at wrestlemania and is "One of The Boys" Therfore he has alot of backstage power which has been confirmed by Wrestlezone.com

Besides Wrestlemania, Taker consistently puts people over, and has for his whole career. For being at the top for 17 years, like he has, he has held the belt for a relatively short period of time. Whenever he wins, he loses it back within a couple of months. He is the rare wrestler who doesn't need the belt to be over. He has made Edge more credible over the past year. He made Batista. He made Mankind. He made Kane. Even if Taker wins, he is always willing to make the other guy look great.

Basically what im saying is should we start cutting Hunter a little slack? Do you think he is the only one who doesn't want to win?

I would say no. HHH put Jeff Hardy over, and then took that win back in the Elimination Chamber. He has gone over, seemingly, in every feud he has ever been in. Even when he loses the title, he gets a retribution win soon later whether or not the title is on the line.

Don't get me wrong, I like HHH. But I do see where people are coming from when they say he holds people down.


It's just more apparent now than ever before. When Rock and Stone Cold where around, there was no chance HHH was going to tell Vince that he was going to be champ. Nowadays, there is really no one with that kind of power. Cena is a huge draw, but the idea of Cena being champ again has got to be off the table due to his long reign and mixed reactions. There is no way Khali is going to win, and short of a major heel turn (by HHH), he will have that belt forever because HHH will never, lose the belt to a face with no credible heel around to use to get him the belt back quickly.

The only reasons you will HHH lose the belt in the next few years is to get him closer to Flair's 16 championships by winning it back within two months.

 

[DeadmanInc.]

John Cena: He isn't a veteran but he falls in this category. I heard that Cena is Vinces golden boy and is constantly in Vince's office. He held the WWE title for over a year and was shoved down our throats. So maybe he didn't want to put certain people over?

He hasn't a lot in the past but I think that's because WWE was trying to recreate Hulk Hogan in Cena. But ever since returning from his injury he has been on quite a losing streak. He put over Orton, Triple H, and JBL and all of them were clean and decisive wins.

Shawn Michaels: My favorite wrestler but he stills falls over this category. He has a backsatge reputaion of not putting people over.

He may have been an ass back in the day, but Shawn Michaels has put over so many people since returning from his back injury. Whenever he was in a title match he always puts over the champion since he no longer wants a title reign. He put over Hardy, Kennedy, Orton, Cena, and he made Jericho look absolutely badass at the Great American Bash.

The Undertaker: Yea! I said the The Undertaker. he is 16-0 at wrestlemania and is "One of The Boys" Therfore he has alot of backstage power which has been confirmed by Wrestlezone.com

Just because he has backstage power doesn't mean he uses it selfishly for himself (unlike Triple H). He has put over so many people in his entire career it's impossible to list them all. For example, since returning as the Deadman, he has put over JBL at three consecutive PPVs, he was pinned cleanly by Batista, and he put over Edge a few times this year. Even at Wrestlemania where he is guaranteed to win he always makes his opponents look good. Randy Orton, Batista, and Edge were all dominant in their WM matches with Taker thus it made them look like a credible threat. On top of it all, he let Khali pin him cleanly after A CHOP just to make Khali a legit monster.

The only problem with Undertaker is his gimmick. It doesn't really allow for clean, decisive losses without making him look weak. However, he did put quite a few people over cleanly in his Badass days. He MADE Brock Lesnar after that brutal beating in their Hell in a Cell.

Basically what im saying is should we start cutting Hunter a little slack? Do you think he is the only one who doesn't want to win?

No, I don't. Triple H may put people over occasionally, but most of the time he comes out looking like the better man. Triple H put over Jeff Hardy but it was by a fluke roll-up. Triple H put over Orton at WM but he wasn't the one pinned. Instead it made Orton look weak since he stole Triple H's pin. Don't even get me started at how weak Triple H made Orton look back at No Mercy. The only person that Triple H has decisively put over is Batista after taking three clean pinfalls in thee consecutive PPVs. Sure, Triple H put over Benoit and Cena at Wrestlemania. However, in their return matches Triple H either lost via fluke roll-up or he wasn't the one taking the pinfall.

 

[leby_uk]

to be honest though Undertaker and Triple H are the best in the WWE, Its hard to have new challengers to just have them fall over for after there carears of being known to have beaten the best of the best.
But i have to disagree i think if need be they would help push a new talent Triple H helped kick start Ortons Carear? and Batista? In some ways Undertaker Kick started Kanes carear?
Michaels is constantly loosing these days getting "storyline injuries" and what not.

John Cena meh not sure about him cant really see him being involved in that sort of stuff.

Its mainly people whose ego gets to big for them Brock Lesnar, Goldberg and so on

 

[klunderbunker]

As far as Cena and HHH go, why should they be putting people over? Those two are the top guys in the company right now. Cena may not be the champion, but he's the biggest star there is on Raw right now. HHH is the biggest star on SD plain and simple. The two of them put people over from time to time, just as they should. It makes no sense to have your biggest stars lose to guys beneath them. They're number one for a reason.

As for Michaels, when is he not putting people over? Hardy beat him clean on Raw a few months ago. Batista beat him at ONS. Jericho beat him at the Bash. When's the last time Shawn won a major match? He's one of the ultimate jobbers in the company. Shawn may have used to be one guy that wouldn't put anyone over, but those days are long gone.

Taker wins the matches he's supposed to iwn. He's been out hurt for a good while or on a break or something like that. When he comes back, the fans explode. It wouldn't make sense from a business perspective to have the probably most over guy on the roster lose in a big match when he wrestles in them so rarely. In the time when he wasn't hurt, he was the World champion so obviously he couldn't lose then. There are times when people aren't supposed to put others over becuase it wouldn't make sense at the time.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

The veterans do put people "over" when needed they just can't be losing every match because then they wouldnt be credible enough to put that person over. Each of the wrestlers named have put over certain people and have buried certain people that;s the business. Also they are still all fairly big draws and have a few years left so they should stay at the top...while slowly establishing other stars. Also HHH may "hold" people down and use his "family" to win belts and matches ect...but I believe any wrestler in that postition would. Not only in wrestling but in anything in life. Also HHH is still one of the most over people in the WWE so it would make sence for him to win alot(although I think he could put a few more people over) and atleast HHH is a fairly good wrestler. If it was someone like Snitsky or Knox who was married to Steph and burrying people than it would be different since neither are "stars" or get a fan reaction(unlike HHH who got a reaction before marrying Steph)

 

[tehblogger]

This is too harsh on both HBk and Taker. Granted, Taker Always Wins at Mania, but that doesn't mean he Always Wins the rest of the time. In fact, he doesn't, as has been shown above. Most of his title reigns have been brief. And he allows others to go over him: even if he wins it's rarely a squash. Michaels has done nothing but put people over for ages now. And Cena, despite his long title reign has a grand total of two PPV wins over JBL this year: he's lost out to Orton, got pinned by Orton again at Mania, and again at Backlash, and then lost to JBL at the Bash (albeit in a heavily gimmicked match), as well as to HHH at NoC. So why you'd complain about him, I don't know.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Shawn Michaels: My favorite wrestler but he stills falls over this category. He has a backsatge reputaion of not putting people over.

To sy he's your favourite wrestler, you seem to be unaware of a few facts regarding him. When is he not putting people over? That clean win Hardy got over him a couple of months ago? He was in a feud with Triple H and the only time he beat him was by roll up, I believe it was.

Where is Shawn now? On the injury list and speaking as if his career could be over thanks to Jericho. This feud is great. He had Jericho beat him so badly the referee had to stop the match.

Do you not remember how good he made Kennedy look in their feud? They had some great matches.

Shawn Michaels is working with mid card talent week in and week out. He is not in the main event scene. He's helping eliviate talent up onto that stage. To say he doesn't put talent over is ignorant to what he is today. He's changed a lot from what he was before his injury. You need to realise that.

As for Triple H and Cena, they're the champion scene at the moment. Why should they be 'putting talent over'?

 

[Saiquan]

To sy he's your favourite wrestler, you seem to be unaware of a few facts regarding him. When is he not putting people over? That clean win Hardy got over him a couple of months ago? He was in a feud with Triple H and the only time he beat him was by roll up, I believe it was.

Where is Shawn now? On the injury list and speaking as if his career could be over thanks to Jericho. This feud is great. He had Jericho beat him so badly the referee had to stop the match.

Do you not remember how good he made Kennedy look in their feud? They had some great matches.

Shawn Michaels is working with mid card talent week in and week out. He is not in the main event scene. He's helping eliviate talent up onto that stage. To say he doesn't put talent over is ignorant to what he is today. He's changed a lot from what he was before his injury. You need to realise that.

As for Triple H and Cena, they're the champion scene at the moment. Why should they be 'putting talent over'?

Im sure i know more about shawn then you? I never said he doesn't put people over. The point of the thread is to see if maybe we are to Hard on Paul Levesque. I simply used those guys as examples.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Im sure i know more about shawn then you?

Not sure where this comment came from, but I doubt it.

I never said he doesn't put people over. The point of the thread is to see if maybe we are to Hard on Paul Levesque. I simply used those guys as examples.

Then why use him as an example? Please enlighten me on why you mentioned Shawn at all, if you're not saying he doesn't put people over. You can't exactly go back on what you said. Here:

Shawn Michaels: My favorite wrestler but he stills falls over this category.

Which category does he fall into, if not the 'not putting people over category'?

Furthermore, here

But it also got me to thinking:"Is Hunter the only person who won't put someone over." Then i began looking and here are a few names:

By use of the word only, you're suggesting that the other wrestlers mentioned also fail to put people over. Please, tell me why you feel Shawn doesn't put people over, instead of trying to deny that's what you said in the first place.

 

[jpfizzle]

In my opinion it is the role of the Veteran in proffesional wrestling to put someone over to elevate them to main event or even the next level, whilst some, Mick Foley for example are notoriously good at this, other more active wrestlers, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels and John Cena cannot be seen to loose all the time at risk of loosing there credibility as a stepping stone so to speak for a mid-carder or upper mid-carder to overcome.

Undertaker, Shawn AND John Cena have all done fantastic jobs at putting people over this year without loosing any of there big name appeal... Michaels has made Jerichos heel turn one of the most memorable in recent history, atm people think of Jericho as the man who put HBK's career in jeopardy... how is that not putting someone over??

Undertaker got himsefl banished from the WWE, whilst this was probably to rest some nagging injuries the way he went out in the TLC match made Edge go over STRONG. Yes he had help but it was Edge who pushed him through the tables etc. making Edge the one who drove the final nail into Undertakers coffin, no matter what happens sunday, Undertaker will walk out of the Hell in a Cell with his legend status in-tact and Edge will come out as the man who either toppled or damn near toppled the Phenom...

And speaking of Legends, what about the Legend Killer Randy Orton, Orton got that name from beating people like 'Taker and HBK.

Triple H on the other hand... where to start with Triple H, the guy comes to the ring, delivers most nights, has intensity and is over....yet: HE HAS BEEN DOING THE SAME GIG SINCE 2004!! He lost Ortons momentum for several years by burying him, and when Orton became Champ it was weakened by the game having to loose the title in his third match of the night... when WWE was pushing the younger generation and Kofi Kingston went over Jericho as well as CM PUNK going over Edge and beating him at his own game... HHH WAS STILL CHAMPION! How can he justify it.

 

[Miko]

Triple H: People say he's WAY over, but I cant see it, the only time people really wanted him to win was against Cena (for obvious reasons). Triple H has been bland for years yet he's still at the top.
In fairness to him he does put people over, he made the box office champion Arnold Schwarzenneger look strong.

The thing is, he'll never be considered as legendary as HBK, Undertaker and what John Cena will be and he knows this, if he was to put over even half the people The Undertaker or Shawn Michaels put over he wouldnt have credibilty anymore, the Deadman can two or three losses to Kennedy and only win the last match in the fued and people will still rave about him. That just wont work for HHH.

I think this is because he just isnt in the same class as his peers, WWE has always had class 1,2,3 etc. . entertainers and HHH is in class 1, sadly its class 1B, whereas The Rock, SCSA, HBK, The Undertaker and Cena are all class 1A HHH just doesnt make that league, so let him have his title wins, his burials and his WWE recognition because in the long run everybody knows he just isnt as good as the others.

Also everybody on your list puts people over, as said before HBK puts over so many people yet he's still the heartbreak kid, and Cena has barely had a win since returning from injury.

 

[Dead Kennedy]

Triple H has been on a right decline ever since his return at last year's SummerSlam or whatever it was. He just isn't the same performer he used to be. Less momentum, less ferocity, less of "the H." That he's the WWE Champion right now, with so many others who deserve it more and can actually benefit from it AND benefit the WWE, is a complete joke.

And I love that he won't let other guys go over him. I can tell you, it ain't because of him NOT being married to the boss' daughter that he's been given all advantages and gives little to nothing back to us. A real inspiration to us all is Hunter. I realize wrestling is a cutthroat business and you can't trust anyone, but is that really an excuse to be a pretentious asshole? He hardly even wrestles these days even. I can't wait to see his WWE Championship reign end (preferably to some NEW talent. Khali is not an improvement.) and it can't happen soon enough. I hope he never has another championship reign again, because quite frankly, he's not at that level anymore.

 

[Magicana]

In my opinion it is the role of the Veteran in proffesional wrestling to put someone over to elevate them to main event or even the next level, whilst some, Mick Foley for example are notoriously good at this, other more active wrestlers, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels and John Cena cannot be seen to loose all the time at risk of loosing there credibility as a stepping stone so to speak for a mid-carder or upper mid-carder to overcome.

Undertaker, Shawn AND John Cena have all done fantastic jobs at putting people over this year without loosing any of there big name appeal... Michaels has made Jerichos heel turn one of the most memorable in recent history, atm people think of Jericho as the man who put HBK's career in jeopardy... how is that not putting someone over??

Undertaker got himsefl banished from the WWE, whilst this was probably to rest some nagging injuries the way he went out in the TLC match made Edge go over STRONG. Yes he had help but it was Edge who pushed him through the tables etc. making Edge the one who drove the final nail into Undertakers coffin, no matter what happens sunday, Undertaker will walk out of the Hell in a Cell with his legend status in-tact and Edge will come out as the man who either toppled or damn near toppled the Phenom...

And speaking of Legends, what about the Legend Killer Randy Orton, Orton got that name from beating people like 'Taker and HBK.

Triple H on the other hand... where to start with Triple H, the guy comes to the ring, delivers most nights, has intensity and is over....yet: HE HAS BEEN DOING THE SAME GIG SINCE 2004!! He lost Ortons momentum for several years by burying him, and when Orton became Champ it was weakened by the game having to loose the title in his third match of the night... when WWE was pushing the younger generation and Kofi Kingston went over Jericho as well as CM PUNK going over Edge and beating him at his own game... HHH WAS STILL CHAMPION! How can he justify it.

The problem with that is, who was HHH meant to drop it too? Cena maybe, but they wanted CM Punk to cash in the MITB. So that is the Raw side of it done, and Smackdown needed to keep a champion too. So either Edge or HHH had to drop the title. If they wanted CM Punk as a face, then he had to do it on Edge. If they wanted him heel, they would have done it on HHH. They wanted him face, so Edge dropped the title after getting destroyed by Batista. Hardly ruined his credibility, and Punk ends up with a title.

 

[Mr. Showtime]

Triple H will only put over someone if he likes them. Batista, Cena, Hardy, Orton etc. What about the guy's who have been completely burried by HHH. Kane, Chris Jericho, RVD, Umaga, Carlito, Booker T even Orton at time's, the list goes on and on.

I'll never bash HHH as a wrestler because he's one of the best of all time and He's put on some of my favourite matches, I just can't stand the way the guy politic's.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

It's accepted as common knowledge that HHH doesn't put guys over. With the Hardy loss, HHH was reported to have wanted Hardy to win because HHH wanted his title shot at WM and not at the Rumble. If HHH is ever booked to lose or look weak/threatened by an opponent, he usually beats them soundly the following week. Just look at this weeks Smackdown spoiler. Either Khali will do the same next week, or Khali will get chased off with a sledgehammer and then either way, Khali won't be leaving with the WWE title.

I can't comment on HBK's early career having not watched much of it, as for Cena he was booked as the dominant champ, but it was pretty ridiculous that he rarely ever lost a match in that whole time. As for him putting guys over now.... who's he done that for again? Let's see.... Orton, who he pinned after HHH pedigreed him. JBL after 3 months where Cena beat him at 3 consecutive PPVs, and HHH who doesn't count. The other guys got the wins in tag matches where Cena wasn't the guy getting pinned.

But Taker? He's the veteran that new guys face/attack so that the crowd will take them seriously. Heidenriech and Kennedy are examples of guys who fought through the jobbers and mid card guys and then fueded with Taker. Mankind, Kane, Khali are all guys who appeared out of nowhere and gave Taker a run for his money before he ever beat them.

In Khali's case, he beat Taker two or three times but then when they were going to have the Punjabi Prison match Big Show stepped in instead and the fued just suddenly ended. Now Khali gets his ass whipped by Taker in seconds.

As for the 16-0, i don't think it's something that Taker demanded as part of his contract or anything. I think it's just something that developed over time, in that by the time he'd won 7 or 8 times consecutively they thought, 'Ok, we've tried making Taker champ and its never really felt right, but we want there to be an air of dominance about him somehow, so we'll keep this streak going until he retires.'
Also, he's now the longest serving member of the entire roster without having jumped ship at any point or taking several years off like HBK did.

I will agree that he definitley has a lot of power backsatge, because i can see no earthly reason why Michelle McCool is the Divas champion over Natalya, and i also don't understand how she can get away with trying to teach a student of the Dungeon how to wrestle. I'm not saying that Taker explicitly throws his weight around, but having the Deadman on your side can only be beneficial IMO.

What about Batista? I don't think i've ever seen him put over MVP, or Kennedy, or Kane, or JBL, or Umaga, or HHH even for that matter. He rarely ever put over Edge as well. If those guys did beat him, it was only ever by countout or DQ which isn't the same imo. HBK, Khali, Edge (once or twice) and Undertaker are the only guys i've ever seen him put over cleanly.

I may be wrong, please correct me if i am.

 

[simpsons_fanatic742]

Ya, I'm gonna agree with most of the people here and say that you are off with some of your examples.

First of all, how can you even think that the Undertaker doesn't put people over. Most of his fueds he will lose the majority of the matches and make his opponent look credible and then win the last match. People before me have already gave the list of names that the Undertaker has lost to and made them who they are.

HBK does put people over for sure. Even now with the Jericho fued. He is helping Jericho turn into the mature, heel Jericho and helping give him a new persona.

Cena does his fair share of putting guys over especially since his injury. I mean the only reason JBL is in the main event scene is because he beat Cena at GAB.

HHH does not do this nearly enough. If he loses to Khali then maybe people will cut him some slack, but honestly he won't lose to Khali, unlike Undertaker.